There’s something missing from Glenn Greenwald’s otherwise excellent essay on the Wall Street protests and the response to them on the left. And it gets to something fundamental that has divided the left since President Obama inherited the TARP program from George Bush and Hank Paulson. It’s hard to describe this in precise fashion, but it comes down to a general versus partial indictment of modern capitalism and American institutions. Back in the first months of the Obama administration, much of the energy on the left was focused on nationalizing the banks. There was certainly a case for doing so, particularly in individual cases. But few people were looking at details. The banks needed to be nationalized as punishment for their sins, not because nationalizing them would necessarily be the best way to protect the taxpayer. I took a look at the arguments on both sides and took them very seriously. I came to the conclusion that wholesale nationalization would be more expensive (almost impossibly expensive) and would guarantee a huge permanent loss of money. It was also highly risky, in that it could have led to many unintended consequences at a time when the markets were in a panic and the economy was shedding hundreds of thousands of jobs every week. And it would also be slow and could prolong a period of frozen lending. To me, Geithner’s Plan seemed eminently more sensible and quite a lot less risky, at least in the short term. There was naturally a risk that putting things back together without some serious reforms would be a lost opportunity that could come back to bite us later.
Many people did not care about short-term risk at all, nor did they even contemplate the costs to the taxpayer. They wanted to use the opportunity of an epic collapse to usher in some creative destruction. I saw the emotional appeal of that, but I was more concerned about stopping the bleeding and doing an honest and prudent risk/reward analysis. Goal number one was to get the banks lending again. And that meant that the banks needed to be recapitalized.
The truth is that as badly as Wall Street behaved in the lead-up to the collapse, and as badly as they behave now and always behave, our livelihoods depend in large measure on Wall Street. When banks stop lending, we lose our jobs. When the stock market collapses, we lose our retirement savings. What we need is not to do away with Wall Street but to regulate it aggressively. And doing so is a political matter that is made almost impossible because of the power Wall Street wields to prevent strong regulation.
Wall Street and corporate money in general pervades our political process and heavily influences both political parties. And despite efforts at campaign finance reform, the problem has grown much worse over the last decade. Anyone looking at the Democrats to solve this problem is going to be disappointed. Even where the Democrats are attempting to do the right thing (such as increasing marginal income tax rates on the wealthy) they are easily thwarted. So, I see the desire and the need for some kind of movement that doesn’t rely directly on politics. Neither political party is capable or really even willing to create a fairer system or to truly protect us from the excesses of global capitalism.
In any case, I understand the motive behind the #OccupyWallStreet drive, and I can see why people are seeking non-political avenues to express their discontent. But I’m bothered by the lack of specificity in the movement. Greenwald says I should be able to understand it.
Does anyone really not know what the basic message is of this protest: that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?
Is that really the point? Is Wall Street oozing corruption and criminality in a way that it was not last year or the year before that? Is it less accountable than it was before the Dodd-Frank bill passed? Or, is it more that people are sick of seeing how much these bastards pay themselves as they ship our jobs overseas and try to whittle away the safety net?
I suppose the answers to those questions will depend on whom you ask. But I get the feeling that people like Greenwald consider Wall Street investment firms and banks as criminal organizations by definition, rather than by circumstance. Or, to be more precise, there are many on the left who don’t believe in capitalism to begin with. They didn’t believe in it before the September 2008 crash, and they especially don’t believe in it now. And without getting into a defense of capitalism, I have to say that I’m not comfortable with a movement that has no more coherent message than ‘capitalism sucks.’ I don’t even like the name. You’ll occupy Wall Street until _____ happens?
Now, Greenwald suggests that people like me just don’t like to see people expressing their opinions outside of the bipartisan conversation in Washington. There is some truth to that. I see the president trying to mobilize people to pass a Jobs Bill and then I see a lot of the energy on the left going into something that isn’t helping move the ball down the field. But, honestly, the protests on Wall Street can be helpful if enough powerful interests get nervous enough to throw us some scraps. I don’t mind that the protests are unrelated to the legislative calendar nearly as much as I just think a generic condemnation of an undifferentiated Wall Street is too incoherent to be meaningful.
