Hillary Clinton has gone too far. In a conversation with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Clinton presumed to tell Barack Obama where he should worship his God. She suggested that Reverend Wright is guilty of ‘hate speech’ and compared him to Don Imus.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, in a wide-ranging interview today with Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reporters and editors, said she would have left her church if her pastor made the sort of inflammatory remarks Sen. Barack Obama’s former pastor made.
“He would not have been my pastor,” Clinton said. “You don’t choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend.”
…”You know, I spoke out against Don Imus (who was fired from his radio and television shows after making racially insensitive remarks), saying that hate speech was unacceptable in any setting, and I believe that,” Clinton said. “I just think you have to speak out against that. You certainly have to do that, if not explicitly, then implicitly by getting up and moving.”
Hillary Clinton has a lot of gall to question her opponent’s choice of church considering her own kooky associations. And I think it would be equally repulsive if Barack Obama chose to make an issue of her decision to worship with Sam Brownback and Rick ‘Man on Dog’ Santorum. Obama certainly could question her faith and what her faith suggests about her political commitments. As Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet reported in Mother Jones last fall…
Clinton’s prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or “the Family”), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to “spiritual war” on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship’s only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has “made a fetish of being invisible,” former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God’s plan.
The Fellowship leader is Doug Coe, who Clinton has described as “a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God.”
Coe’s friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). Under Coe’s guidance, Meese has hosted weekly prayer breakfasts for politicians, businesspeople, and diplomats, and Pitts rose from obscurity to head the House Values Action Team, an off-the-record network of religious right groups and members of Congress created by Tom DeLay. The corresponding Senate Values Action Team is guided by another Coe protégé, Brownback, who also claims to have recruited King Abdullah of Jordan into a regular study of Jesus’ teachings.
But Barack Obama has not made Clinton’s kooky right-wing church into an issue on the campaign trail because he understands that a person’s faith is an intensely personal and (hopefully) non-political affair.
Clinton’s decision to question Obama’s choice of church is a bigger problem than her personal tastelessness. Her decision is an arrow aimed directly at the heart of the black community. It is one of the worst acts of public betrayal I have ever seen committed by a Democratic politician in my lifetime, and the most shortsighted and toxic decision I can recall.
White Americans may be surprised by their introduction to the style of black sermonizing in the figure of Rev. Wright, but the black community sees nothing particularly out of place in his rhetoric. This may or may not be a political vulnerability in the general election, but a far greater vulnerability is opened up by telling the black church-going community that Rev. Wright is the equivalent of Don Imus and his ‘nappy-headed hos’. The suggestion that Rev. Wright was engaged in ‘hate speech’ of a kind so loathsome as to require leaving his church is deeply offensive. The black community is feeling besieged by the national spotlight on Rev. Wright and the ensuing white backlash. They are looking around for allies, and find Hillary Clinton piling on and throwing them under the bus.
Clinton is not only presumptuous, she is vicious and divisive and hurtful. She should be defending Barack Obama against unfair attacks, and defending and contextualizing the tradition of black sermonizing. In his speech, Barack Obama sought to educate and bring reconciliation. Clinton’s response is to throw it all back in his face and suggest that there is something wrong with him for attending his church.
If Clinton succeeds in pushing this racial polarization to the point that white people will not vote for Obama, the black community will never, ever, forgive her. This is especially true because she can only win on the backs of the superdelegates.
At this point it is absolutely imperative that the party leaders step in and stop the Clinton campaign from inflicting lasting damage to the relationship between the party and the African-American community. She cannot be allowed to even try to win the nomination this way, let alone actually win it.
This is poison of the worst possible kind. It will destroy the party’s electoral viability more swiftly and more surely than anything I can think of.
I call on Speaker Pelosi, Majority Leader Reid, Chairman Dean, and the other leaders of the party top step in right now and call this contest.
The Clintons absolutely must not be permitted to do this. It must be stopped.
Even worse it turns out that what Wright actually said wasn’t really that objectionable when taken in context. One statement is, as obietom puts it, “sound theology”, the other seems to be a quotation. Looks like the media and the entire “controversy” was fabricated… But who’s behind this hoax?
