crossposted on the NoSlaves.com blog
Earlier I wrote a piece exposing Edwards history for promoting more labor arbitraging guest worker Visas, yet in a recent NPR debate he sounds like he might be realizing Americans are being displaced, or at least is feeling the heat.
This is a good thing, certainly most of Edwards positions are more in line with working America (see Clinton on H-1B and yes Obama is about as bad).
From the December 4, 2007 Iowa, NPR debate:
SIEGEL: A question for Senator Edwards. If you’re elected president, you’ll hear competing claims about H1-B visas for highly skilled workers. People like Bill Gates will tell you we should have much, much more of them to bring in more highly skilled workers. Critics of that will say no, the United States is training other countries’ engineers and in fact those workers are working for less than American-trained specialists and engineers would.
What would you do as president? Expand H1-B visas or scale them back?
MR. EDWARDS: Well — well, the first point is, why is America not educating and training American workers to do these jobs? I mean, that’s the starting point —
SIEGEL: Well, there are Americans who say that they are being trained for those jobs but that they can’t compete with workers from India who will work for 10 percent less.
MR. EDWARDS: And that’s the reason — if American workers are actually competent to do those jobs, American workers should be doing those jobs. The whole purpose of the H1-B visa program is to bring people from other places who are — who have to do jobs that we don’t have American workers to do.
Now, I think there are two pieces to this. One is, if there are American workers who can do the jobs, they should be doing them, as I just said. And they will when I’m president.
Second, if we don’t have adequate American workers — and this is the other side of the equation, what Bill Gates and others would argue, and I’ve heard the same arguments — then that means America’s not doing its job of educating our young people, making —
SIEGEL: But are you saying that for you, it’s a matter of fact-finding to see which way you would go on H1-B visas, or have you already made up your mind that they should be limited or they should be increased?
MR. EDWARDS: I believe that there are American workers who can do some of these jobs that people are being brought from other places to do. And I think those American workers, if they’re there and available, should be doing the jobs.
But I — I’ve — you got to give me 30 more seconds on this, because you can’t ignore the underlying issue. The underlying issue is, are we making it easier for kids to go to college? Are we driving our young people into engineering, science and math, the very areas that we’re talking about? And are we doing it in a way that will strengthen the American economy over the long term? Because if we don’t — if we are not the most creative, the best-educated, the most innovative workforce on the planet, it is very difficult for us to compete.
Please note Senator Edwards, the underlying issue is really cheap labor. We actually have a glut in graduates in Science related fields who cannot get a job.
We really need a candidate who will stand up for the American people and this sure is a change of rhetoric from Edwards on guest worker Visas which are a major labor issue for Professional workers. He also seems to be realizing to a minor degree the wage repression via illegal workers is real. I’m not thrilled with his comprehensive immigration reform stance, which is the code word for corporate written, guest worker Visa laden bills and labor arbitrage agenda, but at least he is talking about real labor issues versus the usual inane rhetoric when asked.
And in New Hampshire we have
EDWARDS: Guest workers may be necessary where there are worker shortages, but I will eliminate abuses of the H-1B and L-1 guest worker programs by strengthening labor law enforcement and requiring employers to demonstrate that they could not recruit American workers and that they pay the prevailing wage.
and Senator Dodd gets a gold star for this statement:
I continue to express reservations about expanding the guest worker program. It is important that we close loopholes that allow American companies to hire lower-paid, high-tech workers from abroad. In order for America to be a land of opportunity for all, we must, first and foremost, make sure that opportunity exists for Americans
I’m still leery but that said, beyond Kucinch every single Democratic candidate will make sure middle class careers, professionals, especially those in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics will be economically decimated by the global labor arbitrage agenda. I should note Senator Dodd in 2003 tried to reform the L-1 guest worker Visa program. Still, unfortunately all sitting Senators running for President voted for massive increases both in 2006 and 2007.
Meanwhile, A lone tech worker braves the cold in Iowa demanding candidates stick up for working America while hordes of corporate cheap labor lobbyists court the candidates.
Oh, Biden is just plain wrong about the law, it’s perfectly legal to hire a H-1B worker, displacing an American and for less money.
On that note, this quote is most encouraging from Edwards:
American trade policy is catering to the interests of big corporate America. It has been for a decade and a half. And we desperately need a president of the United States who, instead of asking, is this going to help corporate profits — is this actually going to stand up for American workers and American jobs
I can’t make up my mind between Edwards and Obama.
I don’t believe Edwards’ populism, but I’d like it if someone could actually win saying these things.
On the other hand, rewarding clearly corporate lobbyists’ agenda and talking points, which sad but true on this issue Obama has said many times and Hillary is …well, my link is pretty damning…
but I think the issue is credibility here with Edwards. As I point out his actual voting record is horrific and even in the debate he would not say that his vote on the China PNTR was a mistake. People focus on NAFTA but the ultimate really damaging to the United States, working America trade agreement is the China PNTR.
Anyway, Obama has an immigration attorney/lobbyist (revolving door situation) ‘advising’ him on insourcing (which the AILA(attorney lobbyists) has a huge financial interest in increasing) and it’s well documented he will go against the AFL-CIO plus the many other labor groups on this issue. (insourcing is the corollary or dual to offshore outsourcing, global labor arbitrage).
