Since the Trayvon Martin case became a national issue, I’d been doing something I never used to do. I’ve been reading the comment threads at right-wing blogs and at Fox Nation to see how folks are reacting to the story. It’s been really depressing on many levels. I want to stipulate that some of the right-wing pushback has been warranted. NBC made a very irresponsible edit to Zimmerman’s 911 tape. It’s true that Trayvon was a taller more mature person than was being depicted in the media. There is some witness testimony that corroborates part of Zimmerman’s story. And, while the tape of Zimmerman arriving at the police station shows no obvious injury, it’s also possible that he had a mark on the back of his head. I don’t mind people pointing out flaws or bias or overstatements in the media coverage.
But the comments sections have been filled with a lot of very concerning stuff. There is a lot of overtly racist terminology being thrown around, and there’s very little pushback from other commenters or the moderators. It’s as if this kind of talk is tolerated and so expected that even people who don’t like it don’t feel the need to object.
Another problem is there is an obsession with a threat that was issued by the New Black Panther Party. It’s getting a little ridiculous. What are there, like three confirmed members of the New Black Panther Party in the whole country? And then this is tied into the idea that blacks are on the verge of rioting. On top of that, there is a total obsession with the fact that the Attorney General Eric Holder is black. And, of course, there’s the constant abuse of the president, very often cast in racial terms.
So, the racism that has been unleashed and tolerated at these sites is very worrisome. But there’s much more that I don’t like. There is an outright assumption that the only facts in this case that are true are those issued by the Zimmerman family, the Sanford Police Department, and the one or two witnesses whose accounts are helpful to Zimmerman. If we were inclined to give the right some credit for exposing some bias in the media against Zimmerman, they lose that merit badge by engaging in even more extreme bias in the other direction.
In following the thread (linked above) that began once it was announced that some charges would be pressed and continued through the announcement that those charges would include Second Degree murder, only two commenters stopped to wonder what the prosecutor might have uncovered to warrant such a charge. The rest assumed that the charges were trumped up, politically motivated, inspired by the fear of riots or pressure from the DOJ or the president. That the prosecutor is a Republican who was appointed by a Republican governor wasn’t considered relevant.
It’s a frightening level of group-think.
Let’s think for a minute. The prosecutor looked at the evidence for three weeks and determined that she should charge George Zimmerman with intentionally killing Trayvon Martin (or, at least, pulling the trigger with depraved indifference to whether it would cost Trayvon his life). It’s possible that she went with the strongest available charge to try to get Zimmerman to plea to a lesser charge, but it’s clear that she has some evidence. It’s also pretty clear that there must be some serious problems with the stories the Zimmermans have been telling. There might be some problems with the police reports. There might be some problems with the witness accounts that lent support to Zimmerman’s version of events.
I think we can reasonably conclude that the prosecutor, working in conjunction with the FBI, has tested the voices on the 911 tapes and determined that it was not Zimmerman crying for help. Why do I say that? First of all, we have some independent analysis that says that. Secondly, if it were really Zimmerman crying for help, it’s hard to imagine that she would charge him with murder. It’s hard to imagine that she would charge him at all.
I think we can also reasonably conclude that there is a problem with Zimmerman’s account of his injuries. He or his surrogates have claimed that he sustained a broken nose, head injuries, that he was beaten up very badly, and that he received medical care on the scene and then again later on after his release from custody. They claim that they have medical records to support this. Their story is partly supported by the police report of Officer Tim Smith.
If most or all of that were true, it’s doubtful that Zimmerman would be getting charged with murder.
And we have some direct evidence and some circumstantial evidence that supports the idea that he wasn’t that badly injured and he may not have received any medical attention at the scene.
We know now that a second ambulance was dispatched to the scene, but then recalled. We also know from the timeline that there wasn’t much time for Zimmerman to have received medical care prior to arriving at the police station.
Let’s assume that the paramedics who arrived on the scene sometime around 7:20 focused all their initial attention on trying to revive Trayvon Martin. They pronounced him dead at 7:30. It’s an approximately sixteen minute drive from the gated community to the police station. Zimmerman arrived at the police station at 7:51. That means that the paramedics had five minutes to look at Zimmerman between the time they pronounced Martin dead and the police left for the station with Zimmerman.
