Markos Moulitsas is getting a ton of criticism from all over the left blogosphere for his posting on Kathy Sierra. A good sample can be found at skippy’s place and there are a bunch more links at Wampum.
I’ve read his post four times now. I’ve read a LOT of the criticisms of his post. I’ve talked to people about it in real life.
And here is my conclusion. Markos has pissed off so many people, and pissed them off so much, that there is no more benefit of the doubt left for him. I seriously doubt that these reactions would be anywhere near as strong if the dismissive statements had been made by any other blogger on the left.
My inclination was to assume he had no idea that Kathy Sierra experienced significantly more trauma than mere run of the mill death threats. I assumed that he was tired, uninformed, and annoyed with yet another call for blogger ethics. I assumed that he did the equivalent of blogging while drunk. I did not assume that he was picking on her because she was a woman. I did not assume that he was dismissing what really happened to her because it did not appear that he knew what really happened to her. But there are two things that are more important than the possibility that he was tired and his post was unintentionally assholeish.
First, he hasn’t apologized or clarified his position. I know he is busy with his children and his wife, but he is getting a lot of criticism and he surely knows that people (including some of his front-pagers) are very upset about what he wrote. His continued silence will eventually force me to abandon any benefit of the doubt I was willing to grant him.
Second, it’s too late for an apology to change the fact that an increasing number of progressive people actively hate him. It’s gotten so bad that I come in for criticism just for having anything to do with Daily Kos. I can’t even give Markos the benefit of the doubt on a dubious post without people thinking I have some kind of ulterior motive. This hatred has arisen for a host of reasons. I’d say the two biggest reasons are his absolutely shitty administration of his site, and a pattern of dismissiveness towards women’s issues.
There are other factors, too. There is a lot of jealously. There is resentment (some totally legitimate, some not) that Kos has such a leadership role over what is mainly a progressive movement. Why? Well…he’s not particularly progressive on a host of issues, and he is not much of an advocate for progressive causes, excepting those that touch on his business. He’s also a middling talent blogger, and many people feel more deserving of the kind of compensation (revenue) that Kos gets.
But by far the biggest problem is the way he has deputized (or failed to discipline) the bullying behavior of people on his site. Comments like this are a constant drumbeat.
* [new] Please take it to Booman or MLW.
They don’t have rules against 911 tinfoil theories.
by Eternal Hope on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 12:54:14 AM EDT
This creates an ever widening circle of Kos-haters that come to other sites absolutely furious about their treatment at the hands of Markos’s bullies. It poisons the environment here, at My Left Wing, at MyDD, and at other blogs. And many of these people, who have been mistreated, have no sympathy, and no inclination toward granting a benefit of the doubt.
In my opinion, this bullying has weakened Daily Kos and made it a deeply flawed vehicle for progressive aspirations. It’s a big site and it is attractive because it has such a big and important audience. It, therefore, has a certain centrifugal pull. But that needs to change. The problem isn’t Kos’s personal politics (although, in combination with everything else, that is a problem). The problem is the toxicity the place exudes. It isn’t contained…it spills over and out into the broader blogosphere. And this is by design.
The reaction to Kathy Sierra is so white-hot, not because the comments themselves were so over-the-top. Considering Kos’s circumstances, I still am willing to cut him some slack (if that clarification comes soon). The reaction is to the totality of Daily Kos and what Markos has allowed it to become.
I’m personally offended by some of the criticisms I’ve seen of Markos. Some of it I consider to be racist. Some of it I consider to be way too personal. But, I’m beyond wondering why it is so caustic. It’s caustic because Daily Kos has been sick for a very long time. It’s caustic because Daily Kos has gone out of its way to make enemies.
I haven’t seen many signs that things are going to get better. I have occasionally made these points at Daily Kos. They haven’t had any effect. I don’t see how Daily Kos can continue to be the leader of the progressive blogosphere if it doesn’t stop pissing off progressives and making enemies. At some point all the strong voices will be gone…and nothing will be left but the bullies.
