I know that some people live in lily-white towns and villages, and they want things to stay that way, but America relies on immigration in so many ways:
Immigration invigorates the U.S. economy from top to bottom. Immigrants value education and economic innovation: In southeast Michigan, they are much more likely to have a college degree than non-immigrants. Immigrants help start around 25 percent of new high-tech American companies. As Austin puts it, “Slamming the door on immigrants pushes away the very talent and entrepreneurs the region’s metro areas need to remake their economies, and the ‘warm bodies’ needed to reverse decades of relative population decline and loss of political clout.” Bottom line: The Midwest can’t survive without immigrants.
The nation’s heartland can’t afford any more partisan gamesmanship on immigration policy. Millions of Midwestern jobs are at stake. Winning a better future, to paraphrase Obama’s speech, depends on policymakers taking the president’s call to action on illegal immigration seriously. So, too, might Midwestern politicians’ political futures, as attitudes about immigration inevitably change across the region.
Let’s face it. Our middle-class white youth are addicted to video games, lack ambition, are priced out of college (and will mostly squander their opportunities if they do go), and don’t have enough entrepreneurial spirit to lead this country forward. If we’re thinking that our low work-ethic kids, who are more interested in their piercings than making a buck, are going to compete with the Chinese, the Indians, and the Braziians, we’re kidding ourselves. We don’t even make these kids fight in our wars. We’re soft. The only toughness we have left is from our immigrant population, and our urban and rural poor.
Maybe that’s why so many people like to cling to their guns. They know a girl scout troop of Peruvians could conquer us as we lay bickering about our World of Warcraft games…if not for the underclass and our foreign-born citizens (and non-citizens).
While Mr. Williams might be right, I suggest he read this:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/01/30/arizonas-new-white-panther-party-money-anchor-baby-hate
/
Which means to me that the hate is just going to get worse before it gets better.
I think hate rises and falls based on political leadership. If you stoke hate, it will become acceptable, even normal. If you tamp it down, it will return to a low boil.
And the hate rises when the economy is in the shitter. Did you read though? As Bmaz says, those people are the leading pillars of the Phoenix community and yet they stoke the hate. It also means racism is far from over. And why the upper class has no problem with Beck and Limpballs.
yup.
I don’t believe white middle class kids have an inherent lower work-ethic than immigrants People respond to incentives, and once they understand the incentives, they respond to them for the most part pretty rationally. Institutions matter much more than culture. The GOP have been and are systemically destroying the institutions that created the middle class. White middle class youth were born and raised middle class, but the GOP has been pretty successful in making sure that going forward, they will either scrape their way to the elite, or drop back to working class. Two Americas and all that. Whether its because they can’t afford an education, can’t get a job, get behind in credit card debt or a mortgage they can’t afford, get sick and don’t have health care, or whatever- there are a lot of ways back to the working class, and precious few ladders to the elite or a comfortable middle class existence like their parents had. If I was 22, in middle america somewhere, I’d probably numb myself to this awful predicament with video games as well. Its the smart thing to do.
america is Charlie Sheen.
No, no, no Charlie does not PERSONIFY america; he IS america.
For those readers/posters who require further “enlightenment” WRT my assertion my only comment is “search for all the similarities, across every spectrum of the known universe and if you “find”…”.
Oh and yes olde Charlie is one very SICK & DISTURBED piece of work.
A side note: Finally someone else in this world finally realizes [and obviously understands] that “UHM, YEAH. HOPE IS NOT A PLAN. JUST SAYIN’.” [Badtux over at The Snarky Penguin].
And without a plan we then may rest assured that chaos will reign. Thank goodness for the Chaos Theory which means humankind is at least messin’ with some sorta plan, right ?
Our new dog is telecommunications and its main prophets are the internets, cell phones and tvs with humans simply viewed as “a mass of electrons to be amused and abused”.
Now there’s a “plan” that speaks to me in no uncertain terms as it helps illustrate that indeed EverythingIsConnected.
Hey, leave my eyebrow piercing alone!!!
