Reuters did their research on George Zimmerman and they paint a highly sympathetic portrait of his life and motivations for confronting Trayvon Martin. In seeking out people who have known him over the years, they get a lot of positive reports. People who went to his church or worked with him or were helped by him have positive things to say. And, by detailing prior incidents that led up to the night of the attack, they give us a lot of context to consider. Of course, they didn’t talk to the police officer he shoved or the former girlfriend who got a restraining order slapped on him. They didn’t talk to neighbors who thought he was a little gung-ho. It was interesting that he first got a gun because of a pit bull that kept getting loose in the neighborhood. As a victim of a pit bull attack that hospitalized both my dog and me, gave me PTSD, recurring nightmares, and a sleep disorder, I can certainly sympathize.
Yet, the fact remains that George Zimmerman took an innocent life. The fact remains that the police didn’t properly investigate the incident. The fact remains that the prosecutor intervened for some unknown reason to prevent an arrest. We will have to let a jury sort it out.
Somewhat offtopic, but on the topic of pit bulls: a lot of people on FB have tried to convince me that it’s just “dependent” on the particularly pit bull and to not tarnish the whole breed. Maybe I’m irrational about it — and everyone’s irrational about some things — but I do not want a pit bull to be near me, ever. I’ve never been attacked, I just don’t trust them.
It’s easier to find a sane pit bull than it is a sane federal-level Republican, seabe. Some of the pit bulls in my neighborhood seem downright cuddly compared to say Paul Ryan.
Or…gasp!!!…Darth Cheney.
Just sayin’…
AG
Heh, well I don’t want a federal-level Republican around me either. Well, aside from the fact that when I applied for the Naval/Air Force Academies and was offered a nomination from Cantor that I had my picture taken with him.
well, I am not rational about it for obvious reasons. But I’ve read a tremendous amount about pit bull attacks for obvious reasons.
And I can’t tell you how often I hear the same story. After a pit bull inexplicably attacks a family member, usually a child, the owners always say the exact same thing: it was a great pet and they had no indication that it would ever turn violent.
And that’s what I hear from lots of friends of mine who love pit bulls. They always say that they’re safe pets until an owner mistreats them or trains them to fight. In most cases, that’s true. Until it isn’t.
I haven’t noticed from any accounts that Martin had a dog with him…just sayin.
My sis had a pit bull, why I cannot fathom, but he held true to the stories, friendly but strange (ate a whole carton of toilet paper in one sitting) until the day he attacked and savagely killed her geese and sheep.
Yep. The toilet paper thing is just something dogs do. Breed doesn’t really matter.
But the sudden turn to predator with no warning? That’s just something you risk when you keep a pit bull as a pet.
Also, they are absolutely not safe around other dogs they don’t know. If you own a pit bull you take on a massive responsibility to never let them off your property unleashed.
Yup, that’s why I stay with Newfs.
I saw two separate Newfs in Lambertville, New Jersey last weekend. I was psyched.
BtW- it was Buster who was attacked by a loose pit bull back in 2002. Ten years ago and I still can’t sleep right.
Here are some Pit Bull myths and FAQ’s.
Ok now I’m pissed. Nobody should EVER attack a Newf.
FWIW, I had a pit bull when I was a kid. He was a big, dumb teddy bear. But then, that’s how I raised him, as a pet. The ones that are raised for fighting are a whole nother story. If an unknown pit bull showed up around my place, I’d probably shoot first and ask questions later.
Even ones that were raised as pets. I just don’t care. I don’t want them near me. They’re unpredictable, as Booman says above: it’s the same damn story every time. “I just don’t know what happened!”
I’m a very much an animal person, but I would never EVER trust a pit bull. Whatever happens to trigger that attack response its something deep down in their makeup and I dont think the Dog has any real control over it. It could simply be a flash of light that they dont like that triggers it, but when they go, they go. And their jaws are bred to lock on hard. I’ve heard of people breaking their teeth with crowbars trying to get their jaws open.
