… and the ghouls at Students for Concealed Carry on Campus are already making political hay of today’s shootings at Virginia Tech:
Breaking: Shooting at Virginia Tech Proves Need for Self-Defense
Earlier today (12/8/2011 @ noon ET), a routine traffic stop at Virginia Tech turned deadly. A police officer conducting the stop as well as a second individual were shot and killed, apparently the same assailant. At the time of this post (3pm ET), the status of the assailant is unknown and Virginia Tech remains on lockdown.
Students for Concealed Carry offers our condolences the victims, and deepest hopes that the suspect(s) responsible be brought to justice.
SCC also sadly recognizes this incident proves yet again that nothing has changed at Virginia Tech. The college still entertain delusional beliefs that signs and stickers will prevent illegal weapons on campus, even as they protest paying fines for their failing to notify students of the initial murders preceding the worst shooting spree in history three years ago.
This latest event shows evil people still exist in the world and all the laws in the world will not stop them from committing violent crime. Guns are not the solution to every problem, but they are a solution to some problems — a solution completely ruled out by college campuses in Virginia and nationwide.
With licensed campus carry now a successful policy at over two hundred campuses in six states without incident, it is time for Virginia Tech and colleges nationwide to end the ban on campus self-defense.
Expecting a sign saying an area is a “gun free zone” is a dangerous and deadly fiction.
(Gleefully linked by Michelle Malkin as she sheds crocodile tears for today’s victims.)
I actually think there’s an element of truth to what these people are saying, however: just as gun laws in D.C. or New York City can’t be truly effective so long as neighboring states (cough VIRGINIA cough) are few-questions-asked flea markets for guns, campuses can’t be safe as “gun-free zones” if they exist in what are effectively “all-the-guns-you-want-even-if-you’re-crazy” zones.
Since these guys have politicized this tragedy, I’ll keep going and politicize it further: I don’t think we could ever possibly achieve sanity on guns in this country without first reframing the issue. The real problem is the toxic effect of the entire gun-loving subculture. As long as vast percentages of us believe gun ownership is good for practically everything that ails us as a nation — in other words, as long as we believe that guns are super-special magic wands of freedom and fun rather than tools used for hunting and for certain necessary self-defense situations — then we’re going to be so awash in guns, and so determined to protect gun access, that lots of people we don’t yet realize are dangerous are inevitably going to find it ridiculously easy to become armed. That’s why I don’t care how responsibly legal gun owners use legal guns — the cornucopia of guns in this country is, the menace, because, inevitably, it’s easy pickings for evil and insane people. And they insist we maintain that cornucopia just the way it is, or make it more abundant.
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Now I’m counting down to the first GOP presidential candidate who responds to what happened today by calling for greater freedom to own and carry guns, especially on campus. That candidate, if there is one, will get an instant bump in the GOP polls. My money’s on Perry.
I hate America’s gun culture, and I think you nailed it with your diagnosis of the real problem. Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if Virginia was the easiest state to get guns; I’m pretty sure it’s where most of Mexico’s cartels’ guns come from.
~signed, VT alum who went through Norris Hall on my way to McBryde every morning in Spring ’07…except that morning, when I had a doctor’s appointment.
The cartels use the Texas shops. They get the discount coupons in local papers.
Well I know Texas would be high, but I thought VA was high as well.
Anyway, I looked it up and was mistaken. I know I remember hearing about gangs’ guns coming from Virginia, though. I thought it was the Mexican ones.
What, the cop didn’t have a gun? BTW, the latest news is suggesting that the second victim might be the shooter.
A manhunt that locked down Virginia Tech University came to an end today when police determined that a gunman who killed a cop on the campus later died of gunshot wounds.
There was a ‘campus carry’ bill before our legislature this past session and one of the advocates got up, a supposed expert on the subject, and said that to his knowledge no carrier of a concealed weapons permit had ever murdered or harmed someone except in self defense. A few witness later an opponent of the bill testified and said a quick Google search as he sat there waiting produced more than several instances of such cases in which concealed weapons permit holder had committed murder. Anyway, the brazen lying by the gun advocate, to a legislative committee, was something to behold.
How many shootings on gun toting campuses? I assume Texas lets their students carry guns? How many shootings there? Is Virginia Tech supposed to be a test case or are there facts to back up the more guns equals less gun violence crap? Less taxes more revenue. More guns less shootings. War is peace. Death is life.
Military culture, gun culture, Hollywood, religious scripture our nation worships violence. We are all guilty its in our nature.
Some years ago, I was coursemaster and coordinator for a statistics sequence for undergrad business students at a major university. As such, I ran an Honor court, which examined allegations of cheating. Most students were unfortunately guilty of cheating (in my class, I used multiple versions with very different answer – if Version A answers got to Version B, this was cold evidence).
As such, we found the students guilty, and they got an F. This made many very upset.
So, when I consider armed students, I think of some of those. I would not want a very annoyed student being given the bad news who was a concealed carry moron.
My feelings on the gun culture in the U.S. are complicated. This may not be a popular view here, but I’ll try to explain as best I can.
In cases like these, I am fully against the idea of everyone packing heat under their coats. If everyone is walking around with guns on their person, of course you’re going to get more shootings. I’m not a big fan of the idea of concealed weapons.