Let’s face it. However he may come across in person, online Kos has been a prick too many times for people to give him the benefit of the doubt. Why he’s been a prick isn’t really relevant to me. But if he can’t stop, and if his site doesn’t change than he will lose his community, or at least the progressive members of it, sooner rather than later.
that’s pretty much my take.
Just want to echo what you guys are saying. I am a low ID poster at Daily Kos. I stopped posting there regularly recently because of the attitude that runs rampant at the place.
Markos has said some really stupid things. Often, he isn’t called on it. One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard was his stance on ballot propositions. It’s just really dumb.
There is too much of an amen section there for my liking. You can spend too much time gazing at one’s navel, like when DKos goes into meta mode, but the tone there is often Markos right or wrong.
The Imus thing and Markos’ comments can’t be divorced in my mind. I am not referring to Imus himself, but the media members who rushed out to defend him, not understanding how hurtful Imus’ statements were to different people who weren’t rich successful white males.
Markos doesn’t get that women have to deal with alot of crap simply because of their gender, and not because of what they said. Considering the pie war fights of 2005, he has chosen not to try.
It’s not his job to be the messiah for the blogosphere. Those who try to put him there make a big mistake. We are all full of crap in our own ways. Markos can’t be so untouchable though that he isn’t called on the carpet for it.
Exactly.
two thoughts:
firstly, thx 4 the link, booman.
but secondly, the imus thing is more closely related in this instance than one might think.
markos, like imus, has run out of slack. mrs. skippy asked me if imus should have been fired, and i said, “yes, long ago.”
he wasn’t, but the crap just kept building up and up, until no longer could it be ignored.
same w/markos. in this specific instance he might have only been mis=speaking, or tired, or thoughtless or careless, but combine this instance with every other in which he said things hurtful and dismissive of the very people he has cajoled for support, and it’s the proverbial straw that broke the proverbial camel’s proverbial back.
by the way, after telling mrs. skippy my opinion about imus, the conversation segued into what markos did. mrs. skippy follows my blogging carefully (she’s actually afraid that the kathy sierra thing could happen to me and my career, so i am careful to assuage her fears).
she couldn’t believe markos would pull such a bone-headed stunt.
Part of the reason there’s little benefit of the doubt it because Kos has a history of showing contempt for the issues and concerns of women. There was the pie as and the dismissal of those issues as not “the important shit.” There was the “where’s a burka when you need one?” comment, or something close to that.
Moreover, Kos has nurtured a “whatever it takes to win” attitude among progressives that leads to shunting certain constituencies (women, gays, etc.) aside because their issues aren’t “majority issues,” etc.
If it keeps up, his site will degenerate into little more than a cult of personality built around him.
moreover, kos has nurtured a “whatever it takes to win” attitude among progressives that leads to shunting certain constituencies (women, gays, etc.) aside because their issues aren’t “majority issues,” etc.
as i said on my blog (to which booman so graciously linked):
Strange thing when you take into account that women and minorities are the core of those who vote fro Democrats.
At some point all the strong voices will be gone…and nothing will be left but the bullies.
that is always a danger with closed registration comment systems, but it is far worse at the Orange echo chamber than anywhere else.
excellent analysis of the situation
I love it when the kos enemies list grows.
Kathy actually has some good ideas and those ideas challenge the current prescribed American business paradigms. I would think that is why they are attacking her.
http://www.savethemales.ca/
This guy has a take no only on Imus but also the feminist movement in general.
We have a oxy-moron here in the PC correct world of treating women as equals. We chide people for making “sexist” remarks yet the entire business world looks upon women as a thing to market stuff to.
Look through any women’s magazine. “The sexy strappy new sandals that accentuate shapely legs”. Ya ,ok, we are totally egalitarian here.
It’s not about what we want, feel or how we would like to mold our society. It’s about what the Illuminati has planned for us and it ain’t pretty.
