Okay. Spill it. What do you think of this Obama-Biden ticket? What do you think McCain will do?
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
I’m unexpectedly very happy with the ticket.
As to McCain, as I heard his response to the Springfield speeches, it was like seeing a person fade into a ghost in a horror movie. What was that old song — “just a sad old shade of gray”? That could be the dirge for his electoral hopes.
Me, too.
At first, I thought Well, this is OK. But since this morning, and especially now that I just watched the speech (recorded because I had to go out) I’m so hyped.
FIRED UP & READY TO GO!!
I just see a lot of upside to this ticket. Lots of complementary yin yang going on: Obama’s cool to Biden’s fire; Obama’s new energy, keen intellect and expanded vision to Biden’s Washington knowledge and relationship to the “village” to help guide his vision around the pitfalls; Obama’s ability to bring in new folks to the party; Biden’s ability to give reassure the traditional groups and let them know they still have a place.
I have to say, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a happier VP nominee, either.
I forgot about his son, who is DE AG and is STILL going to Iraq. He’s got some “skin in this game.”
And his wife is a teacher. Yay!!! The sooner she can help take NCLB by the scruff of its neck, beat it, shoot and then bury it the better.
I’m excited! Now let’s go beat the snot out of that kept man, John McSame.
Biden seems to have given Obama a new burst of energy. Tweety pointed it out today, and for once I agree: This afternoon Obama, especially towards the end of his speech, brought out some real passion.
I think Biden is going to make him better and sharper. Certainly Obama could take a lesson from Biden’s very strong debating skills. A little help with the one-liners couldn’t hurt either, and Biden does them better than most.
Biden is also clearly very happy and grateful to get this, and that’s what we want in a veep.
He also strikes me as potentially becoming a Johnson-type figure in terms of getting things done for Obama with the Congress. The Reps respect Biden, as does the press. He can help us get stuff done.
It just dawned on me–he finally has a partner who can really help him. Sure, he’s got surrogates, but for months, it’s been Obama vs. a field of seven or eight; Obama vs. Edwards and Clinton; Obama vs. Clinton AND BILL; Obama vs. Clinton and BILL and McCain; Obama vs. McCain and sometime Bill.
Shit, that would zap me of my energy, too!
I am TOTALLY seeing this as a Kennedy-Johnson 2.0.
Well, I’d submit that Biden is the better human being than Johnson, but that Johnson, in terms of raw talent and sheer brutality, was the better legislator. The parallels are certainly there, though.
But, yeah, a key for me: Biden is going to make Obama a better candidate. Biden can sharpen Obama’s message and put a little dirt under Obama’s finger nails. If I’m Obama, I damned sure practice for the debates by squaring off with Biden any chance I get. Obama plays with gloves. Biden plays with sledgehammers and chainsaws.
If Obama can get to half Biden’s skill level in debates, Obama will flatten Grandpa Psycho. It’d be almost embarrassing to watch.
Biden’s son is willingly going to take part in the greatest of all war crimes, and that is a PLUS in your mind? Not in mine. My war heroes are the ones who refuse.
You’d prefer it if Biden shielded his son with privilege while some poor kid gets shipped off to risk his neck?
No, I would prefer if he brought his sons up with better values, and if they choose to take part in a crime, I would prefer that he not try to use it as a point in his favour.
Who are you voting for Hurria?
I have not decided yet, but it will not be Obama except in the extremely unlikely event that my state is in jeopardy, and it sure as hell won’t be McCain.
Booman Tribune scale.
is that good?
No, its excellent. Three is good sheeze.
I’ve been doing the happy dance since the Biden announcement. I’ve been crossing my fingers for this to happen and BAM! This is the blazing-fire-y-spunktacular-turbo-boost that is needed…I hope it is enough.
(Also, I am very fond of the FDR quote you’ve selected Salunga)
“Spill it…What do you think McCain will do?”
McCain just asked his Butler to order a truckload of Depends. (Cindy will sign the check.)
Seriously…his campaign handlers have gone loony desperate..
A Hilzoy find:
I posted a “thought” at 12seconds and my man Ron posted a very good reply to my video.
Too bad, this site doesn’t support the Seesmic embedded player. There was a good discussion on this, even though it got derailed by drinking and cockrings…ANYWAY, here is my longer response regarding Biden. I must admit that out of the box he shone.
Today’s speech was what was needed. We know that Biden can attack like no one, but we have yet to see how much leeway he’ll be given from the Obama camp.
I tend to think part of the reason they went with him was so that they could take him off the leash. I don’t think it helps to try to restrain Biden. Gotta let him go out and throw sledgehammers.
wonder if McCain might try picking a non-old-white-guy running mate.
Heh – maybe another Danny Quayle type.
That would be Pawlenty. And that would be pretty hilarious, but not in a good way for Grandpa Bonkers.
McCain’s still going with Romney if he isn’t a complete moron.
Romney’s the only one who gets him a shot at Michigan, and Romney’s the only one who might save a western state or two.
I know the family history there, but someone’s got to explain to me how another rich guy helps carry that economically hard hit state. I don’t get it.
Relative to other picks. I still think Obama would get Michigan.
