I think the Big Shitpile bailout deal has fallen through. Expect the worst day on Wall Street tomorrow that we’ve seen in a long while. Also, do not expect John McCain to show up in Mississippi. Today should have been a horrible day in the stock markets and would have been if not for irrational optimism about the prospects of a bailout. Tomorrow, I expect that optimism to turn to pessimism and then all the bad economic reports that came out today will get factored in. It should be ugly, and McCain will have no grounds to say that a deal has been reached or that it is imminent.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
52 Comments
Recent Posts
- Day 14: Louisiana Senator Approvingly Compares Trump to Stalin
- Day 13: Elon Musk Flexes His Muscles
- Day 12: While Elon Musk Takes Over, We Podcast With Driftglass and Blue Gal
- Day 11: Harm of Fascist Regime’s Foreign Aid Freeze Comes Into View
- Day 10: The Fascist Regime Blames a Plane Crash on Nonwhite People
Has Paulson and the other muckety-mucks provided any kind of proof that this money is needed NOW? I haven’t seen anything like that yet.
No The Treasury explains how it came up with $700 nillion, “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
“McCain is not sure he supports the package” – Bloomberg TV
Bush’s former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill: I don’t think Bush understands ‘the financial crisis – he’s in a panic.
Grassroots outrage:
Ugly tomorrow? They’ll import money from Cayman Islands to shore up the markets. FDIC needs $150 billion. Paulson wants a down payment of $700 billion and three months forward another trillion will be requested.
Sanders is Teh Bomb!! He P’wned Kudlow good!!
I hope your comments are premature Booman. If they aren’t this will constitute another in the apparently unending series of horrendous, self-inflicted US disasters in the 21st century.
You’re going to take Bush’s side of the argument when these economists disagree:
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
It would be insane to trust Bush here. Bush and the gang are making it up as they go and have no idea what they’re doing. Every last time they’ve asked for emergency power or tried to “fix” the economy it hasn’t worked.
What makes you so certain Bush is finally right and these economists are wrong?
HawkGuy, I refer you to my comment on Booman’s previous post, The Big Bail-Out.
I am simply dumbfounded that people still think that following George W. Bush around is a smart idea. It’s plausible, I suppose, that the government, under George Bush’s leadership, can manage the debt deflation in an appropriate manner.
But the odds are piss poor. Bush is making up the plan as he goes. His past history of presenting the public with harried plans like this has been terrible. Remember how his tax cuts needed to be passed to save the economy and we would grow the economy and have surplussed to pay for social security? Remember how we were just suppossed to trust him to smite the evildoers and he would rid the World of WMD and spread freedom?
You’re promising me a “win-win” deal that us simpletons are too stupid to see because of our Bush hate, or something, and that George Bush couldn’t explain his plan better (look at your previous post).
Last time we were told we are in a new economy and were guarnteed that things were hunky-dory (um, try last week) we ended up in a reckless housing and financial bubble. No thanks. I think I’m done taking George Bush’s advice. I think I’m sick of his apologists and those that take his threats seriously.
At 7:35 PM EDT, Reuters reporting a Developing story
House Republican leaders say Wall Street, not taxpayers, should fund rescue plan
l assume you’re referring to this: No deal on bailout, says House GOP, which is just a continuation of the RATfucking rhetoric that’s been spewing all week, ergo, no new news.
as far as mcstain skipping the debate: Depends…mcstain central is hedging their bet:
with the polls moving to obama, j-mac’s got himself between a rock and a hard place.
he’s going to have to come out sooner or later, and at this point, he loses…no matter which he chooses.
I’m glad it fell thru (if true). I called my reps Boxer and Lee, pushing them to scrap the Bush Fiasco plan. Nothing good has come from this administration, nothing but lies, death and catastrophe.
Only a simpleton would allow these cretins to have any say in anything at all, beyond a guilty plea when the time comes.
Watch this Video: Dem Rep from Ohio
Wall Street Bailout
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bush.html?hp
Deal looks done
Chris Dodd is an idiot. He would have made an awful president.
He’s bought hook, line, and sinker Paulson’s line that if the US government doesn’t give the money to Wall Street NOW the sky will fall.
I think that the main hope at this point is that there are enough good provisions in the bill that most Republicans will not vote for it.
It seems like Bush and Paulson are trying to scare the markets and make them crash. Jeez, I’m sure the markets would have stabilized if not for all these chicken littles going crazy.
Anyway, some big crash on Wall Street is the only thing that would get a big bailout bill through. As it stands, nobody believes there is really a crisis.
I think Congress should pass a small $150 billion bailout to get us through the next few months, and leave it at that.
Ha! I don’t think the markets take what Bush says about them seriously.
