What do we get for being Americans that you wouldn’t trade with Canadians to get what they get for being Canadians? I’m thinking we have a more diverse geography, better national parks, nicer beaches, warm as well as cold climates…
After that, I got nothing.
I’m thirty miles south of the border so the geography and climate are the same. All I have that they don’t is the thrill of sharing my citizenship with the fine people of Texas and Alabama.
We take everything north of the Mason-Dixon line and merge with Canada to make a new country.
Actually, now that I see that in print it really seems like a great idea.
Fuck the south.
Now, now. There is always some parts of upstate NY, O’Reilly Island, the U.P., Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Evan Bayh, and Michele Bachmann’s district that you would still have.
And we would keep Ocracoke, Nawlins, and Austin
my dad and I were talking about this the other day (i’ll be blogging it later).
we were bemoaning the fact that nothing big can get done here anymore (and for the record, we both think health care reform is dead).
dad thinks the US is going the way or Russia or the old soviet union. He thinks, and i wojuld tend to agree, is that if a given state or region decided to secede from the US, it would be impossible to mount an effort to bring them back, because no one would be willing to fight.
You can add me to that list too. There is no way I’d fight to keep texas. And if the new england region left, with an aim to ally with Canada, I’d be really tempted to move back to Massachusetts.
Southerners who have been eagerly contributing dollars to progressive candidates in tight Northern elections will, I am sure, be thrilled by your display of gratitude. Here I was, thinking that we were all pulling together for the common good.
I guess this Southern liberal stands corrected.
To you, maybe. To Canadians, what exactly is the benefit? I can sure see lots of down sides.
Agree. What’s with the assumption that we’d want you?
Canadians don’t get much benefit. I never said they did.
Movies.
The weather. If it weren’t for the temperature, I might seriously consider Canada.
Oh, and the chance to lead the world. We’ve been doing a horrible job of it. But no one looks to Canada for anything (except health care, now).
I live in Whistler BC. We’ve been at 35C (95F) for a couple weeks and this is pretty typical for July/August. Temperatures usually don’t get below -10C (14F) in the winter but we get the occasional -20C (-4F) day.
Also keep in mind that Canada is a freaking huge country and that southern Ontario is at about the same latitude as Utah. We even have The South up here but we call it Alberta.
Yosemite is pretty mind-blowingly gorgeous so I’ll let the national parks thing slide.
Disclaimer: I have US citizenship by birth, Canadian citizenship by choice. I’m from Torrance CA originally and I was sitting beside someone from Compton at my Canadian citizenship ceremony.
Mu,
Glad to meet you, as a fellow Canadian, but I can`t resist mentioning that when it rains in Southern California, it comes down in Torrance.
I lived a couple of years in Torrance, and grew up in Manhattan Beach and Palos Verdes.
All notorious sundown towns in those days.
nalbar
Out here in the West we have a better plan…..BC, Alaska, Oregon and California succeed from everyone and a Western Republic with Canadian style health care, Legalized Pot, and lots of oil, Movies, and trees to sell as carbon sink holes. By the way I lived a good bit on the “Sunshine Coast” of British Columbia and we averaged 34 inches of rain and only a trace of snow annually. It ain’t as cold as you think up there.
Please don’t make us take Alaska. Unless we can have most of the land and few of the residents..!
how could we have Sarah Palin, and lacking her, how could we have this GEM of William Shatner reciting her speech???
And without Canada, you wouldn’t have William Shatner (for better or worse).
As a terran who does not believe in borders, I still think Canada should be left as is, an example of how things can be.
A showcase for the rest of the planet sort of.
I lived there for many many years & have been to every province but Newfoundland, although I`ve seen it from aboard ship.
Canada does not need to be added to, nor subtracted from, please.
Why don’t we just let Texas and the rest of the south secede again? They we can invade wherever there’s oil, like we do in the Mideast.
my parents little residential community in florida is more than half canadians. as may approaches all you here at the pool is constant whining about having to leave warm sunny florida because they cant keep their health benefits if they stay too long part 6 months since their last trip home. i have heard stories of people being flown back to canada paid for by the canadian govt to get health care because they didnt want to have to reimburse at american healthcare rates. cheaper just to fly people back home. (i dont get that by the way)
they also bitch about the high cost of beef. (and bring their own in frozen cryopacs)
what that’s about is something called travel insurance, which my son needs when he comes to the US.
Essentially, the US “system” of “health care” (dubious concepts set off with ironic quotes) does n’t accept canandian health coverage. If something unpleasant befalls a canadian on vacation in the US, he/she has to pay the full cost of care.