He arrived at the station without any bandages and without any signs of blood or obvious signs of injury or discomfort. So, while Officer Tim Smith’s police report says that Zimmerman was attended by the Sanford Fire Department medics, it’s hard to see how that is possible. And if he concocted that part of his police report, who is to say that he didn’t concoct the other parts that helped rationalize Zimmerman’s release from custody?
Granted, I’m making some assumptions here, but I have to explain why this man is being charged with murder. My best guess is that the police report didn’t check out. Because, if it did, I don’t think the prosecutor would believe she could overcome a self-defense argument.
But I don’t see any evidence of this kind of reevaluation of the facts by right-wing commenters. Their assumption remains that Trayvon Martin broke Zimmerman’s nose, crawled on top of him and began pummeling him and slamming his skull into the pavement, and then he reached for Zimmerman’s holstered gun. It should go without saying that the prosecutor not only does not believe that version of events, but has good solid evidentiary reasons for not believing it.
If you listen to the 911 tape that captures 45 seconds of screeching pleading prior to the fatal gunshot, and you know the person heard on that tape is not Zimmerman, then it becomes easier to see what happened. Regardless of who threw the first punch, at some point Zimmerman got control of Martin and had him pinned down. From the sound of the voice, it is quite clear that Martin was absolutely terrified, which probably means that he had a gun pointed at him during those 45 seconds. And then the shot rings out, with the finality of an execution. I’ve listened to the tape many times, and that is what I hear.
I believe that is what the prosecutor heard, too.
I can put together a defense for Zimmerman. It isn’t one that allows him to walk free or avoid accountability, but it makes him less than a cold-blooded killer. I’ve been punched in the head a handful of times in my life, and I’ve always reacted with unthinking fury. Something just snaps in me and all fear disappears and I fight like mad until its finished. I’m glad that I never had a firearm in those circumstances, because I wasn’t acting with even an iota of sense. That could be what happened in this case. The two of them may have come together. Trayvon may have decided that it’s always best to get off the first punch. And Zimmerman might have taken a blow and then just went nuts. It fits the description of several witnesses who say that right after the shooting Zimmerman had the look of a man who couldn’t believe what he had just done.
Based on the evidence I’ve seen and the actions of the prosecutor, this is the best case I can make for Zimmerman. He never should have carried a weapon. That’s the bottom line.
But, there will probably be a trial. And we’ll see if my speculation is more accurate than the stuff these right-wingers are writing.
You seriously think a trial will decide this? In terms of public opinion, it will not, any more than the OJ verdict did.
If Zimmerman gets off, many will continue to believe he executed Trayvon in cold blood – a belief made easier by the “reasonable doubt” standard. If he pleas, people will point to it, with some justification, as a tactic many innocent people are forced into (though you rarely hear this argument from folks on the right, they’ll discover it if it suits them.) And, if Zimmerman is found guilty, the right will find all sorts of reasons to discount it. Political pressure. Corruption. Political correctness. Any people of color on the jury will be given superhuman powers to intimidate and/or make their white colleagues feel guilty. The right will say anything rather than admit they placed their ideological fervor in the service of a guy whose story never added up – or that a black male teenager could be an innocent victim.
Should Zimmerman plea or be convicted, I’m more curious to see what, if anything, happens to sanction the egregious official misconduct such a result would confirm – the initial police report, the contamination of the alleged crime scene, the failure to arrest or charge Zimmerman for a month, the leaks from Sanford PD, the apparent intercession by a friend of Zimmerman’s father, etc. That is what made this case an international sensation. The story of a well-connected cop wannabe killing a black kid is a sick tragedy, but only a local one without the apparent attempted cover-up.
I cannot predict how a trial will go, but even the OJ case had its compelling moments that changed a lot of people’s minds. I don’t expect everyone to accept all the evidence in the case. I don’t know if the jury will hang or decide the case one way or the other.
I am making some basic predictions here about what will be exposed at trial, if there is a trial.
I expect that prosecution to introduce evidence that it was Trayvon Martin crying for help. I expect them to debunk Zimmerman’s claim of injury (at least to the extent of injury) as well as the amount and timing of any medical care he received.
I also predict that officer Tim Smith’s police report will come under direct attack.
And I expect the evidence in these areas to be quite strong.
