Sly Stone is living in a van in Los Angeles. As Rick James said, ‘Cocaine is a hell of a drug.’ But this is ridiculous. People love his music. Money should not be a problem for him.
This is Sly Stone we’re talking about.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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So often it’s not the cocaine. They can afford that. But it’s the managers, financial advisers and lawyers who steal all of their money over the years. They never even know.
You are right, Boo. But reading the article, it sounds like he likes living how he is. He’s always been an odd duck.
Why not?
He earned it.
Just another self-indulgent coke freak who sold his ass to The Man.
And you?
You bought the hype.
I knew a hundred “Sly Stones.”
Still do.
Some of them hit it and most of them didn’t.
So what?
Sly Stone….””Dance to the Music”, 1968.
So what!!!
1968?
John Coltrane’s total re-examination of the harmonic, rhythmic and melodic roots of jazz was in full swing, and had been in full swing for almost 10 years.
Miles Davis and Gil Evans were in the process of reinventing large ensemble jazz music.
James Brown? Fuggedaboudit!!! He made Sly Stone sound like a kindergarten student. Ray Charles, Otis Redding and the rest of the real R+B artists as well.
Eddie Palmieri…with the help of Barry Rogers…had already blown the top off of American latin music.
Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans and any number of other truly great musicians were at their peak of productivity.
And you mourn the fate of another in a long line of drug freaks who sold his ass down the river for a paltry few ounces of cocaine?
Get real.
He’s right where he belongs. He earned it.
Another jerkoff down the tubes.
So it goes.
Once again…wake the fuck up.
AG
P.S. Do you know how many grams of blow it takes to win a Grammy?
Not that many considering the potential financial rewards.
Not that many at all.
Bet on it.
Been here, seen that.
Bet on that as well.
AG
Hey! A little respect for the man and his music please.
I love all the other artists you namechecked (and we both could namecheck a bunch more), but their greatness is no reason to denigrate Sly’s.
How many other bandleaders created and led interracial combos where men sang harmony and women played horns? With utterly memorable pop hooks? And deep, funky grooves?
Black and black-influenced pop music sounded different after Sly Stone. Musically speaking, you can’t get from the Miles Davis of 1963 to the Miles Davis of 1973 without going through Sly Stone. (And Miles was one of the towering musical geniuses of the mid-20th century…despite his own drug problems.)
“And you mourn the fate of another in a long line of drug freaks who sold his ass down the river for a paltry few ounces of cocaine?” Well, since you put it that way, yes…yes I do. What other reaction would one have?
O.M.G. AG! It’s a rare occurrence when I agree 100% with every word you’ve written in a comment!
I’m savoring this moment by listening to a track from Miles Davis’ “Sketches of Spain” then I’m gonna segue my mood by letting Otis tell me about “Sittin’ on the dock of the bay…” and finish on an up-note with Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five.”
THAT, boys and girls, is REAL MUSIC!
Right, because no one at Minton’s Playhouse ever developed a drug problem.
No, right because no one at Minton’s ever sold their ass down the river. They rented themselves out once in a while, some of them, but their hearts were always on the bandstand, exploring the vast universe that is music.
Of course, they were spared many sellout temptations because their music was on such a high level. Sylvester Stone was just one of the hundreds and hundreds of semi-musicians who have been picked up and then dropped by the nascent corporate media when they got too troublesome or somehow lost their popularity to the whims of newiness. The corporates bought and sold these people like stocks or chattel, Booman, and they sold them to you the same way. Black, brown or beige. People get their panties all in a twist when I say things like this only because they were literally hooked by the hypnomedia on this or that band when they were in a very impressionable time of their lives. The music and musicians became part of that formative time and thus the memory of that time and all of the “pleasurable” elements that were part of iy became sacrosanct to them.