Let’s be fair. It’s not just women that get marketed to. Men, children, blacks, Hispanics, even gays (remember an uproar a while back about a cigarette that was being positioned as “marketed to gays”?) are targets of barrages of advertising. I will grant you, though, that the barrage of marketing to women is primarily based on positioning them as being attractive to men (and, much less so, to themselves, i.e. lifting their own self image).
That’s not going to stop until we can break the hold of consumerism and advertising-driven economics on our society. And that is not going to be easy. As we see with Kathy Sierra, the people with the money and a lot to lose don’t take lightly to the prospect that they could lose it.
Great point. Riane Eisler, the author of The Real Wealth of Nations has a diary here on the recommended list right now.
Everybody listens to me.
That’s why the world is so screwed up…it’s run by white males ages 18-49….
Yes, being in the 50+ demographic puts me in the useless cannon fodder demographic! That being the case I shall devote myself to the education of the younger demographics on the latest Satanic marketing techniques. I’d like to be the American version of Ghandi but the Illuminati pre-empts me attempts.
After being inundated with a Duke & Imus week I’m more inclined to ask whether we’re seeing a bit of transference here. People have been on a slow boil over the constant barrage of hateful words, mischaracterizations, slander, lies, ineptitude, on and on (and that’s just from Bush)!
Parallel is the reaction of first astonishment then anger that MSM, this Country’s leaders etc seem to turn a blind eye to it all, not ever calling foul and eventually not even recognizing hate or lies for what they are.
Kos is no white knight, nor should he be. He has had a role in encouraging a grassroots effort to step up to do the heavy lifting of ferreting out the truth that MSM has left off its radar screen.
We all want Kos to reflect who we want to be, which is to say, the very antithisis of the gatekeepers who are dismantling this country.
In a week where Imus spewed just for sport, words that many had to have explained to them were indeed hateful; a week where a prosecutor was unmasked to the world to show how he had abused his power to wrongly accuse 3 young men at Duke and in a week where our own DoJ has been shredded before our eyes, we are drifting in shame and perhaps look to Kos to lift us back above the stupidity. We all have very little tolerance these days for people who have a moment where they, ‘don’t get it’. Kathy deserved Kos’ getting it and subsequent support. She still does ’cause isn’t that what grassroots is all about?
” … the very antith(e)sis of the gatekeepers who are dismantling this country. “
Instead he has positioned himself – deliberately – as just another of those ‘gatekeepers’.
That is the function of Kos’s bullies – to bounce those deemed “incorrect” out onto the sidewalk.
Bravo to Booman for yet another thoughtful, articulate expression of the situation – wish I had your talents, Boo.
We all want Kos to reflect who we want to be, which is to say, the very antithisis of the gatekeepers who are dismantling this country.
This is not about Kos failing to live up to whatever. This is about Kos acting in a way that condones online sexual harrassment. Kos’ post will have practical negative consequences for women. Curiously enough, we don’t like it and neither do the gentlemen of the online world.
Believe me, who speaks out and who keeps silent on this will be remembered for a very long time. I have not been so angry since my senators voted for Clarence Thomas.
What would George S Patton do?
In misery and mortification, he went out and apologized, unit by unit, to all of soldiers who relied on him for leadership after a publicized incident of slapping a soldier who suffered from PTSD (though they did not call it that in WWII.)
Apologizing to people you have hurt sucks; the more you have hurt them, the more it sucks and the more a leader will be willing to do it.
Though it must also be pointed out that Patton did not apologize until it was made clear that if he did not do so, he would be relieved of command at the very least, and that there was a sizable percentage of flag officers who wanted him hauled up before a court-martial board and broken. In any event his career would have ended in total disgrace. Faced with those options, he apologized.
So it’s not entirely to his credit that he did apologize, although he DID “do it up right” when he did, and certainly it’s inarguable that he went on to much greater things afterward.
Except that Kos has consistently denied being a leader and rejected any responsibility to and for anyone.
