Yes, you read my title correctly. Today’s New York Times includes an op-ed piece by Benny Morris, a Professor of Middle Eastern history at Ben Gurion University. He claims Israel will most certainly attack Iran within the next 4 to 7 months, and if conventional weapons are unsuccessful to knock out Iran’s nuclear program, than Israel will escalate to the use of nuclear weapons.
By all accounts Professor Morris is no Likudist or neoconservative stalking horse, but a leading figure among Israel’s “New Historians” movement which has portrayed the history of the creation of Israel and the genesis of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in terms traditional Israeli historians deem revisionist and flawed because it claims to present a more balanced view of the history of the Palestinian conflict, one at odds with the traditional Israeli narrative of the “Palestinian Exodus” from Israel on the eve of the 1948 war.
All this as context for what is a deeply disturbing essay by Professor Morris, for his concerns cannot be brushed aside lightly as the ravings of a right wing Israeli figure, or as propaganda from someone connected to the current Israeli government. If accurate, the next President of the United States will face the beginning of his first term in office with a Middle East in flames with all that portends for the world. Here’s Professor Morris in his own stark words describing the current situation as he sees it:
ISRAEL will almost surely attack Iran’s nuclear sites in the next four to seven months — and the leaders in Washington and even Tehran should hope that the attack will be successful enough to cause at least a significant delay in the Iranian production schedule, if not complete destruction, of that country’s nuclear program. Because if the attack fails, the Middle East will almost certainly face a nuclear war — either through a subsequent pre-emptive Israeli nuclear strike or a nuclear exchange shortly after Iran gets the bomb. […]
But should Israel’s conventional assault fail to significantly harm or stall the Iranian program, a ratcheting up of the Iranian-Israeli conflict to a nuclear level will most likely follow. Every intelligence agency in the world believes the Iranian program is geared toward making weapons, not to the peaceful applications of nuclear power. And, despite the current talk of additional economic sanctions, everyone knows that such measures have so far led nowhere and are unlikely to be applied with sufficient scope to cause Iran real pain, given Russia’s and China’s continued recalcitrance and Western Europe’s (and America’s) ambivalence in behavior, if not in rhetoric. Western intelligence agencies agree that Iran will reach the “point of no return” in acquiring the capacity to produce nuclear weapons in one to four years. […]
Nonetheless, Israel, believing that its very existence is at stake — and this is a feeling shared by most Israelis across the political spectrum — will certainly make the effort. Israel’s leaders, from Prime Minister Ehud Olmert down, have all explicitly stated that an Iranian bomb means Israel’s destruction; Iran will not be allowed to get the bomb.
The best outcome will be that an Israeli conventional strike, whether failed or not — and, given the Tehran regime’s totalitarian grip, it may not be immediately clear how much damage the Israeli assault has caused — would persuade the Iranians to halt their nuclear program, or at least persuade the Western powers to significantly increase the diplomatic and economic pressure on Iran.
But the more likely result is that the international community will continue to do nothing effective and that Iran will speed up its efforts to produce the bomb that can destroy Israel. The Iranians will also likely retaliate by attacking Israel’s cities with ballistic missiles (possibly topped with chemical or biological warheads); by prodding its local clients, Hezbollah and Hamas, to unleash their own armories against Israel; and by activating international Muslim terrorist networks against Israeli and Jewish — and possibly American — targets worldwide (though the Iranians may at the last moment be wary of provoking American military involvement).
Such a situation would confront Israeli leaders with two agonizing, dismal choices. One is to allow the Iranians to acquire the bomb and hope for the best — meaning a nuclear standoff, with the prospect of mutual assured destruction preventing the Iranians from actually using the weapon. The other would be to use the Iranian counterstrikes as an excuse to escalate and use the only means available that will actually destroy the Iranian nuclear project: Israel’s own nuclear arsenal.
If this is the mindset of even a “revisionist” Israeli historian, a man who considers himself a member of the Israel’s Left, than we are in a far more serious situation than previously thought. Perhaps Morris’ account is mere bluster and sabre rattling. Perhaps, he is acting on behalf of those in Israel who desire to coerce the Bush administration into an attack on Iran. Perhaps. And perhaps the Times is allowing its Op-Ed pages to be used to further that propaganda effort. But we also have to consider that what Professor Morris is describing is an accurate assessment of Israel’s intentions, and the mindset of a majority of its people regarding Iran.