IMHO the worst of Wright’s stuff was the AIDS invented by the government ridiculousness, which Obietom did not address and I do not see how context is an issue there–if he said it sincerely in a sermon, he is at best a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist (although in my book that is not an automatic disqualifier from being a preacher). That said, I can’t dispute that Clinton’s behavior is no better than that of a Republican.
no more ridiculous than white Pastor Rod Parsley, McCain’s spiritual advisor, who preached only 9 months ago to a predominantly white audience, with blacks, that the government’s grant (of taxpayers’ dollars) to Planned Parenthood is contributing to, and committing genocide of blacks. This clip is part of a political ad by RightWingWatch.org for the super Tuesday vote.
so tell me, if Wright preached that?
and btw, the sourcing on the aids conspiracy is in a reference book on viruses. The book was written by a white doctor, MOPH, Ph.D,MD, a Harvard graduate, whose sourcing is found in tapes at medical libraries. I do recall in the late 1970s early 80s watching CBS evening news when experts offered that HIV virus…”don’t worry about Africa, they’re too many Africans anyway” – that’s a verbatum quote that I’ll take with me when the grim reaper comes this way.
Black history has demonstrated that our govt has not necessarily dealt its black citizens fairly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Study_of_Untreated_Syphilis_in_the_Negro_Male
After Tuskegee, reason would discourage blind faith.
More — http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/hillary_finance_committee_memb.php
In this latest attempt by the Clintons to paint Obama as ‘unelectable’ to the wider electorate, it fails to strike them that at the rate they are burning bridges in the African-American community, Hillary will have absolutely no shot at winning the general election if she makes it somehow. She’s already at a ridiculously low level of support (55%) within the AA community in a general election matchup against McCain (per Rasmussen)…and there’s nowhere for her to go but down with her latest comments.
I don’t even think she cares about winning the election any more. Basically what’s going on here is that she’s trying to destroy Obama so that the Clintonistas can maintain control of the Democratic Party. (How’s that been working for you so far, my fellow Americans?)
In other words, even if Obama wins the nomination and (for the sake of argument) not the general, the Clintons are toast, and she knows it — and so do all the Superdelegates.
Bringing up the Family is the perfect comeback, unfortunately I don’t think Obama wants to gain the appearance of being anti-Christian (or anti-white Christian). It’s up to the rest of us to point that out.
I knew she would go down this road. It was just a matter of time.
I made a similar comment at my brother’s blog.
My best friend Tim grew up in an Irish Catholic family and attended the neighborhood church, when Father Carty would deliver incredibly offensive sermons every Sunday at St. Augustine’s, attacking gays, communists, what-have-you (it was the 1980s).
Tim was no less homophobic than any other teenage boy in the 1980s, which was hardly an enlightened period, but every monday I’d see him in homeroom ranting about what came out of Carty’s mouth. But when I asked him why his family kept going to St. Augustines, he reminded me that it was where his family went to worship, where his aunts, uncles, and grandparents went, where his neighborhood went. It was part of the community. You couldn’t just disown the church.
Clinton’s being really divisive here. It’s pissing me off more every day.
This group is beyond the pale
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525
That’s one hell of a glass house you live in Hillary.
Actually, after reading that article, I’m going to have to disagree vehemently with Booman. Someone needs to make an issue of this, because ideals and philosophies expressed by the Family are profoundly, deeply dangerous. Look at their training practices described in that article. Despite the content of their dogma, they’re teaching aggression, violence, blind submission to authority, self-denial, secrecy… This isn’t private religion. This is a cult with a political agenda, considerable amounts of cash and influence, and violent or coercive methods of maintaining its power.
After reading that article I couldn’t stop shaking. This is not a religion, this a deeply dark cult that is powerful, organized and active. The fact that it’s Harper’s only adds to my alarm.
Please read it
I think it’s time to brush up on our anti-cult tactics.
this entry by BooMan is being replicated, linked to throughout the blogosphere.
It’ll take some time for me be calm. I recant my defense of the Clintons during the impeachment. Absolutely monsters. They’ll regret raising the religion card.