It’s a convenient kind of compartmentalization, for a guy who has an entire online community bearing his name, as well as an annual convention, and whose working to turn that into greater political influence. Whenever he wants, he can morph into “just a guy with a blog,” rather than a new media mogul and political power.
What happened to Imus can happen to Kos. Nobody can fire Kos. But he can fire himself with consistent behavior like this, until the only people left around him are people like him. And until they day he runs afoul of them too.
i hate to keep piggy backing on your great comments, terrance, but you keep touching the same points i do.
does it feel as good for you as it does for me?
anywho, as to “firing” kos, feminazi made a great suggestion on echidne’s blog: she has written to one of kos’s sponsors asking why they support misogyny on line. she and i suggest everyone else does likewise.
On a diary posted here:
Blogging While Female
I’ve already written to most of the advertisers.
Patton was a great general–the best in the American army according to the supreme Allied commander, General Eisenhower.
It was Eisenhower who set aside his personal friendship with Patton, and the high esteem in which Ike held Patton’s generalship, and forced Patton to apologize.
In so doing, Eisenhower saved not only Patton’s career, but also kept one of his best generals. That’s what friends are for: they check you when you’ve gone over the line.
Who is Kos’ friend? Who will tell him that he has gone too far?
As far as I can tell, the best advice Kos has gotten has been from Booman, who seems to have genuine affection for Kos. But Kos doesn’t listen to Booman; he listens, if you can call it that, to the sycophants he’s gathered around him (I won’t name any names here as not to make this comment uglier than it already must be).
Hm, a marginally competent leader who ignores first-class advice from people who know what they’re doing, shuts out all dissenters and runs them away from him, and only listens to asskissers who tell him what he wants to hear….
Gosh, Kos reminds me of somebody but I can’t really say who.
gosh, kos reminds me of somebody but i can’t really say who
is the middle initial “w”?
By George, I think you’ve got it.
l agree with much of what you say, but l do not think it is accidental that it’s happened. the bullying and narrowing of focus on the site has not been a random occurrence, regardless of how it started, it has been allowed to continue and grow, even nurtured in many ways. so be it, as has been said, it’s his site, he can do what he pleases…and what he pleases is, fairly obviously, to promote and elevate kos within the existing political system(s) for personal gain.
imo, the site’s been in decline for quite sometime now, especially within the ranks of progressives, [and no, l do not consider kos one] and it is not surprising, in the least, that this latest kerfuffle would be about the gender issues that are so obviously apparent.
there’s an old adage: you reap what you sow.
apparently, the harvest is worth it to him.
my 2¢
I would have never considered myself a Kos-hater..I try not to think of him at all until something like this comes up…with seeming regularity with Markos…however he continues to drip with arrogance and purposeful cluelessness about most issues, silly things you know like women’s equality, silly gay people for wanting equal rights now and not in some future neverland when it’s expedient for Kos to champion them(which he’ll never do I’m sure) just so many silly progressive issues he simply doesn’t give a shit about…if he didn’t get ‘What Women Want’ after the whole Pie Wars debacle than it’s pretty obvious that he will never care enough to even begin to understand issues especially relating to women. His incredibly callous posting concerning Kathy Sierra only bears out his complete lack empathy or understanding of a very serious problem that faces many mostly women.
Kos is out for himself to play the mighty Kingmaker of the blogsphere and everyone who gets in his way will be ignored, denigrated or worse..it’s all about him period.
What Kos should have said:
What Kos should say:
What I think Kos will say:
Having walked this globe for a number of years, it saddens me greatly to see the same old conduct and attitude changes cycling again in the so-called liberal community. The liberal blogs mirror the Democrats in the way that they quickly resume fighting amongst themselves as soon as the latest right wing boogeyman appears to be fading in importance from the arena of public concern.
The right wing crowd holds to their sense of “them verses us” unity at all times, regardless of internal disagreements. Liberals on the other hand likewise experience disagreements, but they argue to separation and full divorce. That’s why Democrats and liberals are always struggling to return to power and control. The crux of their battle is not defeating the right wing republicans, but healing old wounds so that they can become united again.