The real musicians were no “better” than the semi-players…sometimes even worse…in terms of their drug addictions and other human failings, but they could not be bought and thus neither could their music could not be sold as background pablum to horny, confused adolescents and young adults. The same kinds of hustlers who ran Sly Stone could have…and probably did…walk into Minton’s, Birdland, the Village Vanguard and any number of other clubs where the bop and post-bop era took shape and thrived. Maybe they walked right out again because the music was so fierce that it was almost unhustlable on a real, big money scale; probably many of them approached the musicians with deals that would have forced them to alter and lessen their music and were either summarily told to fuck off or hustled themselves for a while before they realized that these people were not about to water their music down, and most certainly some of the less greedy ones did “market” the musicians without any serious artistic compromises being required. But it was niche marketing, not Rolling Stones/Sly And The Family Stone billion dollar stuff.
Ii don’t think that anybody “should be living in a van” or otherwise homeless, but neither do I feel that Sly Stone is some sort of special case. He’s just another victim of corporate America, as are we all to greater or lesser degrees. I have a good friend who is in the same boat now, a truly great jazz musician. Several of us have been working for a couple of years to help him get straight but he keeps on bottoming out despite our best wishes and efforts. Recently I was talking to another of his friends who has basically given up on him and I asked why. His answer was very strong. Here it is.
“If he doesn’t have the self-respect to take care of himself and his business I can’t give it to him. And if I can’t give that to him, then any way that I try to help him will end up in failure. So I’m through.”
When I said above that I have known “a hundred ‘Sly Stones’,” I wasn’t just whistling Dixie. I’ve seriously tried to help about 6 of them over the course of my life, most to little or no avail. I probably would have tried and failed to help say Charlie Parker as well if I had known him, but some people are just bound and determined to dig their own graves. Dizzy? Duke? Pops? Sonny? ‘Trane? Getz? Elvin? Bill Evans and hundreds of ohers? They all had their brushes with drug problems…some of them lifelong “brushes”…but their art was more important to them than their joneses and they kept their act at least somewhat together. It is not fashionable among certain jazz circles (especially academic ones) to say this, but most of them used those drugs to help them play and create better. They walked a mortally dangerous tightrope for the sheer love of enhanced creation.
Do not doubt what I am saying here…been there, done that along with three or four generations of serious NYC musicians. I know what I am talking about and I’m one of the few who will come right out and say it. I’ve been in the backrooms and seen what is going down for over 40 years, and I am still there today. Bet on it.
Sly? I’m sorry for him but he was one of the grave diggers, looks like.
So it goes.
My ongoing efforts to get y’all to wake he fuck up to how things really work in this culture? This ever more rapidly devolving culture? It is largely informed by my experience in these back rooms with these people.
Listen, please.
Or not…as you must.
Later…
AG
Hey, I don’t know the whole history of Sly Stone, but I do have the impression that his disappearing act had at least something to do with his desire not to just sell-out and do whatever it took to sell records.
As for the rest of what you’re saying, I never meant to suggest that Sly Stone was a musician on a par with John Coltrane. And things got crazy with his crew way back in the late 1960’s. But the idea of the Family Stone, his commitment to racial colorblindness and multiracial music, are all important components of his legacy. I don’t know what you think of Funk as an art-form. I like it quite a lot. And as big of a fan as I am of James Brown, I like Sly’s influence on the genre more.
Brown’s songs all sound alike, and they’re too up-tempo to really appeal to me except in a party atmosphere. I don’t think it’s controversial that Miles Davis was in love with Sly Stone’s music and was heavily influenced by it. Maybe you think that was an unfortunate chapter in his career. I can’t say that it had a happy outcome for Herbie Hancock, who did sell his soul. But, in any case, when a musician of Miles Davis’s caliber thinks you’re a good and interesting artist, that ought to count for something.
But whatever. You don’t understand the appeal of the Rolling Stones, either. For all I know, you think Pink Floyd is corporate fluff.
Compared to what, exactly?
Verdi?
Bach?
Mozart?
Stravinsky?
Ellington?
Gil Evans?
Mingus?
Chico O’Farrill?
Yup.
AG
I’d be more interested in how you see jazz as a political statement. When it is, when it isn’t, when it tried to be but failed, etc.
Because multiracial bands were a political statement long into the 1970’s. When Springsteen and Clemens got together, they were self-consciously making a political statement. When Sly put together the Family Stone he was also making a political statement. And when jazz bands mixed races early on, they too were making a political statement. Because the country wasn’t about merit. Those cats thought it should be. And they acted on it even if it meant that they lost some gigs and left money on the table. That’s where Sly was a pioneer, going on television and sneaking in a “Don’t call me nigger, Whitey. Don’t call me Whitey, nigger” right in the middle of his happy medley (if you watched it, you might have noticed).