Personally, I do not feel that Iran is as close to achieving a nuclear weapon as Professor Morris contends. Nor do I accept his statements that most “Western intelligence agencies” agree Iran will “pass the point of no return” within 1 to 4 years. Indeed, the last National Intelligence Assessment issued regarding Iran indicated that they abandoned their nuclear weapons program in 2003, and the head of the IAEA, Mohammed ElBaradei, has explicitly stated that his organization’s inspectors have seen no evidence of any current nuclear weapons program, and that he sees no military solution to the concerns that the Western powers and Israel have regarding Iran’s nuclear program. Any attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities would be a “disaster” in his view.
Yet here we have a prominent member of the Israeli Left telling us that war between Iran and Israel is inevitable in the pages of the New York Times. One could hardly expect a more disheartening assessment of Israel’s aggressive intentions toward Iran if this op-ed had been written by Prime Minister Olmert or his Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, who last week publicly stated that:
“Israel is the strongest country in the region and has proved in the past that it doesn’t hesitate to act when its vital security interests are at stake.”
His comment was an apparent allusion to Israel’s daring 1981 airstrike that destroyed Iraq’s unfinished nuclear reactor. Several top Israelis have publicly argued for a similar strike to destroy Iran’s budding nuclear ambitions before the country develops a nuclear arsenal.
Israel’s military sent warplanes over the eastern Mediterranean for a large military exercise in June that U.S. officials described as a possible rehearsal for a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities.
Barak, as you may recall, is the former Prime Minister of Israel during the last years of President Clinton;s second term, and the head of Israel’s Labor Party. In this context, one can assume that prominent members of both the Left and the Right on the Israeli political spectrum are committed to war with Iran should the US fail to act. And so long as George Bush is President, we can assume that the United States government will do nothing to stop an Israeli air and missile strike against Iran, even if it now appears less likely that US military forces will be given that task by the Bush administration. Indeed, Bush has recently indicated he supports any possible military action which Israel might choose to take with respect to Iran:
President George W Bush has told the Israeli government that he may be prepared to approve a future military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities if negotiations with Tehran break down, according to a senior Pentagon official.
Despite the opposition of his own generals and widespread scepticism that America is ready to risk the military, political and economic consequences of an airborne strike on Iran, the president has given an “amber light” to an Israeli plan to attack Iran’s main nuclear sites with long-range bombing sorties, the official told The Sunday Times.
“Amber means get on with your preparations, stand by for immediate attack and tell us when you’re ready,” the official said. But the Israelis have also been told that they can expect no help from American forces and will not be able to use US military bases in Iraq for logistical support.
If you get the sense that Israel and the Bush administration are playing with fire, you wouldn’t be the only one. Doubtless, domestic political considerations may have something to do with Bush’s posturing. The Republican candidate to replace him as President, and the one most likely to continue Bush;s own policies in the Middle East, John McCain, is trailing Barack Obama in the national polls, and his candidacy is not enthusiastically supported by many Republicans. The threat of another military crisis in the Middle East could change that dynamic, however, as McCain’s only strength from a political standpoint, his former military exoerience is still perceived by a plurality of the American public as making him more qualified than Obama for the role of Commander-in-Chief of America’s armed forces.
As for Israel’s current government, they rightly perceive that a President Obama would be much less likely to support independent military action against Israel, at least not until direct negotiations with Iran and the United States had proved futile and there was clear evidence that Iran was nearing the compoletion of a nuclear weapon. Even then, the appetite of many in America as to Iran’s acquisition of a small nuclear arsenal can perhaps best be summed up by the views expressed by former CENTCOM commander General John Abizaid:
“I believe that we have the power to deter Iran, should it become nuclear,” he said, referring to the theory that Iran would not risk a catastrophic retaliatory strike by using a nuclear weapon against the United States.
“There are ways to live with a nuclear Iran,” Abizaid said in remarks at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank. “Let’s face it, we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we’ve lived with a nuclear China, and we’re living with (other) nuclear powers as well.”
