First off, I want to send my condolences to the Edwards family on the occasion of the passing of Elizabeth at age sixty-one. That is far too young, and I know her children will sorely miss her presence in their lives.
I’m back home now, somewhat exhausted from my trip from Orlando. I see that progressives are flipping out over the deal the president struck with the Republicans. Before you get all huffy, consider Ezra Klein’s point:
If you look at the numbers alone, the tax cut deal looks to have robbed Republicans blind. The GOP got around $95 billion in tax cuts for wealthy Americans and $30 billion in estate tax cuts. Democrats got $120 billion in payroll-tax cuts, $40 billion in refundable tax credits (Earned Income Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit and education tax credits), $56 billion in unemployment insurance, and, depending on how you count it, about $180 billion (two-year cost) or $30 billion (10-year cost) in new tax incentives for businesses to invest.
But that’s not how it’s being understood. Republicans are treating it as a victory, and liberals as a defeat. Which raises two separate questions: Why did Republicans give Obama so much? And why aren’t Democrats happier about it?
It’s interesting to look at it that way. Who got paid? How much did they get paid? Why did the Republicans decide to grab the short end of the stick? What was in it for them?
Here’s Ezra’s answer:
A number of sources with direct knowledge of the negotiations have fingered the estate tax as the major player in the size of the deal. “Republicans were extremely eager to get benefits for the top tenth of a percent of Americans,” says one senior administration official.
It was the estate tax, in this telling, that secured Republican support for, among other things, the two-year extension of the refundable tax credits and the payroll tax cut. Republicans believe that the two-year extension of the estate tax at Lincoln-Kyl levels will turn into a permanent extension of the estate tax at Lincoln-Kyl levels.
So, here we are in this down economy with millions out of work and losing their homes, and the Republicans are willing to offer a little relief if, in exchange, they can lower the tax on estates worth over five million dollars. That’s their big ‘ask.’
Meanwhile, on the other side, there are still too many people griping about not getting a pat on the head.
My conversations with various progressives over the past 24 hours have convinced me that the problem is less the specifics of the deal — though liberals legitimately dislike the tax cuts for the rich, and rightly point out that Obama swore to let them expire — than the way in which it was reached. Put simply, Obama and the Democrats didn’t fight for them. There were no veto threats or serious effort to take the case to the public.
Instead, the White House disappeared into a closed room with the Republicans and cut a deal that they’d made no effort to sell to progressives. When the deal was cut, the president took an oblique shot at their preferences, saying “the American people didn’t send us here to wage symbolic battles or win symbolic victories.” And this came a mere week or two after the White House announced a federal pay freeze. The pattern, for progressives, seems clear: The White House uses them during elections, but doesn’t listen to, or consult them, while governing. In fact, it insults them, and then tells them to quiet down, they got the best bargain possible, even if it wasn’t the one they’d asked for, or been promised.
I have concerns about how this deal will impact the budget deficit, how it will frame questions about Social Security’s solvency, progressive taxation, the estate tax, and the president’s willingness to pick (and win) a fight. But I don’t care that progressives weren’t ‘consulted’ or that we were supposedly ‘insulted’ (again). He got a better deal than I thought was possible. In fact, because I thought no decent deal was possible, I advised him to just threaten to let all the taxes expire and see which party blinks first.
I wanted that fight, and I think progressives are itching for a real fight. But just because I want a fight doesn’t mean that a fight is the best idea at any given time. The long-term structural deficit is important. But the economy is also important. And the president needs to be creative to get any kind of stimulus out of the Republican Party. So, I have concerns about this deal, but I think it was actually some pretty savvy bargaining.
What’s funny about it is how little say the Tea Partiers had. Evidently, they were not consulted or respected either.
Republicans have argued that it’s not the policies they oppose — it’s that Democrats aren’t paying for them. But perhaps the most important enabler of the deal is that Republicans don’t care about paying for them, either. The basic deal was that if the Obama White House would give the Republicans their unpaid-for tax cuts, Republicans would give the Obama White House their unpaid-for tax cuts.
