While Jeffrey Goldberg is admittedly correct to call Palin out for essentially endorsing Hamas, I think his analysis is a bit too smug. Palin was asked “What happens if the goal of democracy doesn’t produce the desired outcome? In Gaza, the U.S. pushed hard for elections and Hamas won.”
It’s a fair question that gets to the heart of our commitment to democracy over specific outcomes, which is questionable, at best. It’s a good question…a tough question…and it could be extended to the elections in Lebanon, in Syria, and (to a degree) in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iraq. What do we do when there are elections and people that hate us and hate Israel wind up winning those elections?
Palin’s answer was partially non-responsive.
“Yeah, well especially in that region, though, we have to protect those who do seek democracy and support those who seek protections for the people who live there. What we’re seeing in the last couple of days here in New York is a President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, who would come on our soil and express such disdain for one of our closest allies and friends, Israel … and we’re hearing the evil that he speaks and if hearing him doesn’t allow Americans to commit more solidly to protecting the friends and allies that we need, especially there in the Mideast, then nothing will.”
Of course, President Ahmadinejad is an elected official. He was voted in in an imperfect election because certain candidates were determined by the Council of Guardians to be ineligible to run against him. But Iran does a pretty good job of counting votes. They have real elections. So, Palin’s answer is a little off-key here, but American politicians play fast and loose with the facts about Iran’s political structure all the time. What bothers Goldberg is that Palin seems to be saying that we should protect those that seek democracy like the Palestinians, who elected Hamas. Hamas is an admittedly tricky case…a true test of our commitment to the principles of self-determination. Palin sidesteps the central focus of the question, perhaps because she is so unfamiliar with the dilemma that she didn’t understand the thrust of the question.
Where Goldberg is too smug is in failing to answer the question himself. Goldberg, rather, suggests that it was a mistake to push for democracy in Palestine. And I might agree with Goldberg if only he would explain why self-determination is okay when we get the desired result and not okay when we don’t.
I’m not above exercising some double standards now and then, and realpolitik is not a wholly dirty word in my book. I do believe that our national interests come first. But let’s not pretend that there isn’t a huge cost to our double standards on self-determination, on nuclear weapons, and on what constitutes a rogue state. Palin failed to answer the question, probably because she is a numbskull. Goldberg provides a perfectly acceptable alternative answer.
“Yes, Katie, it’s true that if you push for democracy, sometimes you get an outcome that you don’t want. This happened in Gaza with Hamas, and I think the Bush Administration was as surprised as everyone else. So the lesson here is that you have be careful when you try to export democracy. But I still believe that, over the long-term, democracy is the best antidote to terrorism that we have. What we have to do, though, is know when to push, and know when not to push. And every day, we have to do the hard work of advocating for press freedom, and the rule of law, and for all those things that build a civil society.”
What Goldberg doesn’t do is answer the root of the question. Why was it a mistake for the Palestinians to have a vote on their leadership? How is it even possible for a free and fair election to be a bad thing? Those may be more philosophical than political questions, but unless you can answer them, you shouldn’t be too condescending to those that have no good answer.
Why in the age of reason is Israel considered one of our closest allies! That aside:
The Palestinians voted to put bread on the table. The western press agrees Hamas was attentive to the needs of the people of the Gaza strip. I’m sorry I don’t know the actual breakdown of the vote in Gaza vs. West Bank. What I believe, and this is a humble opinion, is we need to look more then superficially at election results. Given the opportunity and without an absolutely crushing occupation by Israel the Gazan’s would have voted differently and for Abbas. The corruption left behind by Arafat aside. Cut these people some slack. They are suffering. Slice and dice Palin’s words anyway you want (because she is irrelevant and and idiot anyway) but cut the Palestinian people, who have suffered through 60 years of occupation by a people who have stolen their land, a small bit of human compassion and understanding. Screw Hamas its the poor Gazan’s way of saying please look at me. Quit killing my children. Let me have a life.