We can at least go back after the fact and determine whether or not these predictions were correct. Sure, some people may come up with conspiracies or rationalizations, but either the case is based on these areas or it isn’t. Either he got medical care or he didn’t. Either the voice evidence is strong and compelling or it isn’t.
So, yes, I think we will see.
It’s the time line that makes the case against George Z. The time line shows that George followed Trayvon for at least 10 min. in his car and on foot before Trayvon’s phone went dead. Then only 1 min elapsed, the police arrived, and Trayvon was already dead. Trayvon was hunted, chased and killed for walking home from the 7/11 while black.
I am a Black woman who believes that the OJ verdict was correct, but that he was guilty.
I see absolutely no conflict in my opinion.
The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man. They had done it numerous times, but with Pookey and Junebug, who had rotten lawyers, and didn’t have a gold-plated defense lawyer who had cut his teeth taking on the LAPD.
There weren’t any witnesses or audio recordings for the OJ murders. The defence was able to discredit the DNA evidence. Which in it’s early days had a high false positive rate mostly due to contamination and the amplifying effects of PCR.
Lemme tell you something, Booman.
If this case continues to be blown up at the current rate by the media into a racial attack/racism-based trial and the judicial system somehow exonerates George Zimmerman…rightly or wrongly, it won’t matter much…there will be riots. Further conflicts that will lead to riots, at the very least.
And if he is convicted of something…greater or lesser charges, it won’t make much difference…then there be a white backlash that could quite conceivably sweep Obama out of office.
A nasty state of affairs indeed.
My prediction?
I think the trial will essentially be a show trial and that behind the scenes the all-powerful PermaGov will pull various political, monetary and media strings to gerrymander the difference, try to get a slap-on-the wrist verdict or sentence of some kind.
Otherwise?
It’s gonna get very nasty.
Zimmerman in the U.S penal system after being branded a racist killer by the money-hungry media?
Do you really think he’d survive?
I don’t and neither does he, I’ll betcha.
Watch.
AG
I think it’s lazy and presumptuous to predict black rioting.
First of all, the demand of the family and all but a few of their supporters, has been for an arrest followed by a trial. People on both sides of the question may have made some firm conclusions that go beyond the available evidence, but most people can respond to exculpatory evidence.
Let’s say that Zimmerman’s claims are supported to a large degree. Let’s say that evidence comes out to support his claims that his nose was broken and his head was slammed on the pavement. Let’s say that a medic testifies that he treated him and a doctor provides testimony and evidence that he saw him the next day. And let’s say the voice evidence is inconclusive or debunked, and that compelling witnesses say that they saw Zimmerman getting his ass beat down. If people think he was getting beaten really badly, they’ll still blame him for poor judgment, but they won’t deny that he was acting in self-defense.
If he’s been telling the truth, I don’t think people will riot. They’ll riot, perhaps, if the jury exonerates him despite the fact that he lied about all of that. But, then, when justice fails, people get angry.
I also think the family, their lawyers, and most of the civil rights leaders, including Sharpton, have been very responsible and have the good sense and credibility to tamp down the impulse to riot.
As for white people? I am seeing some serious hatred, but these folks are mostly talk. There whole deal is that they’re petrified. You might see some lone actors do something, but no white mobs.
Lazy and presumptuous? Come visit the black ghettoes of New Jersey. Up and down the Hudson in NY, where people have fled when they were gentrified out of their neighborhoods in NYC. Check out Poughkeepsie, Newburgh ands White Plains. Been to New Haven recently? Yale ain’t all that’s up in that joint. Bet on it. They are tinderboxes, Booman. So are many of the poorer neighborhoods in major cities. Britain had its riots, and we are due. Past due.
I am sure that some so-called “progressive” Brits would have used exactly the same words as you have used to describe a riot prediction before London and many of the rest of the black urban neighborhoods in Great Britain caught fire, but it’s a situation only awaiting a spark here to bloom into full scale violence.
I can almost guarantee that people in command positions at the federal level are fully aware of the potential implications of a pass for George Zimmerman, whether he deserves one or not. I certainly hope that they are, because if the media spark-fanning continues into a good, hot, drought-ridden summer here …and bet on it, the brush fires on Long Island and in NJ are just the start of what will come from this hot winter we just experienced…and the Zimmerman trial provides a good excuse, it’s gonna get nasty in America. I think that Zimmerman is going to get shafted, myself. He’ll be considered collateral damage if he’s innocent, and a big “Phew!!!” from the Feds if he’s really a racist fool.