I think most reasonable people have no problem with an immigration system that favors legal immigrants that have college degrees. But in the current broken system, border states are swamped by poorly educated illegal immigrants who are a burden on schools and social services, and who are easily exploited by agribusiness, the construction industry, etc..These industries bottom lines are based on what is tantamount to slave labor. I would be happy to pay a lot more for a head of lettuce if it were picked by legal workers who were paid a decent wage. If the job paid enough, maybe some of those soft white kids would do it. There must be some way to run an economy without needing slave labor.
I have a problem with favoring immigrants with advanced degrees. There is a huge overabundance of persons with advanced degrees. We do NOT need a huge number of persons with such degrees. We need jobs, not more labor to produce an ever cheaper labor pool.
In the last 20 years, about 2 million IT workers have been displaced and have in many cases had to train their replacement workers. We do not need more of that.
You can probably make the same type of generalization concerning our youth in the present day as you would concerning the youth of the ’60s, but neither would accurately reflect the truth.
Which of these two groups was represented most in the casualty count at the WTO protests in Seattle? Which one is represented most in what we now have of a radical Left? Like them or not, they’re activists.
In either conception of youth, we’ll rely heavily on the popular media narrative which, for me, needs a greater dose of salt the longer it meshes with politics.
I, for one, would welcome our Peruvia girl scout overlords. At least they’re probably not fascists.
Right.
Boy Scouts are fascists.
Girl Scouts are fascionistas.
Just sayin’…
AG
Ergo the ‘probably’ ..
I reject them utterly.
You have a child now. When your child is 18, that child will be faced with a world in which people say “Immigrants are more entrepreneurial than Americans”. Imagine the shock of your own child when he finds that his own father values persons from other countries over him.
I certainly do not agree with these comments. In point of fact, there are more advanced degrees in immigrants because they come here with advanced degrees, thanks to our moronic, idiotic H-1B policy.
So, buy that kid of your an xbox, a videogame system, get him addicted to computer entertainment. Don’t worry about reading, because immigrants will get all teh jobs, while American kids, who are too stupid to do work, sit on their butts. Yeah, there’s a healthy attitude.
I find this worship of immigrants to be sick in the head. I am the grandson of immigrants, but I did not raise my kids to be lazy. If you think that Americans should sit on their butts and let immigrants have all the good jobs, I will not let that go past without a protest.
What we have in this country is tax laws which make it cheaper and easier to hire immigrants. It has exactly nothing to do with their “abilities” and everything EVERYTHING to do with cheap labor.
the truth hurts. But you evidently didn’t find the truth.
I am obviously generalizing. But I’m not calling for anything new. We function at a high level because we are constantly refreshing ourselves with new waves of immigrants. We’ve always been this way, although we did go through a sustained period when we restricted non-white immigration. That was possible only because we still were enjoying significant immigration for Europe.
It’s true that video games and other electronics are especially pernicious in making our kids ignorant and lazy, but the sons and daughters of the comfortable are usually ignorant and lazy, and that’s why aristocracy doesn’t work.
I’m not anti-white. I’m anti-thinking white middle class American kids can or have the slighting proclivity to work on a level comparable to our competitors. And I’m not talking about wages. I’m talking about gumption.
OK, DAD. When your kid gets to be in college, and you see that he will be competing against a lot of other cheap labor which is not better, you may rethink things.
But, hey, getting a job is not real important, is it? We lazy, shiftless Americans can just sit around and live off welfare or something.
I just posted a piece called An Agreement to Booman’s ” A Doughboy Nation”.
It started out as a comment on this thread and jes’ grew like Topsy.
Check it out if you have a mind to.
And if you do not have any mind whatsoever (to or not to)…like dataguy whose comment above completely missed the point of Booman’s article …why, feel free to go read some Tea Party literature as you sink into the tarpits.
(Whadda buncha maroons!!!)
Later…
AG
Oh blessed, ironic internet!!! I worship thy synchronicity.
And there, right above this thread as I checked my post was an ad banner for a site called Immigration Direct. On first glance it looks like something official from the US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services…complete with an American flag and a seal featuring the head of Lady Liberty. When you go there it features a picture of a pretty, fresh faced (and surely not coincidentally, eminently fuckable) young latino lady and the following spiel.