Travel insurance, at least the policy we’ve purchased for my son, covers the canadian for up to two weeks each month, and can be extended if the stay is longer.
and yes it is cheaper to fly someone home. certainly from philly, it’s only $150 one way to montreal. compare that to say, getting your broken arm set in the US. It’s a fuckload cheaper to splint it yourself boy scout style, and shell out the airfare.
I had the opposite happen in my family last summer. My 23 yo, uninsured, just out of college daughter went to a small community outside of Vancouver, BC to work on a farm and help build a house. She fell off a moving truck piled with hay bales and broke her neck and dislocated her elbow to the point where the humerus bone actually ripped through the skin requiring extensive surgery.
She received timely, efficient care in Canada…however, as an uninsured American she is responsible for paying the full price of her surgeries and week long hospitalization, as well as two long distance ambulance rides. $16,000. Ouch.
If she had been a Canadian, all of that would have been free, no questions asked.
I wonder what would have happened if she’s been insured? Would she have had to come to the US, for been covered there?
The $16,000 would be almost as painful as the injury, but if she’d been uninsured in the US I assume the bill would have been in 6 figures.
Hope the neck injury left no lasting problems?
I like Canada, and I have considered moving there in the past. But I think I would miss America. This is a much bigger country with a much richer, more varied culture. I also think it would be frustrating to be up there watching the politics down here and have no vote whatsoever.
You might want to check on the size of Canada.
It is much bigger than the US, & the land given back to the Native people in the north might even rival the size of the US parks
Nunavik Inuit lands total more than 250,000 square kilometers.
Russia, Canada, China & Australia & then the US in landmass.
Sorry, when I said “much bigger” I meant population, not area.
And some folks above have pointed out that Canada is, if anything, more diverse than the US. Which is true if you think of the variety of ethnic backgrounds. But, given the smaller population size, there is inevitably going to be less cultural diversity. (Even if there is more artists, writers, newspapers, moviemakers, musicians per capita, there are going to be far fewer total….)
As some people have said, America being both larger and more densely populated has a far more varied culture.
Both the Cajun culture in Louisiana (and parts of Texas) as well as the whole spirit of what’s going on in New Orleans is just fantastic – and that’s only ONE slice of culture in the USA. Going to South Florida (aka Miami) is an entirely DIFFERENT experience and yet equally amazing. And so on and so forth.
Diversity is a lot more TOLERATED in a lot of ways in the USA than it is in Canada. It’s easy to say that the very small minority of people of color are accepted in Canada (which is largely true) while forgetting the hostility and suspicion that’s ongoing between the Anglophile and Francophone parts of the Canadian populace.
The topic of Francophone suppression isn’t much of a big deal to most Americans since naturally it’s easier to sympathize with the English-speaking Canadians but it’s a pretty huge deal to a lot of Canadians.
Although we can decry a lot of the products as “crap”, the truth is that an incredible amount of artistic endeavors are ongoing in the USA at any one time, everything from painting to sculpture to yes, TV shows and movies which move you, inspire you and enrich your life.
Canadian history isn’t necessarily as “clean” as people might think it is. It’s hard to compare with the genocidal ideation behind the USA’s “Manifest Destiny” but Canada went more along Australia’s lines, trying to forcibly assimilate and shatter the cultures of their First Peoples.
It’s also really hard to compare Canada because a lot of what defines Canada is its relationship TO the United States. It’s a lot easier to be a fairly non-militant society when you’ve got essentially a single border with a very militant neighbor.
In other words, if the USA wasn’t constantly swinging its big stick around for 100 plus years, there might’ve been some encroachment on Canada from OTHER sources (than the way it is now, with only the USA).
Pax
Larger in population certainly but not in geographic size, you guys are just way more packed in.
Well there’s a huge difference between what’s readily inhabitable and what’s not. Sure Canada is much, much larger than the US in terms of actual ROCKS inside the border.
Of course a tremendously large percentage of that is so hostile to human inhabitants that it makes it very, very difficult to live there in any abundance.
Pax
Cajuns (Acadians) were originally from what is now New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, Canada.
Dubh,
Some people should read the story of “Evangeline”, to find out why there are cajuns.
http://frenchpirate.blogspot.com/2007/07/evangeline.html
Thanks for posting that, Knucklehead. My companion of two years is a full-blooded Cajun from Evangeline Parish LA. We may be completely different as far as our political views, but listening to his stories of growing up in the bayou never gets old.