I understand that this is the beginning of something. Maybe it will flower into something beautiful. I don’t want to criticize people who have gotten off their butts and mobilized to try to change things for the better. But, in the end, we have a political problem. We can all try to imagine what will happen if the current iteration of the Republican Party wins the Trifecta next year. If you take your eye off that ball for too long, the worst will come and we’ll long for the days when Wall Street was relatively well-behaved.
Obviously, there is no easy choice here. Warding off the worst to protect a rotten status quo isn’t too exciting. But things can get much, much worse.
I’m glad people are angry enough to try something different, but the movement needs to move beyond blocking traffic to advocating for some concrete changes. And, frankly, I don’t see any consensus on anything beyond that Wall Street sucks. That’s not good enough for me. Wall Street isn’t going anywhere no matter what else people might accomplish.
What’s missing from Greenwald’s essay is any sense of what he would like Wall Street to do.
What’s eating the left is what’s always been eating the left: itself.
ba-dump
Is that’s what really is missing? And I bet a lot of people would share the opinion that banks are criminal organizations by nature. Also, banks lending is not the problem per se. Even if it was, the banks still need to be cleaned up. Japan never cleaned theirs up and look where they are.
Yes.
Ba-dump.
I really don’t have any problem with the lack of specificity. In a way it’s a very similar strategy to the Tea Party. Since Wall Street isn’t going anywhere (capitalism-haters notwithstanding), the only way to reign it in is through aggressive regulation, and the only way that will ever even be seriously attempted, let alone passed, is if lawmakers fear the wrath of Wall Street less than they fear the wrath of pissed-off voters, just as the Tea Party has either legitimized or compelled so many Republican office holders’ lurches to the Krazee right.
If OWS becomes part of a process that helps whip up or focus the wrath of voters, it can be useful. I’m not optimistic that it will work. But nothing else has, either, so I can’t fault them for trying. Quite the opposite.
It’s interesting to look at the local coverage.The WSJ is fairly sympathetic, if overly snarky about pizza. Newsday has a positive editorial. The other two are more typical.
New York Daily News
International Business Times
Wall Street Journal
Newsday
That’s not really true about the strategy of the Tea Party. They were very much organized against health care reform. People knew exactly what they were for and against, as specious as the Tea Party’s arguments are. In counterpoint, I was reading OccupyWallStreet’s list of demands from Day 5 and it included everything from “end all wars” to “end poverty” to “end capital punishment.” The lack of a coordinated message that clearly articulates what they want is a problem and it’s resulted in the protests being marginalized based on how the protesters look and an act of police brutality. When a story of an incident from the protests becomes bigger than the protests, the message is lost (whatever that message is supposed to be).
Now, imagine if the left had organized around a coordinated message during the financial reform debate. They probably could have influenced that debate a great deal. But they didn’t, did they? Just like they didn’t organize to counter the Tea Party takeover of town halls during the health care debate. Maybe they would have gotten something like a public option if they had done something about it instead of just wringing their hands over no one was doing something about it.
From a story I read today from a sympathetic journalist, he saw maybe a few hundred people gathered and contrasted it with a nearby protest held by airline pilots. The difference was night and day. And if you can only get a few hundred people together in New York, a liberal mecca, something is seriously wrong with your protest.
For all the left’s griping about lack of substance from their leaders, it’s depressing how easily they are swayed by directionless political street theater that’s still trying to figure out just exactly what it’s trying to accomplish. There’s just too much of an air of magical, leftwing counter-culture daydreaming. Drop the Abbie Hoffman nonsense and take a cue from successful progressive movements in the first half of the 20th century–they knew what they wanted, they knew who was opposing them, and they fought until they got it.
Right now the face of this movement is the far left, and maybe the far left in this country just doesn’t realize it, but not even most of the people in the center-left coalition can stand them. And now they want the rest of that coalition to stand beside them, after they stood on the sidelines for the last three years and were as useful as conservadems? The only thing OccupyWallStreet has confirmed is how dysfunctional the leftwing is in this country. Only the far left could botch a protest of Wall Street, an institution equaled in public enmity only by Congress, and alienate the great swath of mainstream America that is sympathetic to reigning in and punishing Wall Street for its transgressions. “We’re for the working and middle class–who are uneducated, racists, and homophobes” isn’t exactly a winning message, but that’s precisely the baggage the far left carries with it and why they’ve been effectively marginalized for forty years.
