One of the worst kept secrets of the blogosphere is that bloggers communicate with each other privately and hash out narratives, swap good stories, argue about strategy, etc. Disagreements can sometimes get a little heated, especially on emotional issues like supplemental war funding or impeachment.
One topic that is controversial is the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. A simple poll of the Daily Kos audience will show that Clinton is much less popular among the denizens of the blogosphere than she is among the Democratic Party as a whole. This isn’t surprising. The blogosphere has been railing against the occupation of Iraq since 2002. And for most of that time Sen. Clinton and her advisers and media team have been worse than unhelpful. They have actively disparaged our efforts and taken every opportunity to insult us.
The blogosphere was instrumental in getting Howard Dean assigned as head of the Democratic National Committee. And Dean embraced a 50-state strategy to rebuild the Democratic Party on the local and state level and to compete everywhere. This strategy has been vigorously opposed by Team Hillary. The best (or worst) example was told by scottforamerica back in January 2007.
“I hope you will support the 50-state strategy,” I told him, expecting the shrug off or a “nice to meet you too,” but that isn’t what Begala had in mind.
“That depends what you mean by 50 state strategy he said.” I responded by telling him that I meant the plan for Democrats to compete everywhere and for every office in the country. That I don’t support he said, “we should start with principles and values.” “Sure, we should compete everywhere” he muttered, “but that’s not the right strategy.” He continued that after working for over 30 campaigns this cycle, not a single one of those campaigns was helped by the 50-state strategy. He challenged me to name examples where the 50-state strategy helped us win in 2006. I proceeded to cite wins in Kentucky and Indiana, along with progress in Nebraska and Kansas as evidence of the plan’s short term success.
“Look,” he said, “When we started there were only about 15 competitive races, but Rahm made the field over 35 by the end and that had nothing to do with the 50-state strategy.” I told him we never would have had so many competitive districts if not for the DNC investing staffers and resources into those states early on and expanding the playing field. “So you have people out there, what are they doing there though?” he questioned. “I told him they were building a long term infrastructure for the Democratic Party, and we had people all over America knocking on doors and spreading the Democratic message. “So what do they say when they knock on the doors then?” he asked me. I told him they had a succinct 6 point plan for a “new direction” that they were discussing, a cohesive message that we haven’t had in the past. “Anyway,” Begala continued… “I don’t need some a**hole from Vermont telling me what to do.”
The problem is that the 50-state strategy isn’t just one person from Vermont. It’s an integral part of what the blogosphere is and does. There has been an explosion of local and state blogs dedicated to taking the fight to the Republicans. And it’s an enormously valuable tool for the Democratic Party. When Paul Begala calls Dean an a-hole, he is really calling all of us a-holes. And he certainly doesn’t want any of us telling him what to do.
Carville is no different than Begala when it comes to hostility to the netroots. And the sense I get from this is that a Hillary Clinton presidency will quickly remove Dean from the DNC, abandon the 50-state strategy, and revert to the top-down hierarchy of the past. This should give everyone in the blogosphere cause for concern.
But, since the midterm elections, criticism of Sen. Clinton has become somewhat muted. Part of this is that she has slowly moved in our direction on the war. Part of it is that we are now in the majority. But the biggest part of it is concern that we’ll weaken a candidate that currently leads in the polls. This is a mistake.
Here’s why:
1) Clinton has worked very hard to shed her image as a feminist/far left/liberal. In doing so she has, of necessity, distanced herself from progressives. Getting booed at Take Back America two years in a row is not a misstep, it’s part of an overall strategy to embrace the netroots but, at the same time, get headlines that distance her from the netroots (crazy left).
2) Some of her positions were strictly tactical, some strategic. But some are hard to forgive. And all of it has created a tremendous amount of ambiguity about where she really stands, and how she would govern.
Taking these two things together:
1) Taking flak from the likes of Daily Kos or Open Left does not hurt Clinton in the general election. It helps her beat back threadbare arguments that she is a radical or some kind of fringe leftist. She actually needs us to beat her with a stick from time to time.
