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About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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Recent Posts
- Day 14: Louisiana Senator Approvingly Compares Trump to Stalin
- Day 13: Elon Musk Flexes His Muscles
- Day 12: While Elon Musk Takes Over, We Podcast With Driftglass and Blue Gal
- Day 11: Harm of Fascist Regime’s Foreign Aid Freeze Comes Into View
- Day 10: The Fascist Regime Blames a Plane Crash on Nonwhite People
Wow. A three threader.
and the first black president question
What a stupid question.
I hate it.
ok, that was funny: Obama: I’m going to have to assess his dancing ability before I can tell you if he was a brother..
Humor is the ultimate weapon of any candidate. That’s one thing JFK had – a genuine sense of humor. Obama’s the only one on the stage who has shown that consistently.
Obama’s answer to that stupid question was fabulous.
That break helped them all.
Hell, motherfuckin’ no. Morrison was a twit to say that.
Obama was diplomatic on that one.
Hillary sounds like she’s giving a fourth grade book report on her favorite historical figure…
She’s been waiting all night to get that Frederick Douglas quote in.
and her eyes do look fabulous tonight
the makeup is starting to break up though – wrinkles are coming back. It’s so hard growing older as a woman!!
My friend in Greece just said, “Oh, she threw down her Black card on that on. Do American’s even know how Douglas is?”
you know what? that’s all most people know about MLK, so it works
I was like, blah, blah, blah…you can sit down now. Not a response that sounds presidential.
Is it just the feed I’m getting or does she look like she’s going to cry.
maybe she got botox in her eye?
there’s no terrorists or illegal immigrants in this debate, it’s like a GOP-free zone.
this is so wrong, but am I the only one who thinks Omar bin Laden is hot?
Yes. 😉
No, not osama…the 26 year old son. He looks like he’s made by Mattel.
I’ve never seen a pick but his dad is fugly.
There was an interview with him on one of the networks. He’s married to British woman i think and he’s trying to be a peace activist. Yeah, good luck with that…
I was talking about the son. I liked his hair from the back, but from the front, he didn’t do anything for me.
I saw a picture of him in the newspaper this morning and it’s still drying out. Yummers.
Whew…I was afraid it was only me. 🙂
undocumented immigrants came up tangentially in the health care debate, courtesy of Leslie.
true, but Edwards was talking about getting them into the health care system.
It’s difficult to explain in a debate about the benefits of universal healthcare for illegals. If you’re standing in line in the grocery store and the guy who’s coughing on you didn’t get his TB treated because he’s illegal you don’t benefit.
That was offensive.
Offensive that someone has untreated TB?
That you would continue to promote the belief that undocumented people are diseased and worthy of all the blame for the failure of this society’s social systems.
Sorry, that’s not what I was saying. I meant that people who don’t get healthcare don’t get treated for whatever diseases they may get. That applies to poor people who are citizens or poor people who aren’t citizens. If you live in a society of haves and havenots, being rich or Republican or reactionary doesn’t necessarily insulate you from public health concerns.
I was responding to the fact that none of the three candidates included illegal aliens in their proposed healthcare plans. How, in a political debate, do you show reactionaries who believe that you can magically disappear illegal immigrants by telling them to all go to their countries of origin that all of us benefit from healthcare? You show that healthcare for all protects all of us.
Sorry, if I offended you. I have a feeling we are probably in agreement for what we want. I certainly wasn’t suggesting that illegals are infested with disease and I regret if that’s how it came out.
thanks for your clarification. i did read it the other way and appreciate you taking the time to expand.
i think that question was designed to re-raise the specter of “illegals” taking advantage of social systems. it is an issue that the democrats will need to learn how to re-frame and counter because while it may not be an issue during the primaries where the candidates mostly agree, the GOP is going to use it in the general. So far, there are crickets chirping from the dems and the far right is succeeding at the framing and divisive politics.
How wouldyou frame it, Man Egee? I do think this is a difficult and important challenge for the left. It’s obvious to me that immigrants contribute more than they take from our system, but it’s not obvious to others.
Heh, if I had a good answer for that then I would be a rich man.