Gotta love it.
Everybody’s getting into the game!!!
Later…
AG
So, you approve of this site, which is probably run by immigration attorneys, parasites who make their money by depriving Americans of jobs? Wow, what an amazing thing.
I think immigration attorneys are at best parasites, and are at worst, which is common, economic traitors.
Wow, xenophobic nationalist much?
Wow, mindless reactionary blather much?
I dunno who runs the site. I was commenting more on the synchronicity of it all.
I don’t have much use for any lawyers, to tell you the truth. However, I just last night drove an hour or so with two young immigrant jazz musicians…one Japanese, the other Russia, both really fine players. They were discussing the various hoops and hurdles through which they have been driven in their sincere desire to come to America…to the root of the music…and learn, and it was quite an interesting discussion.
Divorce is simpler.
A good lawyer might come in handy…
AG
Do you know what our immigration numbers for legal immigration are? It is 1.025 million per year. That is legal immigration.
Yes, it is difficult to immigrate. And what is the point of that? It should be difficult. We cannot employ the entire world. We bring in a million plus, and there are difficulties with that. We should make the process less complicated, I will grant you that. But, do we allow immigration?
Yes, we allow a large amount of immigration. And this is during a time in which there are more that 18% unemployed (that is the U-6 number, not the fakey U-2 number).
Hey, Arthur, really, fuck you, buddy. This has nothing to do with “teaparty tarpits” or whatever incoherent raving you are blathering about.
Since you know absolutely nothing about the topic, I suggest that you look at the discussions from Norm Matloff, of UC-Davis. Norm, who is married to a chinese woman and who knows chinese and the chinese community, is not anti-immigrant. Rather, he is anti-immmigrant-fable. He has documented, carefully, several important points:
There are hundreds of thousands of US IT workers who have been displaced by the H-1B.
Right now, especially, with 18%+ unemployment, we do not need the H-1B, the L-1 and the other cheap labor visas. We need jobs for our own college graduates, and we need a path to progress for our own kids.
Sadly, dataguy…”our own kids” have been almost fatally betrayed by our educational system and our culture. I have seen this up close and personal both as a parent and as an educator, and I have seen it as a working musician as well. Check out the following short YouTube clip by a very well-respected jazz musician regarding his take on American students.
Branford Marsalis’ take on students today
I regularly play and teach on the same level as does Branford, and I totally concur. The foreign-born players w/whom I come into contact on a daily basis are overall better educated and more highly motivated than are their American counterparts, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the Sufi idea of “As above, so below” will prove to be quite accurate up and down the scale of professions, from gardeners right on up through brain surgeons.
As far as my “incoherent raving” and “blathering” are concerned?
Incoherence is oftimes a function of the reader, not the writer. Seems like a number of people around here…and elsewhere as well, bet on it…have no trouble whatsoever understanding what I am saying.
Check yo’se’f out, brother.
Check yo’se’f out!
Later…
AG
I know nothing about the music scene. I do know a lot about the IT, science, statistics, and higher education scene. And I tell you this: the H-1B visa and the L-1 visa, which are vehicles for bringing in cheap labor from mostly SE Asia (Indians form about 45% of H-1Bs) is a huge and terrible error on our national part.
I suggest that if you are interested in learning about the effect of the H-1B (which is, interestingly, NOT an immigration vehicle at all – it is specifically a TEMPORARY work visa which may be converted into a green card in some cases), you look at some of the Matloff stuff.
If you dare challenging some of your own confusions about the issues.
“Issues” my ass.
The “issue” here is that American workers have been:
1-Badly educated
2-Badly acculturated
and
3-WAY overmedicated and malnourished
for at least 3 generations.
They are by and large dumb as a stick as a result. Fat, lazy, chronically ill and stupid. The idiots who run the bottom of the infrastructure today would have been chased right off the union floors and workplaces by the workers who really made this country from the late 1800s/early 1900s right on through WW II. Most of whom were 1st and 2nd generation immigrants whose presence was challenged here by native know-nothings just as you are doing now.