If you want a small silly looking dog that makes a great companion, go for a Pug. At least they were bred to be human companions.
Well see, that’s where the pit bull defenders will come in: “They were historically bred to be companions!”
Andrew Sullivan and his readers had a lot of back and forth over this last December (there’s like two to three other threads he had out there):
Defenders of the dogs
Against the dogs
there are no defenders of pit bulls. there are just people who have been lucky. as I said, every pit owner with dead child was a pit defender the day before they lost their child. every single one.
they can be good pets and find companions. until they aren’t.
You dont breed that low center of gravity and super powerful Jaws into a companion dog. Thats like trying to argue a great white shark was biuld for giving cuddles. And thats not even going into the highly agressive pack instinct. I could see them bieng bred as GUARD dogs, but that’s not the same as a companion dog. Whoever said that is talking a load of bull.
Frankly I would love to see that whole breed wiped out of existance. And that’s coming from a man who prefers animals to people a lot of the time. It’s just too dangerous for what it gives back.
I’d settle for leaving the breed alone and dealing with it on the owner level. Go ahead and own the dog, but if it harms anyone you should be held criminally responsible above and beyond what is normal in such cases.
The person who owned the dog that attacked me should have gone to prison for a long time and they should have compensated me for basically changing the entire trajectory of my life and causing me immeasurable mental anguish.
I’d even go so far as to say that pit owners should be forced to buy insurance.
I’d Agree. You want to own a Dog with a reputation like that, you better be prepared to pay the price.
Also, for anyone reading this who doesn’t think is a problem, just do a Google News Search for pit bull attack and you can see how widespread they are even in a search of current news.
I agree with you, I’m just talking about the trotted out defense. I know I’d be a lot happier if the dog breed went out of existence.
It’s like having a wild animal as a pet as far as I’m concerned. I want nothing to do with them.
Come to think of it, I think just recently my uncle’s small dog was killed by one (or a mix of one). They were walking their dog down the street, and this random dog comes out of nowhere and snatches up the small dog and won’t let go. Happened in Los Angeles, like maybe two months ago.
My neighbor had a pit bull mix and I wouldn’t go outside while that dog was outside. He never came off as aggressive but I always went on the assumption that he could go into attack mode at any moment. They terrify me.
You beat me to it.
As I tried to say in my two articles during the initial media-inspired leftiness hanging posse act (Rush To Judgement II-The Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Case and George Zimmerman a racist? Go look in the mirror first), the truth is somewhere in the middle.
It’s been exactly one month since I posted my first piece on the subject, and I am glad to see that you are now recovering some semblance of balance. I hope that the rest of the hanging posse does the same.
AG
If you go back and read what I wrote again, you’ll see that I was calling for a trial, not assuming a conviction. I never called for him to be convicted, only arrested. And, even there, if the prosecutor didn’t think charges were warranted after carefully investigating the facts of the case, I would accept that provided they gave their reasoning and it seemed sound.
I also have more faith in our jury system in this day and age than a lot of people apparently do. I think a jury can fairly decide this case.
I sure you already realize that, but that is the luxury of being white in America. As a 25 year old African American woman, I have some more faith in legal system than my mother, father, grandmother etc, but I do NOT have full face in the legal system when it comes to minority defendants or victims. I has been too engrained in me by the memories of my older family to be a full believer in the justice system in US. My head says believe in it, but my heart certainly doesnt’.
That should be 35, NOT 25
well, faith isn’t the same as full confidence. But the idea that no white person would convict and no black person would acquit is completely wrong.
I think Zimmerman is responsible for the death of an innocent person and that he should pay his debt to society for that. But if the facts bear out that he was being savagely beaten and his head was being slammed on concrete, I’d follow the judges instructions and the law. I’d probably acknowledge a legitimate use of self-defense no matter how stupidly he behaved to put himself in that situation. And even though I’m white, I would not have the slightest hesitation in convicting him to life in prison if his version of the facts don’t bear out.
I think most people are able to be fair-minded about these things. Not all, certainly. And one stubborn juror can thwart a legitimate conviction.