They can complain about the news blackout because of corporate control, but the reality is that there’s just no story coming out of New York other than the protesters don’t know what they want and an incident of a cop macing them. That’s what happens when you don’t organize effectively. While there’s talk of a couple NYC unions joining in, I imagine most big, credible liberal organizations haven’t simple because they have no interest in getting on board with a protest that more resembles Shakedown Street than anything that will be successful. I really think the only hope is for groups like that to come in and give the protests some kind of direction, but they apparently don’t want it.
Final point: don’t team up with groups like Anonymous. In the offline world, groups like Anonymous are despised. This is what happens when such groups think getting back at a corporation (Sony) means stealing the private financial information of that corporation’s customers (in this case, 50 million users).
Tea Party = Freedom!
Occupy Wall Street = Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else.
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Tea Party = Smaller Government!
Occupy Wall Street = Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?
—
Tea Party = Lower taxes!
Occupy Wall Street = Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?
—
I’m with Booman. Great post, btw.
you are, of course, making up your own easy to remember slogans for the TP, while using someone else’s long-winded description of OWS, in a misguided efort to make the OWS people look silly. Mr. Greenwald, whose description you quote, is in Brazil and does not speak for OWS.
A more accurate, and indeed honest, compariosn would be:
There, fixed.
None so blind as them that will not see…
I believe that the proposal was to nationalize about fifteen banks, not a ‘wholesale’ nationalization of all of them. I don’t know. I’m aware that ‘because Krugman says’ isn’t an argument, and that sometimes he’s wrong (in my opinion) on the politics of a situation. But this is economics. That’s his field. I don’t think he supported nationalization to punish bank; I think he supported nationalization to fix the problem.
I mean, the answer to ‘why nationalize’ is in the rest of the post: ” …as badly as Wall Street always behaves … the power Wall Street wields to prevent strong regulation … pervades our political process … the problem has grown much worse over the last decade.”
That’s why nationalize. Because they’re too strong to not nationalize. They’ll win against everything except a killshot. I’m not saying that because I don’t believe in capitalism. I’m saying that because I do.
I don’t really know what to think about OccupyWallStreet. On the one hand, God bless ’em. At least they’re doing something, expressing disgust at disgusting behavior. (And saying, ‘why didn’t you express that disgust last year?’ doesn’t really make any sense. You don’t say it’s okay for someone to kick a kitten because last year they shot a dog.) And maybe it will flower.
But on the other hand, … it won’t. Or at least there’s only a tiny, tiny chance that it does, and that chance requires people dying. So there’s a lot of passion and intensity, and really well-intentioned effort for nothing.
On the other other hand, exactly the same is true of the Jobs Bill. It’s just that with the Jobs Bill, the people marching in circles are older and wear ties–and the marching is very well-behaved.
Yes, the Republicans are immeasurably worse. They want to destroy the country. But the best the Democrats could do, with majorities in both chambers and the White House with a tremendously popular new President, was slow ’em down a bit. In the unlikely case that the Dems take back the House next year, and gain a few seats in the Senate, and of course retain the White House, I don’t think things will get better in any meaningful way. I think they’ll get worse at a far slower rate, and I’ll donate and agitate and vote for that result.
But it’s not a solution to anything. Politics, at least currently, can’t solve the problem. And if I, middle-aged, middle-class white guy, feel that way, then I can only imagine how someone 20 years younger feels, having come of age in the political system of the past ten years.
I mean, guys like me can look at OccupyWallStreet and find the whole thing silly. The protestors might look like self-aggrandizing, airy-fairy, directionless gits. ‘What do they think they’re achieving?’ I might wonder. ‘What are the goals?’ Get a goal, hippie.
But frankly, they could ask the same of me and the way I donate to the Democratic Party, and will knock on doors and phone bank in 2012. “You’re supporting a party when you agree that ‘Anyone looking at the Democrats to solve this problem is going to be disappointed?'” Really? That’s your Big Plan?
I believe that the proposal was to nationalize about fifteen banks, not a ‘wholesale’ nationalization of all of them.
Distinction without a difference.