The current Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, expressed similar comments at his confirmation hearing before the Senate when he stated under questioning from Senator Graham (R-SC) that he believed Iran would not use any nuclear weapons it acquired to attack Israel:
Asked by Senator Lindsey Graham if he believed that Iran would consider using nuclear weapons against Israel, he replied:
“I don’t know that they would do that, Senator. … And I think that, while they are certainly pressing, in my opinion, for nuclear capability, I think that they would see it in the first instance as a deterrent. They are surrounded by powers with nuclear weapons: Pakistan to their east, the Russians to the north, the Israelis to the west and us in the Persian Gulf.”
Unfortunately, there is no clear sign that Gates’ views dominate the current debate within the White House. And if there is one thing we’ve learned from enduring this incompetent fool of a “Decider” these last 7and 1/2 years, it is this: he prefers military action to diplomacy. At the moment there are small signs that the Bush administration is leaning toward increasing Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s pursuit of a diplomatic settlement with Iran over the Iranian nuclear program. However, I wouldn’t trust this President to carry through with this new found affection for diplomacy. When push comes to shove, I see him as more likely to give Israel it’s long awaited “green light” to attack Iran before the end of this year. To assume otherwise is a fool’s hope, at best.
And if Israelis are in a panic over Iran they can blame their leadership.
Plain fearmongering.
So why is the NY Times publishing this?
Imho, this article is placed by some who have a lot of bucks riding on higher oil.
Without the U.S. green light and physical help, I don’t think Israel is in any position to attack Iran.
Israel would be declared a pariah state with Iran getting help from Russia and China. Bet on it.
Israel, with 200 nuclear weapons, can’t mount a plausible argument that their existence is threatened. Any attack within the next 6 months would be stepping in their own poop.
In light of developments announced two days ago – the current talks – includes the U.S. face-to-face – are sanctioned by Bush, Rice and Cheney:
Condi’s Coup, How the Neocons lost the Argument over Iran and the North Korean model it would be undesirable for an attack unless Israel has a death wish – to stand alone in the world and or to bring about its total destruction.
Israel has been told by JCS Adm. Mullen that they do not have a green light from the U.S.
More here: Bush and Iran needs a deal
It’s a test of U.S. Flexibility towards Iran
Israel’s propaganda machine should just STFU or pay for my fill-ups at the gas pump. Saber-rattling overdone.
Listening to all the happytalk about the US-Iran meetings all of a sudden I’m thinking this article (and no doubt many more to come) is done at the behest of the Bush administration. It’s designed to ratchet the pressure on Iran and, later, when the talks are spun as “successful”, make Bush look like some kind of hero for averting a nuclear war in the ME. And to justify his total flipflop on negotiating with the axis of evil tearisists.
No. (the talks) it’s designed to get the price of oil down. ALl this Iran war talk is contributing to financial and economic meltdown and inflation placing the Feds in a difficult spot – a rock and a hard place – can’t raise rates to sure up the dollar, keep inflation tame – can’t lower rates to sure up the economy help out Fannie and Freddie.
There’s a premium in oil pricing attached to the U.S. and Israel’s Iran saber-rattling. It’s working
To know what’s going on you have to read everything Bhadrakumer writes:
Russia’s energy drive leaves US reeling
By M K Bhadrakumar
whole article worth reading:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JG19Ag02.html
I meant as a defender of Palestinians.
He is making the case for an Israeli attack…and then further by bringing up the Israel’s nuke option.
Benny Morris has never – EVER! – been a defender of Palestinians. Benny Morris is a vicious racist who considers what Israel has done to the Palestinians to be absolutely necessary and justified. His only regret about the ethnic cleansing he exposed in his work is that Israel did not finish the job.
Funny how some people have said he was evenhanded.
Do you KNOW his opinion about 1948 and the subsequent ethnic cleansing projects? Have you ever heard or read what he has said about Palestinians? His position is that ethnically cleansing Israel was/is “regrettably” necessary and completely justified.
He wants a Jewish state that is purely Jewish. His desire is for Israel to be Arabrein.
PS What constitutes “evenhanded” when one is discussion ethnic cleansing of the indigenous majority by an immigrant minority bend on taking over the land for themselves? What constitutes “evenhanded” when one is discussing genocide? How is someone evenhanded in a discussion of the obliteration of hundreds of centuries-old villages and towns and all the monuments and history they contain, including their very names?
We agree. I never thought highly of him.
On a positive note (even though I disagree with your analysis of Morris’ piece), it’s good to see that you can cross-post at dKos again.