But aside from that, I don’t know that I really have a big problem with widespread weapons ownership. I think there is a little bit of a disconnect on both sides. On the left, people see the dissolution of our civil liberties in the name of protection from terrorism and argue that it is better to have those freedoms and suffer the occasional loss of life, while working to solve the root issues that make people want to attack us in the first place. However, this attitude does not extend to gun ownership.
On the right, many people see the acquisition of weapons by the populace as a necessary bulwark against the tyranny of government. Yet while witnessing the actions of militarized police forces around the country in response to peaceful protesters part of the Occupy movement, their first reaction is surprisingly that the police are justified in their actions and that the protesters are in the wrong. Why? Shouldn’t they be on the side of the protesters? Please understand that I’m not arguing that an all out firefight is in any way a desirable outcome, but I just feel like there should be a little nagging voice in the back of their heads reminding them that this is what they’re supposed to be watching out for.
To be clear, I do support restrictions on what types of weapons people can buy, and I don’t think people with a troubled history should be able to own firearms. And I think people should be educated about the responsible use of guns via gun training classes, not television and video games. But I think it’s a complicated issue, and one that has become even more complicated recently due to the increasing privatization of the military and the militarization of our police forces.
I’m a bit pressed for time, but just wanted to in essence say that this is very similar to how I tend to view the issue of firearms.
I have no problem with ownership of firearms.
I do have problems with
Let’s have reasonable restriction.
I agree with all of that with the possible exception of #3.
For normal people, a waiting period is no problem. You merely indicate, online, that you will purchase ammo tomorrow, or something. In 2006, in St Louis, there was a case of a mass shooting at a workplace. In the middle of killing 6 people, the shooter ran out of ammo. He stopped in WalMart, bought a couple boxes of rounds, and killed 3 more people.
Waiting periods for ammo are more important than waiting periods for guns.
Right, but that is pretty much what I’m talking about in my original post about weighing the freedom to do something against the rare outlying cases.
I have friends whose hunting trips would have been half-ruined had they not been able to go restock their ammo over the weekend. Granted, they should have planned better, and should probably be more proficient at shooting deer.
You can surely make the argument that their inconvenience is not worth what happened in 2006 in St. Louis, but I don’t think either side of that argument is unreasonable.
So, they were unable to predict their hunting trip 24 hr in advance?
That’s like saying that you were unable to buy an airline ticket until 24 hr before the trip, and so that is why you HAD to pay $500 for the same ticket I got for $125.
That is remarkably weak. And the first time it happened, it would not happen again.
So, I have no sympathy for your stupid friends who cannot plan 24 hr in advance.
No, they were unable to predict that they would run out of ammo. They didn’t go up to the camp without, but they did run out after two days. They re-stocked, and ended up coming home with some tasty venison.
Thanks for what had been a good conversation up until this point. I don’t really care for random internet folks calling people they’ve never met in their lives stupid without knowing all the facts. Good night.
But what comes first: people wanting all of these guns because of our culture, or the surplus of guns makes people want to own one?
I eye the former, and I think that is what Steve M. is talking about. At least, when I think of “gun culture” it’s what I am talking about.
I don’t believe owning a firearm is a right, but that doesn’t mean I have a problem with people owning firearms. I personally hate guns, I don’t get a boner around them, I don’t even have fun shooting them for sport. However, the mentality that needs to be challenged is our fetish for violence — it’s not just guns. The reason we have such rampant gun violence is related to their availability, but it’s because we’re such a violent and unequal culture. The strongest correlation with violent crime exists with inequality, not gun-ownership. As such, the most equal societies are those in which guns are least dangerous, while the least equal are those where guns are most dangerous.
No amount of education about guns is going to do shit to change toxic masculinity, or the hyper-competitive, aggressive culture/economy.
TL;DR:
Toxic masculinity + “rugged indivudualism” (AKA Battle Royale culture/economy) + complete obsession with guns = clusterfuck
This was a cop, presumably with an UN-concealed weapon on his hip, ambushed by a bad guy with a concealed weapon (because had the weapon been visible, the cop wouldn’t have approached with his gun holstered), and the solution to this is MORE concealed weapons.
Oooookaaaaaay! [backs away slowly, making no sudden moves]
It’s amazing they’re not shattering their jaws with the jerking of the knees and all…
If Perry is you choice to come out in favor of greater gun freedom, which GOP candidate will praise the cop for giving his life in the line of duty?
Okay, so how about LIberty University and Regent University REQUIRING everyone on campus to carry a gun.
And the campus cops also get flame-throwers. Just because.
What could possibly go wrong? (other than the blatant display of right-wing hypocrisy, as usual)
In related news, several members of militias are “protecting” Occupy Phoenix from the Phoenix Police Department through open carry of AR-16s. It seems there are at least three or four militia members who see the First and Fourth amendments as important as the Seconnd Amendment. BTW, they are neo-nazis.
I now predict that we are going to see American politics get even more screwy over the next year or so. Tis what happens when the economy and the Constitution are under stress at the same time.
As the House votes 413-17 to conduct the conference committee on NDAA in secret. Be interesting to see who was in the minority on that vote.
And universities will use Virginia Tech’s second shooting to get even more riot gear. And adopt even more paramilitary tactics. Maybe even consider preventive detention. Most universities already have preventive expulsion powers.
We are reaping the whirlwind by considering all international issues as solvable by the military and all domestic issues as solvable by the police.