The cracks and splits are surfacing again. Prior to the last election, public divisions occurred between the Labor Unions. Soon after the election, divisions appeared within the Democratic Party, between the DLC and the DNC. Now the divisions are fast appearing between liberal blogs.
Regardless of the issue, it behooves us to remember that despite a Democratic victory in the House of Representatives, the enemy has not “left the building”. If we are to stabilize the future of this country we must preserve our UNITY as the main weapon of our campaign. Without it we cannot achieve our vision of America.
And how do we respond when one of “us” starts to sound disturbingly like one of “them”?
And what is Kos’ “vision for America”? Right now it seems to be one that involves elected anti-gay and anti-choice Democrats if that’s what it takes to win. And people like me are suppose to believe that it will be good for us too, to have a more conservative Democratic part in power.
Unity is one word that really makes my skin crawl these days. As far as I can tell, if you’re not one of the “haves”, it means smiling while you’re oppressed by those with Ds in front of their names, because that is, of course, so much more rewarding than being oppressed by the Rs.
into an unrecognizable kindergarten for bullies is indisputable, but it’s they why I don’t get.
His hits are dropping, so he must somehow be aware that the authoritarian model is a failure. The quality of the diaries now rivals Freerepublic as does the depth of the debate.
What in the world is he thinking? I’m sure he has been told, does he want it to fail?
First, misogyny is both rampant and (mostly) unchallenged both online and in the so-called “real world”. American society often devalues women, and the blogs–which are often male-dominated–are no exception. Misogyny is not confined to one social class nor ethnic group, but cuts across the boundaries of society. You might say that demeaning women is one of the unifying principles of American society.
Second, there are women who are misogynistic and accept the worst stereotypes of their own gender as true. I have a female employee who has told me that she didn’t want to transfer into another job because all of her co-workers would be women, and “women are impossible to work with because they’re so gossipy and backstabbing.” That doesn’t make misogyny any more acceptable, but it does tell us that we have a formidable task in changing a society where devaluing and demeaning women’s intelligence and character is so commonplace that many people–both men and women–don’t even question it.
Third, this is the first I’d heard that Kos called Kathy Sierra a lying “crying blogger”, but the remark does not surprise me in the least. Markos Moulitsas long ago proved in his response to the objections over the “pie fight” ad on his blog that he is a misogynist who constantly demeans and devalues women. Quite simply put, the man is an asshole and an embarrassment to the male gender.
Fourth, we are all guilty, at one time or another, of prejudice. I’ve had people assume a lot of things about me because I’m a heterosexual, middle-aged white man, only some of which is true, but I’ve also been guilty of assuming things about other people based on gender, ethnicity, or race. The key to fighting prejudice is not to deny that you have it, but to seek it out in yourself and challenge it, and to have the strength to accept when other people challenge it in you.
Unfortunately, if you are asking Markos Moulitsas to engage in soul-searching and self-reflection, you are asking the wrong person. The man has the intellectual depth of a wading pool, and long ago showed that his guiding principle in life is accumulating money, power, and influence (and yes, that’s a bad thing if it’s your sole motivation in life).
Kathy Sierra DID receive hateful comments and credible threats on her life. The best retort to Kos’ insulting, demeaning dismissal of the seriousness of the threats against Kathy Sierra was this one:
Thank you, Drew, whoever you are. I can’t improve on that reply, so I won’t even try.
Ok, that was more than a FEW words. Sorry about that, but I had a lot on my mind on this subject.
Question for Mr. Markos Moulitsas: His wife has a blog, which he sponsors. If Mrs. Moulitsas was subjected to the threats directed at Kathy Sierra, would Kos breezily tell her to grow a thicker skin?
Isn’t that bullies and their enablers always tell victims–“grow a thicker skin”? “Toughen up”?
…absolutely spot-on criticism of Kos on this one. On a scale of 1 to 10, your commentary goes to “11”.