Because of concentration in the industry — again, regulatory issues — those 15 represented something north of 2/3rds of American banking.
‘I understand that this is the beginning of something. Maybe it will flower into something beautiful.’
So then there’s nothing to be unhappy about. You don’t need to worry yourself about those people around Wall Street. They seem to be taking care of themselves. For the time being let them feel their freedom. Why does everyone need to tie themselves down to working papers and deeply thought-out analysis every day of the wee? These people have been there for less than two weeks—anyway not very long. Wait and see.
You don’t need to worry yourself about those people around Wall Street. They seem to be taking care of themselves.
But they seem very much to want me to worry about them, and to tell me that they’re not being treated well.
So excuse me if I have a few questions.
says the guy who’s in Lowell.
Lowell.
What the blazes is wrong with coming from Lowell?
nothing in and of itself.
“our livelihoods depend in large measure on Wall Street.”
I think it’s starting to occur to people that to the extent that this is the case we are in deep shit collectively and in the long term. Because Wall Street isn’t interested in our long term welfare as a country. No matter how many commercials BP runs with nice white sand beaches, everybody should knows that ultimately BP or any other Globochem concern of it’s own intent can’t be troubled to care about environmental destruction. That’s just externality to them. There has to be a balance of power which represents the country as a whole in some identifiable sense against the amoral/sociopathic acquisitiveness of private capitol. What the last 10 years have shown is instead is the near total domination of our political process by private capitol. They all got paid, the winners and the losers. We got to make good all their bad bets and nobody went to jail for it. Because “our livelihoods depends in large measure on Wall Street.”
That said I agree that people need to have a clear and identifiable goal for their efforts, something like resignations of officials, regulation of campaign funding, indictments, fair taxation of financial speculation, etc.
See, that’s the thing: what is “Wall Street?”
I was under the impression that this was about large investment banks, and the financial meltdown, and misbehavior in the financial industry.
And now you’re talking about oil companies and their sins.
Is this a general anti-capitalism, anti-corporate protest? Or is it about Wall Street in particular?
Its about people on the left yelling, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” This is a good thing. Lots of people connect to that. Doing it on wall street, complete with young women getting pepper sprayed, is an attempt to point the finger of blame at the whole system. If the emotional impact is enough to sway some voters toward a more progressive stance, thats more than good enough for me.
Lots of people connect to that.
I don’t know where you’re from, but most people do not connect to “people on the left” marching down the street yelling about how angry they are.
In fact, when there is a protest that has a coherent message and is acting calmly – the Wisconsin sit-ins, the Iraq War protests – its opponents do their very best to portray it as “people on the left’ yelling about how angry they are.
Seems to work when people on the right do it. These people don’t look like DFH’s. And lots of people on the right think the same thing about wall street. Its good for the left to co-opt and try to channel some of that.
I didn’t reralize the pilots union was a bunch of DFHs.
Silly me.
All other questions aside, if you announce that you’re going to announce your one demand as soon as you decide what it is, you have only yourself to blame if not everyone takes you seriously.
But otherwise there seems to be a basic confusion about the difference between demands and goals. In Tahrir Square they were the same–the goal was to get rid of Mubarak, and the demand was that Mubarak must go. All very neat.
The goal of the anti-capitalist movement is not of the same nature, since it’s not something that can be accomplished in a single concrete act. There isn’t any scenario where capitalism agrees to step down and go live in exile in a neighboring country.
It’s not hard to articulate some plausible goals for #OccupyWallStreet–to push back against corporate power, to end Wall Street’s stranglehold on our economy, to equalize the distribution of wealth, etc. The problem is that the means they’ve chosen are not very well suited to any of these goals.
It’s interesting that Thomas Hoenig, CE of the Tenth Federal Reserve District (Kansas City), is due to retire in a few days (October 1) after 20 years of service. Hoenig has been one of the leading dissidents within the financial community, strongly criticizing the TBTF banks. Apparently he is retiring because there’s a 20-year limit. Will he be free to do more now?