You’ve always talked about jazz and musical tastes as a reflection of the health of the culture. Well, for me, good music is political. Good music makes a commentary. Even Beethoven wrote a symphony for Bonaparte.
When Miles went electric and start bringing in Third World sounds and African themes, he was getting political. Sly was one of his inspirations for that. Militant Jazz, disillusioned with post-MLK post-Malcolm America. Screw “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow” they were taking Funk to the absurd.
As for Floyd, first there is the sound. Unmistakeable. Clean. Crisp. Not a sound out of place. Almost technological, like it was made in a Clean Room by men in hazmat suits. And then there is there is the brutality of their relentless critique. For example:
No one laid down the truth like Waters’ Pink Floyd. Not even pale imitators like Joe Stummer’s Clash.
It’s not about art for art’s sake. It’s not even about the music, not completely anyway.
I think Miles might see his own influence in this:
But, hey, it’s not a Mingus bass line, so, so what, right?
Further, I really do not give a flying fuck about any musician’s (or other artist’s) so-called “…commitment to racial colorblindness and multiracial music” unless that commitment was made in the interest of the art. Barack Obama is also “committed’ to such things but he simply isn’t very good at what he does. (Past getting elected, of course.) So what. So are any number of other lames. It’s the fashionable thing to do now, don’tcha know. Has been since the late ’60s.
Almost all of the corporate media are also apparently “committed to racial colorblindness,” or at least that is the impression that you are supposed to get from the multiracial mix that is dominant now in almost all genres of popular entertainment, advertising and media news.
Hmmmm…
Is this a real…and truly effective…racial colorblindness or is it just another way to control and sell to the populace?
“Hmmmm” twice. Look around at the ghettoes of America 40+ years after that supposed attack of colorblindness and answer this question for yourself.
As 138th St. Papo would say…”I don’ theen’ so!!!”
Most of the great bop and post-bop bands were entirely made up entirely of black musicians and often many other great jazz groups have been primarily composed of one race or another as well. Does that mean that i should put a historically mixed race groups like the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis band above many of Lee Konitz’s, Gerry Mulligan’s/Bob Brookmeyer’s or Count Basie’s groups?
Please. Great musicians hire other great musicians on one criterion and one alone.
Can they play the music.
Miles Davis’s great small groups were entirely black until he hired Bill Evans. Why did he hire Bill? Because he was the best of the best for the purposes of that music, that’s why. Later on when he changed his idiomatic approach he hired any number of white players. Why? Same reason. They were the best of the best for the purposes of that music.
Yet here you are saying …”the idea of the Family Stone, his commitment to racial colorblindness and multiracial music, are all important components of his legacy.” Well alrighty then! I suppose the multiracial composition of every sub-mediocre Broadway orchestra extant in NYC today should elevate the totally jive Broadway genre to the same plateau of honor.
Give me a break!
I got yer “legacy,” right here!!!
Bird, Diz, Mingus, Max Roach and Bud Powell at Massey Hall, Toronto, 1953.
All black and all at one time or another fairly well strung out.
So what!!!??? Each one was some kind of transcendent musical genius.
That’s what!!!
Sly Stone?
Just another music worker.
Like being a sex worker only generally at lower pay.
Bet on it.
Later…
AG
Judging from the previous replies, this isn’t actually a parody of high school ‘my musical taste is more authentic than yours’ one-upmanship, but goddamn it made me laugh.
Glad you are getting your jollies on stories of the human misery of others. We all get off on what we can, I guess. Have fun.
AG
Actually, Arthur, I’m pretty sure he’s laughing at you, not Stone.
This dude. Everyone that you listed was a got damn dope fiend. You don’t have to tell anyone you know dope fiends. Does anyone here believe you aren’t one?! An old ass scratchin’ and noddin’ dope fiend no less.
You talkin’ to me?
Clean and sober for almost 30 years. A little wine and some coffee are my remaining vices.
