One thing that last night made clear is that the only viable solution is to propose a joint ticket with Clinton on top, Obama as VP. It’s as clear as day. Okay…I admit it…that’s delusional. But some people are suggesting that Obama should select Clinton as his running mate as a way to mend fences. Anyone who thinks that is a good idea hasn’t really been following the campaign. It hasn’t been a battle between Barack Obama (centrist black man) and Hillary Clinton (centrist white woman). That was the superficial story line where the only difference between them was their identities. If you thought that was what the choice was, you can be forgiven because that’s what the media and more than half the blogosphere told you it was about.
In reality, this was a generational fight. It was a fight between those that came to power during the post-McGovern era and those that aspire to power in the post-Bush era. It was between a party that relied on the white blue collar ethnic vote and a party that relies on majorities from non-whites, non-Christians, and the generation of whites that grew up well integrated with them. It was between a party that came to rely on corporate money and union muscle just to be competitive with Republicans and a party that has learned the new fundraising and social networking skills of the Information Age.
But, above all, it was a fight about leadership. Barack Obama knew better than to rely on the existing infrastructure, created by the blogosphere, to fight back against the Bush administration and the media. We are too stridently partisan to be messengers of a new kind of politics. He had to step around the gatekeepers of the blogosphere, much to their chagrin. Barack Obama’s greatest accomplishment is the organization that he created. He used our tools and his own message. And he won. He could not have won any other way. And that makes him both our greatest representative, and someone who doesn’t really need us at all. All of you should go join up on his website and meet your neighbors that are supporting him, and get organized. For presidential stuff, there is no reason to use the blogosphere at all. Use Obama’s own tools.
However, for downticket races and for media criticism, there is still no substitute for the blogosphere. Last summer I said that we couldn’t really have any effect on the outcome of the primaries and that a farmer in Iowa had more say than we could ever hope to have. Boy, was I wrong! Obama gave all of us the tools to make a difference…in 45 states now. But those tools don’t exist for House and Senate races, and that’s where our focus needs to go at this point.
As for the Clintons, it took a lot of money and a lot of psychic energy to defeat them. There is no way that Obama can betray that effort by inviting them back into the tent. That would make his campaign all about him, rather than all about us. This was a fight for the ideological soul of the party. But the ideology wasn’t so much about health or education policy. It was about how the party is organized, who it really represents, and whether or not it will continue to be beholden to the old lobbyists, interests groups, and consultants, or whether it will become the truly people-powered party that is a necessary predicate for bringing real progressive change.
We have our victory, even if it isn’t quite what we imagined it would be. Now it’s our job to go out and win the November elections all up and down the ticket and change what is possible in Washington.
Okay, the first link is getting redirected to another post by the fools at Confluence. Here’s what you should see when you go there:
Dear SD’s, here’s the only viable solution:
Posted on May 7, 2008 by riverdaughter1.) Propose a joint ticket with Clinton on top, Obama as VP. She’s earned the top spot by capturing all of the big states and swing states. He is much more acceptable as a VP than she is. She is more qualified and experienced. You can’t afford to lose her supporters no matter how much you try to talk yourselves out of it, The AA community will come around because Barry can get experience in the executive branch, which he desperately needs, and run as her successor in 2016. They just want to see him get there. Why not do it in stages?
2.) Get the Rules and bylaws committee to waive the penalty on FL and MI so that Clinton gets the delegates she needs. You’re going to have to do this anyway. Ok, have Obama do this at a sunlit tableau surrounded by grateful Floridians and Wolverines. Just get on with it already.
3.) Negotiate the deal before the end of the primary season and before anyone hits the magic number, which is illegitimate without Florida and Michigan. If you wait until someone hits it, the possibility of getting the ticket you need starts to approach a limit of minus infinity.
4.) Fire Howard Dean and Donna Brazile ASAP.
I hate the idea of a unity ticket but that’s the only way I will vote for Obama this year- is if he is VP. Think about it because there are some majorly pissed off members of the “old coalition” out there who you are going to lose shortly.
I’m bumping this up from the comments. I know this person is a REAL Republican and this is what she has to say about the proposal above:
Riverdaughter – you know I’m the Republican lurker here. I was just talking to the hubby last night about what a debacle the primary has been with Michigan and Florida. To ignore people’s votes is just wrong. To say “Florida can’t have it’s primary before …” is just wrong. The election needs to be controlled by the will of the people, not the DNC chairman (and that’s what it will come down to). Hillary deserves top billing on the Democratic Ticket and it needs to be done soon. People like me will then have time to compare McCain and Clinton on the issues and make their objective opinion.