BTW: Mr. Goldberg please do not use Sarah Palin as a tool to push a blatant Israeli agenda. Nice try but its not going to work. The world is waking up to Israeli apartheid. Talk about a straw man…sheesh.
I’ve seen comments about how the vote that resulted in Hamas taking power was the result of lack of coordination or somehow reflective of a lack of competence on the part of the Bush Administration. To me, it was always a question of hypocrisy and double standards. Democracy was okay when it led to a desirable outcome and undesirable when it didn’t. I believe Republicans like Judge Robert Bork sneeringly referred to this as a “results-oriented analysis.”
There was a good reason Hamas won that election. The Palestinians elected Hamas because they were sick and tired of the corruption and opportunism of the collaborationists of Fatah. Hamas had for years provided vital social services, and had proven to be quite uncorruptable. Americans would probably be shocked to know how many Christians voted for Hamas.
To me, it was always a question of hypocrisy and double standards. Democracy was okay when it led to a desirable outcome and undesirable when it didn’t. I believe Republicans like Judge Robert Bork sneeringly referred to this as a “results-oriented analysis.”
I’m with you.
Arguing did or didn’t the Holocaust, Ahmadinejad basically gives up on that point and moves on to something less debatable. The Alaska bit is a nice touch, too:
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Now but what I’d like is really to put this debate aside for a moment. Let’s assume that it happened, the extent of which everyone is speaking of. Where did it happen? Did it happen in Palestine? Or did it happen in Europe?
KING: Well, it created Israel.
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): If it happened — no, it happened in Europe. If the crimes were committed in Europe, why should the Palestinian people be victimized as a result? Why don’t the Europeans just give them a territory? Or in Alaska, perhaps. They could give them a territory anywhere they like. But why pay from the pocket of some other people? It’s as if somebody — you throw a party from the pocket of someone else. The Palestinian people had no role in that crime. They’re innocent, completely.
Well, it’s kind of obvious why Israel is where it is.
I know Herzl was initially agreeable to putting it in Mozambique, but then what about the innocent Mozambiquians?
I think this argument is anachronistic, at best.
but to the Palestinians?
Anachronistic, in the sense that one cannot turn back the clock. No matter how much one reasons that the blame for the holocaust rests on Europeans (especially Germans), the State of Israel cannot pick up today and re-establish itself somewhere between Germany and Poland.
Not anachronistic in the sense that an injustice was perpetrated upon hundreds of thousands of Palestinians over 60 years ago — an injustice that the international community has done nothing substantial to redress. In fact, the international community has sat by while the plight of the Palestinian people has gotten progressively worse. A state that defines itself as existing for the Jewish people has disenfranchised and pushed out non-Jews and continues to do so through land expropriation, house demolition and soft transfer.
Even though we in America do not see these events in our media, it is well covered in the Middle East. Ahmadinejad is speaking to a concern shared by many in his base.
Um wut?
What I see is an evasion of the question. Let me break it down, sentence by sentence:
There was no engagement at all on the Hamas question. She ignored it. She stuck in a bland platitude about how democracy is always good and should be supported and then swiftly changed the subject to “evildoers in Iran”, where she was probably slightly more comfortable. But if Goldberg really wants to read some kind of support for the election of Hamas into that sentence, he should take up a job divining the future from the entrails of animal sacrifices. It would be less messy and less obviously stupid.
And yeah, his response is the same kind of stupid thoughtless drivel that passes for political “seriousness” in this country. My wife, who has no sympathy for Sarah Palin, is really harsh on how people are mocking her for her answers. Not that her answers aren’t bad, just that they’re the same contentless, talking-point driven, thoughtless crap that most other politicians spews, and that people are mostly complaining because her ability to deliver this crap sucks. I tend to agree. Goldberg’s response is not in any better on the merits than Palin’s response, it’s just a better polished piece of bullshit.