With all that’s going on in this country and the world right now, one would think that progressive bloggers have better things to do than carp back and forth at each other. Really what is the benefit of a pissing contest when the Republicans and their mega-corporate (Wall Street bankers, Insurance Companies, Big Oil, etc.) leash holders could be back in charge of Congress after November? Still some people can find nothing better to do than fight among themselves about trivial crap.
I am referring to Jane Hamsher’s recent rants against Obama and his staff in which John Cole at Balloon Juice was mentioned and Cole’s reply. Jane, find something better to do with your time.
I know you don’t like the Democrats we have in office now so why not focus your efforts on promoting and urging contributions to progressive candidates running campaigns in difficult Congressional districts even if the cause may seem hopeless. After all the Conservative Movement didn’t takeover Washington;s establishment in a day.
And John, why bother responding at all to an article in which you were a bit player at best, except to say it wasn’t true you were a member of Jornolist. Why bother going into attack mode? Not a good use of your time either.
Can we put away the knives and just try to prevent the worst case scenario and get back to sniping each other after the election? Because a Congress in the hands of the GOP would effectively destroy federal government in this country for the next two years, years I believe will be critical to the future of our nation.
I’m not big on everything the Obama administration has done (as those who read me regularly well know) but an outcome in which new Senators Rand Paul, Joe Miller, Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell and their mini-me GOP House look-alike teabaggers join the familiar Republican crazies already in Congress in January and assume control of the Legislative Branch is alarming at best. At worst it means a politics of increased nastiness and futility as the country’s economy goes into a death spiral, our infrastructure crumbles and The Club for Growth gets what it wants: a federal government that is at a standstill, helpless to accomplish anything positive.
It could even lead to outbreaks of worsening violence against liberals, African Americans, GLBT, Hispanics, Muslims and other not lily white Christian people from among the increasingly strident right wing fringe groups who are encouraged by these crazed cheerleaders of hate against anyone not a True Tea Party Believer Aren’t Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck bad enough already? Do we really want to see more of their ilk in Washington running investigations out the wazoo, de-funding government, and on our TV’s every night calling for Democratic and Liberal blood? We don’t want that do we?
So maybe for a brief time we could act like responsible adults. That’s what we’re supposed to be after all, the “reality based community.” Isn’t it?
Jeeze. A day or so off the intertubz and I miss yet another Pie Fight. My luck holds.
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One thing that’s been annoying me about Greenwald lately is this shit:
I don’t know why you think Jane Hamsher honestly wants to advance progressive politics rather than self-aggrandize, but you’re a much more charitable person than I am. I wrote her off long ago. I do agree that it wasn’t worth John’s time to engage her any more than it was worthwhile for Barney Frank to argue with a card table.
Hey, don’t minimize Barney Frank’s problem, he was arguing with a dining room table!
Excellent idea, sir.
Those contradictions don’t heighten themselves, people.
Every day, a real progressive Democratic party draws nearer, although there will be some bumpy spots enroute.
Nach Boehner, uns!
Gloating does not become Jane Hamsher, especially when she takes time out to use Axelrod’s statements to say “I told you so” about Rahm Emmanuel’s role in cutting deals with the healthcare industry.
There are two things going on that you should be aware of. Jane has gotten so tied into DC networks that Politico has become too frequent a source on FDL.
And the commenters range from progressives who are Democrats, those who are Greens, those who are socialists, and probably one or two more extreme. A lot of these folks are insistent that they be able to vote for someone that they choose instead of the Hobson’s choice we generally get in elections.
And the issue of state secrets and civil liberties is a hidden trap that might come back to bite the Obama administration if Darrell Issa gets the power of subpoena. Nate’s current probability is 211 Democrats in the House. We need to make sure that we get that number over 218 by November 2.
Glenn Greenwald should not be so sanguine about the Delaware race. Coons is at +13 probability. By comparison Jim DeMint is +33. One would thing that Christine O’Donnell would be down in Alvin Greene territory, but FoxNews is hyping her.
The problem with the election is not the sniping between a very few progressive bloggers. It is that a lot of Republicans are going home to the GOP in districts that Democrats picked up in 2008 on Obama’s coattails. And the greater part of the Democratic coalitions in those districts are not progressives.
The folks who really aren’t helping are the incumbents who hobbled Obama’s agenda and are now running away from Obama and trying to talk Republican-speak. Jason Altmire, Kathy Dahlkemper, even Jared Polis have not been helpful to the overall Democratic campaign. Nor has the failure of House Democrats to bring middle class tax cuts to a vote. Nor has the Senate’s failure to pass the Defense Appropriations Act with the DADT repeal and the Dream Act (and the Democrats who provided cover for Republican obstruction).