It’s a lose/lose situation for Obama, though. Unless he performs his often masterpiece-level tightrope act between the two extremes, he’s liable to be politically damaged no matter what happens.
We shall see…won’t we.
And soon.
Watch.
Later…
AG
Further…read rikyrah ‘s comment below.
You think that she’s the only person in black America to feel that kind of anger?
Hell no!!!
It’s been building for 100+ years.
I watched last night out of my window as a group of young black teens…probably the same ones whom ran a similar game a few nights ago, only more of them..started acting up and acting out on a plaza in front of the middle school across the street from my place. Last time they were just yelling and mock-fighting until they decided to jump the fence into the middle school yard. I didn’t call the cops because I know that the middle school is almost break-in proof and I felt that they were just letting off macho, teen-level steam. I never want to see cops on large groups of teens, especially black ones. Too much can go wrong. As long as no one is being hurt, I stay out of it.
Last night…the mock fighting got more real, plus at least a couple of kids were posturing like they had weapons. Then a couple of them threw stones or debris at passing buses and cars. I knew the shit was going to come down then…the bus drivers called it in, bet on it…and it soon did. Some of them had jumped into the school yard, others had scattered but when the first cop got there at least one of them was still hanging around. He was stupid enough to play with his life when two cops got out of their car with guns drawn and told him to turn around and put his hands in the air. He argued and protested for about three minutes and I fully expected to see him get shot, but the cops were patient, controlled and eventually he did as he had been told to do. Meanwhile at least 10 other cop cars showed up, and the usual rigamarole was enacted. The fence jumpers must know another way out of the school complex…it adjoins a high school…because I saw no more arrests. But what I did see was a police helicopter hovering over the area for at least half an hour, LA-style. This plaza is the path I take when I come home from late night gigs to my house. I’d see it happening from blocks away…street-wise is what it’s all about on these hard pavements…and avoid it somehow, but I don’t like having to deal with it on any level, myself. An older white guy, walking alone around midnight with a musical instrument on his back? Easy pickings for angry kids unless he too is armed. Then? Some really bad shit happens. You can be damned sure that I don’t want to be the next George Zimmerman.
All of this in a heretofore fairly peaceful area. This is the 3rd “wilding” sort of thing that I have seen in the past year, and the 2nd in a matter of days. The cops are on edge…they know about the Trayvon Martin thing, bet on it…and the kids are on edge, too. They watch TV, Booman, and they swallow what is being broadcast there. Both sides. They are being reminded that they are potential victims, and they are being told that the white population is supporting racist killing.
It’s a combustible situation, man. Face up to the facts. If this shit is happening in my border neighborhood..I’ve lived here 8 years without seeing much of anything like this…what do you think is happening in the real scuffle areas?
Really.
Wise up.
It’s tinderbox city out here now.
For real.
AG
What you seem to have missed from the very beginning of this case is that the way the case was treated was unacceptable. The lead detective wanted to press charges and was overruled. The investigation wasn’t even up to Keystone Cops level. The police department leaked selective info to buttress their decision to do nothing. They actually smeared the kid.
So, what do you expect? That people won’t be angry? Of course they’re angry. But what they wanted was an arrest and a trial.
People will riot if they feel that justice isn’t being done. I think you’re presumptuous to assume that blacks will riot if he is exonerated without any regard for what comes out at trial.
If the trial makes a reasonable person think he’s clearly guilty and he still gets off? Then, yeah, riots might happen because what else can you do when the justice system totally fails you? But what if Zimmerman’s story is vindicated? What then?
Don’t just assume that people are immune to facts. I know I’m not. And most other people aren’t either.
“Most” people are run by the media, Booman. Sometimes the media runs ’em too far is all. Loses control of its memes, so to speak. The initial “Hang ‘Em High!!!” response of the media to the story when it finally got enough legs to make them some money has been tempered recently by other, more moderate responses, but the “Hang ‘Em High” folks and their inevitable counterparts the “He’s Innocent Because He’s (
Kinda Sorta) White” crowd are still making big news. I hope that this whole thing moderates out into some sort of real justice, but I have no positive expectations whatsoever from a justice system that has at its summit a Supreme Court that in my opinion betrayed this country in the 2000 and 2004 elections. If that’s the top of the heap I can only imagine what garbage festers below.In that article linked above (“Nation divided over Trayvon Martin case?”), a reporter named Ruben Navarette Jr. makes these observations.