Interesting because I believe that the reform has to come from within the financial sector itself. And there are many uneasy with the present system. Simon Johnson, for one well-known example).
http://baselinescenario.com/
Which is not to say that the anti-Wall Street demonstrations don’t serve a purpose, but I believe that whatever purpose they might serve, the moves to do anything will not come from the likes of Jamie Dimon and the rest of the sociopaths and psychopaths, but from much saner elements of the financial and business world. Governments, despite their being under the thumb of the financial sector, will also play a role. How exactly this is done, I do not know, and it is taking a long time to happen. This is really the biggest question of the day.
It is easy to compare this time to the 1930s, but bad as it is, I think one major difference is that awareness of the banks’ responsibility for this mess is much more mainstream than it was then, as is also an understanding of what needs to be done.
Excellent summary and analysis, as usual. At the very least, I would hope that Occupy Wall Street and other similar movements, would begin to provide a conceptual counterweight to the teatards. At a minimum they are identifying the right enemies and maybe they are having some effect on molding the opinions of a new generation. In the not too distant future the worst of the paranoid/racist/tea party/right is going to die off. It would be nice if the generation filling in from the bottom had a basic grasp of the current economic realities.
I’d be very interested to know what Al Giordano has to say about all this. Especially, since he has really been focusing on documenting the newly emerging/emerged mass movements in Egypt and Latin America.
I’ve been wondering what Al Giordano is thinking as well (I’d wager he’d advocate the protestors having discrete well-understood goals, coalition building, and disciplined non-violent action steps).
In politics, specific goals are sometimes less important than the generalized gut felling people come away with, which can influence their votes or opinions on an emotional level. Because people are animals, not computers. So, independent of the particular goals, this video, and others like it, could have a positive impact on the national conversation. For this reason I support the wall street protests wholeheartedly.
“What’s missing from Greenwald’s essay is any sense of what he would like Wall Street to do.”
Or even, what he would like to see done to it.
I’m not even talking about the specific, legislative-language level. He doesn’t describe any goals or vision at all. He, and the protesters, want to tell us that Wall Street has been bad. OK, as far as that goes.
Like a lot of Greenwald’s writing, he avoids laying out a course of action because he wants to keep his options for criticizing anything that does happen.
That’s an awful lot of excess words just to sum it all up in a paragraph, Booman.
Once again, it’s always, always, always about President Obama. The President vs. “the Left.” Ding, round #735.
Let those who want to organize against Wall Street, organize against Wall Street. Let those who want to organize for the President’s Jobs Act, organize for the Jobs Act. I’m so sick of this bullshit.
I agree with this. Everyone has a niche to fill.
Exactly. It’s time to stop bickering and start organizing. Moveon is organizing. The American Dream movement is organizing.
And let folks cross-advocate for those actions.
We need huge coalitions and we need them now–before January.
In order to transform the political narrative of this country from the corporate media and Tea Party narrative to one that unifies the 99% to accomplish what needs to be done.
Transform the political culture and let Obama be Obama.
Yes, and yes.
And it’s not just among progressives. Either something like #occupywallstreet channels the energy or the next right wing movement does. And that rightwing movement could be very nasty.
The representative channels of the Constitution are now blocked to the input of ordinary people. Just try to get a member of Congress to acknowlege what you actually said. They are hiding behind interns with spreadsheets and databases answering the phones, by web sites that trigger form letters instead of acknowledging the content of the inquiry, behind the lengthy security delays for delivering mail, and tight controls on town meetings. And every one of those walls was invented by Republican politicians going back 30 years (in the case of dumb form letters).
And now the security state is censoring content. Tea Party members can stand outside a Presidential town meeting with firearms and there are no arrests. Folks asking that Wall Street be curbed are treated as the enemy from the first day–despite their numbers.
Yes, the situation is different from the norm. And yes, the situation is urgent. And that sense of urgency is crossing party and ideological boundaries. If you talk to ordinary people. And they are comfortable getting beyond “red team/blue team”.
I think the importance of the Occupy Wall St. Protests is precisely that they give voice to an inchoate rage against the financial industry. Most well informed people don’t know what they want to be done differently on Wall St, they just know it’s really wrong the way it’s going now. Not only are people who are only moderately informed in the same boat, but both groups are only screwed up by policy specifics. The well informed group gets bogged down trying to analyze outcomes and parse disagreements and the moderately well informed get turned off by language they distrust as hiding mechanisms that will only screw them further. In both cases, people are pissed at Wall St, and in both cases getting into specifics is counter productive. This protest gives both groups something to identify with (and perhaps join!) that validates the wide spread frustration with an institution that is getting away with widespread fraud.