There you go. It’s one but I’ll betcha there are others.
I thought the Obama campaign was extremely well-organized here in my corner of PA, and it was great to see the bottom-up approach be so effective this campaign season. And even better, the volunteers during the primary were looking forward to doing it again for November, even the first-timers.
BTW, I find it highly amusing that confluence/riverdaughter is redirecting your link to a different post about the new new magic delegate number for the nomination…talk about moving the goal posts out of the stadium.
I’m hearing and reading all sorts of stuff about the ticket.
I’m reading a lot about Gore on the ticket as the Christ-like, feel-good/rally-around-the-compromise figure. Just stoopid. And the Obama/Clinton ‘Dream Ticket’ scenario would make Obama look like… well, like a craven idiot. She’s a liablity, not an asset. (And let’s just not speak of a Clinton/Obama ticket ever again. Has she earned the top of the ticket?)
Many of the the Hillary people haven’t made it around the bend with the rest of us, though. To wit:
The plain-damn scary ‘Big Tent Democrat’ @ Talk Left:
“My own view is she should run her campaign against John McCain. She will win West Virginia and Kentucky by huge margins.”
Mr. Armstrong @ MyDD:
The only thing that’s gonna get Hillary off of this is the money (or lack of it), I’m convinced; not George McGovern, not Wesley Clark. She and Bill will listen to them (though not necessarily politely), but she’s just too power hungry. She’s got the fever.
Booman Tribune ~ A Progressive Community
I think you misunderstand both Obama and the Vice Presidency. Firstly, you have already said that Obama is his own man, he doesn’t need the blogosphere. He is betraying no one by attempting to heal the rift between the old and the new Democratic parties. That is how you achieve power – by making compromises where you have to, and change where you can. Kennedy appointed Lyndon Johnson as his VP even though he was anathema to everything he stood for.
Secondly, appointing Clinton as VP nominee is a good way of preventing her from being a problem – its better to have her inside the tent pissing out, rather than the other way around. “Keep your friends close to you, and your enemies even closer…”
Putting her on the ticket is all about healing a rift – not about sharing power. Imagining that Hilary somehow “deserves the top spot on the ticket” – now that is seriously delusional.
Unfortunately, I see no evidence that if Clinton were inside the tent that she still wouldn’t be pissing inside the tent.
a hearty amen. who needs a Judas?
Kennedy didn’t appoint Lyndon because he was his opponent. He appointed him solely to appeal to the south.
This is a different race. Hillary as VP doesn’t buy us anything, and costs us much.
Moreover, Hillary Clinton is not the only woman in the world, not the only candidate that is appealing to older voters, and not the only person that appeals to Joe Six-Pack. If Obama wants to pick a running mate that helps him with those demographics, he has plenty of choices.
All excellent points!
And none of them have the Clinton Mafia following them around.
Right on point.
Thank you.
The depth of Hillary hate is truly delusional.
AG
I don’t think it’s delusional at all. She earned every last scintilla of it.
I agree with something David Gergen said a few months ago…Obama would need a food taster if he picked Hillary as VP.
NO.WAY.IN.HELL.
Think JFK and LBJ. The permanent government would so much more prefer Clinton than Obama. No parades with the roof off the Presidential limousine either.
Good post. I suspect that those older generational voters who wouldn’t vote for Obama without Clinton won’t necessarily be pulled to Obama with Clinton as Veep. I think that Clinton’s high negatives are such that being on a ticket would turn off more independents and moderate Republicans attracted to Obama than disaffected women and oldsters who would vote for a ticket with Hillary as a Veep.
The riverdaughters of the world will just have to figure out in six months if their faux hate of Obama for faux reasons trumps four years of McCain.
all those people suggesting/proposing a unity ticket with Clinton on top or an Obama-Clinton ticket misses the entire phenomenon of the past year.
The Obama movement is heavily invested and empowered by people from a broad spectrum of American society. All 1.5 million donors plus volunteers sitting at home phone banking, organizing.
Hillary Clinton on the ticket !- top, bottom or sideways – would be a betrayal. If Clinton gets anywhere near this ticket the Democratic Party will be consigned to the wilderness for decades.