OH yes!!!
That it does.
The color of your skin divided by the color of your political affiliations, to be more precise.
So far…
We shall see.
Yes we will.
Later…
AG
i hope you’re right. But it seems to me that Zimmerman’s defense could rest on an argument that although he was pointing his gun at Martin in accord with the Stand Your Ground law, his gun went off accidentally. Deciding his guilt or innocence could ultimately come down to very subjective determinations, like his credibility. And then the public would have to make a very subjective determination about whether the justice system resulted in justice. That’s a scenario that could make this case the vehicle for expressing the anger and fear of more than one segment of our society.
Stepping beyond the case itself, I’ve been trying to understand the roots of such a racist worldview. I recently have been reading the book The Culture of Make Believe, which goes into great detail examining hatred and racism, broadly speaking, with a historical and contemporary lens. It’s well worth a read.
I think the roots of racism lie in the fact that, in enslaving (blacks) or colonializing (American Indians, Irish, you name ’em), or disenfranchising (Jews, other minorities) another group of people, in order to avoid cognitive dissonance and moral discomfort one has to rationalize by dehumanizing that group of people. That is, you adopt the belief that they are somehow less human than you are, thus justifying your right to lord it over them. You develop a caricature image of those people and for some this caricature is a core element of their world view so that they feel they must remain invested in that false reality.
There are also real social frictions caused by the presence of unfamiliar strangers (new immigrants) or cultural clashes of different ethnic groups, where similar psychological/sociological mechanisms are seen. Often in such cases the power distribution of the clashing groups is not so unequal, but the rulers deliberately foment ethnic frictions in order to manipulate one against the other (divide and conquer).
Yes, those are very much the roots of it, and the book goes into them in great detail. Though it actually goes into many things we take for granted and are often ignored that are also causes and symptoms of hatred and racism, and for that alone it’s worth a read.
It’s true that Trayvon was a taller more mature person than was being depicted in the media.
I call bullshyt on this, BooMan.
Trayvon was 17 years old.
He was built like my nephew who was over 6 feet by 16, but had enough meat to cover his bones. Tall and lanky is the term I would use to describe him. So, strap a hoodie on him, and suddenly my nephew, whose life revolves around skateboards, Xboxes and girls is ` mature’?
I call bullshyt on that.
He was an unarmed 17 year old kid, walking back from the store – TO where his father lived, with nothing but candy and a drink, and probably wanted to talk to his girlfriend, when he sees some White dude, that he doesn’t know, and outweighs him by 100 pounds -FOLLOWING HIM.
I don’t give a shyt if it is 2012, if you’re BLACK in America, and some strange ass WHITE PERSON IS FOLLOWING YOU..
WHAT, in the history of THIS country, would lend you to believe that this will turn out good for said Black person?
Let’s break down why this case struck a nerve.
This case struck a nerve with Black people, because they looked at pictures of Travyon, and they saw their son, nephew, grandson, cousin, child from church, children in their kid’s classes. THAT is what we saw when we saw him.
And, after giving ` the talk’, that every Black person who loves a Black male, gives a Black male, along with their Driver’s Education classes..
THAT TALK about how to deal with the police.
What to do.
What never to do.
Because, the difference between doing what we say, is the difference between picking up you at the police station and viewing your body AT THE MORGUE…
And this is NOT some exaggeration, which I believe a whole lotta White folks in America believe it is. They don’t believe the reality of
Walking while Black
Driving while Black
Shopping while Black
We have been told, over and over again that it’s all in our ` imagination’.
There is no six degrees of separation for a Black person and a BAD story about the police. And, when I say a BAD story about the police, I don’t mean the police and the eternal criminal, revolving in and out of jail.
The problem is that Black folk can find a BAD story with the police, with an average, regular, everyday Black person that gets up, goes to work and comes home.
Too many Black folk wind up going to the morgue, or funerals of people that have no attachment to the reality that they know of the Black person that has wound up dead. The description of the encounter with police is in conflict with someone that they KNEW. It doesn’t match up. The police are describing a stranger, and whaddyaknow, the story is pretty much always the same:
CRAZY, VIOLENT BLACK MAN EXHIBITED CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR THAT JUSTIFIED DEADLY FORCE.