2) Because her positions are finely tuned to correct for years of Republican abuse and distortion, the best way to figure out where she really stands is to see who she has advising her.
This is why I conclude that she will abandon Dean and the 50-state strategy and go back to a top down hierarchy. She’ll govern much as her husband did, which was effective but also disastrous for the lower levels of the party.
In my opinion, if she wins, we lose. Yes, it will be much better than life under President Thompson. But I don’t think we’ll be embraced or that we’ll continue to have allies for party building on the state and local level.
One last point. I don’t advocate ‘nuking’ Hillary. I don’t think anyone should use unfair or misleading attacks, and I think people should vigorously defend her when she is unfairly attacked.
But I do think that the netroots, the grassroots, and the activist left all have an institutional interest in her not being the nominee.
And then there is policy. Will Hillary revert to Democratic Leadership Council policies (both foreign and domestic)? What assurances do we have that she won’t?
Would really love to know what we can do. There are some nasty anti-Hillary designs up at Cafe Press, that even had us feeling a bit sorry for her. But between that and the cynical resignation (to Hillary as the nominee) I see among some progressives, I really don’t know what we’re supposed to do.
i don’t want her hand on any of the levers of unfettered and unconstitutional power that have been put in place by the bush administration… let me be clear, i don’t want the hand of ANY president to have access to those levers… if i am troubled by the prospect of having hillary’s hand on that tiller, just imagine a thompson or a giuliani… contemplating THOSE scary people at the helm is guaranteed insomnia…
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One year ago this analysis published in TNR – The Grudge
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
That link was subscription only. This one opens for me.
Of course, you are entirely correct, BooMan.
But I think there is one mistake everyone seems to be making. With the early kickoff to the Presidential Campaign, there will be a chosen candidate sooner, maybe even before the first primary, if not already.
Clinton has continuously led in most polls. The money battle comes down to Clinton-Obama (these days, that’s what matters). Which one makes a faux pas first maybe the final arbiter.
If we don’t support ALL the Democratic Candidates prior to the primaries, we give ammunition to the republicans.
If you prefer one candidate to the other, you can raise your voice in support, without coming down on any others.
I understand your main point, as to whether one candidate or another benefits the “progressive blogosphere”, but any of our Dems elected is a benefit to us. There is no downside. Progressives will continue to promote their agendas, but having a Democratic President, will give a much shorter path to their goals.
There’s been more than enough policy statements by all the candidates to have been able to make our choices. Most people seem to be waiting to find out what what the other guy thinks, before they make up their mind. I suppose that is human nature.
While I would vote for Clinton before I voted for any Republican (actually I would vote for this Mickey Mouse bobblehead on my desk before I voted for any Republican), I would do so uneasily. Booman says he’s worried that Hilary would start learning back toward her DNC tendencies. I am not convinced she ever left them.
Personally, I would like to see Edwards get the nomination (assuming that Gore doesn’t throw his hat in). I know he’s been pegged as the candidate the status quo loves to hate, and is perceived as being the Dean of 2004, but I would hope we netrooters could transfer some of our blogospheric activity into real-world gains for Edwards. (Or Obama, if you will. Edwards just happens to be my choice.)
you have a Mickey Mouse bobblehead on your desk?
I’d be more impressed with a Mighty Mouse bobblehead.
It’s really a Brain figure from Pinky and the Brain, but that seemed like it would take too long to describe adequately.
I’ll have to see if there is such a thing as a Mighty Mouse bobblehead. Every so often I will come to the dinner table singing “Here I come to save the day!” in a Dudley Do-Right baritone, which puzzles my granddaughter (who’s never seen Mighty Mouse) and amuses my daughter (who has).
2009 President Clinton and good Democratic majorities.
2010 Mid-term elections, return to Republican congressional majorities with President Clinton listening to her heart and tilting ever more towards the right.
