The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document, but it does contain principles that are somewhat definitional for the American ethos. There are two main principles from the Declaration that, when taken in tandem, amount to a countenancing and legitimization of revolutionary activity, even when that activity is beyond the law. The first principle is Jefferson’s definition of the purposes and legitimacy of government.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…
No government is legitimate if it loses the consent of the governed. And the government’s purpose is to secure the life and liberty of the people so that they may be secure enough to pursue their happiness (however you want to define that). This definition of government determines that we have legal constitutional means for changing our leadership (periodic elections, plus the criminal courts and impeachment process). But those legal means may not always suffice. And the legitimate use of extralegal revolutionary action is spelled out in Jefferson’s second great principle.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
No one could rely on this second principle for legal protection if they chose to rise up against the government, but that doesn’t change that our government is founded on principles that legitimize extralegal activity in certain circumstances. It is this second principle that is gaining traction with the Glenn Becks of this world. If you really believe that President Obama’s decision to hire and fire the members of the board and CEO’s of major U.S. corporations is an act of Despotism, for example, it might make sense to take up arms against the government. You could have said the same about many of the Bush administration’s more controversial policies (like secretly abolishing the Fourth Amendment). One concern is more legitimately despotic than the other, but that doesn’t change the principle involved.
Unfortunately for Beck, his worldview is not shared by many Americans.
Consider this: Four out of five voters think politicians in Washington, D.C., should limit the pay of executives at companies that get federal bailout money. Three in 10 voters embrace the historically un-American notion that government should control the pay for executives of firms that don’t get any cash from Uncle Sam — the kind of trust in government over the private sector that only a few years ago would have seemed laughable. The sentiment may be unprecedented, but so too is the federal assistance to private industries to keep them in business.
Or, how about the finding that only one in seven thinks executives of companies that needed federal help were victims of adverse economic circumstances they could not have anticipated. Three-quarters of Americans think these business leaders were either incompetent or crooked.
Perhaps that is why almost half of Americans want federal prosecutors to be more aggressive in pursuing criminal charges against these business leaders, compared to one in 10 who wants them to be less aggressive.
Americans are furious with the corporate business community and they are willing to give their consent (defined as majority opinion) to the Federal Government for taking actions that Beck considers fascist and despotic. That’s doesn’t make the American people necessarily right. They did, after all, consent to most of the outrages of the Bush administration. But the fact that the American people are clamoring for more federal control over the corporate business community does undermine Beck’s case because Jefferson insisted that governments derive their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. So long as they have that consent, there is no legitimacy to extralegal revolutionary action.
This is something that the Civil Rights leaders understood. Civil disobedience isn’t revolutionary, even though it is often illegal. Martin Luther King Jr. asked us to live up to the true meaning of our Creed that all people are created equal (Jefferson’s first principle) not that we ‘abolish the forms’ of government to which we had become accustomed (his second principle).
It’s Glenn Beck’s right as a private citizen to try to convince us that we’re on a glidepath to despotism. I’m not sure it is FOX News right to air his vaguely seditionary propaganda.
Of course most americans do not support the corporatists. But Beck’s whole shtick is made up of ambiguous innuendo. It’s not a coherent argument. He’s just using powerful imagery to try to corral the free-floating anger in a direction against Obama and the government. They already were doing this during the election campaign. It worked –for a small minority. The kind of people that would like to see saraj Palin and Joe the Plumber as President and VP. With the rest, it was a spectacular failure. true, the situation is a little different now, but not that much.
This kind of stuff has always existed snd will lways exist, but it is once again being relegated to the fringe. The difference is that they are taken more seriously in more of the national media than was ever the case before. however, the compensation is, I think, that the national media are taken LESS seriously than they ever have been before. They have discredited themselves 50 times over during the Clinton and “W” years, and there are consequences.
I am being only a little facetious here — but surely at the far end of the radical right, the skinheads, white supremacists and “christian identity” nuts who actually do admire Hitler, cannot be responding well to the equation of their hero with Obama either …
Yep. Or as I like to call them, the dead-enders (think Rumsfeld).
Cable news already seems like a relic. I almost never tune in and I now get most of my info from the internet. When I watch informative shows it won’t be cable news (although I’ve watched a little of Maddow and am really impressed with her skills–she’s sharp and is a good host). And I think I’m more typical of younger generations that get political news and commentary from places other than cable news.
The people that watch this shit are old conservative white men in the suburbs. This Beck stuff seems like one last gasp for attention.
In this kind of country, you WANT skinheads to dislike you. As long as they aren’t on your side, you can do pretty much anything you want (on the right wing) and have it considered acceptable. The real threat are the hardcore dominionist Christians. They would be the brownshirts in this country.
There is a lot of anger out there, and despite what Booman and some of you think, it is very much justified. You can’t shout down justified anger, no matter how dangerous you think it is, or you’ll just make those flames burn brighter. If the left keeps playing patty-cake with bankers and poo-pooing any attempt to reign in their exhorbitent, malignant wealth and power, then a whole lot of people who make Glenn Beck seem rational and balanced are going to get a hearing from the American people. That won’t be the American people’s fault. It won’t be the Right winger’s fault. It will be our fault for ignoring reality and trying to do what the liberal-elite think is right, rather than doing what the American people need.