For a policy starter, I can’t do better than Duke over at Migra Matters.
I think the rhetoric can be addressed easily but it seems like the Dems are scared to touch it. Lou Dobbs, Pat Buchanan, etc. are able to make wild claims everyday with no one calling them out. I just see a vacuum in the punditocracy that lets them get away with a faux-populist meme while at the same time they won’t support worker rights/strengthening of unions, trade overhaul and living wage policies. The whole race component to it all is completely ignored, as well, even though many of us who share appearances with the undocumented population feel the xenophobia with the same force. It gets very tiring.
I have two sisters so I’m trained to notice these things. And be honest.
Hillary looks fat in that outfit, when sitting down.
ouch.
I disagree. I think she looks good.
I wish Obama hadn’t crossed his legs. Someone needs to teach him body language skills!
It’s the thighs. That’s avoidable with the right outfit.
There were a lot of shots taken of her backside. Our family agreed she’s gained weight. Stress?
They are both good here but I give the points to Obama – that was a great statement on race.
I was waiting for him to pre-empt Hillary with a statement about gender equality too. It’s too bad – that was a missed opportunity.
what a super-duper close up of edwards. how can he be 54?
I was just noticing how smooth his skin still is.
I swear makeup ages women, and that’s why men’s skin tends to look so much better.
Did anyone else see her flare up a bit at “your husband’s voice” before she smiled?
I’m not sure I caught that, but I noticed that she didn’t really answer the question.
I’m going call this debate for edwards, not that it will help him much.
I agree – barring something happening between now and the end, he wins. And it won’t matter.
Although he may take some votes away from Hillary. Which would be good imo.
I agree.
Oh, I disagree. I think Obama really took he heat well, and got the focus, and came through with some good answers.
This is the first debate I think he actually won. He’s got to get his health care plan answers down, and he seems to have trouble forming words on the spot, but he’s been stronger than ever. I can’t even remember half of Edwards’ answers. I remember Clinton’s though!
nah. he got hammered.
Did you watch the follow-up coverage? While the undecided voters thought Edwards won, they also said they’d vote for Obama because they think he has the better chance of winning. And votes are what counts, after all, yes?
I think they all did well at times but the squabbling and yelling between Obama and Clinton was bad. John took control then as the responsible dad driving the car, yelling at the kids in the back to make ’em STFU. He owned the debate from then on. Never lost his cool. That’s presidential.
Yeah, but I thought that Clinton hoisted herself up a little after getting down in the mud early on. I don’t think the slum lord punch landed, but the Walmart jab really hurt her.
What I did discover is that I wished Kucinich were there to offer a real universal healthcare alternative. In fact, I would have liked him to offer his opinion on all those subjects, except whether or not Bill is black.
Obama is hitting on my main reason for liking his chances.
I held my breath when he was going to say something good about Bush and Cheney.
oh my gosh – I felt like Edwards just stopped short of saying vote for me because I’m the white guy – re who can best beat McCain. Oh no.
He evidently heard himself and just stopped to clarify. But it IS the argument he’s making – being able to compete in the rural south, etc. He’s basically saying Hillary and Obama can’t beat him everywhere.
I think that will change dramatically after Obama wins SC.
Yeah, I hope he didn’t mean it that way. Sounded like it but I just don’t want to think he meant it that way.
Given the actual words out of his mouth, I just can’t figure out any other way to read it, despite his intentions.
Seems like he’s pulled something out of the deep-dark on the fly & I don’t believe his clarification was clear.
Btw – this isn’t true anymore.
Here’s the breakdown, according to RealClearPolitics as of right now:
McCain vs. Edwards – McCain by 1.7%
McCain vs. Clinton – McCain by 4.0%
McCain vs. Obama – McCain by 1.3%
So Obama does the best against Edwards, and if he wins Saturday, I expect that will flip, as it did, briefly, after his Iowa win. This time, it may stick.
God, anyone would vote for a guy who wants to stay in Iraq for a hundred years over any of these candidates? That’s really distressing.
Plus, even chuck norris thinks he’s too old to be prez.