2012 Republican President and Republican congress, while the two President Clintons go into comfortable retirement leaving everyone holding the bag.
And we can start all over again. No one should have any confidence in such flimsy predictions.
I think I have made it clear that I strongly oppose a Hilary presidency, for just about every reason there is. She would cement the dynastic tendencies of American politics, undo much of the decentralization of Democratic politics, does not appear to come from a strong philosophical/ ethical foundations, I don’t think she can provide the kind of foreign leadership that I think we need, I think that she would have the hardest time winning of our top three candidates, and if she does win it will be with a divided electoral map similar to 2000 or 2004.
Go here (Hillary and the Netroots INDEED!!!) for a…contrary view if you so desire.
Later…
AG
AG: Are saying that only Hillary can prevent the downfall of America and speculation about her future behavior is foolhardy?
damn, left out a word: “Are YOU saying….”
N.
I am saying that kneejerk Hillary hating is stupid.
And VERY common on the left-ish blogs.,
AG
I don’t hate Hillary, I just don’t think she’s ever going to be my first choice for president. There was a time when I was very enthusiastic about her, but that day is long gone.
But it would be fine with me if she continued to serve the country as the Senator from New York for quite some time. She’s not on the same level as someone like Joe Lieberman, imo, though in keeping with BooMan’s accurate observation, she has surrounded herself with people every bit as loathesome and who just can’t wait to get back to the White House. I don’t know what to make of that, I’m very conflicted about it, and feel it would be a gross oversimplification to sweep all that under the carpet and call it hate.
Are any of the frontrunning campaigns but Edwards’ really blog-friendly at all?
I think Stewart said it all when he included Paul Begala with Tucker Carlson as someone who was “hurting America,” and James Carville is an outright backstabber who should be run out of this party on a rail. They’re clearly actively opposed to us on a fundamental, philosophical level. But I wouldn’t assume that the people who haven’t made it known that they’re our enemies are our friends.
Are the highly corporate, hawkish establishment types running with all these campaigns really going to be sympathetic to our pov should their candidates come into power? They come around, hats in hand, asking for cash, but where do they make a point of dealing with the issues that are important to us? And it doesn’t take a genius to figure out which issues those are, just decent reading comprehension. Because, hello, don’t we all spend all frakkin’ day telling people what we believe in?
The people in Congress and elected office who do support us don’t seem to be running. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t support them, or that their help won’t gain us anything should even HRC take up residence in the Oval Office. After all, though it’s a depressing example, President Clinton couldn’t get universal healthcare passed through a Democratic Congress. The Democrats tend not to operate as a monolith like the Republicans do, and I suggest we just plan on leveraging that no matter what the outcome of the presidential election.
There are electeds who made it in with blogosphere help, gods willing, we’ll be able to say that about even more people come 2008. I’m for working with what we have, which is that we’ve come a long way from being voices in the wilderness five years ago and there are efforts we can make around the margins that we’re uniquely well suited to leverage.
So, take heart. If we’ve withstood Bush, we can withstand the perfidy of Carvile and Begala. Why? Because we’re tougher than they are and we’ve proved we can do something with nothing. They’re the kind of pampered prats who can do nothing with everything.
We just need to refuse to give up.
People are “great” for as many reasons as there are opinions of what “great” means. I like to think of myself as a service to others oriented soul. Animals like me, people don’t understand me.
I have seen enough of Hillary to know she is just not very high on the God like pyramid of wonderful and loving souls. One has to make deals, sacrifices to “get somewhere” in this America today. There is an absence of heart in Hillary that should be just as evident as a cheap infomercial on TV.
The industry of politics says she might be a front-runner, one who CAN win against the likes of Romney but out of the entire bunch, and there are many this time I have to go with Ron Paul. Radical as it may seem he appears to be the only least likely to be owned fully by the corporate interests.
Ron Paul has the most conservative voting record in Congress.