I noticed. It’s really impressive. Good job, Booman!
You’re right on the merits, Egarwaen, but tactically it would be the wrong move. The meme is now boxed into a frame where it’s Rev. Wright vs Doug Coe, which would play as he-said she-said jamboree from now until November. And let’s not forget that “the Family” is backed by many of the most powerful and ruthless figures in Washington (and the world).
However, I agree that the fact that Hillary is alligned with these people underscores the many HUGE questions about who she really is and what she actually stands for.
She’s further ensuring Gramps McCain’s electoral success in the fall. It is curious that she has been hesitant to attack Gramps.
I don’t think it’s curious at all. They’ve got so many campaign staffers in common, it would not surprise me in the least to discover that the Clintons have made a deal of some kind with McCain.
Clinton is shooting for 2012. This means McCain has to win in 2008, and this will be done by Hillary causing as much damage as Clintonly possible.
no she can’t. We have loooong memories. Look at the projected census.
she’ll come to regret this.
I think starting with Bill Clinton needing to move out of Harlem….find new digs (offices).
Andrew Young, Sharpton, Jackson, Powell, Rangell all need to speak out.
however involuntarily. This whole controversy will be so stale come November, this topic will be so yesterday’s news. Additionally, McCain has a huge millstone around his neck – John Haggee, anyone? But don’t think the slime ends here, we’ve only just begun to see the leading edge of the mudslide. If they keep this shit up, Bill will have to move his office out of Harlem.
Hillary has decided that by abandoning the blacks, she would gain credibility with the white racists.Her calculation may go like this:So long as Barack Obama is in the race, the blacks are going to vote for him anyway, so why chase after that vote? After she gets nominated, she will come up with another song and dance about how Democrats should unite to defeat the Republicans.
I hope she is wrong and black voters see through this ploy.
I thought the die-hard racists already had a party: the Republicans.
As usual, the Clintons only want the Republican vote to mean anything.
It worked for her hubby. Sistah Soulja redux. When Edwards dropped out of the race I was mildly for Obama on the basis of his rhetorical abilities, which I believed could do something to offset the overwhelming Republican bias of the media. But apart from that I was ready to be persuaded that Mrs. Clinton is a capable leader. She has shown herself to be frantic, shrill, and as we have seen with respect to her campaign management, incompetent. She also doesn’t know anything about finance or economics, to judge from her recent observations on Greenspan. If she can’t tell a hack from the real thing at her age, she doesn’t deserve to be chief magistrate of this nation.
She’s blowing it big time. Very sad. Hard-working school girl almost makes good. End of story.
You have a point.Throughout their careers, the Clintons have assiduously cultivated the moneyed and the powerful, closely aligning their thinking with the massas.She won the Senate seat from New York with the massive financial support from the Israeli Lobby.That Lobby has soured on the blacks seeing them as potential supporters of the Palestinians.The Iraq war which is an extension of the Israeli war against the Palestinians has found support from Mrs.Clinton,notwithstanding her less than strenuous denials of her vote on the IWR.
Her cozying up to McCain might very weel set the stage for her defection to the Republicans like her mentor,Joe Lieberman,if she does not win the nomination.
…that the Clintons have done a lot of unethical things no church would endorse.
Let’s start with the huge bribe they took from Denise Rich to get her felonious husband Marc pardoned. $600,000, wasn’t it? And how much more have the Riches donated to Bill’s library? We don’t know, nor do we know who else has ponied up to get pardoned by Hillary.
That it was a bribe is not in question, unless you think Don Young, Ted Stevens, Mitch McConnell, and Duke Cunningham didn’t take bribes. Oh, they just accepted a lot of $$ and then used their government jobs to help their donors. Just like the Clintons.
Hillary has taken bribes before, and she will take them again. By hiding the donors to the Clinton Library, she is concealing a roster that might be chockful of hopeful felons.
I think that a quick scan of the members of Clinton’s prayer “Family” might turn up some people with actual connections to David Duke. After all, he did run for Senator from Louisiana a few years back.
