The decision to pursue the death penalty against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a number of other suspects creates a situation that no doubt was thought through by the Bush administration more than whether to actually use torture against these people in the first place. I haven’t seen this angle discussed too much in depth but if it has, please forgive me.
Regardless of whether anyone thinks that the death penalty is a just punishment, is “cruel and inhuman”, or just plain doesn’t agree with it, I want to at least (for now) leave that out of this post. If Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (“KSM” to make it easier for me) is guilty of masterminding the 9/11 attacks, or if he is guilty of any other crimes that can be proven, then he should receive the justice that he deserves. This is not about whether he should or should not pay for his crimes.
I don’t think there are many people who would say that he does not deserve punishment (whatever the maximum punishment that can be meted out would be) for planning these attacks. But, and here is the rub – the fact that his trial will be largely based on evidence that is obtained by torture will forever cloud his trial – if not in the eyes of Americans then most certainly in the eyes of the world .
Thus, the second part of this conundrum – the argument that “liberals would rather let an evil terrorist mastermind go free than receive justice for his role in killing thousands of Americans” which no doubt would be trotted out. But this is, to me, something that was done purposely.
To have as many legal memos that talk about torture being justified, about “enemy combatants” being outside the Geneva Conventions, the “interrogation techniques” that were personally approved by Rumsfeld, the debate going on among those who support torture and the rest of the civilized world about whether waterboarding is “technically” torture, the news that Bush personally ordered waterboarding – all of this was done to make sure that KSM could be prosecuted for his role and actions, even if the only way that the CIA can get information out of him is by torturing him.
Or because Mister Bush is a sadist. But either way, there was a long discussion and debate on a number of occasions that would have Mukasey waffle on whether waterboarding is illegal even though he said that it would be torture if it was done to him and that torture is illegal. Or that would have Scalia, a number of republican Senators (including John McCain) vote against outlawing waterboarding. Or that would have waterboarding ONLY used if Bush himself ordered it.
The end result of all of this is a situation where someone whose actions (if true) nobody can defend, and is the most unsympathetic figure outside of Osama bin Laden in the eyes of Americans is now at the center of yet another fork in the road for this country.
Choose option 1 and we have a precedent whereby evidence can be obtained by torture and used as primary evidence in a prosecution that could carry the death penalty as a punishment. Option 1 also further reduces America’s reputation in the global community.
Choose option 2 and we have a situation where someone that very well may have had a huge hand in the biggest attack on American soil can not be prosecuted because the primary evidence against him was obtained via torture. Or that the prosecution is tainted because of the evidence obtained by torture, and is not viewed as legitimate to the vast majority of the world (and many in this country). Option 2 also results in the “why do you hate America” nonsense that detracts from the fact that (1) that is total crap and a distraction from reality, (2) one of the chief architects of the 9/11 attacks either goes free or is prosecuted in what will be known as a kangaroo court proceeding and most importantly, (3) this is all due to willful and premeditated acts by the highest levels of the US government.
The road chosen will go a long way towards either repairing our reputation in the world or reinforcing that we do not care about the rule of law that this administration preaches about. Unfortunately, we as a country have been put in this position (once again) by our own government, and these people will look to point fingers instead of actually thinking of the ramification of their actions.
And I am sure that many people will say (as I have heard before) that it really doesn’t matter that he is tortured if he was actually guilty. But that isn’t the point. If he was actually guilty, then he shouldn’t have to be tortured in order to be prosecuted.
Once again, Mister Bush and his cohorts have put this country in a horrible position with two bad choices. This time, the ramifications are the justification for torture and the use of it to obtain evidence for a prosecution.
That is a door that should never have been opened. Thanks, once again, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, Jay Bybee, John Yoo, John McCain, Michael Mukasey and everyone else who allowed and enabled this country to reach yet another new low.
The trial will lead to nothing unless ‘reasonable doubt’ is not the standard to which the evidence is held.