All people are pretty much the same. And I am sure there are wingnuts in Canada.
What they have that makes me jealous; health care for all. And a realistic attitude towards how much of a GDP should be spent on the military.
What I have; I can autocross all year. Season starts in Jan and ends in Dec.
nalbar
Sorry to intrude, but unfortunately there seems to be a lot of ignorance here. First off, The US isn’t larger than Canada. Canada is the second largest country in land mass in the world (Russia is first). Geography is as varied as in the US, just different.
Second, for all its faults and flaws, multiculturalism is a major part of Canadian identity and actually in the constitution. Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world, and countries contributing the most new Canadians are in Asia and South Asia. All the large cities will have a majority of people from non-European countries in a couple of years.
While there’s nothing to be proud of in the treatment of First Nations by settlers, there were no Indian wars, no genocide, and First Nations and Inuit people are acknowledged as founding cultures with increasing populations and resurgent cultural life.
French Canadians have gained pretty much everything they’ve wanted by gradual and peaceful means, including official bilingualism. Separatism is at an all time low in Quebec.
As for other forms of diversity, homosexuality was decriminialized in 1969, and we’ve had gay marriage since 2005 without the sky falling. Women’s equality is in the constitution. There are no laws governing abortion; it’s a private matter between a woman and her health care provides. Canada has said no to capital punishment, yes to gun control.
Some of the differences in Canadian culture — which is quite varied, actually, from sea to sea to sea — are due to different beginnings: partnership with native peoples in the fur trade rather than removal of them for farming, as in the US; no institutionalized plantation slavery; no ‘wild west’ (the Mounties and the railway went first, then the settlers); no Civil War. A lot of the things people in the US had to struggle for were adopted in Canada without dramatic effort.
As for what people have looked to Canada for, over the years, the list would include leadership in the creation of UN peacekeeping, as well as the International Criminal Court, the Ottawa Treaty against land mines, and the Convention Against Cluster Munitions (all of which the US opposes), plus signing the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the Law of the Sea (which the US has not signed). Open trade and tourism with Cuba. Also no nukes. I could go on, but this is enough.
Dubh,
Thank you very much.
I can`t believe some of the ignorance I`ve read up-thread.
I`ll repost what`s been on the “hotlist” here for a few months about how to kill a Canadian. There have been no comments on that post.
“An Australian dentist wrote the following editorial to help define what
a Canadian is, so they would know one when they found one.
A Canadian can be English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German,
Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. A Canadian can be Mexican, African,
Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, Arab,
Pakistani, or Afghan.
A Canadian may also be a Cree, Metis, Mohawk, Blackfoot, Sioux, or one
of the many other tribes known as native Canadians. A Canadian’s
religious beliefs range from Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu,
or none. In fact, there are more Muslims in Canada than in Afghanistan
. The key difference is that in Canada they are free to worship as each
of them chooses. Whether they have a religion or no religion, each
Canadian ultimately answers only to God, not to the government, or to
armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.
A Canadian lives in one of the most prosperous lands in the history of
the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Charter of
Rights and Freedoms, which recognize the right of each person to the
pursuit of happiness.
A Canadian is generous and Canadians have helped out just about every
other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in
return. Canadians welcome the best of everything, the best products, the
best books, the best music, the best food, the best services, and the
best minds.
But they also welcome the least – the oppressed, the outcast, and the
rejected.
These are the people who built Canada . You can try to kill a Canadian
if you must as other bloodthirsty tyrants in the world have tried but in
doing so you could just be killing a relative or a neighbour. This is
because Canadians are not a particular people from a particular place.
They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who
holds to that spirit, everywhere, can be a Canadian.
Bravo, KNUCKLEHEAD, bravo!
Daredevil Don,
Thank you, you are a fellow “Canadian”.
Indeed, but not in fact. Actually, Canada is on my short list of countries to migrate to when the American Empire collapses. It is a bit cold, though, and God knows I have slipped and slid through enough cold winters here in Syracuse, NY. That’s why New Zealand looks so attractive to me.
I drove through Canada going from NY state to Michigan and back last summer – didn’t have time to stop, but the Canadian side looked to have substantial environmental preservation of the niagara falls region – once I drove past the health clinics and pharmacies lining the border on the Canadian side.
As I said downthread, the size of the actual land mass under Canadian jurisdiction is by FAR larger than the USA but of course much of that is largely uninhabitable by human beings, at least not without tremendous effort.
