Is Chris Bowers right? Are we all exhausted by the battle over the supplemental bill. Are we worn out? Or are we just discouraged…disgusted…distraught?
How can the biggest issue facing the country finally come up for a vote and the activists have so little to say?
From my perspective, the problem is that there is no correct way to vote. I don’t feel like explaining my thoughts on the ethics or merits again. I, too, am tired. One thing is clear to me…the President will veto the House bill if it passes (and probably the Senate bill, too). Given that, voting for the funding isn’t going to fund a thing. This vote is over whether to express the sense of the Congress that we should pull out. And I base my thinking on that.
What do you base your thinking on?
I’m currently looking for a David Koresh style survivalist compound way, way back up in the woods.
I was thinking more along the lines of the desert, but that’s merely a matter of personal preference.
I’ve been having many fantasies about an underground mountain site myself. I like the thought of several hundred tons of rock between me and them. ;>)
this is what i think….i think america is waiting for someone….republican or democrat i dont think matters….to do SOMETHING about any issue you could think of…..but do it with some VIGOR……manly hard penis vigor…..i feel like im watching really bad porn where the woman is on her knees and the guy is in front of her slapping her face with a tiny limp penis…..totally ineffective.
example….75% of america supported the iraq invasion….no matter what it was based on or how dumb people are blah blah blah……75% supported it….because in the beginning it was a big hard penis action…..support starts to wane as we get our dicks lopped off…..but still most people were still hanging in there with the effort…then finally murtha comes up to the plate and whips out a gigantic hard cock and smacks bush right in the face with it….better than feingold and kucinch and anyone else had done….and suddenly he is the darling of everyone including the progressive left regardless of the fact that he isnt progressive on any issue i can find.
thats what we need…..i dont care what the issue is…we need it presented this way…..america is just too comfortable to be motivated to do or think anything unless something sparks their lizard brain.
I’ve been more or less absent around the blogosphere lately, but I have been trying to keep up on things.
Right now, this is my general impression: When we had a minority in both houses, it felt like the Republicans could ram whatever they wanted down our throats, and there was nothing we could do, and it was frustrating. Now that we have majorities in both houses, it seems like we can’t ram shit down the Republicans throats, and they can block or change everything, and it is frustrating.
That isn’t to say that it hasn’t been any better, because it (marginally) has.
It is just that there is way too much shit that needs fixing, and there is a seeming lack of urgency and bravery emanating from the hill.
On this issue, if I were in Congress, I would base my thinking on what John Murtha says.
that we thought about remodeling will look pretty good if we can’t take the country back.
But more specifically to your question, we are too close to this issue. To the average citizen, having the supplemental bill fail will look like a victory for Bush. They simply will not understand the distinction between a “No”vote to support Bush and a “No” vote that means the bill doesn’t go far enough. The fact that Bush will veto it will be enough to draw a line in the san.
It’s important to pass something now, and then move on. Waxman is right–there are so many issues on the table, it will just pile up.
Mr Boo- it is not a statement of fatigue. It is a statement of disgust, flavored with a sprinkle of growing hatred, and with no moderating heart. My thinking is based of 60+ years of fighting the “good fight” and always staying alert to any possible dirty tricks generated by the pieces of shit that have control of the Whitehouse. Just keep one thing in mind, they eat their young!
By the way, there is a correct way to vote. The goddamned lying fucker in the whitehouse will do anything including vetoing any bill sent up to him, so what’s the problem. Vote to pass, send it on to the senate, vote to pass it there and then send it up to 1600. Let him veto the bill even if an overide isn’t achieved.
The public will not believe that the piece of shit, the one that has been lying to them for 6 + years hasn’t screwed the troops. Remember, this is the heartless bastard that screwed the folks in New Orleans,fucked the vets by cutting the vet budget, didn’t fund NCLB, forced over 40 million CITIZENS to remain without any health care coverage– do I have to go on? I don’t think so.
billjpa@aol.com
PS- tired- you don’t know what tired is yet!
I just had a sad little exchange over at Bower’s site. I described myself as an old asshole, sort of in jest, & of course, the young & virile Mr. Bower’s agreed. I did ask him “If you are not a DLC sellout, what are you?” I didn’t mean to call him a DLC sellout, I just wanted to know how he would describe his support of the war by his support of the bill in question. Anyway, maybe all of us post 55ers should just go away & let the Bowers of the world tell us what to do. I am tired, tired of being marginalized by my own people, people I thought I was defending before they were even thinking of politics or justice or granddaughters (I’ve two now, twins.) Well, sorry I didn’t say it on his blog, but fuck Bowers & I wish him good luck with his life, something he wouldn’t wish for me. What is with these people?
you know…I know Chris Bowers very well. So do a lot of people. And I don’t know anyone that has ever met him that has a bad word to say about him.
