I never thought I’d be feeling ambivalent about the House passing health care reform. I knew I’d have big problems with the bill. I didn’t know I’d actually hate it this much. It’s a good thing the Democrats have Republicans to make them look good by comparison. They’ll have to milk that for all it’s worth, because the Democrats suck.
Update [2009-11-7 22:52:55 by Man Eegee]: Roll Call vote for the Stupak amendment.
Update [2009-11-7 23:36:46 by Man Eegee]: Here’s the link to the final passage of HR3962
of this process: No bill is better than a bad bill.
The shame of it all is that Obama has pissed away the most powerful nine months of his administration on it.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s sorta like rooting for chlamydia over cancer as a health choice. The democratic majority has become a depressing reality at best.
As you know, I have been a-feared for some time that the final result of this legislative process is going to absolutely screw me and my husband personally. I am still not assured that we won’t be forced by law to buy insurance that we cannot afford and will, thusly, become outlaws. The Democrats have totally screwed this process up and I expect our next president will be Huckabee or someone much worse.
Since Bush’s signing statements have gone unchallenged, could Obama just go ahead and “dictate” what this legislation ought to be? I mean, he’s already being accused of it, why not actually do it?
I have now read thru page 306 of the 1990 pages that comprise HR 3962. So far it looks like our household will be eligible to enter the “High Risk Pool Coverage” available after January 1, 2010 and also eligible for “Affordability Credits” that would put our monthly premiums into a range that we CAN AFFORD! OMG! Could it be possible that this bill does not entirely suck?!
This has led us to discuss the various ailments that we are suffering for which we have avoided medical treatment because of the expense. I wonder if our local provider network is ready for an upsurge in use. In our county, 20% are currently uninsured — imagine all of us calling for appointments early next year…
Any chance that the Supremes will declare that amendment unconstitutional because it bans private insurance from funding abortions and hence is a federal intrusion in the private right of abortion? After all the Hyde amendment bans the government from paying for abortions, but this bans private companies from funding abortions.
I’m calling on Roland Burris to back up his pledge to vote against any plan without a robust public option. My Congressman is the odious Roskam, former aide to Henry Hyde, who thought Hyde was too liberal, so I’m not wasting my time calling him.
It doesn’t ban private insurance from offering abortions. It bans subsidies. I no longer oppose it. It is pretty much abortion-neutral.
Another hit against women without money, isn’t it?
And why can’t we get rid of other government subsidies like war, Halliburton and Wall Street?
Since every family with incomes up to $88,000 will get some kind of subsidy, it pretty much bans abortion being paid for through insurance.
It basically bans abortions being paid for by any of the plans offered in the insurance exchange pools ONLY.
If you have large-employer-provided insurance, like 90% of people do, it does not affect you.
So, as I said, if you don’t have expensive insurance, you’re cooked.
Well, the truly poor you are on Medicaid, which never has, nor will ever cover abortions. If you buy your insurance through the Health Insurance Exchange pools, (indiviuals without employer coverage and small businesses) you won’t find a policy that covers it in the exchange.
It is in the interest of any insurer to pay for a cheap abortion instead of an expensive pregnancy, but since the federal gov’t doesn’t allow tax dollars to be spent on abortions, that’s just the way it is. If you work for some secular corporation, you will likely continue to receive abortion coverage in your policy, as is ideal. Everyone else continues to pay for them out of pocket as they always have.
I’m no expert on the subject, but I hear abortions are relatively cheap, as medical procedures go. And they’re getting cheaper as chemically-induced-miscarriage (RU-486, etc) abortions become more common. Keep in mind that follow-up care for any complications would likely be covered in any policy, as I understand it.
Being poor isn’t enough to be on Medicaid unless you are over 65, in which case abortion is moot.
If you are under 65, you have to be poor AND handicapped.
Don’t remember if it was Reagan or Clinton that signed off on this.
It’s this bill or destruction for the dems in 2010. This is the centerpiece of Obama’s first term. It DEFINITELY needs to pass, and it sucks of course. However, if this bill does not pass, many of the Blue Dogs are gonna be primaried, and many are gonna lose in the general.
If this bill goes down, NO ONE will do health care again for 20-30 years. 20-30 years. They will say “It sank Clinton and then it sank Obama. It’s the third rail”
Say whatever you want, but do not be confused: If this bill does not pass, the Democrats are toast in 2010.
If this bill goes down, NO ONE will do health care again for 20-30 years. 20-30 years. They will say “It sank Clinton and then it sank Obama. It’s the third rail”
Then the stupid Democrats will have learned the wrong lesson(just like they are with Deeds). Why would Democrats support a bunch of loser Blue Dogs? They won’t.
“Take that, you ungrateful foot. Always smelling bad.”
Yeah. And to add to your sentiment – even with all of the compromises, we’re still not assured of passage of anything.
But I am enjoying the debate. I’ve been watching all day. I am thinking that this really is better than nothing. I am sure many will disagree and I don’t want to argue, but this small victory we should be able to adjust things in the future so that the stuff that works well gets increased and the stuff that doesn’t gets reduced. Considering the forces we’re up against, it’s impressive that we’ve even made it this far. Maybe one day, before I die, we’ll have something close to what a European country already has. Beats what we’ve got now.