Meanwhile, lots of denial in Clinton circles. Just ask one how come she spent eight years in a sex-segregated prayer group. You don’t get much of an answer.
I think that you can gain a better (and for liberal Dems a more nuanced) view of the two candidates by looking at the structure of their spiritual lives. Obama went to a church. That doesn’t mean that he agreed with everything his minister said, or that he kept up with every sermon. To do that is to triangulate when you go to church. Before I stopped going to church I sat through a lot of sermons and I probably agreed at least in some part with most of them.
What does it say about a religious group that segregates by sex? Or that its goal is to influence the powerful? Or that so many of its members in their political lives so little concern about most people but have the same attraction to the rich and powerful?
Clinton supporters imagine their candidate as some kind of liberal feminist and refuse to recognize that she’s not a feminist (or she’d never sponsor the Workplace Religious Freedom abomination) and not liberal at all. I don’t see Obama as very liberal either, but he is not yet part of the long-term hackery among party elders, and as such there is hope.
Clinton is a conservative woman, a practiced politician, who has more in common with Santorum and Brownback and Coburn than with most of her supporters. She’s still a Goldwater Girl. Except that Goldwater was more liberal.
Yes, that would make perfect sense…………….Unless some “leaders of the party” concur with her tactics???
Might it be the height of presumption for us to think that much of the party leadership has the same disdain for her tactics as we do? The longer this is allowed to go on the more you have to wonder just how much internal opposition there really is within the party elite for her scorched earth policies.
Mike is correct.
Boo, you are assuming the ‘leadership’ disagrees with Clinton and wants a ‘scary black man’ as the nominee. She is probably playing to HER base ( rich, white politicians ).
The simplest answer is usual correct. And the simplest answer is that the people who could stop her do not want to stop her because;
nalbar
They don’t want the Bosnia thing to become news. Hell it was buried on page A7894 in today’s LA Times. That story shows how often Clinton lies. She’s repeated that story almost daily since December and now the papers are saying she “misspoke” or “backpedals”. Yeah, she wants to put Wright back into the news because they probably got some bad numbers after Obama’s speech.
The proper response isn’t to hit her back on religion – she wants to keep the topic on religion and away from Bosnia and her lies. The thing to do is hit her even harder with the Bosnia video and lies.
I just posted something similar on my blog.
It’s possible that Mrs. Clinton is trying to provoke Obama into retaliating. I can’t think of any other rationale for her outrageous statements. It loses her more votes than it gains. I’m sure Obama has gamed this out. It was predictable.
Also available in orange.
BooMan, May the Karma Gods bless you eternally for this post. After reading her comments on Wright I’m so livid that I was fumed up to write a diary.
Hillary is a motherfucker. It’s now out in the open. No more guessing. The Clintons are racists. Smiling fucking pretenders they.
Can she be escorted out of the party? Win or loose, don’t know how she can turn up in Denver. We rainbow people are not very diplomatic…. we do have a habit of telling it like it is. We will have to show our disrespect; somehow.
I can take a tiny comfort. It tells me Hillary sees, knows, and at last have accepted that she has, in David Brooks’ words, ‘a five percent chance.’ That’s why she has written off the non-white vote.
Let me roll out my phone banking for PA. It’s an imperative. The Clintons have to be defeated
Ha, as I write NPR is playing the Bosnia lie…all the audio clip…CBS and Clinton on the campaign trail; she was under sniper fire.
It’s Over!
Did you see this? Per Jake Tapper – a DNC official says the only thing she has left is the Tonya Harding option:
“Obama is a victim” posts are quite tiresome.
And Jake Tapper will publish anything to increase ratings – even if it means Obama followers getting all upset about nothing.
No – Hillary won’t break his back – and there is no big mean Clinton Machine to take him down.
But whatever it takes – to cast Obama as the “victim.”
Obama is dividing the Dem Party with his race-baiting and name calling.
Actually, I thought it was funny.
I think you missed that. But you don’t seem to have much of a sense of humor.
Nice try at diverting the discussion. It’s not about Obama the victim, it’s about Clinton’s character. She has proved herself petty, clueless, and ruthless even to the point of providing McCain and the GOP with winning arguments against herself. Her blatant hypocrisy has reached the point where she’s becoming indistinguishable from Bush and McCain.
