The Spine in the Jello

You can piss on my leg and tell me that it’s raining as long as you get the hell out.

For those who want to see a significant drawdown occur next year, pressing for that outcome on claims of success could be less politically dangerous for Obama than arguing that counterinsurgency backed by extra troops has not worked as promised. “It’s always better to call it success as opposed to failure,” the first official said.

Yes, call it a great victory and leave. That is a better plan than the alternative.

The assertions of success are tempered by two National Intelligence Estimates – one on Afghanistan and one on Pakistan – that were delivered to the White House and Congress shortly before Thanksgiving.

One U.S. official who has read the documents said the Afghanistan estimate warns that it will be difficult for the United States and its allies to prevail unless Pakistan roots out militant groups that take sanctuary within its borders. The Pakistan estimate concludes that it is unlikely the government in Islamabad will do so. “So you’re left with the question: Is the conclusion that we’re going to lose?” the official said.

Why, yes, the conclusion is that we’re going to lose. If we try to stay there forever, we will lose. Anyone who thinks the best use of our troops is in Afghanistan has been smoking too much hashish. Any honest, sentient human being knows this. The challenge is to act on it in the face of the most dishonest, opportunistic opposition in memory and the most cowardly allies on record. If we’re too afraid to back the president up on Gitmo and terror trials, just wait for the stiff spine of Democrats when the president announces we’re drawing our troops down in Afghanistan. Who wants to put the spine in the jello?

13 Comments

Steven D on December 16, 2010 at 10:41 am

Reminds me of Colin Powell to Bush: “You break it, you own it.”

Well I think there’s a collorary to that: You own a bad investment long enough and it breaks you.

We’ve owned Afghanistan long enough (Iraq as well) and its time we cut our losses.

utried on December 16, 2010 at 11:42 am

The Iraq withdrawl is on schedule.
Obama has gotten so much pushback on starting the Afghanistan withdrawl in June 2011.
We’ll hear all kinds of dire predictions about leaving.
Getting out would be the best way to go IMHO.
- BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 11:58 am
  
  Obama is on my teevee sounding optimistic.
  - clearskies on December 16, 2010 at 12:25 pm
    
    If the Taliban were really smart they would just go away for a year or so–take a nice vacation in Pakistan, visit the wives. Then we could declare victory and leave, and the Taliban could come back all refreshed and do what they want. Everybody wins (except maybe the wives).
    - BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm
      
      Most Afghans hate the Taliban. Unless you’re a religious nut, you don’t have too many reasons to like them.
    - clearskies on December 16, 2010 at 12:49 pm
      
      Yes, the problem with following my (snarky) advice is that we would be leaving the Afghan people to the tender mercies of the Taliban. How to keep that from happening, and get out? That’s the big question.
    - torpid bunny on December 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm
      
      The question is, do we have any power to prevent that from happening? The last eight years say definitively that we, tragically, do not.
on December 16, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Afghanistan has broken:
1. Alexander the great in 475 BC
2. Various uncounted after that
3. The British
4. The Russians
We will fare no better. History has a strong comment about Afghanistan – get your ass out WHILE it is still close to 1 piece.

torpid bunny on December 16, 2010 at 12:11 pm

I’m honestly unable to parse Obama’s rhetoric about afghanistan as anything other than generic GWOT orthodoxy.

If we need to talk shit about the Taliban to get out, I’m totally fine with that. Tell us you kicked their ass and next time they’re gonna think twice about sneaking around southern asia harboring us ill-will. And the get the fuck out. Pack up your shit and hightail it out of there.

ask on December 16, 2010 at 12:13 pm

.. has been smoking too much hashish.

Such folks do not advocate much for military occupation…

BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 12:21 pm

mostly true, but what about the original Assassins?

Sect inside Shi’i Islam, more specifically the Nizari Isma’ilis, in the period from the 11th to the 13th century. Most significantly, the Assassins are famous for their fearless murders especially during the times of the Crusades.

There are many legends connected with the Assassins, and many are of dubious origin, more a result of medieval European story tellers’ fantasy than facts (among these story tellers is Marco Polo). The main theme is that the Assassins performed their deeds under strong intoxication from hashish, resulting in their own deaths, but with the promise of immediate entry to Paradise — a paradise that had been staged for them during their training at the Alamut, a paradise of sweet food and wine and beautiful and willing women.

These stories have never been confirmed by any investigations of contemporary Isma’ili sources, and there is good reason to believe that such a shortcoming is a clear indication that such stories are fabrications.

From the original sources, we learn that the Assassins changed the original Isma’ili doctrine, so that terrorism became a religious duty. Growing out from their centre in Kazvin, the Assassins built a number of strongholds all over Iran and Iraq.
The idea of a paradise constructed around Alamut was probably based upon the sayings of imam al-Kahir, where he talks about a Paradise that man has already entered. However, al-Kahir’s paradise was meant as a spiritual one.

They had a system of terrorists as well as secret agents positioned in enemy camps and cities. The Assassins often worked closely with certain leaders of Muslim states, as their services were attractive: no one else was better able to kill important persons in enemy states. They were for long periods allied with the Christian crusaders, not because the Christians sympathized with them, but because they had common enemies.
One of the most important Muslim allies of the Assassins was the Seljuq ruler of Aleppo, Ridwan. Through this cooperation, they were able to establish themselves in the Syrian mountains, where several fortresses were erected. Without being recognized in the same way as other temporary states, the Assassins had in reality, their own state here. But the Assassins’s influence over Aleppo came to be immense, and they effectively ruled the politics and economy of the city and its surroundings for a couple of decades.