To put this in perspective, consider that last week, all Washington could talk about was the potential for a deal on deficit reduction. This week, it actually got a big deficit deal — but it was a deficit-expansion deal. In the world that politicians claim they live in — where the deficit is the overriding issue — the deal couldn’t have worked. But we don’t live in that world. In this world, tax cuts, not deficits, are the Republicans’ central concern, and stimulus, not deficits, obsesses the Democrats.
I know this is exactly what the country voted for in November. Not.
How do you reconcile Obama’s rhetoric today that the GOP are hostage takers, while he hasn’t seemingly backtracked from the idea that the GOP are essentially good-faith negotiators, in democracies, people disagree, that’s what elections are for, etc. If they are hostage takers, then shouldn’t we stop pretending they are negotiating in good faith and that all of this just boils down to disagreements? If one party (the dems) want to sit at the table and hammer out deals and the other party (GOP) wants to take hostages, isn’t that a wee bit of a problem?
And if Obama didn’t want brush back from liberals, he could have included Pelosi or someone like Sherrod Brown in the negotiations. I could come, off the top of my head, a dozen things (infrastructure bank, EFCA, liberal judges appointed to courts, liberal appointees to govt agencies) that if you gave me I would say, “OK, we’re good.” He’d rather punch hippies then give them goodies- that’s his decision, but its silly for him to get upset about liberal push back.
Because it is permanent high end tax relief. Say whatever crappy little excuse you wish to offer, the tax cuts at the upper end are permanent. That’s because when you push them up against the 2012 election, which is where they are, they are not going to be rescinded.
So that needs to be the frame. It’s not this crappy piece of shit that Odumbshit got for the basic rational of the Democratic Party.
He has bargained away all the useful goods, and got 2 candy bars and a Hershey’s kiss.
Agreed. Its a strawman to say the left doesn’t want Obama to cut deals. They don’t want him to cut crappy deals. Sometimes walking away is better than a crappy deal, and in a game of repeat players, sometimes showing the opposing side that you are unpredictable and are prone to shutting down negotiations if you don’t get what you want is a great strategy to getting what you want.
Shorter Obama: The GOP can make threats and negotiate tough. I can’t because I care about working class and middle class Americans.
The GOP knows Obama is incapable of walking away from a deal so they use that against them. DeMint is already against the deal.
demint’s against it ALREADY?
that is fucking HILARIOUS.
How could he not be against it and have any credibility with the Baggers? If anyone needs to be against deficit spending, it’s DeMint.
i meant hilarious in the sense that i knew that was coming. Demint doesn’t oppose it because of deficits, by the way: he opposes it because the tax cuts aren’t permanent.
they got a tax cut deal out of hostage taking, they go concessions on medicare by hostage taking, and every time the Republicans get what they want they demand more.
How much gets given away, B? When does it stop?
No. He opposes the extension of unemployment benefits which Teabagger O’Donnell likens to the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
DeMint is the leader of the Baggers, and he has to echo their crap and stand by it. Boehner can feel free to tack on another trillion in debt without even blushing, but DeMint has a different role. His role is to foster, care for, and nurture the racist/libertarian base.
we’re both right
this hurts my brother:
Great. he’s already in the hole.
Whatever the specifics of the tax deal, Obama is pissing away political capital at a frightening rate. There are very few Democrats who are going to view this as a win– the optics are terrible, because the rich are getting an extension of their tax breaks, something Obama campaigned against in very specific terms. Political junkies like Ezra Klein might dig into the details and find some things he likes, but the mass of voters are going to be disappointed in Obama– again. I just don’t see people coming to the polls in support of a ‘let’s compromise with a bunch of assholes’ agenda.
of Obama if he broke his promise for middle class tax relief and instead allowed middle class rates to go up in order to win a showdown with Republicans? Democrats who post on blogs are angry but I really don’t believe the average American voter will care all that much that the wealthy got to keep their tax cuts as long as they did too.
Let’s say he doesn’t make this deal. Come January all revenue bills have to start in the Republican controlled house. Boehner attaches permanent cuts to everything and either the Senate holds the line or Obama vetoes middle class tax relief. I doubt voters are going to say hey at least the rich guy across town also lost out.