I am wondering, what part of his analysis do you disagree with?
Check your recs.
Sorry, I don’t understand what recs is.
Comment ratings/recommends.
I came late to the diary. Most of my concerns about Morris’ credibility had already been stated in some form or another by other posters; so I just recced their comments (and yours).
Pisses self
Not one of our political leaders has lifted a finger to avert this disaster. Nor is there any understanding that attacking a country merely because they could, theorectically become a threat to you sometime in the future, is a war crime.
And it seems that there is no one to tell Israel that if they use nuclear weapons they will have crossed a line that will delegitimize them in the eyes of the world.
Nor do they understand that if they are seen as the cause of the economic dislocation that an attack on Iran would bring about even the US would turn against them.
The Saudis must be happy. Iraq has been humiliated, Iran could be next, and their finger prints are nowhere to be seen. Oil prices climb, they get rich. What could be finer.
“Nor is there any understanding that attacking a country merely because they could, theoretically become a threat to you sometime in the future, is a war crime.”
Of course the US war crime in Iraq made that vastly more difficult to understand. Especially now that we hear on all sides that it is “succeeding”.
Saudis have argued against attacking Iran all along. Just never makes our press.
Not much does make our press, actually.
Thanks for the link above. It’s amazing how many geopolitical games are going on, over my head, with very big stakes. Too bad our team captain is the one who traded away the young Sammy Sosa.
Yet again we see the consequences of a US run by politicians instead of statesmen. Instead of making it clear to Israel that any unilateral attack will isolate it from the world and dry up every dime of US aid, our “leaders” subtly encourage this kind of aggression, consequences be damned.
We can only hope that Israelis will finally listen to the wiser among them and realize that such an attack will mean permanent war and their ultimate destruction as a nation. We can only hope that some US leaders finally emerge who are willing to stand up to the toxic minority of American Jews represented by AIPAC. At this point the fulfillment of the former hope seems more likely than the latter.
Some interesting considerations:
Why is this information so public when the attack on Iraq’s nuclear facilities came out of the blue with no warning?
Is Israel really willing to risk retaliation from Russia (and believe that Russia and Iran have some sort of defense agreement) that could potentially destroy Israel? Russia will not like a nuclear war on its borders.
This is all very public diplomacy. I wonder what is happening in the diplomatic backchannels, especially with regard to European nations and Israel.
Smells like there are US-Iran negotiations in the works that Israel is very worried about. Just saying.
So… What exactly does Israel think Russia, Pakistan, India, and China are going to do if it launches a nuclear attack on Iran? IIRC, Iran’s shaping up to be their primary source of oil, and they’ve had a first-hand look at the carnage, death, and needless suffering caused by the US’ conquest of Iraq. Anything that threatens Iran threatens them directly.
Seems to me like an attack of any kind on Iran would look less like the conquest of Iraq or the invasion of Afghanistan and more like the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
In other words, the question we should be asking at this point is “Why do Israel’s leaders want to start a World War?”
Gives analysis:
Russia’s energy drive leaves US reeling
By M K Bhadrakumar
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JG19Ag01.html
Uri Avnery has explained recently in Counterpunch why he does not think that the US or Israel will attack Iran. Iran has stated that it will (very reasonably) treat an attack by Israel as an attack by the US. Thus, it would respond to an attack by Israel by blocking the Strait of Hormuz, something the US would not be able to stop, and which would cause the price of oil to skyrocket, causing a world-wide economic crisis. Thus, if the US allowed Israel to attack Iran, the US is even less rational than most people who participate in this blog think.
Benny Moris’s op-ed piece doesn’t even mention the Strait of Hormuz.
Well there goes my retirement years. Better start practicing my post-apocalypse scrounging skills.
It strikes me that Russia, as an interested party in this dispute should target some of its missiles on Tel Aviv and make it clear that any nuclear attack on Iran by the Israeli’s will result in their annihilation. This would surely reduce the danger, as I doubt the United States would go to the wall for Isreal, and what’s more important, so do the Israeli’s.
Thinking about the whole long manipulated “crisis”, doesn’t the hysteria about a nuclear attack on Israel seem kind of bogus? If Iran wants to mortally wound Israel, why would it have to wait for nukes? You don’t need them to accomplish massive destruction, as witness London, Dresden, and Baghdad, among many others.