Even Saladin came to treat the Assassins as allies, although he intended initially to eliminate them. The reason for this alliance, was that Saladin, following two assassination attempts, feared for his own life, and had more imminent enemies.
- Phil Perspective on December 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm
  
  They sound like medieval suicide bombers.

on December 16, 2010 at 7:30 pm

We’ve owned Afghanistan long enough (Iraq as well) and its time we cut our losses

Steven D on December 16, 2010 at 10:41 am

Reminds me of Colin Powell to Bush: “You break it, you own it.”

Well I think there’s a collorary to that: You own a bad investment long enough and it breaks you.

We’ve owned Afghanistan long enough (Iraq as well) and its time we cut our losses.
- utried on December 16, 2010 at 11:42 am
  
  The Iraq withdrawl is on schedule.
  Obama has gotten so much pushback on starting the Afghanistan withdrawl in June 2011.
  We’ll hear all kinds of dire predictions about leaving.
  Getting out would be the best way to go IMHO.
  - BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 11:58 am
    
    Obama is on my teevee sounding optimistic.
    - clearskies on December 16, 2010 at 12:25 pm
      
      If the Taliban were really smart they would just go away for a year or so–take a nice vacation in Pakistan, visit the wives. Then we could declare victory and leave, and the Taliban could come back all refreshed and do what they want. Everybody wins (except maybe the wives).
      - BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm
        
        Most Afghans hate the Taliban. Unless you’re a religious nut, you don’t have too many reasons to like them.
      - clearskies on December 16, 2010 at 12:49 pm
        
        Yes, the problem with following my (snarky) advice is that we would be leaving the Afghan people to the tender mercies of the Taliban. How to keep that from happening, and get out? That’s the big question.
      - torpid bunny on December 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm
        
        The question is, do we have any power to prevent that from happening? The last eight years say definitively that we, tragically, do not.
- on December 16, 2010 at 12:05 pm
  Afghanistan has broken:
  
  Alexander the great in 475 BC
  
  Various uncounted after that
  
  The British
  
  The Russians
  
  We will fare no better. History has a strong comment about Afghanistan – get your ass out WHILE it is still close to 1 piece.
torpid bunny on December 16, 2010 at 12:11 pm

I’m honestly unable to parse Obama’s rhetoric about afghanistan as anything other than generic GWOT orthodoxy.

If we need to talk shit about the Taliban to get out, I’m totally fine with that. Tell us you kicked their ass and next time they’re gonna think twice about sneaking around southern asia harboring us ill-will. And the get the fuck out. Pack up your shit and hightail it out of there.
ask on December 16, 2010 at 12:13 pm

.. has been smoking too much hashish.

Such folks do not advocate much for military occupation…
- BooMan on December 16, 2010 at 12:21 pm
  
  mostly true, but what about the original Assassins?
  
  Sect inside Shi’i Islam, more specifically the Nizari Isma’ilis, in the period from the 11th to the 13th century. Most significantly, the Assassins are famous for their fearless murders especially during the times of the Crusades.
  
  There are many legends connected with the Assassins, and many are of dubious origin, more a result of medieval European story tellers’ fantasy than facts (among these story tellers is Marco Polo). The main theme is that the Assassins performed their deeds under strong intoxication from hashish, resulting in their own deaths, but with the promise of immediate entry to Paradise — a paradise that had been staged for them during their training at the Alamut, a paradise of sweet food and wine and beautiful and willing women.
  
  These stories have never been confirmed by any investigations of contemporary Isma’ili sources, and there is good reason to believe that such a shortcoming is a clear indication that such stories are fabrications.
  
  From the original sources, we learn that the Assassins changed the original Isma’ili doctrine, so that terrorism became a religious duty. Growing out from their centre in Kazvin, the Assassins built a number of strongholds all over Iran and Iraq.
  The idea of a paradise constructed around Alamut was probably based upon the sayings of imam al-Kahir, where he talks about a Paradise that man has already entered. However, al-Kahir’s paradise was meant as a spiritual one.
  
  They had a system of terrorists as well as secret agents positioned in enemy camps and cities. The Assassins often worked closely with certain leaders of Muslim states, as their services were attractive: no one else was better able to kill important persons in enemy states. They were for long periods allied with the Christian crusaders, not because the Christians sympathized with them, but because they had common enemies.
  One of the most important Muslim allies of the Assassins was the Seljuq ruler of Aleppo, Ridwan. Through this cooperation, they were able to establish themselves in the Syrian mountains, where several fortresses were erected. Without being recognized in the same way as other temporary states, the Assassins had in reality, their own state here. But the Assassins’s influence over Aleppo came to be immense, and they effectively ruled the politics and economy of the city and its surroundings for a couple of decades.
  
  Even Saladin came to treat the Assassins as allies, although he intended initially to eliminate them. The reason for this alliance, was that Saladin, following two assassination attempts, feared for his own life, and had more imminent enemies.
  - Phil Perspective on December 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm
    
    They sound like medieval suicide bombers.
on December 16, 2010 at 7:30 pm

We’ve owned Afghanistan long enough (Iraq as well) and its time we cut our losses

About The Author

BooMan

13 Comments

Recent Posts

Recent Comments