I don’t get it either. Mitt may have been born here but he left and didn’t come back until he was running for the nomination.
Biden isn’t rich.
Biden overcame tragedy and became an expert on world affairs
Source: McClatchy Newspapers
November 16, 2007
Biden has taught law on Saturday mornings at Widener University since 1991. His income is his $165,200 Senate salary and $20,500 from teaching. In a 2005 ranking of the 100 senators for wealth, he was 99th. In other words, unlike most other presidential contenders, he isn’t a millionaire.
“Biden…became an expert on world affairs“
What world affairs? Biden doesn’t know jack about Iraq, or the Arab and Muslims worlds in general.
I agree with what he says. He just doesn’t identify who the real terrorists are.
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=cj_icg26N0I
McCain only has two options that would help him– either a woman, or Huckabee. The Huckster has a folksy personality, and he will help bring the fundamentalist snake handlers back into the GOP column.
If McCain picks anyone else, he’s not going to benefit.
I actually don’t think this election is going to be close, in spite of all the nervousness and worrying we’ve seen in left blogistan in recent weeks. Obama and Biden are a very attractive team. They are way too centrist for my tastes, but IMHO they are the ideal formula for winning in November.
Only the media is trying to call it a dead heat. If this combo cannot win then it is the end of the Democratic party. We need this election mostly because of the consequences it would hold for the Supreme Court if McSamilliane won.
and the winner is… drum roll… k. bailey hutchison.
southern strategy ala nixon, rove, etal, they’re already courting the racist vote.
I like the ticket, particularly, Biden’s ability to riposte. That will come in handy when the republican slime balls get down and real dirty instead of just dirty like now.
The Russian – NATO situation concerns me, though. The Russkies are pissed and I don’t blame them. If we continue to expand NATO to the east and actually install an anti-missile system in Poland, then, I expect Russia to counter with pressure on Ukraine or, maybe, shipments of high grade uranium and nuclear scientists to Iran, especially now that they are making nice with China. cf Shanghai Cooperative Organization.
The world becomes more dangerous all the time.
I’m curious what Michael O’Hanlon thinks of Biden.
BTW, Biden was in favor of partition of Iraq, which some are now saying was unwise. But hasn’t Iraq, in effect, self-partitioned – what with the “ethnic cleansings” and migrations over the last couple of years?
O’Hanlon would probably view him favorably. Biden better be smarter if he thinks about taking on Russia and Iran.
It sickens me that he was in favor of the neocon plans for Iraq and every other Arab nation.
Ever heard of Oden Yinon?
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_280.shtml
Have you ever heard of The Wolf Brigade? Look up an article by Max Fuller titled “For Iraq, `The Salvador Option’ Becomes Reality.
You’ll see who started the civil war that is leading to the break-up of Iraq.
Partition of Iraq is not merely unwise, it is absolutely NOT the business or the right of the United States to decide and impose that, and would be yet another crime to add to the United States’ many crimes against that country. There is a reason that the overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose partition. It is impossible to divide Iraq along geo-ethno-sectarian lines, although the ethnic and sectarian cleansing so helpfully enabled and facilitated by the United States, particularly during The Surge<sup>TM</sup> HAS made it somewhat less impossible. Contrary to the popular mythology, Iraq has NEVER been divided geographically, ethnically, or religiously, and the fact that Biden thinks it has, or that it is even remotely appropriate for the United States to divide it, shows just exactly how shallow is his vaunted foreign policy expertise.
Biden, like most Americans, entertains the standard-issue fundamental misconceptions about Iraq’s political and social history, demography, and the nature of its society. I wonder if Biden has bothered to find out, for example, that Iraq has a 30% intermarriage rate, and that most families are mixed to one degree or another. How on earth is partition supposed to work when such a high percentage of households contains some combination of two or more of Sunni and Shi`a Arab, Christian, Turkmen, Yezidi, Mandaean, Kurdish, and “other” members? In some mixed families the children have chosen different religious paths – one might choose to be Sunni, another Shi`a, and yet another might be secular. How would he propose managing that in his geo-ethno-sectarian partition model for Iraq? I wonder if he is aware that the majority of Iraq’s Arab tribes are mixed Sunni and Shi`a. How would he manage that situation, I wonder? Forced conversions, perhaps? Does he have the slightest inkling of the damage his proposal would do to the foundation of Iraqi society? Clearly not.
I wonder if Mr. Biden has any clue as to the fact that Saddam was NOT a sectarian who favoured Sunnis over Shi`as, that he had Shi`as, Christians, and Kurds (including one who was both Kurd and Shi`a) in very high positions in his regime, that the majority of the Ba`th party were Shi`as, and that a significant portion of the cards in that embarrassingly idiotic deck of playing cards contained the names and photographs of non-Sunnis, and non-Arabs, including the aforementioned Shi`a Kurd.
I doubt Mr Biden has the slightest idea that the issue between Saddam and Shi`as was not a sectarian one, but a political one involving parties whose goal was to depose his regime and transform Iraq from a secular state to a religious state ruled by Shi`a religious leaders. Should it be a surprise that he viewed these groups as a threat to himself and his regime and sought to rid himself of this threat? Would Mr. “foreign policy expert” Biden be surprised to learn that Saddam also sought to rid himself of Sunni Arabs who threatened his regime?