She has shown that she’ll do anything to win. I think most of us have had enough of that — it’s what the demand for change is all about. Obama is no victim — he’s taking care of business brilliantly. It’s Clinton who is the increasingly pathetic victim of her own blind ambition and inability to understand the consequences of what she says. Her gracelessness is in the spotlight for all the world to see. She deserves compassion for what she is bringing down on herself and her future credibility, but she has shown beyond the slightest doubt that she if fit for neither the nomination nor the White House. Ever.
And don’t forget that the newspaper she delivered her drivel to is not a mistake either, but rather owned by Richard Mellon Scaife…and as a philanderer, is so enamored by the philanderer par excellence, that apparently all is forgiven.
So let’s see that’s
Can loofah boy be far behind?
Obama is race baiting??? Up is down then. Isn’t this the b**ch slap theory of Rove–smear someone then when it’s pointed out you say they’re whining or “playing the victim”.
Beautiful. This is not how Democrats should be talking about each other. Huckabee and McCain showed more dignity about this, unfortunately.
Hillary’s selfish and destructive gamble will fail miserably. The carcass of Billary’s legacy left for the pickings.
A few months ago most of us would have gone along with a Hillary candidacy, but since Iowa her fatal character flaws have become way to obvious.
Clinton plans to go the distance for the next three months.
What will she do when Jeff Sharlet’s book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power is published in May?
I highlighted here on Sunday – Hillary’s Ties to Religious Fundamentalists
– Barbara Ehrenreich, Alternet.
Come May, Emily’s List and Now will be asking some pointed questions, No? Perhaps sooner. This entry by BooMan has received replicating and links through the Blogosphere.
Also, see The Seminal’s take on this.
Only he was one of her pastors–one of many to give her husband religious cover after he was caught getting his knob slobbed by an intern a few years older than his daughter.
If he was so awful, what was he doing in the WH?
The spoiled brat, congenital liar. Since my nephew isn’t using his rattle, maybe I’ll send it to her.
She’s not getting the nomination. Period. I know that functioning in the reality-based world may be a bit difficult for her, but I’m sure she’ll adjust in time.
Sounds good! Hillary is letting voters know she wouldn’t have stayed for 20 years in a church that promoted hatemongering and divisiveness.
She’s got our votes!
“our votes”….
What, are you Sybil?
Can you show me where? I just learned that a couple of my cousins also attend that church, I have family members who’ve worked with Rev. Wright on several occasions and all of them have nothing but good things to say about him.
I know your comment is nothing more than a drive-by and you’ll probably never bothered to answer but exactly when and how has Trinity United Church “promoted hatemongering and divisiveness”?
reviving a long standing tradition:
recommended…bon appetit
Hmmm, sounds good.
If you’re talking about The Family, shouldn’t there be a [/snark] alert? If you’re not talking about the The Family shouldn’t there be an [/ignorant] alert?
Yeah, but she was happy to stay married to a serial philanderer and liar for more than 20 years, and didn’t seem to mind the pubic humiliation he was so happy to bring her way.
Way to go, feminist icon…
Well, that is deliciously saucy, but I doubt if it is marinara. ;^)
Her spiritual mentor preaches absolute feminine obedience and servitude… worse than Huckabee because hidden and loaded with money from secret donors.
Some of us remember Boris Godunov, with the manipulative Jesuit messing around with the succession and usurping the throne. Or Shakespeare’s King John where peace has been achieved, families are getting married to seal the deal… then the archbishop arrives to tear things apart again until John flagellates and humiliates himself before the Pope. Since Church and State both operate best with totalitarian authority, male elders tend to use religious fear to fleece the sheeple and keep them obedient.
Do we need a Clinton groveling to some secret mentor? Then bullying the rest of the world, for that is how bullies work?
NO!
NO MORE CLINTONS!!!
No more dynasties!!!