Canada’s geography is nowhere near as varied as the USA which includes Hawaii, Alaska and zones like Miami, which are considered tropical.
Secondly, Canada’s history is very difficult to separate from British history due to the fact they were only truly “independent” in 1982.
A lot of what makes America so varied is it’s HISTORICAL immigration, a lot of which was used as a work force (whether indentured, slave or otherwise). The vast majority of Asians and African-Americans in the USA are direct descendants of people brought to the USA because of this policy.
Canada’s immigration and tolerance to same is fairly NEW. I will be the first to acknowledge Canadians seem to me to be much more accepting, tolerant and even enthusiastic about new immigrants and those of various ethnic and national origin backgrounds.
Canada’s geography and other logistical factors (including being a British crown dependency in the early 1800’s) which prevented the economic “need” for slavery. A lot of the anti-Indian genocide was avoided in Canada not due to Canadian high mindedness and tolerance but simply because people of European descent were not a) digging out gold (to a far lesser extent) and b) wanting (as much) native land for commercial purposes.
The vast majority of the people in Canada live along the southern border of the US. The majority of the natives in THOSE areas were definitely wiped out. It’s the ones who lived where Europeans (rarely) wanted to live who survived.
The First Peoples I’ve spoken to all told me that in earlier periods there was some pretty grim attempts of forced assimilation into “white” culture, including outlawing of native languages and the like. There’s a mighty fine line between genocide and the deliberate extermination of what makes a culture a culture.
I definitely laud all of Canada’s achievements and I definitely think that would be a much finer country to live in than the USA in the current day. But a lot of what separates them as Canada (as opposed to Britain) is fairly recent.
I mean in some senses, this was to Canada’s benefit. They got their ideas on medicine from Britain’s NHS. And of course the British resolved the issue of slavery in a much more humane and less violent way (and avoided a war which killed what? 600k Americans in the USA in that little conflict).
I really get the strong sense that there is a much weaker form of national identity in Canada and that there is a serious rift between the English speaking populations and the French ones. It’s great to embrace diversity but the fundamental questions of what it means to even BE Canadian are far from settled and could lead to some pretty serious problems if it’s not addressed.
Let’s also not forget, it’s a whole lot easier to be TOLERANT and accepting of your neighbors when you live in one of the least densely populated countries on Earth.
Pax
Unreal.
National identity?
Every Canadian could not be prouder of their country.
Being bilingual myself & having gone through many of the “separatist” battles, including martial law when James Richard Cross (British trade commissioner) was abducted & murdered then the manhunt for those same (FLQ)who killed Pierre Laporte the labor minister, in 1970, I believe the country has even become more nationalistic. It is now a bilingual country & I`m happy for that, & to say that it has not been addressed is unfair.
“it’s a whole lot easier to be TOLERANT and accepting of your neighbors when you live in one of the least densely populated countries on Earth.”
I don`t understand that comment since Canadians are quite tolerant & accepting of all people regardless of the closeness. If you think they are that way because of fear of the much more populated US to the south, you are mistaken.
I may have taken your comments absolutely the wrong way.
I have a hard time getting the gist of the comment in it`s varied subjects.
Pax, with all respect, I believe you exaggerate the connection between Canada and Britain. In fact, there was a lot of friction. Canada passed the Slave Act in 1793 because of loyalists fleeing the American Revolution who wanted to bring their slaves. Also Britain, trying for better relations with the US, always seemed to side with the US on border questions and commercial treaties.
Yes, the Canadian constitution was repatriated in 1982, which was mostly a formality, but independence was complete back in 1931, after Canada led a movement of Commonwealth countries for all members to be independent, equal, and autonomous. This applied to Australia, too, which is still formally a constitutional monarchy.
Canada avoided revolution because it could see the aftereffects — like civil war and a continuing tradition of rebellion, anti-government agitation and outlawry.
As for diversity, Chinese and Hawaiian workers were in BC from its beginnings. Immigration law was changed in the late 60s to a point system that treats all applicants equally, without quotas or prohibitions.
Plenty of First Nations live on lands in the ‘border belt,’ like the Six Nations in Ontario and Quebec, the Mi’kmaq in the Maritimes and especially here in BC (including within Metro Vancouver). They weren’t wiped out. No question the residential school program of assimilation was terrible. But it wasn’t outright massacre or intentional starvation, as in the States.
As for geography, the US may include tropical land, but Canada has the high arctic, and the Canadian Shield.
Tommy Douglas was working on universal health care in Canada before the UK’s NHS was created. If Canada borrowed any ideas from the NHS, why couldn’t the US?