Maybe Chuck N. will take care of McCain in Florida like he took care of the Vietcong and Cuban troops in “Invasion U.S.A.”
It was a great combination of bad film making and rightwing paranoia.
Edwards: “Don’t forget that people are racist and I am white”
Yep. Veiled, but it’s hard to read that any other way. I found it incredibly insulting.
I see we interpreted that comment the same way, and at the same time 🙂
Yeah. Funny, that!
Yeah, but was he right?
I have heard that Edwards is appealing to others because he presents himself as a true choice from a Republican. Clinton often appears to be Republican Lite, while Obama is somewhere in between the two.
Not according to the lastest polls – see the numbers. Obama is closer to beating McCain than Edwards is.
That’s what he said…
Poor John. The only white male…
Obama: It’s okay John.
Where he was the only one to beat McCain.
I think he’s right about Missouri. If he was the candidate he’d do great here. And he’d be great down-ticket. It’s not really because he’s a white guy -but because he’s a regular guy.
See above. Obama is beating Edwards against McCain.
Edwards matched up a winner against all Republican candidates for months, better than Obama or Clinton. It’s hard to believe that McCain will beat any Democrat, Lisa, but that’s what your stats seem to be saying.
Not saying that it isn’t posted or reported. I just don’t believe it. If, after eight years of Bush, McCain beats all three Democrats then there is no hope for America. That’s scary.
As far as Obama doing better, I think that his appeal to independents may have put him ahead of Edwards.
Anyway, I’m sure Edwards will get skewered on that one. But he may be right about being the most electable, and not because of race. Clinton has incredibly high negatives, even among Democrats, and people will vote against her because they don’t like her, whatever her positions.
Lisa, give us a link.
The polls from a long time ago don’t apply. It’s all about current trends.
And it’s hard to make an argument that you have the best chance of winning in November when you can’t even win a primary in your own party.
And here’s the link – http://www.realclearpolitics.com.
There are all kinds of polls there, averaged. The average is only of the latest polls, which are the only ones that matter. How people felt two months ago tells us little about how they feel now.
I don’t think the polls are necessarily accurate in terms of numbers, but they’ve been very accurate in terms of who is trending up or down. Obama had a huge spike across the board after Iowa, but that took a dip after the NH “loss” (even though he tied Clinton in terms of pledged delegates).
Here’s the direct link to McCain vs. Edwards. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_edwards-226.htm
l
Check the left navigation when you get there for the links to McCain vs. Clinton and McCain vs. Obama.
Ugh. McCain. Anyone have a couple of spare genie wishes I could borrow? I’d like him to lose and then resign from the Senate. Thanks in advance.
So would half the Republican party. It isn’t a done deal yet.
Jesus Christ? WTF?? I thought Barack was a muslim?
made me laugh
NO!!! That’s false information that’s been spread.
His father was a Muslim, but left him when he was TWO.
Obama is a Christian and has been most of his life!
I dunno Lisa, I read it on craigslist so it must be true 😉
Yeah, I got an email from my uncle in Alabama about that so it MUST be true.
What’s scary is that a lot of people don’t see it as a joke. I can’t tell you how many people I talked to in the past week who gave that as a reason for not voting for him. It was shocking!
I’m still laughing over this comment.
I don’t think Wolfster is reading the same CNN Politics I’m reading: “raging discussion”. Okay.
he meant to say dKos. Rage. Not much discussion.
maybe he was at booman trib. and didn’t realize it
hillary already ceding issue of the next campaign “national security” does she promise to catch OBL..we already know a republican can’t.
Hillary and John are going at it now. Maybe Barack can “rise above”
Hear that? Hillary’s gonna get public financing. Uh Huh…
uh huh
BTW, did she ever answer Edwards’ contention that she takes the most money from insurance companies?
If she did, I missed it. Lobbyist influence does seem to be a sore spot, imo.
I think she responded with an attack about Edwards’ trial lawyer support
Edwards turned that one around. He had 4 years to work on a response though, so that’s a bit unfair.
OK. No direct response.
Almost everything she’s saying today contradicts what she was saying 3, 4, 7 months ago. Now she’s for public financing of campaigns?