Ever.
one can only hope that all this will lead to a cathartic epiphany for the demoRAT party, and that at the end of the day, when she’s finally, officially, eliminated, that they’ll be able to put this behind them and move forward towards the real battle in november.
while hopeful, l am not optimistic that this will be the case. they’ve burnt too many bridges now, and there’s no face saving way to retreat with any dignity.
the defining legacy of the clinton era is being writ large by her/their actions and words.
it will be, deservedly, ugly.
Is it OK for Obama to make references to Bill Clinton and Monica?
Apparently so – since he’s done this several times.
But this is a campaign – and we expected he would.
But to ask a general to tell the public Bill Clinton is acting like Joe McCarthy – now that was over the line.
But once again – we expected it from Obama.
Since Rev. Wright was so…helpful to the congenital liar, it seems only fair, given the line of attack.
But hey…if she can enable George Bush while preparing for her coronation, she can certainly do the same for Bill.
As we all know…enabling is what she does best. A feminist icon for the ages.
BTW, how’s that coronation going?
And the sad thing is that so many organizations which claim to carry the torch of feminism believe she is, indeed, such an icon, as do many women (and men) in this party.
She’s really the embodiment of so many of the ugliest stereotypes about women. But excuses are continuously made for it, and instead those who opt for Obama are branded sexists or, worse, traitors to women (especially the younger women). It’s really disgusting.
Again, the basic pitch: “I have a vagina, and my husband is Bill Clinton.” That’s really all there is to her.
She’s really the embodiment of so many of the ugliest stereotypes about women.
Drew,
People need to be making more of her campaign not giving money back to this company:
Clinton Accepts Donations From Firm Accused Of Widespread Sexual Harassment
The federal government has accused the Illinois management consulting firm, International Profit Associates, or IPA, of a brazen pattern of sexual harassment including “sexual assaults,” “degrading anti-female language” and “obscene suggestions.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/29/clinton-accepts-donations_n_89306.html
Surely that doesn’t surprise you, though. Look, women’s rights are only part of her platform when they serve her interests electorally. She’s a fraud, just like Bubba. “We’re there when we need you” and all that.
Josey, what do think about attending sex-segregated prayer circles with the wives of right-wing wackos? Just wondering.
You know, I hate giving money to campaigns for fear I’ll get let down when I find a candidate I like, but I’m donating to Obama for the first time because of this. Enough. I don’t even give a damn about November for now. I don’t merely want to see her defeated, but humiliated. Seeing her drag her fat, spoiled ass onto that stage to concede is what I’m focused on.
What a pig.
Not only will she not be the nominee, I will give GENEROUSLY to her primary opponent.
The congenital liars and their lackeys and sychophants are a cancer that needs to be eradicated.
Creepy developments from the Clintons. What will happen after the election, with one of three senators becoming president and the other two still in the senate? Mrs. Clinton will doubtless get on famously with president McBush. Obama not so much. And how will Obama and Clinton cooperate. The biggest question is how will Clinton get on with the rest of the party if she doesn’t get the nomination, that is, get her way. And imagine her anger if Obama becomes president. Are we seeing the birth of Liarman’s lady counterpart. One way or the other it seems that a lot of bad blood is unavoidable.
She’s out of control. Ends justify the means, and there are no bounds on the means. She needs to be stopped, and soon.
I am seriously wondering if there are not very big money groups behind Clinton; if the effort to sink Obama isn’t bigger than their combined egos (which, it appears, are very big indeed.) I have always thought that McCain was actually a throw-away candidate.
I can’t help but wonder about the views of her pastor. Perhaps he/she is anti-abortion. Perhaps he/she is anti-gay rights. Perhaps they have some other views that would offend her supporters. And if so, how could Hillary possibly stay affiliated with such a congregation?
And by the way – with the following quote:
Does this mean she just threw her own family under the bus?
And don’t forget her unforgivable position on baking cookies!
She’s on a mission from God.
That’s the scary thing: until now, I thought I knew why she was staying in. Pride, ego, determination to set up for a run for 2012… But now it looks like she might be staying in because she believes Jesus has Chosen her for the Presidency, and she’ll win if she just stays in long enough and proves her faith. That’s scary.
that mother jones article is a mother effer.