Do you know what “middle class tax relief involves”? I seriously doubt it, because it is somewhere around $400 per married couple. It is a remarkably small amount.
for those making < $500,000 (likely to be everyone here).
It’s very hard to find specific figures, because the fascists conflate low and high incomes but
“For those who earn less than $500,000, the tax increase is “relatively low,” said Roberton Williams, an economist with the Urban Institute in Washington who studied the report. “It’s less than 1 percent.”
So, this MENDACIOUS CRAP is JUST MENDACIOUS CRAP.
Go ahead, MAKE MY DAY – I WILL PAY that 1%.
For me it would be close to $1000 a year.
Here is some data on what Americans could face
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/CutYourTaxes/what-if-the-bush-tax-cuts-expired.aspx
It would have an affect on many many voters and I think they would hold it against Obama and the Democrats. Far more than their compromise to keep tax cuts for the wealthy in tact
That is a Wall Street Journal reporter. In other words, it is worthless shit.
The Tax Foundation calculator under different scenarios. You are welcome to do the same at this site
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/26548.html
How about this:
Citizens for Tax Justice
This is ridiculous. Obama has sold out. He can rationalize all he wants. Fear is Obama’s motivation. Write Congress to vote no the people can still stop this insanity. Let the tax cuts expire. All of them. We are going to go through the pain of Ireland and Greece. Fuck this capitalist purity bullshit.
What do you think Obama should have done? Played chicken with the GOP while millions of people lost their jobless benefits? You people blow my fucking mind.
Yes play the game they would get their benefits. Stay off the drugs and your “fucking mind” won’t get blown.
Don’t see anything in your comment about what you would have done in Obama’s place. Your snark in place of substances speaks for itself.
And according to this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/us/politics/08impact.html
Certain low-income people might as well bend over. Explain the tax cuts for the rich to them.
It does say that keeping the Making work Pay credit would be of greater value to the low income (Individuals under $20K, families under $40K) than the payroll tax holiday. I can agree that some specifics of the deal could have been improved on the margins. I don’t agree that letting all the cuts expire along with not reinstating unemployment is the right strategy at all. People of the above mentioned incomes would suffer even more if that happened. No payroll tax holiday and no making work pay credit. No child deduction.
I also believe that if there had been a vote on this before the election we would have been in a much better position.
Screw this deal we are now a party to the tax cut insanity. I don’t care if for a short time the middle class gets more. In the long run the Oligarchy wins. Screw it I have had it. Let the Bush tax scam expire!
The two are not linked. Stop this crap about the linking of UI and the tax cuts for the rich.
I am going to pay more in taxes. I am not above 250, but our family is doing better this year. We will pay more than I care to think, but it is time to realize that the free ride is over. We need to be realistic, and we need to get progressivism back into the tax system.
Fuck these tax cuts. Let them all expire.
is linking them. They shouldn’t be linked but unfortunately the GOP is willing to play hardball with the livelihoods of the unemployed to get their tax cuts for income over $250K. Let’s say the cuts and UI expires can you honestly say that Boehner won’t link the two in the next Congress? I think it is a pretty sure bet he will.
Keep in mind that FICA is a split tax. Half of that 2% holiday goes to the bosses, not the workers. The Real Americans only see 1% savings, and it moves up the day when SSI starts paying principal… which gives the GOP yet another drum to beat about how we can’t afford to HAVE SSI at all.
I expect that drum to have a dozen people pounding it in shifts, 24/7/365, in a little over a month.
The GOP/TBP didn’t give ANYTHING up from their perpective, because they know that again, within a month or so, every single bill that goes to the Senate will include provisions to defund and dissolve Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Fed.
And they know damn well that Obama just doesn’t have the cojones or the strategic sense to fight them, and they can write their own ticket… which won’t include the Bill of Rights, the 13th, 14th, 16th, amendments but WILL reinstate poll taxes and Means-Tested voting rights.