In North Carolina, progressives are working their butts off for Elaine Marshall and Billy Kennedy and shoring up support for Democratic incumbents. In addition to the state and local elected offices. I have no idea where the progressive pissing contest is hurting, but I suspect it is most apparent in progressive strongholds like the Bay area of California.
And BTW, Jane has found something better to do with her time; she is actively pushing Prop 19 in California.
Pray tell, where are the funds to pay for this 3 trillion* dollar screwup?
As far as I’m concerned, there shouldn’t be a vote. Ever.
*number quoted from P. Krugman’s piece the other day.
Here’s the dirty little secret. The middle class tax cut has little likelihood of passing. But the Democrats pissed away an opportunity to show the Republicans as wanting tax cuts for the rich and spending cuts on unemployment that could have provided a clear distinction between the parties.
Should it have actually passed, the middle class tax cut (actually an extension of the tax cut) would have put cash in the hands of people who would pay down debt or pressing bills. And a few lucky families would use it to shop. That is stimulative and by priming the pump for re-employment would pay back the temporary loss.
The tax cut for the rich, however, would have become just more money sitting on the table waiting for demand for goods and services to increase, which is waiting for consumers to have money to spend again in the midst of continuing to lag in re-employment to provide income so that consumers can buy stuff.
The three trillion from the Bush years is sunk cost. It’s not coming back. It drove borrowing for war and general government operations that do not decrease the cost of doing business in the future, as infrastructure investments do.
Dealing with the deficit and the national debt requires ending two wars, reducing defense spending, returning employment to levels where unemployment is short-term and represents transition from one job to another, and revising the tax code to be more progressive.
Actually, I’m rooting for Angle. The Senate will never grow a spine while Reid is there.
Just because Reid is re-elected doesn’t necessarily mean that he remains majority/minority leader in the next Senate.
Angle is flat-out dangerous.
I love the sentence “we should act like responsible
adults,” Jane Hamsher is a liberal not a progressive and she is a responsible “adult.” So is Greenwald.
And so am I. The democrats are a party of poll watchers and instead of inspiring and changing minds and hearts they quake with fear every time a poll doesn’t go their way. The Republicans are brilliant manipulators of public opinion. Hell when the democrats took over Congress in 06 Bush still got every spending bill he supported without the drama. Our side just went along.
So Jane, Greenwald and the rest of us liberals don’t, in fact, have a party that represents us. And no amount of fear mongering and threats from the Obama administration is going to change this. We’ve been told by the Obama administration to f*k off, we’ve been called fking retards by Rahm and no member of
Obama’s inner circle has shown regret for these comments. I have never heard a republican tell the conservative base to fk off. They embrace their base
The democrats shun theirs. The public option never had a chance. I don’t blame Obama. The platform he ran on never stood a chance. I just can’t figure out if he’s a liar or just unable to lead his party of poll watchers. I suspect both statements are true.
Gibbs has stated that we have nowhere else to go. Well yeah Mr. Gibbs that is entirely true. So why would we want to work for your party. You just told us what you think of us. And you let us know in no uncertain terms that our work was welcome but our agendas and our concerns aren’t welcome. Like good corporations everywhere when the workers want something more for their efforts it’s called whining.
We get it and we’re about to f
k off. A lot of us recognize abusive relationships and people who have the power to make us feel bad about our hopes and dreams for change.
And we have learned to tell our abusers to f
*k off.
That’s where a lot of are and nothing in this post has inspired me to change. I am not afraid.
Unfortunately in this election we liberals and progressives are not the folks who will make the margin of victory, even in California and Massachusetts.
And at some point we will learn that politicians don’t listen to those who are so changeable in their support. Politicians listen to supporters who will be there over the long haul.
Democrat politicians listen to the donors especially the rich ones. Those of us who canvass, gather signatures, phone bank, etc. are expected to get in line and work for the party.
Wall Street had it’s best year ever. There are 19% more billionaires in America…but the democrats are not going to tax them because the republicans have been brilliant at labelling phasing out the Bush tax cuts as the biggest increase in taxes in history. A big lie.
Peterson a guy who has devoted half his fortune to ending social security is funding Obama’s cat food commission.
These issues won’t be addressed until after the election either because the democrats don’t want their blue dogs to lose or because the base won’t like what they are planning for us. Cuts in social services, social security and no taxing billionaires for a start.
