Since BooMan asked, I suppose I should provide something in the way of an answer. If you’ve ever heard Barack Obama’s standard stump speech, you’ve heard him say something about ending the mindset that took us to war. One could be forgiven if today’s statement from Obama on the Fisa bill made one question whether or not he really knows what that mindset looks like.
I know what that mindset looks like. It looks like this
The negotiations underscored the political calculation made by many Democrats who were fearful that Republicans would cast them as soft on terrorism during an election year.
Fascinating. What is the thinking here? That if we break down and give them everything they want, this one last time, that they will finally be satisfied? Strength through capitulation? That worked out so well in 2002.
Back to BooMan’s question. He’s right, I’m not in the mood for pandas. I think a better meditation on the slack jawed horror that so many of us are feeling tonight might come from the words of Lincoln’s Cooper Union Address.
The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.
These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly – done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated – we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas’ new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.
Behave like Republicans. Vote to legitimize tyranny and lawlessness. Capitulate to every demand, no matter how unreasonable, and they will not be satisfied. They will never be satisfied. Not until the whole atmosphere is disinfected from the taint of liberty, justice and equality. Dipshits.
Well, that was fun. Back to my multi year hiatus.
Booman has the right mindset, in my own mind.
However, Nature will take her course. I’m really looking forward to it.
Well, here’s the thing….I lump them all together in that gelatinous mass called “The Government”. They’re killing Americans, literally on the battlefields and financially here at home. They never seem to grasp the idea that they need us. They need us to fight their wars, fuel their economy, donate to their campaigns and vote for them.
There’s a saying in Haiti: “A dog is just a dog until he looks at you. Then he’s Mr. Dog.”
We are all the dogs that keep getting kicked. Don’t they realize that, sooner or later, that kicked dog will bite them in the ass?
How can we be Mr. Dog?
when does the dog have enough and bite back?
4.00 plus gasoline; supermarket prices going through the moon; food kitchens running out of food; 40 million without health coverage;- more?
I otta tell ya, if you are waiting for the o man to lead us out of the wilderness, like they say in brooklyn- fugeddabowtit!
one big goddamned lump!
“It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.”
Repeated elsewhere by me:
He doesn’t say he will work “to try” to remove, but “work…to remove…”
I read it all, but this seems to be irking too many folks. I make reading mistakes all the time; I’ve tried to slow down and chew the words.
I see this as meaning “to remove it” and pass the approved bill forward.
Dinner’s ready!
but stands little chance of actually passing an amendment to do that. It may be impossible.
it was just a weazle-out.
This has been a shameful day for the Democratic Party.
off topic but just had to. Has anyone seen the video of bush leaving airforce 1 in the carolinas today? Watch it if you get the chance- a moment of sheer delight!
Olbermann had it on his show. He waved to some regular folks watching him from behind a fenced area. They wouldn’t even acknowledge him. He waved again. Still no response.
What? Little baby boy Booman can’t speak for himself. For months we’ve been told how anything Clinton did that was political was anathema. Obama was our man.
First test of his progressive bona fides and Obama takes a powder. And Booman, I’ll stay home rather than vote for Hilary, has to collect himself to determine how he’s going to play this for his masses.
What a joke. Well, I’ll stay home rather than vote for a a man who has, from the beginning, used Republican talking points to show how different he is.
Should I care about the Supreme Court nominees? Booman didn’t.
This was the second test of Obama’s bona fides. The first was his appearance before AIPAC the day after he clinched the nomination. I wrote about that here: Obama is the new Kerry.
Interestingly, John Dean on Countdown tonight was holding out hope that since the “Protect America Act” removes the phone companies from civil but not criminal jeopardy, it is possible that Obama is cleverly waiting and will use that “oversight” in that bill to go after the phone companies with criminal prosecutions after he is elected president. That’s one of the most absurd suggestions I’ve ever heard on Countdown.
Fucking, please. I speak for myself. I took the opportunity presented to me by a moment of extreme anger to do so. Is it so fucking hard to respond to what I wrote?
Obama is running for President of the US. Not king of the blogoshere.
How about you elect a Dem President. And let him do his thing.
You think he will be spying on you. You are high.
So should we elect McCain. Is that what you are asking. Deal with reality. This is an issue 98% of America really doesn’t give a rat’s ass about.
Want to be President. Then run. Till then, work with the best candidate we had in a helluva long time.
Dennis Kucinich got 2% of the vote. Ralph Nader will get the same.
So your choice is Obama or McCain. And if you doubt Obama after all you have seen. I feel sorry for you. And we will move on without you. Enjoy spending election day with Mike Gravel and five other people.
Do you think the people reading this site don’t understand the choices we face? Do you think I don’t understand? Do you really think we’re so stupid as to need your patronizing bullshit in order to understand the gravity of our choice in November?
Do you think that I undermine my party’s nominee by strenuously disagreeing with the position he took a few hours ago?
On a blog?
On a fucking blog?
Seriously, get some fucking perspective.
Until I’m informed otherwise, I think I still have the right to give shit about my Fourth Amendment rights. Until I’m informed otherwise, I think I still have the right to give shit about a law that would, in effect, shield the executive branch from accountability for a very specific breach of the law.
