I don’t read My Left Wing and I don’t know how this happened, but I will not let it bleed over to this site. I allow more leeway for people to discuss Israel/Palestinian issues than most forums but there is no way I will tolerate even a hint of anti-Semitism, let alone a recommended diary that states:
I now find myself, for the first time in my life, hating Jews. I find myself hating the Jews on this site, both the Jews who have conducted their malicious campaign against me for so long and the Jews who have stood by in silent solidarity with them, never saying a word against their vile attacks, their cruelty and ugliness.
I find myself thinking that Proximity perhaps has the right idea, that Jews regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews. That Jews will always stand with other Jews no matter their guilt, and against non-Jews, no matter their innocence. The face of Jews has become unspeakably ugly in my sight, because of the ugliness of the Jewish haters here.
That is straightforward anti-Semitism…no ifs ands or buts. If I see crap like that posted here, I will delete it and ban the user. And I’ll ban people that recommend that kind of hate.
So far, we’ve been able to maintain a civil conversation on I/P issues, where people are willing to learn from each other and revise their views. But I will not let the issue devolve into what has happened at My Left Wing.
BooMan, kudos to you!
My opinion is that the person who posted that material was just waiting for an excuse to say openly what they had always felt.
re: your wrong!
you’re use of contractions isn’t very right.
Wow. That’s pure car crash territory.
FWIW, as a long-time lurker here, and a somewhat rare poster, and as a Jew.
I have always found your site to be incredibly open to people posting there thoughts on the topics at hand (I/P issues) while not ever bleeding over into crap like that. Though there is often disagreement, it has always appeared to me to be well thought out arguments, not hate.
Please understand MissM is not a racist. It was written from hurt and frustration. Have you ever said something that you did not mean? Let’s not burn her at the stake just yet.
Oh come on, don’t give me that crap.
Of course I have but it has NEVER been something racist, or sexist, or biggoted in any way. For someone to say something like that, it is because DEEP down inside, they ARE a racist… not because they are hurt, or upset.
I have been reading MssM for over 3 years. She’s not racist. But she has been stalked by a man from San Francisco sniffing and obsessing on her panties for months. This alone would drive me to drink!
Drinking maybe, but it wouldn’t cause one to target Jews in this way.
I don’t get the connection or excuse? you’re trying to make here, kinda like comparing apples to oranges. Being stalked doesn’t drive you to racism.
…too long to explain.
Well I wouldn’t mind a long explanation if it would give me some insight into what was said.
Both msM and I were banned from daily kos after hundreds of personal attacks by zionists that did not want diaries critical of Israel on dk. This went on for about two years. The administration did nothing and protected most of the zionists. The excuses that were used to banned both of us was just a ruse. We both migrated over to mlw, booman and pff! where there was freedom to discuss the issues. I also got banned by the zionists over at docudhrama. They were pretty up front about it.
Now interesting: peeder who runs pff! is a zionist but believes in free speech….fancy that! He has my respect.
A particular nasty zionist has been calling msM “pissy pants” for months, and that’s one of the more endearing pet names he used. After getting kicked in the face so many times people do meltdown. It’s not who she is….once the swelling goes down, hopefully she can come back and write about it.
you call that an explanation?
i didn’t see a single thing in your story that justified what she wrote.
Sets it in context.
tho you had the advantage of being removed from the emotional pressure of her situation, mattes, miss mannered could have done what you did, and distinguished “zionists” from “jews.”
my wife is a jew. she is no zionist.
i wouldn’t have blamed miss m if she wrote a diary about hating zionists.
but she didn’t.
i ran into a bunch of black comics in a green room a few years ago, who were acting particulary obnoxious and pretty much trying to rule the room.
if i said i hated black people just because these three guys pee’d me off, i would be open to as much disrespect as miss m is currently (and probably rightfully) experiencing.
I wish she would not have let her anger rule. But after knowing her….as best we can online and through email, I don’t think it’s her true self that wrote that.
She said she hates Jews. What is there to debate?
And I have said I hated catholics….and all men (many times)….and republicans….and not when I was drinking. She might have meant it at that particular moment, but I don’t believe it’s who she really is.
That said….I wish she would come back and show her compassionate side.
this is ridiculous. You go around saying you hate Catholics? You don’t understand plain expressions of hate? The woman hates Jews. She may have some confused reason for doing so, but I don’t care. Why are people recommending her diary? What the hell happened over at MLW that turned it into Stormfront?
Zero tolerance is the only policy, Booman.
About two months ago, I had to delete a diary over at MLW because the commentary was becoming not only inappropriate to the content, but veering into talk that most Jews, indeed, anyone, would find suspect of a bigoted source. IP is a genuine cause and it should not be corrupted by talk impunes people through ethnic slurs. When two bloggers posted comments elsewhere on the blog that were, if not antiSemitic, boldly insensitive to Jewish history, and might be considered antiSemitic, I wrote the administration and made clear that those persons should be banned. They were not. With MM’s diary, paragraphs of which are quoted, it was time to leave.
You really really think she meant it?
Of course she meant it.Stop the attempted excuses. There is no excuse for it. However, what is important as well is that once said openly, it can be dealt with. Both by others and also and probably more importantly, by her!
The sad point is that in todays insanity, the help available will probably reenforce the anti semitic racist feeling instead of offering a new direction for the feelings.
I think being human is a complicated existence.
do you mean being a human being rather than being human! I agree with you if you meant being a human being but being Human is defined by most as having the traits that include tolerance and love and concern for ones fellow human beings! If one hates and one is racist they are still human beings but they certainly aren’t human!