Journalist Donna Britt had a piece in the WaPo talking about such an incident that involved her late brother. Some 20 years later, the description of the police when it came to the brother that she had known all her life didn’t match.
Black folk are sadly used to these horrible stories – Amadu Diallo, Sean Bell , etc.
And cops never being charged.
Hell, the phrase ` shot in the back while resisting arrest’ was invented for Black folk.
But, the thought.
The thought.
That in 2012 America, a teen, who was doing nothing but walking home from the store.
Can be stalked.
Profiled.
Hunted.
And MURDERED.
By some random mofo with a gun.
AND NO CHARGES BE FILED AGAINST SAID PERSON.
No, I don’t think so.
It’s 2012.
Not 1962.
Let’s be clear.
Trayvon Martin’s ONLY crime was that he was WALKING WHILE BEING A BLACK MALE.
THAT’s it.
And, for that ` CRIME’ he was SENTENCED TO DEATH.
I wrote awhile ago that the reason some White folks were upset about this case is:
EVERYTHING Black people say happens to them on a regular basis with the police was evident in this case.
From the racial profiling that got Trayvon killed.
To the utter disregard of Trayvon, leaving him as a John Doe for 3 days.
To the police’s stonewalling of the parents and their attorney’s, trying to shovel their bullshyt coverup of this crime.
EVERYTHING that right-wingers in particular say Black folk are IMAGINING, was front and center in this case.
To be honest, I don’t give a shyt about their comments. IFFF this had been left up to the MSM, they would have just told Trayvon Martin’s parents, that, `the police know best’, and that they should just go somewhere and sit down, because their child was criminal who got what he deserved.
Fuck them. This is 2012, and Black folks don’t have to take it. And, know, we aren’t going to take it.
AND, they know it.
Which is why they are so mad.
I hear you.
Now, since you called bullshit on me, I feel compelled to respond on that point.
The media kept showing a nice photo of Trayvon that was a few years old. On one level, there’s nothing wrong with that. The family probably provided the photo, and it was a very flattering one. But it was also misleading because Trayvon was not that little 13 or 14 year old boy anymore. And Zimmerman is arguing that he was getting beaten to death, so people are imagining that and it isn’t adding up. How can that little boy possibly have beat up a grown man. It also turned out that the weight differential wasn’t 100 lbs, as was widely reported.
Now, I don’t believe Zimmerman’s story, but I think the media should do a fair job of presenting the facts about the size and weight of the two people so we can judge the plausibility of the story.
Likewise, they should accurately report how many times Zimmerman called 911, and in what time frame, and for what reasons.
The media wasn’t always fair to Zimmerman in this case, and I only acknowledged that.
There are two other things that you said that I want to address.
You said he was racially profiled. There is a good case to be made for that. But a lot of it is just intuitive. Personally, I believe one very important reason that Trayvon lost his life was unrelated to his skin color. I think that Zimmerman did not realize that he was talking on the phone because Trayvon was using an ear piece. Haven’t noticed someone acting weird and then took a special interest in them only to realize that they are actually on the phone?
That’s probably why Zimmerman thought he was acting weird, looking around, maybe on drugs. People look around when they’re on the phone. They walk differently. But, anyway, that’s only a guess. His skin color was also a factor. No doubt.
Lastly, you say that he was killed for no reason whatsoever. In one sense, that’s absolutely true. But in another sense, that’s what this trial will decide. It is at least possible that Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman so badly that he feared for his life. And that would be a legal defense for shooting him even if he deserved every bit of the beatdown he was receiving.
As for the rest of your comment, I agree completely.
This pairing of photos (from the Daily Mail hate rag in the UK!) has an even stronger underhand anti-Zimmerman message than what you imply:
This pairing of a smiling Zimmerman and a hoodie Trayvon however (from some Florida local channel) is clear anti-Trayvon spin:
The other sources I saw in the past hour were more fair in pairing smiling photos.
Did Trayvon have a right to “stand his ground” when accosted or does that law only apply to people with guns?