That and trying to talk sense to people like you, I guess.
So it goes.
AG
Nice compassion there, AG.
Just the facts. ma’am.
Just the facts.
Bet on it.
AG
AG loves to quote Shaekespeare…
But let’s quote Sly Stone…let’s go beyond “Dancin’ with the Music”…
Maybe Sly was as wise as Shake…
“Lookin’ at the Devil…”
“Lookin’ at his Gun…”
“Fingers start shakin’…”
“I began to run…”
“Bullets start chasin’…”
“I began to stop…”
“We begin to wrastle…”
“I was on the top…”
“I want to thank you for lettinme be “mice elf” (get it?) again…
BTW…who is Sly thanking?
Sly Stone knew his enemy, even though on the physical plane he lost to the enemy through addiction…
Of course, all of us have an addiction of some sort or another…AG’s continual “bet on it” indicates he is addicted to his intellect/ego…
Hmmm…go wonder…
The American Spring continues…
More words.
I am tired of words.
Any one of Gil’ Evans’s or Miles Davis’s notes on “Sketches Of Spain” is worth more than all the words ever spoken by leftiness, rightiness or centriess political clones.
Worth more than all of the lyrics caterwauled by half-assed rock singers as well.
Go listen to Sinatra sing real poetry on his classic Capitol recordings or Ray Charles on just about any recording that he ever made. Or Dylan or Billie Holiday, for that matter. Or Robert Johnson or Bob Marley, Hank Williams or Woody Guthrie as well. Just for starters
Meanings inside of meanings.
Pink Floyd?
Fuck Pink Floyd!!!
No there here. Just hype.
It ain’t about the “lyrics”, Booman. It’s about what the singers understand .
ithout understandijng, Shakespeare or Waly Whitman recitations are as empty and Burger Kingf commerciu=ials.
Bet on it .
With understanding? “I Got Rhythm” has as much meaning as does the whole collected works of James Joyce
Bet on that as well.
AG
Another “Bet On It”…
Very Mechanical, just as Gurdjieff described…
Mechanically railing against the “Machine”…
You should be tired of f…ing words…you should be tired of your own mind…mind is words…you have a vague notion about “waking up”, but, through attachment to your own mind, you do not have an inkling that you are actually asleep…
How do I know?
Judgement equals being asleep.
Non-forgiveness equals being asleep.
Condemnation equals being asleep…
Your cynicism reeks of all three.
Try emotional intelligence…loving your enemy is much more powerful than memorizing every single fact in the universe…
Bet on it…
The American Spring continues…
How do you like my new tag line? I owe it all to you…due to the nature of it’s founding and it’s fathers, (Masons…knew they were asleep), it will always be an American Spring.
Words have power, if used correctly and well.
They also have the power to communicate a basic lack of intelligence when used badly.
For example, take the construction “…due to the nature of it’s founding and it’s fathers, (Masons…knew they were asleep), it will always be an American Spring.” The two words “it’s” are contractions of the words “it is.”
Uncontracted, the phrase would read “due to the nature of it is founding and it is fathers, (Masons…knew they were asleep), it will always be an American Spring.” This makes no sense. The proper construction of that sentence would be “due to the nature of its founding and its fathers, (Masons…knew they were asleep), it will always be an American Spring.” It has been my lifelong observation that people who make that sort of mistake and yet try to come off as somehow “educated” are simply lacking enough intelligence to learn the basic rules of English usage. The exceptions to this rule…which I am guessing do not apply to you because of (among other things) your right winginess/original Americaniness love of “the founding fathers” and their own Masoniness…are those to whom English is a second language and many people who were simply not allowed a decent education in this country because they were born into the permanent poverty system. (Most of whom quite correctly have little or no use for our dear founding fathers because their ancestors were enslaved or otherwise mistreated by them.)
So here we have a grammatically challenged intelligence ranting about how the founding fathers were “Masons” and thus knew…and apparently accepted…that they were asleep. How this applies to the idea of an eternal American spring totally escapes me, but….nevermind, Mr. or Ms Liberty For All. I am sure that it is clear to you.
What is clear to me is that you are not very smart.
So I am going to ignore you.
Have a very nice day, though.
Later…
AG