This matters. It matters a lot. The people of this country have been being robbed blind by the very wealthy for a lot longer than they realize, but more and more people are waking up to this fact. The Wall St. protest amplifies that simple message.
Another thing it does is give working class voters in flyover country a rare opportunity to feel positively about young liberal activists. This is a win-win-win, and it is going to get bigger and more important. I am really excited for the camps showing up in other cities and people going to New York to be a part of this. Get ready.
There are extremist, minor parties in this country – the Revolutionary Anti-Imperialist League (RAIL, Maoists), International ANSWER, others – who look at left-leaning protests movements that are primarily about expressing feelings about “they system” as prey. Making the message muddled is part of how they operate, because that way they can attract a broader audience, since everyone’s cause is welcomed.
Remember how the anti-WTO protests petered out?
They always end up the same way: they get hijacked into marches against “global capitalism,” they dwindle to irrelevant numbers, but these self-perpetuating fourth-parties get to add names to their mailing lists.
That’s what I’m afraid of seeing. If the march’s organizers don’t lead not just walking down the street but in putting together a message, someone else will end up doing it for them.
Yes, all of what you say about the possibilities of protests being hijacked is true. What is going on right now on the livestream from #occupywallstreet is a general assembly of people planning the future of the protest transparently.
Instead of “being afraid of seeing”, go see online at nycga.cc, occupytogether.org, and wagingnonviolence.org. And the livestream. Make your own judgments.
The march’s organizers have organized a venue, a process, and logistics. There are several hundred people each evening in the general assembly process. There are committees. All of their minutes are posted on nycga.cc. Part of that agenda is putting together a common message from as many people as possible.
And global capitalism, if you hadn’t noticed is in a serious crisis brought on by the same economic philosophy (contrary to what experience over the past 90 years has been) that created the Great Depression. The same political forces that beset FDR now are in play for President Obama. The President this time has the unenviable task of, having been forced by Congress and bad advice to play the role of Herbert Hoover, now has to pivot and play the role of FDR. He will not be able to do that in a political culture framed by the Tea Party and the corporate media.
The opening riff/rant by Lawrence O’Donnell on The Last Word tonight (link below) was brilliant. An interview with Michael Moore followed that started out good and then seemed to devolve into an attempt (possibly inspired by Glenn Greenwald’s column) to explain why there were no specific goals to the Wall St. protest. And yet, even accepting there are no specific goals, Lawrence O’Donnell’s intro makes clear that this “movement” could really benefit from a specific list of complaints, clearly articulated.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44710115#44710255
I saw that and I thought Michael Moore made a good case. Unfortunately he said the word “bullshit” during his interview. I hope they just overlook that, as probably no one but me noticed it. I’d hate to see him be banned from MSNBC interviews for something so silly.
.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
This is an assertion in the Principles of Solidarity that in a democracy no one’s speech or treatment is privileged above any others.
A speaker in the general assembly last night had these words of wisdom for folks like Michael Moore, Matt Taibbi, Susan Sarandon, Cornel West, and other notables who might show up at #occupywallstreet:
Sometimes, I think the same needs to be said of “A-list” bloggers, whatever they are. And double so for professional pundits.
But that’s just me. I’m just one data point in the scheme of things.
The Principles of Solidarity is the result of last week’s meetings. This week they are working on a call to action.
That activity is the part that is most important. It will determine the breadth of support for this action.
The “one demand” that was many demands was just some culture-jamming by AdBusters to the “why are they marching?” “what’s their demand?” nonsense that came out with the early coverage.
Matt Taibbi had the best take on it. People are angry, and they see that Wall Street is prospering at historic levels while they are hurting at historic levels. Of course, there is rage against Wall Street; in the current situation, Wall Street is the US’s Mubarak. It drives national security expenditures, it is behind moves to privatize Social Security, and…. People understand this but can’t articulate the problem because they don’t understand derivatives or international finance or actuarial studies of pensions. Of course, the demands right now are unformed. #occupywallstreet is about clarifying that and making some broad non-technical demands for change.