I like the format of this debate. Are they going to do the same thing for the republicans? I can just see McCain falling asleep and Romney with that Jack Nicholson in The Shining smile of his, and Rev. Huckabee being all folksy ’cause Jesus is on his side…
lol!
btw did you see that Bill Clinton fell asleep at a public appearance today?
And he wants a 3rd term? Oh wait, Hill’s got his back.
He did. He was sitting in a church behind a speaker who was talking about MLK and he put his head on his hand and his head started nodding and … he was asleep. It was hilarious.
we think he looks ill
I liked Obama’s foreign policy answer.
me too
I agree. Her foreign policy response is Republican lite, a phrase, by the way, I think Obama or Edwards should use.
National security: I’m glad he’s hitting her on this. I totally agree. “Me too” will not beat John McCain.
Another stupid question. Poor Edwards, how can he possibly not sound like the odd man out?
They’re like stoner dorm questions or better yet, The Dating Game questions, “Bachelor #1, if you could be fruit, which one would you be and why?
Awesome closing statement from Obama. Excellent. MLK wouldn’t endorse anyone. He’s hold us accountable. Change from bottom up. Yup.
yes, that was an excellent answer.
He’s been better in the sitting down part. I think having it out with Hillary finally – it relaxed him a bit. She still seemed a bit on edge.
I think she came in on edge.
I missed that, I was taking out the recycle stuff. That’s a much better answer than Edwards just listing his resume.
I like Obama, but I can’t help but think that Hillary comes across well in these formats. She’s forceful and not the least bit tentative.
I know. I always think that. But I do think she was over the top in the first part and that hurt her.
the undecideds viewing on CNN’s panel didn’t gravitate to her. They liked Edwards best, but said if they voted their heads and not their hearts, Obama was the guy because they felt he had the best chance to win in November.
Edwards won.
I really can’t tell between Hillary and Obama. My gut is to give it to Obama. But who knows.
Well, here comes the spin.
time for one of these?
totally
Time for another glass of wine.
I think they all did well, though Clinton’s blatant lies and wild 180s were annoying to me. I figured I’d like Edwards more if he didn’t have to say words like ‘go’ or ‘through’. Skin crawling right there. Obama needs to learn how to not get distracted from applause. He starts off strong [clap] “and…uh…I just wanted to say…uh…that.”
He may need more exposure — maybe applause tapes during naps.
I thought Edwards had some strong moments and a couple of flat ones (and he could get hurt by the “most electable” thing if anyone in the media pays attention to him). I think Edwards’ pledge not to have lobbyists in the White House was a good thrust.
I thought Obama did well. He seemed to stumble or get lost a few times when he would have done well to dive right in. I don’t think the voting present thing was a big deal. I understood his explanation even if Edwards didn’t.
Clinton had a few moments later on, but when I came in (missed the first bit of the debate) she was really gutter fighting. Did not do her any good. And Obama’s “Walmart” trumped anything she had in her arsenal.
I came in supporting Edwards and will still vote for him in California on Super Tuesday. Obama’s my second choice and Clinton if she’s the eventual candidate, though I do not like her or her positions.
I felt the healthcare question went to Hillary.
I felt the who would MLK choose went to Obama.
I think staying out of the fray, for the most part, helped Edwards, but I didn’t really think he had a knockout answer that distinguished him at any point.
Obama is winning the recap.
Except for his failure to give a coherent answer on the present votes – but at least the people meter only flat-lined, it didn’t fall. But no points there.
I thought the “present votes” explanation was fine, even before Edwards interrupted and repeated the question.
I’m not the only one who thought it was inadequate. From TPM:
He needs a short concise answer that takes care of the question. He doesn’t have it yet. Josh is right – it’s his responsibility. He needs to work on it.
I agree that he did a bad job at explaining it – though will say that if McCain is indeed the GOP nominee, the issue will be null and void because he is notorious for skipping out on votes that matter.
good point.
Although it doesn’t look like Hillary and Edwards are going to let up on it during the primaries.
I don’t think it’s the kind of thing that changes minds one way or another. No one who is opposing Obama that I know has cited that as their reason.