Go away with your bureaucratic visa names. The problem lies with America, not its immigration system. Its culture, its media, its educational system, its political parties and yes, its bureaucracy as well. Put together a workforce that could consistently tie its own shoes and there be no need for “immigrants.”
Jeez!!!
AG
P.S. What do you do for a living? You cite your knowledge of “IT, science, statistics, and higher education.”
Oh.
And you’re “dataguy”, eh? (Wid a small “d”, of course. How data-like!)
Got all the numbers figured out, right? But you consider what I think and write to be “incoherent blather?”
Got it all figured out? By the numbers?
Uh huh.
Hmmmm….
Oh.
Of course.
Now I understand.
I’ve got your “number.” Right here.
Your speciality is basically official bullshit.
IT, science, statistics, and higher education? All basically Emperor’s new clothes material here in The United States of Omertica.
Are you a weatherman and an economist too?
That would close out the circle quite nicely.
Did one ‘a them evil brownish immigrants steal your job right out from under you?
Betcha.
How dare they!!!
Go get them visa planners, baby.
That’ll solve our problems, right there.
Riiiiight…
Go read a poem.
It’d do you some good.
JEEESUS, what a dumbass you are, Art. It’s amazing how much you know about IT, science, etc. You say you are a musician, and I don’t doubt that.
Hey, I took my first IT course (on COBOL) in 1968, at IIT. Since then, I have learned about 30 languages, but I am actually not an IT person. And, no the EBP (evil brown people) have not stolen my job. I make a very good salary as a statistician and director of programmers. I am certain that I make more than you do, not that that is important. I have had this gig now for about 20 months – very good in the cold part of the country.
But I do know that the IT industry in this country has been destroyed by the H-1B visa. Since you don’t know shit about shinola, rather than posting more ignorance, have you read anything about the H-1B from Norm Matloff? You don’t know, of course since you are totally ignorant, that there was no H-1B before about 15 years ago. You don’t know about people having to train their replacements at their jobs. You don’t know about losing your job, not due to your ability, but simply because there are a lot of low-cost scabs out there.
Why are you so ignorant, anyway, Art?
Why am I so ignorant?
Just lucky, I guess.
AG
P.S. It’s “shit from shinola”, dataguy. “Shit about shinola” just isn’t funny. Y’see…Shinola was a popular shoe polish at one time, and “not knowing shit from shinola” meant that one was too dumb to be able to tell excrement from brown shoe polish.
And…oh, forget about it.
All real humor is an IQ test of sorts.
You just failed.
P.P.S. “I am certain that I make more than you do, not that that is important.”
If it’s not important…to you…then why mention it?
You’re right, of course. You probably make more money than I do. In this upside-down system, that’s the way it works. If you are really ignorant, you get to be Bernie Madoff or George Butch II. Only slightly less ignorant? You get to make a lot of money pushing meaningless numbers. Really into something? Feast or famine. You either scuffle like Booman and myself or you run Apple.
So it goes.
P.P.P.S That there H-1B virus….is it contagious? Sexually transmitted, maybe? Are we going to have another bird flu panic? Again?
Jeez I hope not!!!
What? What’s that you say?
H-1B visa?
Oh. Sorry.
Nevermind.
Your (blathering, ignorant) friend,
Emily Litella
For those who think that it’s just a dog-eat-dog fair competition out there, you are wrong. I invite you to look at this site:
http://www.jobofer.org/taxes/
This is a Russian site. There are also Bulgarian sites which do the same thing.
It shows American businesses how to abuse the American immigration system by bringing in teenagers from other countries to work in jobs in this country. The kicker is that you can save THOUSANDS of dollars over the course of the summer by doing this.
Why ABUSE? Because the J-1 visa, which is the visa being abused, is a visa to allow students to experience America. In this case, the visa is being used to replace American kids. In jobs like camp counselor, waiter, and dishwasher.
In Florida, the Publix supermarket chain brings in workers from Peru and Brazil to do supermarket checkout, supermarket deli and other “high-skill” occupations using this visa. In a county with 15% unemployment.
Now, tell me again about “high-skilled” occupations.
And the H-1b and L-1 visas have similar tax dodges associated with them.
Haha, just wait till your son grows up. 🙂