Beck, drug limbaugh, o’leilly, etc. are nothing but well paid gasbags.
limbaugh gets $400 Mil from corporate media?
of course– because the whole purpose of corporate media is the continual hammering of unions, human rights, and painting the wealthy class as the poor, put-upon victims of dark-skinned welfare queens and crushing taxation/regulations imposed by a cruel, socialistic federal gov’t.
it’s ALL propaganda meant to perpetuate the massive wealth inequity in the U.S. and the world in general.
but the hope of (sedition) or other actions either on the left or right is empty. Bill Maher summed it well when he recently stated “I’m pissed off that MORE people aren’t pissed off!”
at least the French and English get out in the streets to protest when they are raped by corporations.
Please, if we tried that they would shot us dead in those streets. American cops are thugs for the powerful who shoot unarmed black folks in the back to keep the darkies in line. It’s hard to think they would even hesitate before opening fire on a crowd of protestors.
well, there’s certainly precedent for this; Kent State, and of course the infamous Chicago Democratic convention of 1968.
also, here in the U.S., one has to “have permission” (a permit) from the city to publicly demonstrate.
what a Load.
Booman Tribune ~ When is Sedition Appropriate?
bingo!
what a waste of what could have been a good brain…
he’s an experiment in the heating of air, is all.
soulless gasbag! attention-getting arsonist!
Time to call bullshit on Glenn Beck.
he needs to be met and responded to with ruthless mockery. Conventional wisdom needs to equate him with a running joke.
I say (ahem) ‘bring it on.’
These people won’t pull the trigger because they will lose.
Not because the government goes nuts and gets the crackdown on, but because their rallies will be empty and their efforts irrelevant.
I say it’s time to draw them into open conflict before they actual pose a threat of even the remotest kind. Bush taught me that, so it must be a good idea.
As far as Beck goes, he’s a nutbag. Gotta dig his flair for Riefenstahlist imagery. He’s never been one to deny his own self-contradictory urges (“even if it’s untrue, just believe!”).
But as far as calling our system Fascist and an offense to the sensible, he’s not too far off – he’s just pretending it all started on January 20th of this year and that all sensible people must therefore act like a wingnut, even though it’s the wingnuts and their allies who perverted our system so..
The Repugs and their Evangelical allies have been building and dreaming and praying for a fascist state (corporatism plus ethnic nationalism plus dominionism)for what seems like forever, and now that their dream has turned into a nightmare due to it’s own successes. Now, they are looking to blame the current administration while desperately attempting to preserve and extend the very same Corporatist model.
If the Dems did even a halfassed job ditching their fascist members, they would do us all a favor. That’s part of the Change I’ve been waiting for, but sadly don’t expect ever to see.
Sedition is appropriate whenever one sees fit, as long as one is ready to be hanged for it, no?
It is not appropriate if you are attempting to justify it by reference to patriotic American principles unless it meets certain criteria. It cannot be for light or transient reasons, nor can it be in defiance of the will of the people, nor can it be done in the absence of despotic intent by the government, etc.
My point was that, while principles are open to interpretation and the will of the people has a way of changing, the law is the law, unless the seditious act is successful enough to change the law. In the absence of that success, John Brown was hanged …
John Brown didn’t understand what John Lewis did.
Calling what John Lewis did sedition is a stretch.
That’s the whole point. Lewis depended on Jefferson’s first principle, while Brown went straight for the second one.
If your point is that making a valid point is not justification enough for sedition, then I certainly don’t disagree. I have a terribly hard time though simply condemning people like Brown or the Weathermen. Maybe I am drawn to that kind of temperament.
whether or not you have sympathy for John Brown or the Weathermen, they did not meet Jefferson’s standards and their actions were not vindicated, nor did they become accepted American practice.
John Lewis accomplished his goals. The others did not.
A lesson for the Palestinian resistance.
Any line of reasoning can be carried ad absurdum, as you have now demonstrated with your completely uncalled-for last sentence.
If it isn’t justified it is only because I hoped what was implicit would be understood.
I am wondering where my disagreement with you actually lies, since I am precisely the type who would tend to counsel against the absolutism of seditious action for purely utilitarian reasons.
Maybe here: utilitarian reasons are one thing. Making a principle out of submitting to a popular status quo is quite another.
Needless to say, people like Beck and Murdoch are making a travesty out of this kind of argument in any case.
I wonder. If any national cable news show played Nazi imagery while Bush was President, how quickly would that person have been either fired or shot by cranks?
Well, Bush himself pretty much accused Obama of siding with Hitler (in Israel during the American presidential contest–no less).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpoxLem36w
“We have an obligation to call this what it is , the false comfort of appeasement . . . .”
It is rindonculous what these fools say. But Democrats always go back and try to make friends with these idiots. Democrats take these arguments seriously by taking the bait and trying to prove that they aren’t appeasers by acting the way the Republicans want.
No wonder they are emboldened to keep on spewing this stuff. Beck is just filling the void the Democrats have ceded to him.