Off topic, sort of – I’ve never noticed what a charming woman Donna Edwards is before. Something very regal about that lady. And for a freshman congresswoman, she sure is doing a great job with the gavel today.
When this passes and is signed, it will be a victory.
At that point, we can begin to build on it to fix some of the problems. BUT, it MUST pass, no question at all. If it does not pass, the entire first Obama term will be in huge jeopardy. Political capital builds on success. If you pass this, you are stronger for the next bill. If this does not pass, your next bill is in more trouble.
It must pass. I believe that it will.
today we also got some good videoclips for campaign videos, or should I say anti-campaign videos
This bill sucks.
We should vote it down, and move on to the single-payer plan, funded by a new top income tax bracket of 55%, that just sailed through committee in the House and Senate, and sits next on the House’s agenda.
Oh, yeah, hey, wait a minute…
Every new Galbraith quote is better than the last one. The man had a very good way of phrasing things. He is probably distantly related to Dr. Johnson.
I think he understood, like Adam Smith back then, or Marx or the late, lamented Robert (The Worldly Philosophers) Heilbronner, and Krugman and Brad DeLong and a few others today — even the Austrians no matter how wrong headed — that properly conceived, economics is a branch of ethics, or history, or both, with a few equations to make it look good.
It’s not a science, which is both its curse and its blessing.
I always liked the idea behind the British PPE (Politics and Political Economy) degree.
had a feeling it would be a piece of shyt. didn’t want to be right.
What always impresses me when watching these all-day debates on major issues like this one is how hard the Democrats try to be truthful in their arguments and just how SHAMELESS the Republicans are in shitting out big flaming-turd-WHOPPERS, speaker after speaker.
To call them out on any of their lies just takes away from your time, so few do it. But seriously. MOST of the stuff I’ve heard out of the Republicans today is just shameful. If they have faith in any of the religious values they espouse, they will all burn for eternity in the hell that they claim to believe in. Just shameful.
What exactly “sucks” about this bill. Just curious. My own opinion is that some folks just like to bitch.
Agreed. It doesn’t do anywhere near as much good as we all wanted, but I don’t see where it does alot of harm. We’ll surely find that some people are harmed by it, like we always seem to do with any major legislation. But that can (hopefully) be fixed in future iterations.
Democracy just sucks, you know. Wouldn’t it just be easier to have rich dictators tell all of us peasants what to do, with no right to appeal their rulings? If we had absolutely no say, life would be so much less stressful.
Democracy is the worst possible form of government, unless you consider all of the other possibilities.
This is an impossible and terrible health care bill, but the alternative (the Republican) is worse, and not passing a bill at all is even a worse idea.
Where to start.
First, it is going to increase health insurance rates big time for the middle class because if you already have a job with employer paid health insurance you cannot participate in any public option plan.
Second, the public option plans will be too small to provide competition and will serve instead as sinks for the truly sick and ill which will jeopardize their stability.
Three, when your company based health insurance premiums go through the roof, you will not even be able to drop out because of the mandate. These costs for employer provided plans will go up because there is nothing in any of the plans to prevent them from doing so and they will own you, ride you hard, and put you up wet.
Four, the subsidies that will be provided for families up to about $88,000 will be totally inadequate and won’t even begin to cover health insurance increases. This will result in massive bankruptcy in the middle class and ensure Republican dominance forever.
I haven’t even gotten to some of the more egregious requirements but I can’t go on forever. Better this bill never sees the light of day.
Results of a large-scale (~5 million people) experiment with a purchase mandate, subsidies, penalties for going uninsured, and no public option are available here.
Will someone please tell me what is so impossible about this bill? I must have misread it.
It all depends on your viewpoint. If you like the fact that Pelosi is letting herself get steamrolled by a bunch of reactionary Democrats .. then by all means
voting just started on the Stupak Abortion Amendment – open for 15 mins. currently 9:57pm EST
so far 55 Dems have voted Yea. 211-176 so far with 44 no votes. looks like it’s going to pass. disgusting
From what I’ve heard, it really has to pass if the overall bill is to pass. We’ll just have to deal with it.
Shadegg present? Huh?
OMG! 1 Republican voted for it. Who?
Joseph Cao of Louisiana was the lone Republican, per C-Span.
Rep Chao , from Louisiana, he won the district of former Rep. William Jefferson, the guy with $90,000 in his freezer.
So now it’s a “Bi-Partisan” Bill…
Woohoo!
Piss on all you Mofos. Healthcare is on it’s way. If you don’t like it move to Somalia!
It’s been a LONG day of watching C-Span.
So what are the chances the Stupak Amendment will be removed in committee?
If I had to hazard a guess, I would say not very good.
They have to gain at least one vote for any vote they lose.
And they won’t be able to lose any votes for cloture in the Senate.
I don’t think that conference committee is going to have room to do anything – unless the WH comes down, the pres starts making calls, and members of both chambers follow WH directions.
If there is ONE pro-life Democrat in the Senate, the chance is ZERO.
Well, that pretty much answers that question in no uncertain terms.
Collins and Snowe are pro-choice. Casey and Nelson are anti-choice. It comes down to people like Pryor and Lincoln.