…I have only this to say:
Kos, an unreformed Reagan Republican, did not leave the Republican Party–it left him, by moving so far to the Right that he found himself compelled to change party affiliation (from Republican to Democrat) without changing any of his beliefs.
What has happened at DailyKos is partly by design, and partly by accident. As Booman has pointed out, some of the toxicity of DailyKos emits from Kos’ own character and mismanagement.
However, Kos long deliberately embarked on a crusade to purge the Democratic Party of its weaker elements, or at least to bully them under control: the Usual Suspects (feminists, dirty hippies, tree-huggers, peaceniks, civil libertarians, et al). Like all holy crusades, this one has quite got out of hand, and Kos couldn’t bring it back under control if he wanted to. The crusade now threatens to drive away advertisers from DailyKos, and once the place acquires a well-deserved reputation as a vehicle for regressivism in the Democratic Party, that reputation will not be easily shaken.
The “crusaders” that Kos has set loose, having tasted blood, aren’t going to be put back into their fetters at the mere snap of Kos’ fingers. Kos has ended up with the worst of all possible worlds: an uncontrollable mob who no longer do his bidding on the one hand, and a bunch of very angry opponents who will now lift not one little finger to help him nor his blog.
Really, I think Booman’s analysis is spot-on in every respect, except for his evaluation of Kos as a blogger of “middling” talent. Such an estimate is far too generous.
the Usual Suspects (feminists, dirty hippies, tree-huggers, peaceniks, civil libertarians, et al).
There’s plenty of the above writing at Kos’ place. Take what’s useful and leave the rest behind. Just like every other blog you visit.
This is a tempest in a teapot. Hate Markos if you will, but don’t denegrate those who post – like booman, richard cranium, and the rest – with a broad brush. They get their message across because of the large audience.
Ugh. This whole argument makes me frustrated.
It’s not DailyUs, it’s DailyKos.
Kos sets the tone for the blog.
Are you seriously saying that Kos tells the victim of credible rape and murder threats to toughen up, without even bothering to acquire the basic facts of the case, then exits stage left without further explanation or apology…and it’s a “tempest in a teapot”.
I think it’s symptomatic of a larger problem in the blogosphere in particular and society in general. Far too many men (and quite a few women, judging from the comments I’ve read thus far at DailyKos) hold the attitude that victims of bullies should just suck it up and grow a thicker skin.
Actually, my words–feminists, dirty hippies, tree-huggers, peaceniks, civil libertarians, et al–were words that Kos has used, at one time or another, to describe people on HIS blog. Yes, he actually called people “dirty hippies”, “sanctimonious women’s studies group” members, “peaceniks” who want to “visualize world peace”, etcetera, all in a condescending, sneering tone. Many of those people had their feet in the streets, working for the environment, for peace, for social justice, long before Kos was born.
If you have a problem with those words, take it over to DailyKos. Kos owns those words, just as he owns DailyKos: all by himself.
your frustration is misplaced, you should be outraged…perhaps you’re not quite as cynical as you would like to believe, eh?
this is not the first occurrence, nor is it likely to be the last, of the misogynistic attitudes coming to the fore at dKos…and l would challenge you to point to a post where kos has disowned or discouraged the attitude represented by these postings….his latest screed pretty well confirms, and conforms to, every thing that preceded it.
l have been well counseled in my life, by people much wiser than l, to be very careful about whom l choose to align myself with. that thought process seems to be lacking in the dKos faithful, as has been, is being. demonstrated by those who have been running support kos in this instance.
you pays your money, and makes your choice
The good writers are still there despite the best efforts of management to discourage their viewpoints and the large audience will eventually migrate somewhere more worthy of their attention when dKos finally self-destructs. Kos shouldn’t get a pass on misogyny just because he fooled people long enough to get the large audience in the first place.
I’ve had a lot of experience with Daily Kos, and after all of it Markos reminds me of my kindergarten class where one day all the kids got a chance to play teacher. He was the star that day because all the kids liked him and maybe he was even teacher’s pet so he went home with the sense that he was super special and important.