Even $150 billion would be too much. The problem is that the financial sector has gotten way too big: in 2005, its share of GDP was 20.4%, whereas the share of manufacturing had gotten down to 12.0%. Finance does not create real value. The sector needs to be significantly downsized, and now is the perfect time to do that; throwing more money at it is exactly the wrong thing to do.
But I agree that putting up only $150B would be better than putting up the whole $700B.
GOP is playing to McCain’s ultimatum, – postpone the debates, “No deal No debate stance – debates he’s too coward to face, especially the VP debate.
Again, the Civil War, the Great Depression, World War II did not prompt suspensions of the presidential campaigns.
apparently the original “deal” was this:
cut the ante, upped the pot, and left it open to raises.
mcstain went in and
fmucked up an alreadyfmucked up deal.“It seems like Bush and Paulson are trying to scare the markets and make them crash. Jeez, I’m sure the markets would have stabilized if not for all these chicken littles going crazy.
“Anyway, some big crash on Wall Street is the only thing that would get a big bailout bill through. As it stands, nobody believes there is really a crisis.”
I hate to say it, existenz, but that may indeed be the GOP plan. Crash the markets. It’s called disster capitalism. See the book by Naomi Klein.
Then pass the bailout. Then foment riots against the bailout. Then declare martial law and cancel the elections.
http://butnerblogspot.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/octobers-surprise-army-to-deploy-unit-for-domestic-op
erations/
Even if elections are held and Obama is elected, things might get pretty tough.
“… it would allow him to act with utter and absolute impunity–without review by any agency or court of law. After reading this proposal, I can only conclude that it is not just our economy that is at risk, Mr. Secretary, but our Constitution, as well.” — Chris Dodd, September 23.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-home-front/2008/09/23/chris-dodd-economy-and-constitution-at-risk.ht
ml
I Dodd knows what he’s talking about. Remember, he was the leader of the ultimately unsuccessful effort to block the telecom immunity amendment, which was similar: “to act … without review by any agency or court of law.”
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=9c2d6a5e75201d7e3936ddc65cdd56a9
Peter Dale Scott,
New America Media, Feb 21, 2006
<snip> When planes crashed into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, Vice President Cheney’s response, after consulting President Bush, was to implement a classified “Continuity of Government” plan for the first time, according to the 9/11 Commission report. As the Washington Post later explained, the order “dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating for the first time long-standing plans.”
What these managers in this shadow government worked on has never been reported. But it is significant that the group that prepared ENDGAME was, as the Homeland Security document puts it, “chartered in September 2001.” For ENDGAME’s goal of a capacious detention capability is remarkably similar to Oliver North’s controversial Rex-84 “readiness exercise” for COG in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary “refugees,” in the context of “uncontrolled population movements” over the Mexican border into the United States.
North’s exercise, which reportedly contemplated possible suspension of the United States Constitution, led to questions being asked during the Iran-Contra Hearings. One concern then was that North’s plans for expanded internment and detention facilities would not be confined to “refugees” alone.
Oliver North represented a minority element in the Reagan administration, which soon distanced itself from both the man and his proposals. But that minority associated with COG planning, which included Dick Cheney, appear to be in control of the U.S. government today.
Pay attention, people!
What’s the news narrative at this hour?
President Bush and the Democrats are close to a deal! Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, we’ve seen them all day in various stages of a deal, a new framework, negotiations, giving our money to Wall Street!
But who are the Brave Resisters right now? Congressional Republicans! Richard Shelby, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell!
Guess who’s going to be joining these “brave patriotic Americans standing up for the little guys” in Washington?
You thought Sarah Palin was a Hail Mary?
You thought “suspending his campaign” was a Hail Mary?
Watch what happens when St. Maverick throws the longest Hail Mary of them all…maybe even tonight.
“My friends, I cannot in good conscience vote for this bailout. It does not protect the American taxpayer and it is irresponsible. My respected collegues across the aisle, the Democrats, and the President of the United States are convinced this package is necessary, but I am not.”
MAVERICK!
And the Democrats lose again! Even when the bill eventually passes, the Maverick Reformer BBQ Straight Talker fought for you my friends, unlike Obama!
My friends, that’s leadership we can believe in!
WAKE UP DEMOCRATS! YOU’RE LOSING THE ELECTION AS WE SPEAK!
Of course that would happen.
Obama and the Dems would be part of the biggest socialist bailout in this country’s history. Let me repeat: the largest SOCIALIST bailout in United States history. And Obama wants to get suckered into this 40 days before the election. Last I checked “socialist” was a dirty word in this country (which is not fair–but that’s beside the point).
Obama and the Dems should be doing what Bernie Sanders has been doing–only more forcefully. You have to DESTROY these fools and heap mocking derision on them. You have to show the American people that Bush and his silly right-wing corporate elitist policies led directly to this disaster.
