HRC: The Republicans are rattling their sabers at Iran, but “I want to prevent a rush to war.” … “Well, first of all, I am against a rushed war. … Secondly, I am not in favor of this rush to war, but I am also not in favor of doing nothing.” Says that Iran is working towards nuclear weapons. “… I prefer vigorous diplomacy.”
Update:
CD: I think those 76 votes are going to be waved in front of us when George Bush tries to take unjustified action against Iran.
JB: Let’s look at what happened from the moment that vote took place. Oil prices went up. “We’ve emboldened Bush at the minimum,” he’s made irresponsible comments about WWIII. Driven Muslim moderates underground across the area, promotes urban legend that Americans are on a crusade against Islam, bad even if nothing else happens.
BO: I don’t think we should be talking about attacking Iran. Drumbeat from administration, Republican debates, need to pursue aggressive diplomacy. Need to be looking at carrots, “we have not made those serious attempts. … Weakens our capacity to influence Iran.” Shouldn’t talk about extreme options when haven’t tried other means.
HRC: Urges colleagues to pass resolution declaring that Bush doesn’t have authority to go to war. Need vigorous diplomacy, all options on table, resolution gives “I am not going to speculate about when or if they get nuclear weapons.” Should not allow them to acquire nuclear weapons, best way to prevent that is to have leverage for negotiators.
JE: The best way to promote diplomacy is to vote for an amendment that looked like it was written by the neocons and gave Bush everything he wanted? Did anyone read this thing? “A lot of us on this stage have learned this lesson the hard way. You give this president an inch and he’ll take a mile.”
BR: There is a redline, can’t permit Iran to use nuclear weapons. There are moderate elements in their society, we can come to a compromise and allow them to have civilian power. Critically important that we talk to North Korea, Syria and Iran. Saber rattling won’t get diplomacy started.
DK: There are a lot of enablers in this rush to war, a lot of them are Democrats. When you say ‘all options are on the table,’ you enable President Bush. The policy of pre-emption has licensed the war.
So far it would seem that tonight is going to be an all out attack on the Hill-Dog by everyone.
I think she’s done quite well so far, though I’m sure some will call her shrill. And I say that as someone who isn’t a fan of hers.
Dodd and Biden just made some great points about Iran.
Anyone else here? Anyone else watching?
Natasha and I both posted threads around the same time. Use whichever.
Now Brian Williams want to know about ‘electability’. Thank God for that. Let’s talk about electability.
What for. My man, Kucinich, hasn’t a chance in hell of getting in. But he is capable of cutting to the chase. When Hillary says all options on the table, he is correct. It gives Cheney-Bush the green light to start another confligration, and when gas prices really go up, the people will be blaming the Democrats.
Should people have more faith in the American people than they do? Is that all they are worried about, gas prices and paying less taxes? Reaganesque greed, will it ever leave?
Hillary: the Republicans have a constant obsession with me.
Tim Russert want to know if Hill will allow the National Archives to open up files that would expose inner deliberations of the Clinton administration.
Hillary ignores the question. She weasels.
Obama accuses her of continuing closed government style of the Bush administration. Nice slam.
Edwards: Republicans want to run against you, Clinton. (Edwards does populist pitch). Do you think the candidate that has raised the most money from the defense industry, pharma, health care, lobbyists from either party is the one to change things. We need someone who will tell the truth about a system that doesn’t work. I believe in the easter bunny and I believe in Santa Claus but I don’t believe Hillary is going to be your candidate.
Hillary = more Bush. Is Bill Clinton really the most adept politician of our generation? With Bush at 24%? Is this really the time to take on the issues of the adversary? This is not 1992, afterall, and nobody is talking about Welfare Queens in Chicago anymore.
Hillary: I’m going clean up the industries (that are supporting me).
Obama: my experience in politics is mainly legislative, but the thing we need in someone that can bring people together to solve problems.
(Where is the damn red meat?)
Dammit, you keep switching threads on me!
I’m a flip-flopper.
Why isn’t Gravel present to crack jokes?
He’s pissed about it…apparently he didn’t meet some fundraising or polling requirements. He’s broadcasting live on his website from outside the debate answering all the same questions.
Obama just said we don’t need another 8 years of bickering, have to get everyone working together, etc.
Sen. Obama, where did you get the impression that all this bickering started 8 years ago?
Clearly he’s lacking experience.
Kucinich : Let’s talk about the stuff I want to talk about or I’m taking my ball and going home!
he made good points, however.
Indeed. His best point was probably that this debate is going to be a flop, but I guess we still have 45 minutes or so.
Biden attacks Guiliani and Bush in the same sentence!!
That was f’ing awesome.
Biden has self-confidence. And he can be funny.
He’s a smart dude. And he clearly is impressed with his intellect. And yeah, he’s funny. And he loves the sound of his own voice.
Don’t get me wrong, I like him.
Is Obama really going to talk straight on Social Security?
I agree with Obama on extending the cap on Social Security, although it will lose a lot of votes among suburbanites.
Fuck them. Who needs those greedy bastards.
maybe you are new to the art of politics?
What art are you talking about? They are not going far enough. There should be NO salary cap on Social Security payments.
You can have upper class vote, which mostly goes Republican anyway; I’ll take the baby boomer vote, plus the vote of all people age 50 and above who are afraid Social Security won’t be there for them unless income to the program is increased.
The best way to do that is to drop any income cutoff for Social Security. This political technique is called judo. But you are right, I am new to the game.
Hillary harkens back to the last Gore-Bush debate: I agree, I agree, I agree.
Brian Williams : Obama, please prove to the American people that you are not a terrorist.
Brian Williams, please prove to the American people that you are not an idiot.
He’s fighting many years of precedent on that one.
Need to ramp down the rhetoric to reduce the risk premium. Need to raise fuel efficiency. Would go to automakers and work with them.
Yeah? When is he going to go to Rep. Dingell and negotiate with him? Nobody’s managed to get around that guy so far.
Dingell is my congressman, and it is frustrating as hell. He is good on most other issues, and because of that and his name and history he is firmly ensconced in that seat until he dies or quits.
i hope he doesn’t have any sons.
2 sons and 2 daughters. I don’t know if any of them are interested in politics though.
Edwards: we didn’t a surge in Baghdad, we needed a surge in New Orleans.
Good lord. Richardson’s saying that you need to get people to sacrifice when they use appliances. That isn’t going to get us out of this mess. But he started off good talking about hard emission reduction caps.
Dodd is talking about an industry carbon tax and addressing dependence on foreign oil. Better. If you don’t go after the big polluters, you can’t fix the problem. Says his energy plan is the most widely praised, invokes the name of Gore.
Hillary finally hits her stride.
I’m not a Hillary supporter, but seriously. This Hillary bashing is getting out of hand.
Speaking of out of hand…these questions are ridiculous.
not from my perspective…it should be worse.
I disagree.
Are you watching the post debate coverage?
yeah…they’re killing her for her flip-flopping, which was richly deserved. Dodd took a stand, Obama took a stand. Hillary refused to answer the question. And she was terrible tonight except for one point where she got going on one question.
I had a bunch of stuff typed here. But I’m still trying to sort it all out so I’m going to wait a day or two and go over the transcripts again before offering further thoughts.
I’ll sum it up though: this whole thing stinks. They say don’t hate the player, hate the game but tonight I find myself very suspect of both.
Biden on MSNBC post debate. I think he was the winner tonight. He’s got my support at this point. Going after Guliani was priceless!
And Kucinich is STILL the only one who understands that saying you support the Constitution is worthless if you don’t act to impeach the bastards who are breaking government into fiefdoms. The King and His Puppet must go!!!