Exactly- and here’s what The Daily Beast had to say about this a few days ago:
Regarding the “he had a gun because of a pit bull problem in the neighborhood” reasoning/excuse doesn’t hold up well since:
1.) the 911 call/recording transcript where the first thing Zimmerman states is: “We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy”.. then later in the call: “These assholes always get away”. Doesn’t sound like he’s talking about a dog here.
2.) Related, if Zimmerman’s main concern is a pit bull, I’d like to see the transcripts of the numerous other 911 calls he made prior to his confrontation with Martin- how many of the calls are about dogs compared with “suspicious” guys walking down the sidewalk? I can more or less guarantee you the subject/tone of Zimmerman’s other 911 calls will come up in the trial.
3.) if there’s a dog problem in a city, since when is it OK to shoot it? why not talk to the owner of the dog or call the city to register concern/a complaint?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/21/george-zimmerman-is-destined-for-a-hung-jury.html
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
There are few options for dealing with a pit bull once he attacks. In my case, a man ran inside and grabbed a pool cue. He hit the dog in the skull as hard as he could at least eight times before he let go and ran away. If I had had a gun, I would have used it.
In any case, your questions are answered in the article.
My friends had a pit bull who seemed like a real sweetie, but one day when my friend reached for her collar, she sprang up and bit his hand and locked her jaws on it. He did everything he could to get her to release him. She let go, but he had permanent damage done to the thumb and first finger.
Personally, I avoid them. I just don’t trust them.
.
From all accounts on this thread, are you pointing to similarities between George Zimmerman and a pit bull?
“… family member, usually a father of the child, always say the exact same thing: it was a great guy and they had no indication that he would ever turn violent.”
and …
“He hit the guy on the skull as hard as he could at least eight times before he let go and ran away.”
Aggressive behavior of George Zimmerman led to his release as security guard.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Yeah, it’s unintentional. But I see your point.
I get it, but the local animal services guy who told Zimmerman to get a gun (if he indeed said that) is stupid, wayyyy stupid. this guy is not doing his job.
Let’s back up here a bit; dog life vs. human life.
I seriously doubt the Sanford police would have advised Zimmerman to get a gun and shoot the dog as a solution to a dog problem.
Why? this scenario: Zimmerman (or anyone in any given urban area) blasts away at the dog, misses, a bullet ricochets off the sidewalk or road, goes thru a neighbors window and kills them, or seriously injures them.
Please, the Wild West approach to dog control is just as bad as the “stand your ground” law which may have contributed to Martin’s death.
Let me tell you from experience. After I was attacked, I still had to walk my dog. I still had to do it in a community of row houses teeming with pit bulls. I carried a hammer with me for years every time I went for a walk. I did it because I didn’t want to carry a gun, not because a hammer is a wiser solution.
We’ve lived where people walked with a golf club in hand.
One of our children was severely bitten by a neighbor’s dog whom he was feeding when they were on vacation. Dog went berserk. Neighbors refused to confine the dog. Dog bit a family friend in the face. End of dog. In the meantime, our child was afraid to go out of the house. We lived in a large lot are without fences. Eventually, he overcame it. Fortunately without lasting trauma.
One more comment regarding the tenacity of a large dog once it gets ahold of someone. In another neighborhood, also large lots and no fences, a Bouvier de Flandres dog attached a child on his bicycle and it took two men to pry the dog loose. The child suffered permanent damage to his leg muscles. Again, the owner cared more about the dog than the child. I believe the dog attacked again and was put down. We had moved by them. However, no dog like that should get a second chance.
Just a question about “arrest”: Zimmerman was handcuffed and taken to the station. So wasn’t he arrested and released? Or does arrest have a more specific definition?
the point is that no charges were brought despite the fact that the detective investigating the case thought there should be. And because the prosecutor made that decision on the night of the incident, the case was not properly investigated in the ensuing days.
This is a primary concern for me: that the investigation was bungled from the very beginning, evidence not collected or preserved properly, etc.