Edwards also has huge funds from the AILA so for him to say this was pretty amazing for I’m sure they will fight him tooth and nail on any real reforms of guest worker Visas.
let us keep in mind the competition, you have to get to the office first, before you can make change.
will any of them do that?
that will remain to be seen, but what have we seen so far with our current group in power…Yikes…
as the people, we must try to make the change, and it isn’t going to be easy, since most people are only interested in what they can get, on a personal level…and no one else.
it will be a trying period in our time..but someone has to make the change.
what have the other’s voted or stood for? there is a lot of talk right now, but I’m convinced that Edwards will be the lesser of the evil’s we have to choose from.
great article, and informative, thanks
I think Dodd is worth a second look, although none of them are co-sponsoring current legislation for reforms…but that said Dodd has introduced quite a bit of legislation (that of course is tabled!) that is in the national interest and in the interest of working America. He tried to remove a tax incentive to offshore outsource jobs, he voted against the Bankruptcy bill. That vote is brazen for corporate lobbyists and credit cards and against the US middle class and it passed the Senate 74-25.
But, yes I think we need to get the least of all evils as the nominee and right now it doesn’t look good for economic, US middle class issues.
Bob..something I don’t understand about the H1-b..is that Microsoft opened an office in Vancouver, B.C., because it could not get enough persons in the skill positions. And this was due to a lack of available visas. Are you saying that companies like Microsoft are ignoring an American workers?
Microsoft is notorious to age discriminate and reject even world leading researchers, never mind anyone qualified for their typical jobs. The Vancouver thing was just a big PR stunt. It’s simply easier to put their super cheap labor on L-1s in order to technology transfer out of the US, and have them closer than hire Americans and be a good employer. More the truth is Microsoft is a member of NASSCOM (India business tech association) and is quite active in offshore outsourcing software R&D and IT. So Bill Gates is also representing domestically India’s interests, that’s part of it. I believe their rejection rate is 99% of those they even interview, which really tells you something and they also are not getting the “best and the brightest” (somehow I don’t think all of the best and the brightest are magically under 30 years of age; imagine that percentage and then think of the best universities in the world, which are the US universities, graduating Americans in software engineering, does not add up here).
They also were sued via class action for keeping permanent employees as contractors, thus denying them benefits.
That said they are not the worst of the bunch believe it or not on this.
Anyway, if anyone bothered to enact the reforms, they have known about for years now there would be plenty of Visas available for those cases where truly you’re trying to enable international talent because those cheap labor organizations simply wouldn’t get them.
and please note any reform, even a simple scholarship program Bernie Sanders got through was ripped out after the bill had passed, per the demands of these very corporate lobbyists. It was a simple fee increase to fund scholarships in Technology…and on this one it was so obvious, the corporate lobbyists were poed because it “cut into their bottom line”. They called it a “tax”. Well, well, their claims of a worker shortage yet stopping any funding of a scholarship program in that very career area shows just how much this is about global labor arbitrage and technology transfer out of the US.
If we limit the H-1B Visas, would corporations simply set up operations in India and get the work done overseas,thus avoiding all the political fallout altogether?
Isn’t that what is happening already?
How is that going to be avoided and what help does that give to unemployed US workers?
That’s another propaganda statement. The reality is they are using the H-1B TO offshore outsource jobs. They use it for lower costs, technology transfer and no they do not sponsor people for a green card quite often. Another reality is engineering is so intense one needs teams to be here, together, coordinated. Also many offshore outsourced projects fail, basically because they are half way around the world.
It is my understanding that engineering project outsourcing is still in its infancy.The bulk of outsourcing involves Business processes,Legal,accounting,Insurance and other support services.
It is very likely that engineering is a different kettle of fish altogether and may require skilled teams working together in close proximity.Even that day may be approaching fast as I see that many manufacturing activities are already being located in India and China.Engineering and Research is sure to follow.
As they say in business, the only thing that matters is the bottom line.Limiting the H1B Visas is at best a temporary fix.The dismantling of American manufacturing is happening at a furious pace and we have to find a way to stop it if we intend to keep jobs at home.
Blinder said 40M jobs are targets for offshore outsourcing. This is why we call ourselves noslaves.com, this is globalization or race to the bottom that so many are talking about.
Actually, the speed of outsourcing is more rapid in engineering, scientific, and technology jobs areas than in manufacturing…
These jobs are not dependent on the recreation of extensive “brick and mortar” and transportation systems…
The next person you see stocking a shelf at Wal-Mart or serving food at a restaurant may be a displaced American engineer.
As for the tie-in to H-1b visa workers, Indian government officials and business leaders have called it the “outsourcing visa” for a reason: it is used to facilitate the offshore outsourcing of jobs from the U.S. Foreign tech/engineering workers enter the US under the H-1b under the pretext of a “worker shortage” but they often leave after having receive “knowledge transfers” from American engineers.
You see, American engineers are required by law to obey their employers when they order them to train their foreign replacements prior to being terminated. This is considered a lawful request. American workers who refuse face immediate termination of employment for “just cause”. Employers may even then challenge a discharged American worker’s claim for state unemployment benefits!
H-1b is a program crafted by business lobbyists in collusion with politicians anxious to please their business supporters.