Extending on that: trying to glean info from the breathless coverage in US media, I’m struck by the lack of analysis and hypothesis on the reason for the struggle between Zimmerman and Trayvon before the killing shot. The pro-Trayvon side writes about cold-blooded murder on Zimmerman’s part, the pro-Zimmerman side (which includes all the racist commenters and also the majoruity of American whites, if polls are to be trusted) assumes that Trayvon attacked the armed guard just so.
Methinks a more likely scenario, one that actually includes a motive for the struggle on both sides, is Zimmerman confronting and menancing Trayvon with his gun visible, and Trayvon trying to incapacitate his armed and dangerous attacker with his bare hands.
In light of these considerations, the seriousness of Zimmerman’s injuries seems secondary. On the other hand, proving such a course of events before court without witnesses would be very difficult.
I found this (is this new info?):
Prosecutor: News conference to be held in Trayvon Martin case… | http://www.wftv.com
Everyone seems to agree that he was holding his head. Their interpretations vary:
And:
So, that’s three witnesses in addition to yours who saw him holding his head. Three of them describe it as non-injury related.
Has anyone addressed Cutcher’s statement that she and her roommate say Zimmerman straddling Martin with his hands on his back? How is that supposed to be consistent with the fact that Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest?
they found him lying face down. Who can say what happened? He could have rolled over to die. Maybe the people at the crime scene could reconstruct it, but I doubt they made a serious effort.
.
Invented by the lobby group for guns, militia and hired-congressmen. In the days of the Old-West one would say hired-guns? It’s always useful to swing voters to the right by elections: god, arms and abortion. The hypocrisy op pro-life …
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
.
A bit of her biography while working under her predecessor Harry Shorstein.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Trying to put this in proportion, all I see is this:
It is a very high-profile, significant case coming at a sensitive time, i.e. a presidential campaign with higher racial overtones than any, I suppose, since Abraham Lincoln ran for president.
That being said, however, the right wing discussion groups are acting exactly like they always do. And I suppose it does offer our glorious media the opportunity to push buttons.
The only real question is whether the Zimmerman/MArtin case is going to drive political moderates (i.e. the electorate outside of the notorious 27%) into the racist camp. Are the buttons being pushed now really any different for the buttons that have been pushed over the last four years? I don’t see it.
I don’t blame anyone for being horrified at the ugly lather being whipped up in those forums, and the lack of push back. But I don’t think it is anything new — only a particularly vivid and painful demonstration of what we already know.
Exactly.
Keep in mind for two weeks nobody was even aware of this case– at least one black journalist passed on the story; simply because he’s numb from the numerous similar cases the past few years– it took several people calling his attention to the case before he decided to cover the story.
Reich wing nuttiness/racism is to be expected.. not sure why anyone venturing into that territory is surprised or shocked.
I’ll go further. I think the relatively high profile of racist reaction to this case will become just another factor in the growing revulsion of normal Americans to the extreme right, and another nail in the GOP’s coffin. Let’s not confuse higher visibility with higher acceptance.
The higher visibility is caused by a combination of factors:
I do not believe the racial situation in this country is worse than it was 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. It is definitely better. It is not getting worse. It’s just that the ass-end of America has greater ability to get its message out. That’s not to say there’s anybody besides themselves that wants to hear it.
Good points.
While racism may not be as bad as 50 years ago, the fact that racism IS still with us in 2012.. (look what just happened in Tulsa) is a big problem.
I was reminded again yesterday listening to the press conference given by the Martins of To Kill A Mockingbird. Treyvon’s mother offered up grace and humility. Those who around her spoke in support of the justice system and pride in the peaceful pressure that the social media has brought to support them.
Rev Al, for all the history of antics did a masterful job of saying he’d been wrong to distrust Gov Scott and the Prosecutor’s intentions. He said all the right things to the crowd to manage anger and anticipation.
The Fox commenters have a mob mentality, which in of itself weighs heavily on this crowd having access to guns in the first place. They are promoting anger as if it can replace reason. That their handlers in the form of Fox don’t recognize who their community is and deal with it themselves leaves all the rest of us vulnerable.
And, while the tape of Zimmerman arriving at the police station shows no obvious injury, it’s also possible that he had a mark on the back of his head.
I think we can also reasonably conclude that there is a problem with Zimmerman’s account of his injuries. He or his surrogates have claimed that he sustained a broken nose, head injuries, that he was beaten up very badly, and that he received medical care on the scene and then again later on after his release from custody.