Look at what blowing up a couple buildings did to the US economy, government, and status in the world. Assuming it has the delivery systems, Iran has the means to devastate Israel right now if it so chooses (and vice versa). So what’s with this pretense that Israel’s security totally hinges on Iranian nukes?
massive destruction, as witness London, Dresden, and Baghdad, among many others
You can’t compare London with Dresden! Dresden was fire bombed! The Nazis mostly just dropped the odd isolated bomb every once in a while. The idea was just to terrorize the Brits; you can’t compare the damage from bombing inflicted on Britain to that inflicted on Germany.
No British city was reduced to rubble. The ratio of casualties was roughly 10:1 (coincidentally, the same as it was between Lebanon and Israel in the last Lebanon war).
The level of damage inflicted on Dresden and Baghdad was possible because in both cases, the US had massive air superiority. As far as I know, Israel’s air force is considerably better than Iran’s, so Iran would be foolish to start an air war with Israel. Furthermore, if Israel ran into any trouble, the US would help it out. World response to the US bombing Iran wouldn’t be that negative, if Iran started a war.
None of this means that you are not right that the fear of Israelis of a nuclear threat from Iran is “bogus”. For whatever reason, the idea of a balance of power seems totally alien to them. They’re only satisfied if they have absolute, overwhelming military superiority. I think this derives from their obsession with genocide, which goes back to the Book of Esther in the Old Testament.
And everyone keeps on repeating that the Iranian president has said that he wants to “wipe Israel off the map”, when all he meant that Israel, being the product of Western colonialism, will not last forever, as Juan Cole has pointed out. The Iranians, unlike the Israelis, are not obsessed with genocide.
I think Morris may be right here.
Israel may be in a mindset very similar to Germany’s in 1914. If the feeling in Israel is that war with Iran is inevitable, they would be better off fighting the war now rather than after Iran goes nuclear. If the question isn’t war vs. peace but now vs. later, the attractiveness of a pre-emptive strike go up considerably.
Iran has effectively taken over Lebanon. Their president has repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel. They are showing off their missile capability. And they may be close to producing nuclear weapons. It’s not hard to see why Israel feels its back is to the wall. Add to this that Israel is a lot more confident of American backing with Bush in the White House than Obama.
I think they will probably wait until after the election, which is where I imagine Morris gets his 4 to 7 month time frame (although it should be more like 3-1/2 to 6 months).
“Their president has repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.”
Not quite true.
And why shouldn’t Iran flex their muscle after repeated threats by Israel??
“Not quite true.“
Not even remotely true, in fact. Nothing Ahmadinajad has said can reasonably be construed as a threat against Israel.
“I think Morris may be right here.“
I think you may be as crazy as he is.
“If the feeling in Israel is that war with Iran is inevitable, they would be better off fighting the war now rather than after Iran goes nuclear.“
“If the question isn’t war vs. peace but now vs. later, the attractiveness of a pre-emptive strike go up considerably.“
Never mind, of course, that a “preemptive strike” in the absence of a clear threat of imminent attack is a euphemism for a war of aggression. After all, Israel has gotten away with all its other wars of aggression, so there is every reason to believe that it will get away with this one (other than starting WW III, that is).
“Iran has effectively taken over Lebanon.“
Only someone who has no clue what is going on in Lebanon and who knows nothing about Hezballah would suggest such rubbish.
“Their president has repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.“
More rubbish. Ahmadinajad has never once “vowed” or even threatened to destroy Israel, or even suggested that Israel should be destroyed. Furthermore, Ahmadinajad is not the ruler of Iran, and has absolutely nothing to say about military matters or matters pertaining to international relations. And on top of that Iran’s government has a very strong system of checks and balances that prevents any one person or group in the government from being able to make a decision or take action without consensus from the others.
“They are showing off their missile capability.“
They are “showing off their missile capability” because they are being threatened by the United States and Israel, and are, very justifiably and wisely, demonstrating that they are capable of defending themselves.
“And they may be close to producing nuclear weapons.“
There is not a scintilla of evidence to support that, and there is ample evidence that it is not the case.
“It’s not hard to see why Israel feels its back is to the wall.“
Israel’s back is not to the wall, Israel is being its usual neighborhood bully self, threatening yet another war of aggression against a country that has never attacked it and never will.