And we’ll all live happily ever after. Of course for 98% of us “ever after” will be measured in weeks, but hey, no plan is perfetc.
The payroll holiday is exclusively on the employee side.
And the tax cuts for the rich were his signature issue, a matter of principle.
And the Republicans are fair and balanced people who only want the best for every single American.
And the Teabaggers aren’t racist, they’re simply opposed to Socialism.
Oh, and pigs will fly on solid gold wings.
Let’s deal with facts:
Still want to make erroneous arguments?
Let’s deal with reality.
We’re dealing with REPUBLICANS.
So what?
The deal is that the payroll holiday only applies to the employees’ contributions, meaning that your comment was 100% wrong. I corrected your error.
The deal’s not done yet, Booman…. and the rearranging and rewriting and “how do we work around this and block that and screw this other thing” started five seconds after the wingers walked out of the room.
You apparently trust them to actually enact what they’ve kinda sorta agreed to in principle, maybe, and then you expect them to honor that.
Quite frankly, I’d be very surprised, just on form to date, if the sociopaths considered that what they agreed to yesterday is binding on them this morning.
Because if they were in the habit of honoring their agreements we wouldn’t be HAVING this discussion, now, would we?
The republicans will pull the football away …….. again.
And Obama will give up a little more ……. again.
Then replay the above …… again.
It’s the same pattern we have seen for two damn years, yet everyone, EVERYONE, still believes the football will stay this time.
It won’t.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you, fool me five times and I am a god damn idiot who cannot wipe his own ass.
nalbar
Who is this “everyone” you refer to? I have been looking at the blogs, and I see maybe 20% of democrats who are willing to let The Great Bootlicker have a pass on this one.
He’s licked his last boot that I have any interest in. I’m cutting loose. No more Obama for me.
Well said, Booman.
Boo,
Let’s say it was a good deal. I’m not sure it was, but for the sake of argument let’s say it was. Then the real question is, if there HAD been a fight, would we have wound up with a better deal? I tend to think so, for the simple reason that pubic opinion was very much on our side. And it seemed as if the WH was not acknowledging that or trying to do anything with it.
I think the UI was the stinker — the very fact that UI was used as a bargaining chip by the GOP, and Obama accepted that. Even though his reason was good: he didn’t want to play games with the most vulnerable, the unemployed, risk leaving them in the lurch — or the middle class either. Even so, the GOP would not have been able to defend opposing UI or a middle-class extension, so were they valid bargaining chips? Obama should have called their bluff.
The bottom line is, if Congress doesn’t like this deal, they bloody well better come up with something better, and fast. Basically, they are pissed off that Obama negotiated with the GOP behind closed doors, when it’s a legislative prerogative. Pelosi did what she should have done, and the House passed what they should have passed. Now Senate, if you don’t like it, come up with something better.
Let’s say it’s a good deal, BooMan. When it comes to dealing with the debt limit, it’s going to be the same thing all over again (and Yglesias and Dday have been trying to point this out for a while):
“We won’t vote to raise the debt limit until we get this, this and this. Do it, or the country, your precious middle class, get shot in the head. Do you think we’ll suffer? Wtf do we care. You’re in charge, the wealthy never suffer, we’ll ride the tide into the White House blaming you.”
Why else would they think of anything else? Obama just said he did this so as not to harm the hostage — and that is the significant structural advantage that conservatives have over liberals, which is why I defended Obama during the health care debate. But sometimes you need a sniper over your shoulder to take out the captors while you “negotiate” over the phone.
I take things issue by issue, and use math. The math says: the votes are there for unemployment insurance if you fight for them, and we didn’t need this POS deal to get them. If you want to talk math, look elsewhere:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/12/7/926685/-Over-100-House-Dems-oppose-tax-cut-deal,-changes
-now-likely
That’s the reality; the votes aren’t there for Obama’s precious little deal.
I thought all night and watched Obama’s excuses today. I have come to the conclusion he blew it and that he has absolutely no spine. More transfer of wealth. We may have just lost Social Security. $950 billion more in debt. What was the cost of extending unemployment benefits without giving away everything under the sun? $30 billion? My god this is stupid.