But, whatever. Let’s not get abstract on your stupid ass.
Even though you’re a fucking moron, I still feel as though it’s incumbent on me to protest against any abridgment of your right to be secure in your person, house, paper, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.
That probably doesn’t make sense to you. Pity.
Since you did me the favor of feeling sorry for me, I’m trying real hard to feel sorry for you.
It isn’t working. Go fuck yourself.
Oh, do forgive me. I’m not sure I said you don’t speak for yourself; I think my implication was that Booman, after the last several months, can’t speak for himself. Don’t know what gave me that impression…I don’t know, something like:
“Since BooMan asked, I suppose I should provide something in the way of an answer…”
With regard to what you wrote, I have nothing to say other than I agree with it all. Of course, one does wonder why you need to quote Lincoln to indicate something that has been patently obvious to all of us for the last 40 years, that is, those of us who didn’t live in Lincoln’ time.
The premise you offer, however, seems to have escaped your preferred candidate, who has offered up his birth certificate and has decided he will sacrifice the netroots to indicate how macho he is. At least twice, he has decided he will give in to placate the opposition, which seems totally to oppose your point.
So, remind me again, why we should vote for Obama, or why he was the better Democratic candidate?
I find it ironic that we haven’t even made it to the convention, and Obama has already showed what a sham he is. But we wouldn’t want to have one of those DLC types, from which Obama has magically distanced himself.
This site has existed for some time now. I used to have something to do with it.
I tend to think BooMan was just poking a little fun at me and trying to rile up some people who may have enjoyed some of my posts from way back when. When I wrote “Since BooMan asked, I suppose I should provide something in the way of an answer,” I was just poking a little bit back. Don’t read into it. It was just some shit between friends.
“Of course, one does wonder why you need to quote Lincoln to indicate something that has been patently obvious to all of us for the last 40 years”
One does wonder why I would need to quote Lincoln to indicate something so obvious to all of us. A good point. It’s interesting that something so clear has been rendered, through some strange magic, opaque to all of the celebrated pundits and all of the well paid Democratic strategists.
I have no answer other that to write that Lincoln said it well. Why not use his words when they fit situation?
“The premise you offer, however, seems to have escaped your preferred candidate, who has offered up his birth certificate and has decided he will sacrifice the netroots to indicate how macho he is. At least twice, he has decided he will give in to placate the opposition, which seems totally to oppose your point.”
Huh? Do you know me? Considering how your comment began, that would surprise me. Nevertheless, if you do, tell me the story about how the panda posts came about. It’s actually relevant to the issue at hand. I’m interested in your take on it. Maybe I should start doing them again. Let me know.
So, remind me again, why we should vote for Obama
Seriously, not my job. The dude has plenty of money, so maybe he’ll send some outreach workers your way. If not, send him an email asking for a sales pitch. I try to avoid that sort of shit myself, but if you’re into that kind of thing, knock yourself out.
“What is the thinking here? That if we break down and give them everything they want, this one last time, that they will finally be satisfied? Strength through capitulation?”
Paging Neville Chamberlain!
Who wants what?
Obama wants this spying power? The Repubs are nearly unanimous in wanting to GIVE Obama spying this spying power?
Does someone see something wrong in this? How come everyone’s analysis keeps avoiding the obvious? Who actually gets the power? What have they been doing to lobby for that power?
Fudgelady, who is going to be satisfied? Who gets the power? Who has the power to push this legislation through?
Hey Bob?
We get it now. Thanks for the teachable moment.
Oh, Skeeters, I don’t disagree with you. Of course you couldn’t prove your point by quoting any of the discourse on this site for the last three months. Booman, as in Booman Tribune, stated that he would stay home rather than vote for Clinton. If he can make that kind of a statement, why can’t I, and why lecture me?
I haven’t been here long enough to remember the panda days, but you make a great point. Compromising with these shitbag Republicans will never placate them, no matter how much we sell our souls. Even Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller, at the end of the day, would never get serious consideration for a Republican ticket. They think they are so loved by the right wing. But they are tools, chumps, laughingstock, Judases. No one respects them.
The entire Democratic leadership failed us today. I’m still shocked by it. I thought we won this battle a few months ago, and there was absolutely no blowback. We WON. Then Hoyer cooks up this capitulation and the leadership rushes it through to passage? I mean, what the fuck?
And then Obama says, shit, he might as well support it because it’s better than some previous bill. How is this better? The Protect America Act didn’t provide telecoms with immunity!
Very disappointed today. I know a President Obama would veto this bill, but candidate Obama is supporting it. I’m still shocked at the spinelessness and cowardice of Democrats, even after they won a landslide in 2006 and even with Bush at 25%. Unbelievable.
existenz: “I’m still shocked at the spinelessness and cowardice of Democrats, even after they won a landslide in 2006 and even with Bush at 25%. Unbelievable.”
Cowardice in the face of whom? Bush, who has no power among the voters, or the Republicans, who are heading towards the biggest drubbing in decades?
Who wins with the passage of this bill? A little structural analysis here. Qui bono? Why is everyone incapable of pointing to the obvious?