But what learning was really available to Markos on that day when he got to play teacher? He was given an opportunity to test his own willingness to be a member of the learning community. But that’s not what he noticed. He noticed feeling like a super special, clever, important, and powerful person with a rich daddy named Capitalism.
I’ve been really saddened by what’s happened at DKos over the years, cause when I was the most down cast, felt most alone, most despairing, and most terrified, I discovered Dkos, and found a whole nest of folks I could finally agree with… It was a tremendous morale boost, when I really needed one, to discover Billmon, and MyDD, and Darksyde, and so many others over the years. But the style of intimidation that is practised over there, the cliquish heathering, the narrowmindedness, and the arrogance that has been growing has essentially driven me away, except for in one area that he essentially (unless I’m mistaken) pioneered; namely the nationalised funding of congressional races. As a Californian in an extremely liberal part of Los Angeles, my donation dollars have been pretty useless in my own state, but being able to, through Dkos, participate in local elections in Illinois, Northern CA, Connecticut, etc… has given me the opportunity to feel useful, in a minor way. I’m still going to use Dkos for that kind of stuff, because I think he, or at least his site, is still effective there. But I get no warm fuzzies anymore when I go there, and I find that sad, cause, you know, I used to.
How much more effort does it take to extend the hand of kindness than a slap of ridicule? I have a sneaky feeling that HST’s 1000 pound shithammer is about to fall again. Too bad – he could have been a contender. (Apologies to Brando)
I just posted some heated comments in a post above this, and then scrolled down and read what you said.
WOW! I’m not even going to read the responses before I make my own response (gasp!). Thank you BooMan. You nailed it.
But, if you were to become the next DKos, what would you do different? How would you handle the diary police, the conspirators, the feminists, the leftwing wackos? How would you attract the politicos, and still be independent?
I am not forgiving Kos, I am trying to see how we can create a space that is both highly active and not full of bs.
hope for the Kos community, though not for Markos himself.
I have been at Kos since pre-scoop days and have watched its evolution. Like so many here I left after the pie wars when it was amply evident that misogyny was encouraged and abetted by the establishment, Markos being the most prominent. Wilfull ignorance is the best description I can give it.
But I think things are different this time around. Firstly, during the pie wars my impression was strongly that the majority of the site membership cheered Kos on. I certainly don’t think that’s the case this time at all; in fact from my participation on threads about Kathy Sierra and Kos’s comments, I would say the majority of the active community disapprove of what Kos said and think at best he was stupid and should apologise.
Secondly, during the pie fights, despite the comments from some very admirable men, it was definitely a bitter gender divide; women being jeered at by men, in a nutshell.
This time, there are many very strong men, and well-respected ones proactively criticising Kos, and supporting their female counterparts as they describe personal experiences and offer similar critique.
So in sum if Kos doesn’t apologise his position may be irredeemable, but I actually have hope that this controversey has created a watershed moment on Kos that will see the majority supporting “women’s issues” and feminism, consciousness raising etc. Time will tell.
I do know I have been far more involved with DailyKos over the last week or so than I have been in sometime, and that far and away my interactions with the everyday community there on topics of feminism, domestic violence and Kathy Sierra have been constructive ones.
Booman, excellent post, and I largely agree.
I am amazed at over the top reaction here to Kos’s post.
I really think some of you are reading stuff into his
words that aren’t there. He has nothing to apologize for.
On the contrary, some here should apologize to him for
accusing him unjustly. Booman, I always liked your blog,
but man, I gotta tell you, if this is the direction you are goin,I’m out. Bye, and good luck!
I agree some of it is over-the-top. If you want to know why, read this post that you just commented in.
do so.
your posts, so far, have amounted to nothing more than casting aspersions at people who have expressed an opinion that you do not agree with.
but forth a viable alternative viewpoint and show us where we’re mistaken if you can.
otherwise, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
sleep well zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
…put forth….