“Add to this that Israel is a lot more confident of American backing with Bush in the White House than Obama.“
I don’t know why that would be given that the first thing Obama did as soon as he was certain of the nomination was to rush as fast as he could to lick AIPAC’s boots as no one has ever licked them before.
—–“There is no evidence that Iran intends to “go nuclear” and ample evidence that at the very least it is not working on a nuclear weapon at present. In fact, there is not a scintilla of evidence that Iran has ever had a nuclear weapons program.”
I don’t have access to any intelligence reports, so I can’t know whether Iran has a nuclear weapons program. It is, however, known that Iran has a nuclear program, and the uranium enrichment technologies for building bombs and building power plants aren’t so different. And you have to wonder why a nation that has one of the largest oil reserves in the world is devoting so much capital to a nuclear power program that it doesn’t need and that is causing it so much international grief.
It matters less whether Iran is, in fact, pursuing a nuclear weapons program as whether the Israelis believe that they are. If the Israelis believe that Iran is manufacturing nuclear weapons, and if they believe that Iran is doing so not for deterrence but for a first strike against Israel, it’s hard to imagine Israel not conducting a pre-emptive strike. It all depends on what the Mossad is telling the Israeli leadership, and of course that’s something I don’t know.
——-“War with Iran is only inevitable if Israel makes it so. Iran has a continuous 300 year history of non-aggression, and has shown no signs of changing that.”
I don’t know, it seems to me like taking Americans hostage at the Embassy is pretty aggressive. It seems to me that arming Hizballah to attack Israel is pretty aggressive also.
—– “Ahmadinajad has never once “vowed” or even threatened to destroy Israel, or even suggested that Israel should be destroyed.”
Oh, now I understand. When he said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, he meant he wanted to take a bottle of wipe-out and paint over the letters “I-S-R-A-E-L”. Of course, how could a nonaggressive soul mean anything else?
—— “Furthermore, Ahmadinajad is not the ruler of Iran, and has absolutely nothing to say about military matters or matters pertaining to international relations. And on top of that Iran’s government has a very strong system of checks and balances that prevents any one person or group in the government from being able to make a decision or take action without consensus from the others.”
If Ahmadinejad was speaking out of turn, the rest of the leadership could have disavowed his remarks. I don’t recall that happening. At least not in public.
——- “Israel’s back is not to the wall, Israel is being its usual neighborhood bully self, threatening yet another war of aggression against a country that has never attacked it and never will.”
I was really not trying to address the question of whether Iran intends to attack Israel. What I was trying to do was to understand the sorts of perceptions that Israel might have about Iran’s intentions. There are interpretations of those intentions that move into “existential threat” category and make a pre-emptive strike an arguable and even likely option for Israel. You may deny or downplay Tehran’s menacing rhetoric, but the Israelis take such things seriously, and, if for no other reason, we must as well.
“I don’t have access to any intelligence reports…“
Yes you do. Just as we all do, you have access to the latest NIE produced just a few months ago that concluded that Iran has not had any nuclear-weapons-related activity since 2003. You also have available to you, as we all do, information on the various monitoring and inspections that have taken place regularly with Iran’s full cooperation.
“…so I can’t know whether Iran has a nuclear weapons program.“
There is exactly zero evidence that Iran has EVER had a nuclear weapons program, and considerable evidence that it does not. All you have on the other side is self-serving speculation.
“It is, however, known that Iran has a nuclear program, and the uranium enrichment technologies for building bombs and building power plants aren’t so different.“
So, Iran is very sensibly working on a nuclear energy program – something that makes perfect sense both in terms of their short term and long-term energy needs, and could stand them in very good stead in the region. Using nuclear energy now will reduce domestic use of oil leaving them more to sell – which is good for everyone – and eventually when the oil supply runs out, they could be in a good position to sell energy regionally. Looks like good planning to me.
“And you have to wonder why a nation that has one of the largest oil reserves in the world is devoting so much capital to a nuclear power program that it doesn’t need and that is causing it so much international grief.“
See the paragraph just above. In fact, not only does developing nuclear energy make perfect sense how and in the future, there is a further irony to all this furor. You see, previously the very same neocons who are screaming the loudest were actually pushing Iran to develop nuclear energy.