You don’t negotiate with a financial terrorists.
These are the guys that prattle on about free markets. Bush vetoed 11 billion dollars for health care for American children because it was too socialist. But now this big free market tough guy wants to give 700 billion to Wall Street after they have made huge profits these last few years?
Democrats can “fix” the economy after we prove once and for all that Republican supply-side voodoo market fundamentalism is a complete and utter failure, just like messrs Bush, Cheney, Paulson and McCain.
What’s the problem here folks?
Why are the Democrats sitting in rooms with the criminals trying to “fix” the problems the criminals created?
that is a VERY good point.
$11 billion to expand schip was out of the question.
$700 billion for wall street (however it was parcelled out in the end) was a great idea!
that was in the news earlier today, it was a bushwhack.
McCain is VERY dishonorable
Ambinder here, here and here
“This election is not about issues.” so sayeth rick davis, mcstains campaign manager…he of the fannie and freddie connection.
yeah, they’re all mavericks alright…think they’ve got an ace up their sleeve, and a derringer in their pocket.
And what is MSNBC playing? Barty’s post meeting presser where he said:
“Eventually we’ll have to hold our nose and pass this.”
Somebody shoot me. We’re about to lose this.
McSame’s hours away from Obama’s DEATH BY MAVERICK. He’s going to bravely rally the troops, folks.
By Barty you mean Obama?
If this is true it has got to be the single greatest instance of political malpractice ever!
He will finally rally the troops to stand up against McCain and the Republicans . . . but only to stand up with Bush (Mr. 20%) to give Wall Street the biggest socialist bailout of all time?
I cannot believe he would be so incompetent.
Dammit to hell I hate being right.
We’re about to get MAVERICKED again, folks!
Howard Feinman is saying on Countdown right now that McCain’s presence at the meeting at the White House today is what made the agreement unravel, by making House Republicans bolt.
Meanwhile, Obama said today that “we should work in a bipartisan way” to reach a deal. He is OWNED by the banks.
dude, is your brain on the fritz?
So, you think it’s good politics for the candidate of change to side with Bush on this, defying 99% of American voters?
When mainstream economists like Paul Krugman do not think that this is a good plan?
Also, as far as I know, Robert Rubin is still Obama’s economic adviser. As you may recall, Rubin was one of the main people behind the repeal of Glass-Steagall, along with Phil Gramm.
So long as Rubin is Obama’s economic adviser, especially after what has happened in the past two weeks, there is every reason to think that Obama is in the pocket of the finance industry.
CNN is reporting No Deal.
The House Democratic Leadership are firmly staying with their position: This is Bush’s bill and he has to get the House Republicans to sign on and vote for it.
House Republicans are saying they are getting 10/1 no/yes calls from their constituents.
Bush has nothing to offer the House Republicans. McCain has no leverage over the the House Republicans. The House Republicans are in full revolt against their leadership.
It was Bush’s Bill. He was the one who gave a televised speech saying, “Either this passes or we’re all gonna die.” It’s his party holding up passage. Let them take the heat.
Meanwhile, McCain and Idiot have moved the economy front and center. That’s an issue Dems win by double digits.
Since No Deal then McCain either backs off on his No Debate pledge or gives Obama 2 hours free TV time.
Meanwhile, Obama can play calm, reasonable, statesman — Presidential, in fact.
Hey! I’ll take it all.
Obama is 100% with Bush on this. He said he’d like to add provisions to the bill, but it can’t be done because of Republican opposition, so he’s for just for giving Bush what he wants.
Not very good politics, if you ask me.
It’s not good economic policy but then we haven’t seen good economic policies since Carter.
Politically, I think it rebounds to our favor. The country polls against the bailout but heavily in favor of having a national discussion about economic policy. This is the first crack in the neo-lib consensus since I don’t remember when; before you can change people’s minds they have to be persuadable, to persuade you have to get them to listen.
Further, played, “Messaged,” right this can really be a clincher for Obama. He’s being calm, cool, and collected. McCain is running around in little hysterical circles, lashing out without thought. What the country is seeing is how each man will handle himself in a crises.
Yes, but he’s following Pelosi’s and Reid’s approach to how to deal with the Republicans. That does not inspire confidence about his being a successful president.
“Eventually we’ll have to hold our nose and pass this.” Very inspiring and such an original thing for a Democrat to say.
This whole foo-foo came from the Bush Administration. No idea why they decided to pull this now, but they did.
Never, EVER play the other guy’s game.
If Obama had come out against it the GOP could have beat him up till election day.
As it is now, they got squat against him AND it’s the Republicans who have scuppered the deal.
The prize we need to be working for is the Presidency, 60 Senate Seats, and another 50 – 60 đŸ˜‰ House seats.