I haven’t looked into his record, but when I saw him on the Daily Show, I pretty quickly realized that he espouses the sort of government that tells people “you’re on your own”.
At least Hillary feels compelled to pay lip service to the notion that the government has a role in caring for the “least of these”.
Ron Paul is a Libertarian from Texas – The TEXAS Republican Party wasn’t “conservative” enough for him.
In general, the Libertarians here want government to secure the borders, ensure cheap labor, enforce contract obligations against the little people, and protect the strong from the weak.
And if you’re not rich enough to look after yourself no matter what, you’re scrod.
Texas is at the bottom in almost all “standard of living” measures, the new state motto is “thank god for Mississippi,” and the libertarians bitch that we spend too much on education and health care for the poor.
If you think bushco is in the corporate pockets, just WAIT until you see paul in office.
“If you think bushco is in the corporate pockets, just WAIT until you see paul in office.”
I am still too much of a Democrat to be a Paul supporter, however I do respect the guy. This statement of yours, at least, is utterly groundless. Paul is very conservative, in the old-fashioned sense of the world, and you need to know know that there is such a thing as an anti-corporatist conservative — although they are rare today in American government. The record would seem to corroborate that Paul is one of them. For example, he has consistently opposed agricultural subsidies to his own — highly agricultural — district. He is against the (corporate) military-industrial complex, which is one of the reasons he’s always been opposed to the war. He also has a reputation as an extremely honest and ethical guy.
If you remember, corporatism used to be described by its opponents as “welfare for the rich”. So logically, those who are against what they call government handouts OUGHT to be against welfare for the rich. Many Republicans have talked the talk, but very few have walked the walk. Paul is one of the few.
Anybody has a right to oppose his extremely conservative positions, but nobody has the right to smear people on grounds that are just false.
I was basing this mostly upon many of the “fringe” anti-New World Order groups solidly endorsing Ron Paul. Indeed, they may base this upon Paul’s stance on the federal reserve and the military-industrial complex. I don’t agree with his positions on many things but he does stand out in stark contrast to the mainstream of the others. In light of our “mainstream” media you should know I have come to consider “mainstream” a four letter word I view with the highest contempt.
You have hit on the essential difference between Clinton, Obama and Edwards, one seldom discussed on the web or in the MSM. It is a top-down sense of how campaigns, and by extension govermnents, work.
I’m frankly sick of reading novice diarists and commenters say: “I won’t vote for Candidate X because of Statement Y.” It’s a shallow and ephemeral approach to a difficult problem. In fact, we need to look a lot further to determine how a future President will act in an unpredictable future.
John Edwards comes to goverment from a philosophical base that is truly populist. His government may (inevitably) seem less coordinated and disciplined than, say, a Clinton administration, but there is very little prospect of him losing touch with the base.
My firm conviction about Senator Clinton (although I agree with many of her positions) is that her deep-set philosophy of government is one of top-down authority. I believe that she hesitates to completely condemn the march ot war in Iraq because she wants to leave open the option that in some time in the future a situation would occur in her presidency when she would have to stretch the limits of authority for what she perceived as the good of the country.
Your diary confirms that impression.
And as for Carville, he can’t be anything but a hack if he lives with Matallin. It has to be a game!
and the effect of an 8 year Clinton Presidency was to leave us with King George III, Darth Chaney, an emaciated democratic party infrastructure outside of D.C. and a dearth of innovative ideas, solutions and leaders at the state and local level.
Many folks have been fighting for going on 5 years now to rebuild the democratic party’s ability to compete in all kinds of districts against all kinds of candidates and ideas; and finally to govern according to the rule of law and democratic values.
We’re worried that we may lose the gains we’ve made towards restoring a “progressive” federalism if the beltway boys and girls get their candidate or candidates in there.
For more information on Senator Clinton, including interest group ratings, public speeches, voting records and more, please visit her Project Vote Smart web page at please visit Senator Clinton’s Vote Smart homepage
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