I have never made that distinction.
I can’t respond to your question Mattes, but I certainly agree that it was totally unexpected and surprising to get this kind of a diary from MM. While I can appreciate that she was attacked continually on Daily Kos and then on MLW by the right wing Zionist gangs that surface together, so was I. It was always there, But never would it occur to me to distinguish these people as “the Jews,” because I know, and I keep repeating, that the strongest voices supporting Palestinian freedom and self-determination comes from the Jewish community, in Israel, as well as in America, England, South Africa, and elsewhere.
Conflating right wing Zionist extremism with being Jewish is incredibly naive. Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism and Judaism has nothing to do with the plight of the Palestinian people. This is a nationalist movement and not all people who regard themselves as Jewish subscribe to it. Far from it.
I too can’t believe that MM really meant what she said, but it is certainly not the kind of talk that helps the Palestinian cause. Just the opposite. Perhaps she lost direction and purpose. I hope that she will find it again. I otherwise appreciated her support for this cause when she was less focused on her own wounds.
I think you said it best. She lost direction, but I think she will find it again. It’s out of character. But it does show one way people can become prejudice.
I like the pond for a lot of reasons, clear design, low bandwidth, but mostly I like it because you can discuss such a large group of topics.
We need a place to talk about the Middle East and I/P issues without the constraints of conventional wisdom. This country is in terrible trouble because no one could tell the truth about what was going on.
So I hope we can maintain the present atmosphere.
i personally was amazed that the diary was left on the site. i can only attribute that fact to msoc’s illness.
i do notice, however, i am totally unable to access any of the comments on the thread.
not that i particularly want to get into that mess…
how did it happen? MLW has become the place where everyone who has been banned by other leftwing sites go. it doesn’t surprise me at all that something like that would appear there.
the right doesn’t have a monopoly on crazy.
Not so far as Booman Tribune or MLW is concerned. During the past year, Kos has banned over twenty members who posted IP diaries, yet I have seen only a few who migrated to these sites. I know because I was one of them and I knew all the others. I won’t name those few out of respect, but also because the reason for their banning, like my own, was purely political and had nothing to do with blog behavior. In my own case, no reason whatsoever was given, and it happened twice, having been reinstated the first time.
Let me say in retrospect that if Kos wishes to exclude a central issue in American foreign policy from discussion on his blog, well, that his business. And if the so-called “left wing” of the Democratic party, the people who blog there, wish to tolerate censorship, then I think that is their business too. But let’s not kid ourselves about Kos’ conformance to what is essentially a DLC/AIPAC agenda, which would demand silence of criticism of Israel, lack of concern for Palestinian freedom and self-determination, and acceptance of a foreign policy dictated by a foreign government.
i’m not saying that kos hasn’t banned a lot of people, or that everyone banned by kos went to MLW. but the site has become a magnet for people who have been banned by multiple sites. being banned doesn’t mean you’re crazy, but crazy people do tend to get banned. my impression of MLW is that it has reached a point where the crazy/non-crazy ratio is way out of balance. that’s why i stopped going there. and that’s why others have as well, which further warps the ratio.
Although I think you are damning the whole for the few, I believe it was only a few who could be categorized in your terms. As far as IP is concerned, don’t forget that there was a gang of right wing Zionists resident there who also stimulated a considerable amount of craziness, if not pure dishonesty, who were not among the “banned elsewhere.” Dhonig, for example, who wrote the DKos diary dmaning MLW and was not among the banned, tried to stimulate a considerable amount of controversy on MLW, always implying that this or that comment was antiSemitic, when it was only critical.
Some few did step over the line re. antiSemitism, and their points, like “Christ killers” or the contention that Jews were partially responsible for the Holocaust, went over the line. MM’s diary, when it arrived, was powerful enough to fulfill dhonig’s otherwise unwarranted charge of antiSemitism on MLW, which began with the very idea of permitting IP diaries on the blog. He was only interested in silencing criticism of Israel.
In reality only a few people are implicated in your craziness notion. Many people from DKos still crosspost at MLW and would likely disagree with your conclusion.
well, maybe you’re right. as i said above, i stopped dropping by MLW because the craziness quotient seemed to be getting to high for my tastes. i did get the impression that it was a site increasingly frequented by people who were not welcome elsewhere. that doesn’t make them crazy–there are certainly a lot of non-crazy people who get unfairly banned or attacked by others. but crazy people also tend to get banned and chased away. my impression was that MLW was getting a lot of them, so i decided it wasn’t a site worth visiting anymore.
And Peeder is a zionist Jew….but he believes in free speak.
mlw is pretty quiet next to Peeder’s site.
PFF is a magnet for IP because its intent is merely to provide a home way out of the mainstream for proPalestinian bloggers, a place, no, a hole where they can scream all they want and not be noticed. It is loud cemetery.
When diaries get emailed….they do get noticed.
Perhaps. But does PFF have an RSS Feed? And who is subscribing to it?
his front page is more widely read than dk’s non-recommended diaries.
I stand amazed. Who is reading his blog?
Well…..pff! seems to be the topic of conversation at dk.
“…more widely read than dk’s non-recommended diaries…”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
that’s like saying he’s more popular than herpes…those “non-recommended” diaries scroll completely off the page…oblivionville… after about 30 min. max.
l’ll leave you two to figure out how popular peeder [?] is….but l do appreciate the levity.
lTMF’sA