I can’t take it anymore and I’m a gutless compromiser myself. He had the Repugs trapped naked to the world. All to see that they are driven by greed and only greed. But no…I want to be accepted. I want to fit in. See a psychiatrist dude. We can’t afford this anymore.
I’d rather he killed every single GOPer in Washington than make this deal, but whatever.
Tax cuts of any kind are wrong. The country doesn’t need them but jobs instead. I don’t believe a lick of what anyone is projecting what these tax breaks are going to produce in terms of jobs.
A 900 billion dollar jobs program would have erased the deficit and the debt in a short time.
But whatever.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/obama-dresses-down-sanctimonious-and-purist-progressives.
php?ref=fpa
Ha, did you miss it? He got to do his favorite thing, attack the left.
Raptor, I’m not happy with the deal, but I think if we read Obama’s statement carefully, it’s an oversimplification to say he’s attacking the left.
Take the following excerpts:
“This country was founded on compromise. I couldn’t go through the front door of this country’s founding. And you know if we were really thinking about ideal positions, we wouldn’t have a Union.”
“And so, my job is to make sure that we have a North Star out there-what is helping the American people live out of their lives?”
“I’m keeping my eye on the long term, and the long fight.”
“let’s make sure that we understand this is a long game, this is not a short game.”
Taken together, that suggests to me that Obama’s frame of reference is not the post WW II liberal v. conservative battle over the scope of the welfare state. It’s the African-American freedom struggle.
In that context, “North Star” is not a throw-away metaphor. It’s an image with a resonant history—the star to follow to freedom, the name of Fredrick Douglass’ abolitionist newspaper.
In that context, people understand that their struggle is a long-term (years, decades, centuries) battle against powerful and dangerous opponents.
In that context, people understand that compromise is a daily and necessary survival skill.
In that context, people understand that the discipline and determination necessary to continue fighting for the long haul often don’t allow for the luxury of symbolic victories.
I’m not saying I agree with everything Obama is doing. But as his allies, I think we owe it to him and to ourselves, to take seriously how he views the current situation.
My name’s not Raptor. That’s a story I’m writing. Look down a bit and you’ll see my name is MNPundit. Anyhow we sure do have a different frame of political reference.
The thing that will help the American people, hell the human race, live their lives the most is the destruction of the Republican Party of the United States. On issue after issue they are the stumbling block. On issue after issue their position is one that makes life worse. In regards to climate change they are threatening the existence of the human race.
The problem is we don’t have years. Have you seen the projections of what the world will look like in terms of climate in 100 years? If you have kids now you may well be consigning your grandchildren to a living hell.
Anything that makes the GOP stronger is a step backwards. Progress will only come when they are totally discredited as a party and collapse to be replaced by a different political party the way they in turn displaced the Whigs.
Frankly I simply can’t see how Obama’s actions are making people much freer in the long term. The lefty ideology, the only ideology that can save us, is more discredited or marginalized than ever.
Oops! Sorry about that, MNPundit. (That’s what I get for posting when I’m not fully awake.)
To move from the political and historical to the philosophical, your post raises (or at least implies raising) the question of how do we respond to evil on a mass scale.
The last century gave us plenty of opportunities (world wars, genocides, colonialism, fascism, state socialism, etc.) to reflect on that question. And it seems this century will as well.
To go back a bit further, to the mid-19th century, US opponents of the evil of slavery came up with many answers to that question. Harriet Tubman raided plantations and deprived slaveowners of their property. John Brown (almost alone among pre-Civil War whites) lived and worked with black people, and would kill white people to defend blacks. William Lloyd Garrison advocated separation from the federal government and pacifist resistance to slavery. Abraham Lincoln thought it neither desirable nor possible for blacks and whites to live together as equals, and desired above all else to preserve the Union.
I’d like to see Obama criticize the Republican “hostage-takers” more consistently and persistently too. All I’m saying is that, when I read his statements carefully, I get the sense that he does appreciate the depth of Republican nihilism, and that he’s dealing with it the best he knows how.