Torture = reasonable doubt.
These are not real trials. There will be no jury of peers, no independent judge, no appeal to the federal courts. It’s all being handled by the military which has rigged the game per instructions from the Bush administration. They will hand pick the military judges and any other members of the military who participate in these tribunals to ensure that KSM is convicted.
And the trials by military tribunal will be secret too, IIRC — so there will be no credibility for them in the eyes of the rest of the world.
The Bush Administration would like to compare this to the Nuremburg trials — but there is no comparison. Those trials were public, which was necessary to demonstrate to the world, and most importantly to the German people, that real crimes had been committed and real justice was called for.
These trials are secret not to protect national security — but to cover up evidence or testimony about the illegal use of torture, and to hide by whose authority such torture was done.
This will never be viewed as legitimate justice — certainly not by the Arab world, and not by most nations who are our allies.
precisely – these are, like I say, kangaroo court proceedings.
A farce to the rest of the world.
Just like Saddam’s trial – and another one where a very bad man was getting sympathy due to the joke of a process.
You nailed it. The only reason they have decided to prosecute KSM now is to muddy the waters on the torture debate. Presumably they have had the same “evidence” to prosecute KSM since shortly after his capture, yet waited until now after all the information about Bush’s authorization for torture has come out. It’s beyond shameless.
And it is also a blatant attempt to gain some political advantage for McCain and other Republicans in the Fall. Sadly, there are a great number of Americans who will fall for this ploy.
well said clammyc.
I don’t really care any more what the rest of the world thinks, I just want my constitution back!
as you say, if KSM is guilty of something, then prove it in a normal court under the regular laws. If they can’t do that he’s just a political prisoner.
well i support the death penalty….but if they convict and execute these guys while bush is president its going to suck…i wont support it…i feel like bush wants this blood while he is still president….its disgusting…but who can stop it? congress?
Sadly No. They gave him the opportunity to do this bs when they passed the Military Commissions Act.
And of course, if KSM and the others are convicted with classified evidence in a secret trial, and quickly executed, they will never be able to tell anyone about how they were treated, tortured, or what evidence (or lack thereof) was presented against them.
Bush signed execution orders for a lot of condemned and convicted prisoners back in Texas without even bothering to review their cases — he has never been nearly as interested in pursuing justice as he is in pursuing punishment. I’m not sure he even differentiates between the two concepts — so long as the person affected by his actions is not anyone of value to him.
Sadist is probably putting it kindly….
The actual outcome of an execution GW will make certain happens on another president’s watch; but the drama of the proceedings behind the curtain will be touted across MSM.
Or they may in fact be innocent. Who says they are guilty? Bush/Cheney & company? Why should I beleive them?
If the evidence is not in open court and subject to cross-examination in front of as impartial a jury as is possible, then it is just Bush’s lying word. Is KSM guilty? Or just a fall guy?
They love the Bible. I would give them a Bible passage to ponder,”… and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
It’s that instant gratification thing again. While McCain and the bloodlust hawks will rejoice at the perception they will create with a trial; the world will watch and not only spawn more terrorists to seek retribution but more fencesitters will slide off their fence and feel compassion for the first time for what should be the bad guys. What will be done to sway a campaign will indeed put another nail in the casket holding the promises we made as the last super power.
the outcome of this is a foregone conclusion, this is merely the final act of a tragedy that’s been playing out for 7 years.
this is being done, with malice aforethought, for the effect it will have on the 08 elections. the proceedings will become the definition of a kangaroo court, and will create immense ill will across the ME, and, likely by design, create the raison d’etre for another major terraist attack on american interests somewhere in the world, or maybe even the u.s.
the blow-back, and subsequent fear mongering, will be hyped 24/7 on the msm…and we’ll continue down the bloody path that BushCo™ has mapped out, and the sheeple will eat it up.
this is insanity.
Evidence, what evidence?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021303164_pf.html