These empowered people are saying goodbye to the old politics; political expediency of unprincipled actions. The Clintons embraced lying Rovian politics; she fanned innuendo – when asked is Obama a muslim, she could not answer such a direct question; she embraced Richard Scaife, Limbaugh, VWRC, Kristol, Buchanan and Ferraro – all aimed at destroying a fellow party member. Talk about a Judas.
Last night Andrew Sullivan had this observations:
Amen to this. Obama has beaten the most powerful machine in decades in the Clinton juggernaut, but now he has to beat McCain.
He can and will. McCain’s got nothing.
And the most amazing thing about Obama’s campaign is he did it against the Clinton machine. They started off with all the advantages: name recognition, money, friends in high places, endorsements, the carefully tended aura of inevitablity, and yes, skin color when it comes right down to it. And yet this black man with the funny name managed to pull off one of the biggest upsets since slings and stones were in vogue, and he did it in spite of the goalposts being changed on a regular basis.
How did he do it? Well, while the Clintons were changing the goalposts and working on revisions to the rules, he changed the game.
Nice. And a very nice punch line, Omir.
Thanks. It just occurred to me while I was typing that comment, that’s that what had happened. And FSM willing, we’re never going back to playing the old game again.
What this means:
Some people are really bad losers.
Let’s not give this inanity any attention, as it deserves NONE.
by calling for a unity ticket a la Andrew Sullivan.
One reason why Obama has succeeded so utterly is because of the impression that he is nothing at all like the Clintons.
To bring her in is like making Cheney Vice President all over again for either prospective nominee. She’ll want to run the show. Plus, she’s too right-wing, due to her sucking up to the likes of Faux and Scaife.
It would be a disaster.
Let Obama get someone like Wesley Clark or Sibelius, Napolitano or Webb. ANY. . . ONE. . . BUT. . . HILLARY. . . CLINTON.
The whole point of the post is how wrongheaded and pointless adding Clinton to the ticket would be.
Despite the cultural and ideological battles, I also think that Clinton on Obama’s ticket in places he did +20pts. in would really harm him.
I just hope that the PTB don’t try to force Clinton on him.
I thought so too until I saw the invisible <snark> tags around that recommendation.
Agreed – but he was just being sarcastic!
I like Richardson or any of the ones you’ve named. I think I like Richardson best though because he showed a lot of political courage coming to Obama’s side when he was not a sure thing.
but I didn’t see those snark lines when I read them.
Too bad the Borg Queen is still in the race, though.
These people really do believe that if Obama hits 2025 without FL or MI then it’s not fair.
Yet…FL and MI broke the rules that Clinton signed off on and it’s fair to want to bend the rules to get them seated.
However…I’m positive that if Clinton got a majority of the 2025 number on Super Tuesday as planned, then FL and MI wouldn’t have mattered and I’m sure we wouldn’t have heard a peep out of PA, WV or KY.
The only VP spot I can see Hillary accepting is McCain’s. Then we could really decide whether America is progressive or regressive.
Oops, I wasn’t gonna talk about this anymore… But it would be fun to watch everyone go ape over it. Not to mention how smoothly Barack handles it.
Now that would be scary – as in the Empire strikes back…
ya know, this morning I was feeling badly for the clinton supporters. it’s tough to lose, especially in a hard-fought race like this.
Then I started seeing all this “Obama made it a racist campaign” and my sympathy again turned into derision and scorn.
And that garbage riverdaughter dredged up on her “Guam” post is vile.
Wow. A nut case. Just like Her Majesty.
Just like Her “post-rational” Majesty. 😉 I love Rachel Maddow for that!
Rachel just reveals her hideous aversion to ovaries.
Or something.
She’s on CNN right now saying she’s in it until the White House.
Nothing has changed in her universe of magical thinking. She will never quit. She will never go away. If she is denied the top spot, she will take Obama down with her and run again in 2012.
Don’t kid yourselves. Nothing has changed.
Nope. Obama can have the nomination when he rips it from her cold (un)dead hands.
You know, what bothers me the most about Hillary is the fact that she figures she can still win in November no matter how much damage she does to Obama in her effort to win.
Which means the Hillary camp honestly believes it doesn’t need Obama voters at all to win, particularly African-American voters like myself or younger voters.
So if I’m not needed by Clinton and not wanted by McCain, why should I bother voting?