I don’t always agree with him. I remember asking him what the hell he was thinking getting behind Jon Tester when it was such a sure-fire losing battle in the primary.
The one thing that anyone that actually knows Chris would never suggest is that he is a sell-out of any kind, let alone a DLC sellout. Of course, Chris’s dragon has never really been the DLC, but the Philadelphia machine, which is a monster of another stripe. And no one has kicked the machine’s ass more than Chris. He is definitely persona non grata in these parts, and he relishes it.
I don’t imagine he responded very well to your question, no matter your intent. But, I assure you, he hears that charge thrown around quite a lot. I get it too. It’s baffling.
When it comes to the supplemental bill, this is a difficult time for all of us. It’s downright painful to see Pelosi roughing up the progressives. And, yet, it is absolutely what she has to do right now. I remind you that this bill, if it passes, will be vetoed. It is not a vote to fund the war, it is a vote to put in non-binding benchmarks, and to express the sense of Congress that we should wind down this war. If this vote passes the onus will be on the President to turn down the funding. But if it fails, the onus will be on Congress to cave in and pass a bill with no benchmarks and no sentiment. And that will get us where?
OK, not to be gratuitously obtuse, but would you explain to me WHY Pelosi has to rough up the progressives? I don’t get it? Is it just politics as usual?
Sure.
It’s kind of hard to explain.
The president has asked for a supplemental spending bill to fund the military. He needs that money by, probably, September 2007, at the latest.
If Congress doesn’t pass a supplemental, the troops will not get paid, our ships will have to go to port, our airplanes will be grounded, etc.
To keep the military going, we’d have to pass another law, not a supplemental exactly, but a bill authorizing the Pentagon to move around previously appropriated funds. In order to pass that bill, we’d have to get through amendments and filibusters, etc. In short, we can’t just pass nothing. And something will pass.
Given that something will pass, the question then becomes, will it just give the President his money with no benchmarks, no reporting requirements, no certification requirements, no waiver requirements? Will we just fund the war as we have been doing?
The current bill says no. It says, that Bush must certify the troops are trained and equipped, or sign a waiver, he must certify that the Iraqis are meeting benchmarks, or sign a waiver.
Does this bill compel the President to end the war? No, it does not. And we can’t get any such bill passed.
But if this bill fails, we will have to start over again and get a bill that will pass.
Now…
What if we pass the bill and Bush won’t sign it? Well, he can always change his mind. He has a bill, he has his funds. If he won’t sign it, he only has himself to fault. And the Dems can make a principled stand and play chicken with the President. But if they don’t give him any bill at all, we have no leg to stand on. And if we give him a bill that he will happily sign…then what have we accomplished?
The progressives (of which I am one) do not want to have to vote for war funding…on principle. But this bill will be vetoed, and the funding will never get there, or it will eventually pass, and have at least the sense of Congress that Bush should wind down the war, along with requirements he must meet to continue it.
OK, thanks. I actually understand the deal now. BTW, the man you know so well, Mr. Bowers, has basically banned me from his site. Fine, I just deleted him from my favorites list. I wonder why he is so thin skinned? Anyway, thanks again, I truly appreciate the explanation. & your patience. You guys won. Good for winning. NOTE: I feel like I’m up on technology, but Bowers was able to put up his intimidating warning when I went to his site today. He apparently knows a lot more about me than I realized. I’m glad I’m gone for that place.
Well, there’s been a big intraparty fight. And, factually, we’re still very unlikely to get out before 2009 anyway. I think the reality of politics – the need to compromise and the impossibility of getting anything perfect or often even really good – is dragging on people too. “Laws and sausages are better if you don’t see them being made.” Finally, to a great exteent this is out of our hands. The compromises that originally set the netroots off were made in response to demands we never hear because they happened behind closed doors. The compromises by progressive lawmakers have made to (apparently) pass the thing are made in response to political requirements we don’t experience. So – big fight, no clear gain, no clear bad guys – I think it’s obvious why people aren’t enthused.
not tired at all. as i told chris on his post at mydd, he obviously hasn’t been reading skippy.
i’ve also posted my thoughts here on booman. among those thoughts: the dems, now in charge, are just as lackluster about trying to change things as the pubs ever were; big money wins out most of the time, ergo, we on the side of truth must fight always; blogtopia and yes, i coined that phrase, has made great strides in recent months; history has shown that change takes a long time, but the pendulum will swing back; democracy is not a spectator sport, we’ve got to keep working vigilantly all the time to keep it working; the suits in charge really don’t care, but that’s no reason to quit.
First they need to investigate, later come Mr. Bush’s “show trials”, then come convictions.
They have choices of whom to prosecute, they even get to choose what for.
How many prosecutions can be launched in the next two years?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer, and I won’t bother to type it again, is here.
http://jonorato42.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/dem-politics/
It’s just plain and simply a tough call, IMHO.
J