He may well be dealing with it the best way he can.
But in what job can you go to the bosses after two years and say “Sorry, the only fights I haven’t lost are the ones I didn’t fight, but I’m doing my best” and NOT expect at the very least an extended and painful trip to the woodshed?
If Obama were a Republican his OWN party would have impeached him by now…. and instead we have D’s arguing that we can stretch every possible position and twist every bit of logic we can find to let him off the goddam hook.
I’ve actually come to think that if Obama’s NOT a Republican, at least a third of the Democrats are.
Oh also, DeMint has come out against it. He went up against McConnell and beat him strait up on the earmarks thing in name. So hey, we’ll see.
You’ve still got your head in the sand. The Compromiser-in-Chief’s rhetoric is all about his willingness to fight.
Until the fight starts.
Maybe with a little more of Obama’s savvy bargaining Social Security can be eliminated. That’ll teach those damn Republicans to mess with HIM.
These tax cuts were put in place ten years ago so the uber-ultra-filthy-stinking-rich could create jobs and help people get rich.
And they did.
In places the vast majority of us (and them) couldn’t find on a map, where a person who has a job paying $2.00US a day IS rich beyond dreams of avarice….
We the people of the United States, on the other hand…
Well… those jobs had to come from SOMEWHERE and the aforementioned upper .5% SURE weren’t giving up anything themselves…
So more of the same can ONLY be good for the rest of
us.
Thank you, sir; May I have another?
correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t the usual way for a Prez to go about getting something done in Congress something like this:
a) draw up proposal
b)meet with your party leadership to determine feasibility, support, and strategy
c)meet with opposition party and gauge their opposition and willingness to support
d)meet again with his own party to refine startegy
e)get it done
seems like Obama’s way is this:
a) draw up proposal
b)meet with opposition party leadership to determine feasibility, support, and strategy
c)meet with his own party and tell them what was going down
d)meet again with some party to refine startegy
e)get it done
Setting aside all the emotional commentary, my read of the press conference is Obama is saying that this deal will help the economy to improve. Now, the only timeframe that matters to him is going to be the next two years, so he’s saying, this is the best deal I could get to improve the economy in the next two years. So he’s staked his credibility as an economic manager on there being a significant recovery. I would have more confidence in him if he hadn’t similarly staked his credibility as CIC on some sort of nebulous amelioration in Afghanistan via the surge. Unfortunately he’s increasingly appearing like just another president trying to cover up the intractable problems and policy failures of the day with forceful presidential rhetoric.
It has been hard to find any non hair-on-fire analysis about this topic from any viewpoint. So I say, thank you BooMan.
Thanks Boo. I needed your medicine this morning. I couldn’t watch MSNBC for more than a minute last night with all their doom and gloom. Spent two hours in a college financial aid meeting last night for kid #1 and THAT got me all depressed.
“I know this is exactly what the country voted for in November. Not.”
Perhaps. People voted (again) for change. They want the fighting to end and they want something to be done. Actual responsible governing.
It seems the GOP is claiming victory because there wasn’t a fight. And the Left is down because there wasn’t a fight. Meanwhile, Obama did what I and many sent him to DC to do which is cut through all the Red/Blue crap and govern.
Millions of Americans who don’t give a crap about Red or Blue right now compared to how are they going to survive without unemployment checks are feeling helped this morning. Obama did that. The Republicans would put them on the street Christmas morning. The Left would tell them their suffering is for a good and important cause. But they’d still be suffering.
It is not (just) about the fight. It is about the result first. But in terms of the fight, Obama may be giving the GOP just enough rope to hang themselves. Come 2012 we better see some economic results from them AND progress on the deficit. If we don’t see both they have some answering to do.
AND I think Obama is putting it out there to the left that they need to do more to MAKE him do more. This can’t be all on him. If the Dems in Congress had their act more together, if the grassroots were more mobilized and effective, crap like the last election would not happen and the GOP could not pull the crap they are pulling.