What has changed is that Punditland recognized it was over last night. It’s going to be hard for all of them to forget that they buried Clinton last night. I suspect that we’ll start seeing the SDs coming out of hiding in numbers now.
It will be curious. If Clinton keeps attacking Obama, then everything negative that people have presumed of her intentions post-March are true. If she continues to run, but is running against McCain, then she’s taking her last lap, knowing that it’s over.
But she knows that it’s over. We know that she knows that it’s over. The punditocracy knows that it’s over and last night said that it’s over. Even Big Top Democrat knows that it’s over. Okay, Jeralyn doesn’t know that it’s over, but most people know that it’s over.
Because it’s over.
I haven’t lurked there much over the last few months but I hopped over to Taylor Marsh’s site earlier. She seems to be having a little rant, which I guess makes some sense given how things have played out. But she did say something peculiar which I don’t quite understand. She lays a little groundwork first.
Here is where she loses me.
Her stated raison d’être is to make sure John McCain does not get elected. But as for supporting the Democratic nominee, when it is Obama, “There is no way I can ethically or in good conscience turn 180 degrees to start touting him”. Just how in the hell do you rationally square those contradictory statements? Borrow Bush’s magic wand? I kind of assumed there was probably a modest contingent of supposed-Democrats out there who would not vote for Obama if he were the nominee. She is saying she is a fighter for Democratic causes, yet will not support Obama as the nominee. Ergo, by that statement, Obama must not support Democratic causes. For someone of her prominence to outright reject the Democratic nominee while claiming to be “a fighter for Democratic and progressive causes” is just plain bat-shit insane! As much as I do not want Hillary to be the nominee, I would never, in my wildest dreams, ever consider either not voting for the Democrat (even if it was Clinton) or voting for McCain.
How can anyone who claims to be a progressive and a Democrat allow themselves the possibility of being complicit in the election of McCain by their seething hatred over the results of primary voting? I hear all this talk about the Hillary-hate exhibited by Obama supporters. But I’ve got to say that Taylor’s comments just plain take the cake. Hillary hate indeed!
Et tu, Brute?
well, she’s right. She can’t just do a 180 and start touting him or she’d lose all her credibility.
Oh, wait…
Viola!
It might be that she unwittingly revealed her most pressing concern in all of this.
Those inconvenient truths sometimes have a way of slipping out when you’re in a full blown rant.
What is the deadline for Hillary getting herself on the ballot as an independent in the Fall?
I’m utterly convinced that nothing will stop her in her determination to get back into the White House, including abandoning her party because “she’s the most viable candidate and most qualified for the office”
Hillary would do everything to sabatoge Obama.
And why should her racist, lying, backstabbing campaign get rewarded.
But if you must abuse, don’t impinge.
Booman is spot on with his analysis. In my mind Obama won this race in South Carolina, Virginia and Wisconsin. He out worked and out hustled to defeat the Clinton Democratic machine. He beat the machine but did not knock it out, and thus why this extra long process has transpired.
This whole FL/MI whining is a complete sham. Clinton agreed to the rules before the game and Harold Ickes sanctioned them. Terry McCauliffe is on the record to agreeing of stripping them of delegates. The Republican party stripped delegates from those 2 states too.
To go around and want to change them solely now because she is losing is pure dishonesty. If Florida and Michigan were half full of blacks, I wonder if we would hear a peep from the Clinton surrogates/fans in this scenario?
They want to do overs because they think they can get more delegates not because the genuinely care about the voters of those states. PLEASE!
It sucks to lose in anything, especially when you are so passionate and invested in it. I campaigned for Bill Bradley in college at UIowa and did not like Al Gore but voted for Gore. I supported Howard Dean early on because I personally witnessed John Kerry treat his Senate staff like crap but I voted for Kerry.
Time Heals all wounds in politics. I just feel excited to vote FOR/support a candidate instead of mainly against electing the another one. Maybe this is what those 28% of Americans who still support GW feel like.
As for VP, I have heard Webb and Corzine. The women govs of AZ and KS would work too. No chance he picks HRC and it would be counter productive to his image/message.
by Booman. What do you think? Spring 2009 release?
You’ve had the most insight and been correct more than anyone else in the Blogospehere. When do we get to see you profoundly imparting profound wisdom on CNN or MSNBC?
Again Booman your reasoning seems spot on to me. My biggest dislike for Hillary has been the company she keeps. They all need to take a hike and she needs to get back to doing the job she was elected to do.