As long as the party is held hostage by the conservative wing we will lose and we will lose big.
It wasn’t the blue dog supporters that put Obama in office it was a rebellion against G.W.Bush and the republicans. And those of us who rebelled are thoroughly disheartened and discouraged. We didn’t vote and work for bi-partisanship.
I don’t like the republican agenda but dammit I respect them because I know what they are about.
We are about preserving the status quo and poll watching and pleasing rich donors. It’s not working and lecturing us, calling us immature, calling us f**cking retards isn’t working either.
Inspiring us worked. Letting us down doesn’t.
The whole discussion is effed up because neither the White House nor progressives are looking at the reality.
The reality is that most of the seats in danger of being lost are held by Blue Dogs or New Democrats who have run away from Obama and his agenda.
The second reality is that lost of the House means that John Boehner or some other Republican (if Boehner loses) becomes Speaker of the House. And when Democrats regain a majority in the House, either Steny Hoyer or some other Democrat becomes Speaker. You lose the House. You lose Pelosi as Speaker.
The third is that the geographic distribution of progressives is such that they cannot affect this election one way or another. Maybe a small effect on Senate races, but none on House races.
The fourth is that the White House has been confined to a bubble that has distanced itself, sometimes deliberately, from progressives. They are under the illusion that progressive media is depressing the vote, which is not true at all. The corporate media and FoxNews are depressing the Democratic vote. Most Democrats don’t listen to or watch progressive political shows; there isn’t the market share out there yet for that. And folks within the Democratic party who are afraid of a progressive agenda for a variety of reasons have not disabused the White House of this notion but have promoted it. And BTW so have progressive bloggers who consider themselves the exclusive base of the Democratic Party.
We overestimated our impact on the Democratic victories in 2008 because of the parochial nature of the progressive-liberal blogosphere. We set ourselves up for disappointment. But that is neither here nor there. The reality is that Pelosi’s speakership is being held hostage by a bunch of Blue Dogs who antagonized their constituents by either voting too much with the President or too little. If you are not in their district, this does not affect you at all.
But you can contribute resources to progressives who are running as challengers to Republicans. Top of the list: Justin Coussoule, Billy Kennedy, Tarryl Clark, Roxanne Conlin, Elaine Marshall, Jack Conway, Chris Coons, Scott McAdams, Matt Campbell, Rob Miller.
I didn’t find John Cole’s response to be over the top or even unhelpful, much less an example of “attack mode.” Cole’s blunt, and that (along with his perspective and humor) is why I love balloon-juice. Perhaps If a reader’s not familiar with Cole’s style and voice it comes across as cranky. But in this instance, Hamsher completely made up two “facts” about Cole. In what universe would a blogger not want to and deserve to correct the record? Cole’s tone was about right for challenging lies, imo, and “pissing at one another” seems to find false equivalence in lying about someone, as Hamsher did, and that person defending himself by calling her on it, as Cole did.
For the two statements that Cole responded to, he was correct in his criticism.
They could spend their time and energy supporting Rep. Bachmann’s opponent elected!
That would be very worthwhile!
replace ‘supporting’ with ‘getting’
And her name if you are contributing on ActBlue is Tarryl Clark.
They didn’t take your advice, Steve.
I agree with this comment:
I found this to be the case on Financial Reform. They called me a Red-State mole.
Also, guess who was right about Merkley-Levin being a shit foundation for the Volcker Rule? Oh, right:
http://moneymorning.com/2010/09/02/jpmorgan-2/
True, the entirety of the provision wasn’t included, but the conference committee used Merkley-Levin as a template in their Volcker Rule negotiations.
FDL fail.
MyDD also jumped the shark a while back.
I saw Jerome Armstrong actually write this in the comments of a post dedicated to calling Pres. Obama a neo-con: “Obama is a terrible President. Way worse than I ever imagined. He’s a disaster for the Democratic Party.”
It boggles my mind a bit that this is the same guy who wrote “Crashing the Gates” with Markos. Talk about going off the deep end…
He’s always hated Obama, though. Way back during the primaries. Just ask BooMan; he’d come over here and have nice little arguments about how Obama couldn’t possibly win the GE.
Just look at MyDD. It has fallen off a cliff. Does anyone even go there anymore? It used to be pretty lively, but once Obama got elected, that place became a ghost town.
There is nothing better to do with her time. Hacks like her and John Amato are there to toss gasoline on any fire they can find.