I’m mostly done talking about Trayvon Martin on the intertubes, cause it’s a conversation that should happen in person. It’s too easy to hide behind computers when discussing such polarizing topics like this.
Anyone all I hope for is something for the family who’s child was the actual the victim in this tragedy. The child who George Zimmerman killed (regardeless that he’s a “good” guy, he killed an unarmed kid), the child who the Sanford police department left in the morgue for 3 days without trying to identify the kid. Let’s forget Zimmerman for once, the way the Sanford PD treated this dead kid like random trash needs to be addressed. I strongly suspect that if the dad had been less distress about his kid being missing the body of Trayvon Martin would have still been a John Doe in the morgue.
I suspect that Zimmerman will get off and be able to contintue living his life even as Trayvon Martin doesn’t. Karma will have to decide what happens to Zimmerman after the jury (and unlike you Booman, I’m not as confident in the jury system) acquits him. What I would like to see if someone does something to the Sanford PD for their part in this. If the Sanford PD (who has a history of racial tension in it’s actions towards Black victims) had treated this case with a little better protocal, then the speculation and rampant dishonesty perpetrated through media and twitter and such would not have had a chance to fester so much out of control. Sanford PD needs to be investigated too, IMHO.
I’m gonna say this and leave it alone:
I always find it interesting how the media wants to find ‘ reasons’ and ‘background’ for KILLERS THAT ARE NOT BLACK.
I have NEVER
in my life,
seen ANY attempt by the MSM
to find ‘ reasons’ and ‘ background’ about Black folks accused of murder.
wonder why that is?
I think we know why – the tribe can only become violent as a result of some trauma, while us “others” are thugs by nature. They don’t ask about us because they don’t want to know.
But hey rikyrah, u forget Zimmerman is not white he’s HIspanic, Peruvian noo actually from the article he’s of “Afro-Peruvian” ancestry as if they means jacks***
This is just a sample of current news about pit bull attacks. With one exception, I ignored articles about trials dealing with attacks that occurred some time ago. The rest are recent attacks. In Connecticut, Texas, Pennsylvania, California, Florida…
:
Pick any day, and you’ll have a ton of attacks to choose from. And they all fall into a few familiar categories.
About half are dogs who turn on owners or family. Maybe a third are people getting attacked while walking their dog or just minding their own business.
And the rest are either attacks on animals/pets or packs of pit bulls mauling people.
Often guns are used as there aren’t many alternatives.
link
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The cat died.
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Dear God in Heaven… Words fail me.
The part of one story, “attacked without so much as a growl,” is what gives me nightmares about those dogs.
It’s happened to me twice now while walking my dogs. One time by a pit bull, the other by a rottweiler. Neither dog gave ANY indication there was a problem (that I noticed) till they attacked.
Even worse with the rottweiler attack was after it was over, and the owner had the dog under control, it just sort of looked at my bloody dog and bloody arm like we were toys – calm as can be, as if he’d been asked to release a rope or a tennis ball.
yep. They never show any warning. At least, not when they’re alone. In packs you might get an indication that you’re in trouble first.
Right… trained, professional police officers put the dog down.
In all of these accounts, I don’t see any where the police advise people to arm themselves to “be prepared for the next time this might happen”… that is something one hears from the NRA.
The other (missed) point here is given the frequency and deadly nature of pit bull attacks on people and other animals- across our nation, it’s time to ban pit bulls as pets.
It’s that, or impose very heavy fines and jail time for idiots who think they can let their pit bull run loose.
I’m telling you, when you are dealing with a pit bull, particularly one that has already attacked someone, you don’t mess around. Shoot it with a tranquilizer and it may be the last thing you do. Pepper spray might slow them down for a short while, or not. Police officers are not animal handlers. And even animal handlers have been known to get attacked by pit bulls.
Again, BM, I get it.
But you don’t seem to be getting my point: i.e. pit bulls are a problem nation-wide, but few (if any) towns or cities seem to have laws which hold pit bull owners accountable if their dog attacks and kills or injures a person or animal.
why is that?