If Obama had come out against it the GOP could have beat him up till election day.
The GOP is split on this. If he had come out against it, he would have helped fracture the party.
“Obama didn’t support the Bush bailout of Wall Street” would not have made a particularly good ad.
“Obama isn’t experienced enough in economics.”
“Obama can’t handle a crises.”
“Obama isn’t ‘bi-partisan’ enough”
“Obama can’t work with Republicans”
“Obama is a ideologue”
“Obama is Radical Leftist”
and so on and so on.
Obama Statement Sept 23.
We’ll see what the final bill is like, and whether Obama votes for it even if it’s not that different from the original bill. Obama made a lot of noises against the FISA bill before he voted for it.
Bush’s Bill is DOA. Stick a fork in it.
That won’t change until the House Republicans sign on and vote for it. That, right now, ain’t gonna happen.
The House GOP has its own plan.
The GOP will roll with it and say it’s Wall Street paying for it and not the taxpayer. McSame will get behind it.
Got to get it through the committee first.
And then Pelosi has to put it on the schedule.
None of that has to happen before the election.
And after the election it won’t matter.
You think the normal rules still apply after the largest bank failure in US history?
Tomorrow is going to be pure chaos.
I’ve been talking about this scenario for months now.
Strap in. Tomorrow the fecal matter impacts the oscillation device.
By the end of the day the GOP is betting they will have won the election. They have staked it all on creating the chaos they need for McSame to swoop in as MAVERICK MAN.
I hope to God that Obama and the Dems prove them wrong.
Alexander,
I hate to say this, but I don’t think your powers of analysis are pitched at the requisite level of subtlety.
I don’t know what’s going on myself, but I do know that it’s considerably more complex than you seem to realize. For example, Obama’s not with Bush on this.
Obama said that he’d like other things in the bill, but it’s not possible to get them because of Republican opposition, so it’s better to just give Bush what he wants and then try to work for the other things later.
That has always been Pelosi’s line when it comes to legislation Bush wants.
Obama is with Bush on this in the same way that Pelosi and Reid have been with Bush on the war in Iraq. This is the same old Dem politics. There is no excuse for this when Bush is at 28%. Enough reputable economists have said that passing a bill is not so urgent that it can’t wait until after the election.
I’m not saying this is going to hurt Obama significantly in the election, but it does show that if he gets elected, Obama isn’t going to do much to undo the damage that Bush has done.
Exactly why I didn’t support Obama in the primary and don’t, really, support him now.
Reality Check: Either McCain or Obama is going to be the next President. I don’t like. But there it is. As much as I distrust Obama I loathe McCain and know he would be far, far worse.
At least with Obama there’s a chance, however slim, to turn this mess around. There’s no chance with McCain.
In theory you are right. But this is not theory, it’s politics at its nastiest. Emergency or no emergency, the Republicans have manufactured an emergency — it’s the Republicans (Paulson, Bernanke, Bush) that suddenly dumped this on congress just before they’re suppposed to adjourn and six weeks before the elections. It’s the shock doctrine. I think what Obama is saying, and unfortunately it’s true, is that given the politics of the situation, with threatened market meltdown, it’s not politically possible to start from scratch.
I actually thinkt he Republicans may have unintentionally done Obama a favor. Their opposition will slow this down, gioving Obama time to come up with a better plan. Don’t worry, the Republicans will never come up with a better plan, they’re not capable of it.
You say, “…if he gets elected, Obama isn’t going to do much to undo the damage that Bush has done.” I would say he will do everything he possibly can.
Don’t forget, a big reason why the Republicans are doing this is to try and hobble the Democrats in advance, because they already know they (the Republicans) are going to lose big on Nov. 4, and they may be out of power a long, long time.
There are many ways this can play out, some very bad, some not so bad. Let’s hope and pray for the best. For my part, I do trust Obama, he really has our interests at heart and he’s got a brilliant team.
I do trust Obama, he really has our interests at heart and he’s got a brilliant team.
If Obama were serious about fixing things, he would drop Robert Rubin as his economic adviser, who was the guy who got Clinton to continue Reagan’s deregulatory policies. I really don’t see why Obama hasn’t been called on this. Rubin, who was the head of Citicorp, is Obama’s Phil Gramm.
After reading what the deal was (250 B to start, 100 B @ President’s direction, the rest later) I think it’s a good thing that McCain blew up the deal. Now the Dems can wash their hands of it and put it all on his lame ass.
well if the economy sinks tomorrow, we can blame the Republicans. Fine with me. Personally, if the banks won’t loan money to each other, the Fed should close the overnight or discount window to banks just hoarding cash. Why flood the marked with equity, if no loans are being made, big banking is fing us and eventually themselves.
No bailout.