Canadians have a different sense of identity than Americans, based on sharing the same land and institutions. Somebody wrote that it’s ‘the first post-modern country,’ where people are encouraged to enjoy and celebrate multiple identities, and where the nation includes nations, like Quebec. Canadians have a quieter patriotism, too, based on gratitude rather than superiority.
Recently a survey asked Canadians what they thought defined their identity, and the top four replies were: 1) Multiculturalism, 2) The Charter of Rights and Freedoms (modeled after the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was drafted by a Canadian), 3) Universal health care, and 4) Not being American.
BTW, Canada formally apologized for the residential school program, with financial restitution:
Apology in Parliament (CTV news video)
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/apology-in-parliament/#clip59279
Day of Apology: Photo Gallery
The day was marked by ceremonies in 30 locations across Canada.
http://www.ctv.ca/gallery/html/apology_20080611/photo_0.html
As for tolerance and density, Canada’s greatest diversity is in the large (and dense) cities.
Also, just for the record, most of the history of slavery in the US, which started in 1619, occurred during the time when it was also a collection of Crown colonies, yes?
Yeah, but besides that?
And compare the Canadian Football League to the NFL.
The beer in Canada better too. Sorry, had to bring it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcHCxvnnP8
Hey Manny.
Good,
That`s why I consider myself a terran.
.
Just lost my appetite for Canada. May just as well choose Sarah Palin‘s Alaska after all.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Jean did it to show solidarity with the Inuit. It’s a travesty to compare her to Palin.
That`s not very nice at all.
You know that was a dig at the US, specifically Palin.
.
Sorry Head, can’t recall screwing up so badly ever. It wasn’t night time either, just doing a quick search for a headline of Palin and Canada. Never heard or read about Michaëlle Jean before, my bad!
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Oui,
No need to mention it, please.
I`d gone to your link & read it through, but refrained from quoting the last paragraph, because even if it was “snarky” I found it too offensive to post.
Nobody should be anybody`s “bitch”.
One day during a Quebec city winter carnival (Mardi Gras) a hotel maid freaked & police were called after a gory scene was found in one of the rooms.
A featured location at the carnival was a large igloo built by Inuit who lived in this hand made building of snow.
The Inuit, on first arrival had been generously provided with these hotel accommodations till they could get to the building site & also have adequate snow to build.
No one had told them it wasn`t really cool (pun intended) to be cutting up a seal in the hotel room tub.
Call this little story a folk tale but I post it to ease any friction that could possibly exist. I`ve alway been in awe of the bank of knowledge
you seem to be able to draw from.
You are a very important member of this community for your selfless & constant contributions.
I harbor no other feelings but appreciation.
better national parks? I’m not so sure of that booman.
canadians also have nearly-legal weed.
You forgot arena football and Mily Cyrus.
I’m a Canadian who has lived in the US for several decades. While I love many things about Canada, the US has many great things not found in Canada:
the Red Sox
New York City
the Grand Canyon
Woody Allen
the Declaration of Independence
… I could go on….
I wouldn`t know how to start a comment after that.
Mind boggling
How can you even compare two countries by bringing up a baseball team, a huge slash in the earth, a guy who married his (adopted) daughter, & as far as the Declaration of Independence, Canada has the Charter of
Rights and Freedoms, which recognize the right of each person to the
pursuit of happiness.
So please, do go on.
I’m late to this thread, but I just wanted to say I left the US for Canada years ago, haven’t gone back, even for a visit, and don’t miss anything.
Just saying,
In the late sixties I helped get Vietnam war dissenters, objectors, draft dodgers etc, settled in up there.
Carter`s amnesty (I think in 1976) provided many of these men with the right to return, but I`m still in touch with some who became permanent residents of Canada.
Strangely enough, I`m on this side of the border now & have been for many years, though I`m having strange thoughts of strings pulling me northward to home.
C’mon home, Canucklehead. You don’t belong down there. Every day, especially when I read the US news, I give thanks out loud that I’m in Canada.
Good call with the anuck reference.
Right now I have so many depending on me here including a daughter & my grand kids, rescued animals, a great lady, my reef tanks, & people who work for me, it would necessitate my winning the lottery, or that something catastrophic should happen, to just walk away, (but brining all my extended family with me).
I sometimes wish for that, though that seems selfish.
But I certainly haven`t ruled anything out yet.
And I definitely appreciate the call back to my country I think is the greatest.
should read Canuklehead