“It matters less whether Iran is, in fact, pursuing a nuclear weapons program as whether the Israelis believe that they are.“
That’s a crazy argument.
“If the Israelis believe that Iran is manufacturing nuclear weapons, and if they believe that Iran is doing so not for deterrence but for a first strike against Israel, it’s hard to imagine Israel not conducting a pre-emptive strike.“
I repeat that a so-called “preemptive strike” in the absence of a clearly imminent threat is called a war of aggression, and is considered the supreme war crime. Further, I do not believe for one moment that Israel’s government or any other government actually believes that Iran is manufacturing nuclear weapons for any purpose. Further, the politicians in Israel know there is no external existential threat to Israel (the real threat to Israel’s existence comes from within and always has). This is not about Israel’s existence, it is about Israel insisting upon being the only 250 pound bully on the beach.
This is a pretext to threaten Iran just as the rubbish about Iraq’s supposed WMD’s and close ties with Al Qa`eda were a pretext to commit a war of aggression against Iraq. This is nothing new for the Israelis. They’ve been doing this “poor little me” crap since before statehood.
Iran is not a threat to either Israel or the United States, and never will be. On the contrary, it is Iran that is under threat from Israel and the United States, and Iran has every right to defend itself against such a threat.
Hurria: “War with Iran is only inevitable if Israel makes it so. Iran has a continuous 300 year history of non-aggression, and has shown no signs of changing that.“
JLG: “I don’t know, it seems to me like taking Americans hostage at the Embassy is pretty aggressive.“
You are going to equate hostage-taking by an overwrought mob during the chaos of a revolution with a full-blown state attacking and invading a country?!
“It seems to me that arming Hizballah to attack Israel is pretty aggressive also.“
Unfortunately, your knowledge and understanding of Hezballah appears to be limited to the standard propaganda, and there is not time or space here to correct that, which means it is not possible to have an informed discussion with you about it. Further, you appear unaware of Israel’s multiple daily violations of Lebanese sovereign territory (as observed and recorded by the U.N.).
Having said that, are you really equating assisting a resistance group with attacking and invading a country?
Oh yes – and if you want to point the finger at Iran for helping a Lebanese resistance group, shall we talk about the U.S. and Israel’s operations, violent and otherwise, inside Iran, including their sponsorship of groups on the official terrorist list? Shall we talk about a very filthy pot calling the kettle black here?
Hurria: “Ahmadinajad has never once “vowed” or even threatened to destroy Israel, or even suggested that Israel should be destroyed.“
JLG: “Oh, now I understand.“
No, you clearly do not understand at all.
“When he said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map…“
He never said anything like that. As a matter of fact even the maliciously inaccurate MEMRI mistranslation did not have him saying quite that. First, he did not say he wanted to do anything at all, nor did he call for anyone else to do anything. Second, what he said did not come from him, but was a repetition of something Khomeni used to say. In other words, he was quoting Khomeni, not making a statement of his own. Third, he said nothing about wiping anything off the map. What he said was that the Israeli occupation of Jerusalem would be erased from the pages of time. Khomeni in that statement was specifically referring to the occupation of Jerusalem, not to Israel as a whole, and what he said was not a call to any kind of action, but a statement that the Israeli occupation of Jeruslam – one of Islam’s holiest cities would end.
Hurria: “Furthermore, Ahmadinajad is not the ruler of Iran…“
JLG: “If Ahmadinejad was speaking out of turn, the rest of the leadership could have disavowed his remarks. I don’t recall that happening. At least not in public.”
You have missed the point. Ahmadinajad can say anything he likes, but he is not in a position to do anything about it. Therefore, he is not the one people listen to who really want to know the position of Iran’s government on matters pertaining to military and foreign policy. The one people listen to is Khamenei, the Supreme Ruler of Iran, but even he cannot act alone. As I tried to explain before, there are a lot of checks and balances built into Iran’s system, and there is no one person who can make a decision and take action about anything. Everything is done by consensus.