Oh – and I’ll bet Mr Biden knows nothing about the complex dance that went on for decades between Saddam and the two Kurdish mafiosi warlords, particularly the uber-opportunist Jalal Talibani, or that with their wars with each other and oppression those two Kurdish warlords were responsible for at least as much Kurdish death and suffering as Saddam himself brought about.
No one who has even the most basic real knowledge of Iraq believes that partition is either appropriate or possible, but Mr. Biden, the great foreign policy expert, does.
yes, the partition plan was a terrible, lousy, bone-headed, and ultimately callous idea. As I’ve been saying, Biden has foreign policy experience but he hasn’t always displayed foreign policy wisdom.
On the AUMF though, he was working as an ally of Powell and Blair, who wanted a resumption of inspections and an UN resolution to authorize any use of force. He was really Powell’s point man, and he takes a hit for it, rightly so, but it is a hit most people don’t really understand in context.
The partition plan was all of those things, plus it was dead ignorant. No one who has even basic knowledge and understanding of Iraq would suggest it even as a joke. It wasn’t just a matter of wisdom, it reveals enormous hubris and genuine lack of knowledge about the country he wanted to cut into pieces. That does not fit with his reputation as a foreign policy expert. He doesn’t have any more knowledge or understanding of Iraq than the average American on the street does.
Hubris is probably the correct word for it, although Biden knows plenty about Iraq, especially compared to the man on the street.
His problem is that he has the distinctively American trait of thinking there is a solution to every problem. His plan would, in effect, involve American troops in an act of ethnic cleansing. If he had argued that Iraq was headed in that direction in an organic kind of way I might have credited him with foresight. But to advocate it as a plan, that was crazy.
Although, his plan has been misunderstood somewhat. He recommended administrative partition rather than an actual break-up of the country. He’s at least half-right on that. The problem is that there is no realistic way for Iraq to set up Sunni and Shi’a districts. As you’ve noted, the country simply isn’t split like that along clean sectarian lines. However, Kurdistan presents unique problems, especially around Kirkuk.
Kurdistan is already a kind of state within a state. But there’s no way we could create a second Sunni state within a state, and that is where his plan smacks of hubris.
“Biden knows plenty about Iraq
Sorry, BooMan, but I haven’t seen any serious knowledge about Iraq reflected in either his words or his actions. On the contrary, what I have seen and heard, as I have said, is the standard-issue mostly self-serving contra factual nonsense that has become received truth by virtue of repetition. I don’t know from where he gets his information about Iraq, but it doesn’t seem to be a whole lot more accurate than what we read in newpaper and magazine articles, or what comes from the know-nothing pundits and self-appointed “experts”.
One would think, would one not, that a person who knew plenty about Iraq – or at least plenty that was relevant – would have some idea of how intertwined the different groups are both demographically, historically, and socially, and that he would also know that the so-called sectarian conflict fighting was not an “ancient conflict”, but was of recent origin, and politically rather than religiously based? And before embarking on a project of massive ethnic cleansing that would fracture families, and shred the fabric of Iraqi society might some one who knew plenty about Iraq consider that the cause of this problem was something that had changed recently, and that correcting that might be a better solution than ethnic cleansing? Of course, that, in part, is where the hubris comes in, but it is also, as I said, dead ignorant.
And on a different but related topic, I heard some remarks he made about Iran that did not encourage me about his knowledge of that foreign policy subject either. Among other things, anyone with any real knowledge or understanding of Iran knows that Iran is not, never has been, and will be in the foreseeable future a threat to Israel or to any other country. They would know that Iran has not attacked or invaded another country for 250-300 years, and there is no reason to believe that is going to change.
But of course, Biden is more blindly devoted to Israel than any Jew I know, which means, among other things, that he does not understand that there are only three simple things Israel needs to do in order to be accepted by its neighbors – end its ugly, brutal occupation, ongoing land grab, and illegal colonization of the 22% of Palestine it had not succeeded in grabbing by 1949 (i.e. the land outside the green line), end its illegal occupation, colonization and utterly illegitimate annexation of the Golan Heights, and stop violating the territory and committing acts of aggression against its neighbors. Biden does not know that the Arab League has twice offered full recognition and normalization, including diplomatic relations to Israel if it only would withdraw to the green line and return Syria’s sovereign territory to Syria, and that twice Israel has refused even to use that as a basis for negotiation?
So, I am not at all impressed with Biden’s knowledge or understanding of the Middle East, nor am I hopeful that he or Obama would manage Middle Eastern and south Asian matters in any more effective and constructive way than the preceding administration has. My only hope is that they will be less rampantly destructive, which I do think is likely.
But, I’m slowly getting over it. He’s not Hillpatine and Bayh, which meant that I didn’t have to be sick to my stomach. I’ll work through it. As for McAncient…the GOP Money Men have already told him – ROMNEY.
It’s gonna be Romney, and oh boy, what fun with commercials the Obama camp will have with them…LOL