OK I feel a little better. But just a little. 🙂
Your economic numbers don’t add up. A temporary decrease in the ss tax leads to a further deficit in the ss fund that will not be offset by an increase in hiring to offset the loss. I don’t know yet if the offset is shared equally but if it is employers especially, S corps, have no had a direct government transfer of wealth to them as they pay no more taxes-the continued lowering of their tax rates and don’t contribute to the ss fund, income subject to it stops at 109K. As the wealthy don’t spend their income the multiplier effect doesn’t even take place.
The business tax incentives do not mean that the money is spent here in America contributing to job growth, increases in tax revenue and money for the ss trust fund, medicare trust funds and either entitlement trusts here in the USA. Further the tax incentive code to invest idea is a joke when most corporations can go into the open market and borrow money for 100 yrs at between 3.5 and 4%. Then any profit made on the money is subject to a tax rate I or you would die to pay as financial engineering guarantees the profits will be measured as capitial gains.
The extension of unemployment money while being spent immediately doesn’t lead to further demand it simply keeps demand a a given level. Further everyday this spending is actually declining because the actions of the FED inflate the value of the real inputs this money is spent on, i.e. gas and food.
this is a bad deal for the economy and politically as it will not do anything postive to increase demand. You can put all the pig on the lipstick you want, the Taliban is upset that 44 got a better deal, but from the idea of creating demand that will lead to hiring is simply not going to happen.
The CBO says it will happen. Most economists say it will happen. All the left-wing think tanks in Washington say it will happen. So, while I understand your argument, I don’t think your independent analysis trumps everyone else’s. The issue for most people isn’t whether this will stimulate the economy. It will. But it will do so inefficiently and insufficiently. That’s where the critique is strong. And it comes with long-term opportunity costs.
And two more years of the treatment that hasn’t worked for the last ten years will do… what, precisely?
Martin, the economists are WRONG. (again)
The vast majority of non-service jobs in this country are gone, and quite frankly they’re not coming back until the oil runs out, probably not in our lifetimes. Many service jobs are gone, too; it’s actually fair to say that the only jobs remaining here are the ones that are structurally unable to be outsourced. It’s not yet viable to send the lawn out to be mowed.
The only reason this didn’t happen in 1930 was that the costs of transportation and training to locate manufacturing and industrial production in cheap-labor, nonunion locations with buyable governments outstripped the labor savings. And, too, at that time there weren’t any other major consumption markets, so the moneyed interests couldn’t quite flip off their customer base, and thus there was some pretense of loyalty to the “American Way.”
None of that holds true any longer. China and India are the booming markets, shipping from Indonesia and China is far cheaper even than shipping to the US, the governments are making out like bandits so they’re more than happy to rape the people they mostly despise anyway, and as for training, there’s this Internet thing. It’s all gone overseas, and unless/until the American worker is willing to accept $2 a day as a good wage, overseas it will stay.
LONG before the moneyed suits will bring the jobs back, they’ll personally pack up and head for places where they don’t even have to pretend to be other than what they are. They owe no loyalty to any nation-state or ideology or culture, this generation probably doesn’t have any clue what the concept of loyalty IS… (I’ll be kind and not raise the concept of “shared sacrifice” – they’re losing their collective hair fast enough without having to scratch their heads…)
The one single ONLY thing the R’s are right about is that if you don’t keep paying your annual, no, semi, no, quarterly, now monthly tribute to the barons, they’ll take their courts and castles elsewhere.
But it’s going to happen anyway, sooner rather than later, and the wingers know it; they just want to make sure they are in that portion of the baronial court that gets to move with.
Has anybody been watching C-Span2 today? Bernie Sanders decided to do an old-fashioned filibuster today. He started at about 10:25 Am and has been going all day.
I watched him for two hours this afternoon. Senator Sanders is now my hero. Passion backed up with facts and charts. I was floored that Landrieu joined him and was truly enraged over the extension of tax cuts to million dollar a year earners. $50 billion it costs. She spoke of the morality of it all.
Is he still there? Have you been watching? I fear for his health.
He spoke for nearly nine hours. I had the TV tuned to it all day, but it’s just sort of background noise for me while I do other things. He was impressive.