“I was really not trying to address the question of whether Iran intends to attack Israel. What I was trying to do was to understand the sorts of perceptions that Israel might have about Iran’s intentions.“
OK, I understand. However, I do not believe for moment that Israel’s government and military leaders believe Iran is a threat to Israel’s security or existence any more than they believed Egypt was a threat to Israel’s security or existence in 1956 or 1967, or that they believed Saddam was a threat to Israel’s existence. They know Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program, just as Georgie and the neocons knew that Iraq did not have WMD’s or any kind of relationship with Al Qa`eda. As I said before, what Iran threatens (and what Saddam threatened) is not Israel’s existence. What they are protecting is their status as the only real power in the region. They will fight to keep that for the same reason that the neocons have put the world through so much hell for the last 8 years, not for security but because they have a lust for power.
“There are interpretations of those intentions that move into “existential threat” category and make a pre-emptive strike an arguable and even likely option for Israel.“
There are no intentions to interpret. Iran is doing what it has every legal and moral right and reason to do – developing nuclear energy capabilities. As long as Iran remains in compliance with its agreement under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (to which it is a signatory, and which Israel has, quite in its character as a rogue nation, refused to sign) no one has any legitimate reason to complain, let alone threaten or attack or – heaven forbid! – nuke Iran. Iran’s enrichment facilities are under an international monitoring and inspection regime, and Iran is cooperating. The Israeli government knows this, and the Bush regime knows this.
“You may deny or downplay Tehran’s menacing rhetoric…“
You are going to have to do much better than that one maliciously translated quote of Khomeni by Ahmandinajad to convince me or anyone else who is knowledgeable about these matters that the rhetoric from Iran has been “menacing”. In fact, the ones who are engaging in truly menacing rhetoric AND actions are the U.S. and Israel. Last I heard Iran has not threatened to attack anyone, nor are they undertaking any actions to affect regime change in any country.
“but the Israelis take such things seriously, and, if for no other reason, we must as well.“
I think you have the cart pulling the donkey here. What you must take seriously is not any threat, real or perceived, from Iran, but the very real and very serious threat from Israel and the U.S. that they will start WW III. Israel and the U.S., not Iran, is the problem here, so focus on the problem.
The very knowledgeable, thoughtful, and well-connected Helena Cobban has a very good analysis of Benny Morris’s blackmail piece:
“For the Israeli government, using its very robust nuclear-weapons capability for purposes of blackmailing other parties– including, certainly, the US– is nothing new. (See my 1988 World Policy Journal article– PDF– on that topic.) However, that blackmail is usually carried out in a subtle and behind-closed-doors fashion.
“But now, here comes Israeli citizen Benny Morris openly expressing (and expressing support for) the most blatant form of nuclear blackmail imaginable.
“
snip
“I have read and re-read Benny’s piece, and it terrifies me. (It also concerns me greatly that the NYT purveys without comment this extremely crude and mendacious endorsement of nuclear blackmail.) It is terrifying for a number of reasons, including the way it so easily reproduces some quite unsubstantiated claims about the status of Iran’s nuclear program and the status of current diplomatic efforts.“
I urge everyone to read what Helena has to say about this.
“here we have a prominent member of the Israeli Left“
Steve, do not make the error of assuming that Benny Morris is a member of the Israeli left merely because he created the seminal work that exploded big parts of Israel’s creation mythology. Benny Morris lacks the most fundamental characteristics of the Israeli left. He not only has zero remorse for what Israel has done to the Palestinians over the last century or so, his only regret is that they did not do a thorough enough job. Furthermore, as anyone knows who has studied his work, he has refused completely to come to the only realistic conclusion about what happened in 1948 and after – that Israel’s founders, and later each of its governments – have engaged in deliberate, planned, systematic ethnic cleansing.
As Israeli historian – and real member of the left – Ilan Pappe shows in his recent book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, the real purpose behind the 1948 war was precisely to cleanse the land of its indigenous non-Jewish majority.
Benny Morris is a racist who does not acknowledge or accept that Palestinians are full human beings with human rights equal to Jews.
I agree with all those who have pointed out that Benny Morris is by no means coming from the Left or anywhere near it. In other words, Steven, your basic premise is wrong. What this really is is a particularly vicious spin piece foisted on and catapulted by the NY Times (we all know how available the Times is for this sort of thing) by the War Party, in an attempt to counter the obvious fact that things are really not going their way. Obviously Morris would like to believe that Israel will attack Iran. But really you should read Uri Avnery’s piece (already linked above):
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery07142008.html
My own reaction to this effort of the Likudniks can be expressed in two words — and they ain’t “happy birthday.”