In the video, there was a shadow on the back of his head that may or may not have been a welt — but his camp told us he had a bleeding wound at the back of his head. Then why the hell wasn’t taken to the emergency room? Why didn’t he even get a bandage? (We can see from video that he didn’t.) The story was that he’d had his head pounded on the pavement. Apart from the concussion risk, there’s the simple matter of infection — pavement is, y’know, not exactly antiseptic. You don’t bandage a wound like that?
I agree.
Because of his appearance in that video, I disbelieve Ofc. Smith’s police report. I do not believe that he was bleeding from the head or nose or that he received medical attention in the back of Smith’s patrol car from the fire department medics. I also question whether Ofc. Smith overheard Zimmerman claim he was the screaming and whether Smith really observed wetness and grass on Zimmerman’s back. There is reason to suspect that the report was concocted in the middle of the night after the prosecutor intervened and overruled the investigating detective . That charges were brought, and the most serious charges, in spite of that police report, leads me to worry about the veracity of that police report even more.
Could the blood on his nose have been Trayvon’s? From when Zimmerman held his head as per the three eyewitnesses, with blood on his hand (literally)?
Good point. Standard medical practice is to treat head injuries very seriously. He should have been taken to the emergency room to get CAT scans and X-rays. Not only concussions, but possible hairline fractures, broken jaw or teeth. No paramedic on the scene has the ability to rule out possible internal bleeding or a cracked skull.
Even a run through the emergency room would have taken about an hour at least-so why was he immediately taken to the station instead?
Regarding Fox News, I am heading down to the 2 fast food places with TVs always on for customers and telling them that I am offended by their always showing Fox News. Public TV is what they should have on.
is this the next big story?
Ugh. ‘Suicide by cop’ sounds an awful lot like what rikyrah was talking about up above:
No, ejmw…”shot in the back while resisting arrest” is murder, most often. Murder in a state of panic sometimes, just flat-out murder other times.
“Suicide by cop” is when someone purposely…also sometimes in a state of panic, but quite often simply in a permanent state of stupidity and/or depression…confronts an armed and ready policeman or group of policemen w/the threat of serious violence.
There’s a difference. A big difference.
Cops are people, too. Some bad, some better.
So it goes.
AG
I think ejmw meant that the “suicide by cop” ‘theory’ of the police shooting of the apparently unarmed fleeing teenager in LA has as much reality as the “while resisting arrest” part in “shot in the back while resisting arrest” when it is flat-out murder.
.
See video
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
Looking at the video I can’t exactly blame the cops, but it is the LAPD…
.
Swarming the area with police cars seems a bit overdone, feelings of a gang or mob action.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
I was actually commenting on the racial component of it, not the details of what actually happens. Meaning, I wonder how many cases of ‘suicide by police’ involve white people.
I’m not making any accusations, since I really don’t know, but when I read that phrase, that was the first thing I thought of.
You ask:
Please.
Go on up to your local white working class/lower middle class/poverty class enclave…they exist, y’know…and take a gander at what’s going on there. I know, because I have a close relative who is a country detective…and a damned good, honorable one…in what I like to call “Appalachia North.” Rural Maine. The stories!!! One big, dumb, desperate, stoned, drunk white motherfucker after another, standing off cops with a big piece of chain or a knife or a car or a gun or…whatever. It ain’t “racial” up here, ‘cuz there aren’t that many races. But it’s just as desperate and just as nasty. Bet on it.
‘Hit’s Dumberica, ejmw. That’s what it is.
Deal wid it.
Dumb down the culture, dumb down the educational and economic systems, dumb down the media and whadda you get?
Deathly standoffs between desperate people and the law that’s supposed to take care of them, that’s what you get.
Deal wid it.
AG
The shooting of an unarmed guy running away is supposed to be suicide by cop?… This is bizarre. But there is another bizarre moment in the article (my emphasis):
They’re scared that their side is losing control. The USA is becoming browner and more secular with each passing year and that frightens them.
The automatic and unflinching support for zimmerman among the hard right is telling. Even when parts of his story have been discredited they cling to them religiously.
Your blogging of the case isn’t a mirror image, you’ve posted discrepancies on bot sides. I don’t see any hard right bloggers daring to cast any doubt on zimmerman’s heroism.