I used to live in Venice, California. In fact, I lived there when we invaded Panama for no discernible reason and killed a bunch of people for no obvious principle. To this day, I don’t think 99% of Americans know why Manuel Noreiga suddenly became unacceptable to our foreign policy elites after decades of doing their bidding. But I digress.
Living in Venice can give you the comfortable impression that everyone is to the left of our two established political parties and that no one with any integrity would get in bed with either of them. That’s what living in Venice seems to have done to Conor Friedersdorf, but he needs to wake up. I am tired of the purity trolls. If you can accurately identify the pathologies of the modern GOP and expound on them at length, then you’ve lost the right to be above it all. It really is that simple.
I can forgive people who do not recognize the unprecedented danger the modern GOP poses to our country and the world, but I cannot forgive people who are totally cognizant of that danger and nonetheless say “to hell with both parties.” Those people are worse than ostriches. They are enablers.
You want to know what can go to hell? Godwin’s Law.
Anyone who looked honestly at the National Socialist German Workers’ Party and then said “to hell with the Weimar Republic” was guilty of the same kind of purity trolling. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing not because the modern GOP is about to round up all the homosexuals or gypsies or mental incompetents and blast them with Zyklon B. It’s because the modern GOP is xenophobic, hyper-nationalistic, in constant search of scapegoats, and intent on embroiling us in ill-considered wars. They are a party that is obsessed with fecundity, that is obsessed with the racial purity of the country, that is completely in bed with the corporate industrialists that fund them. They have spent the last two years working on two projects with unremitting tenacity: forcing unwanted probes up women’s vaginas and disenfranchising blacks and Latinos.
At this point, I don’t care if it is supposed to be impermissible to talk about Nazis in American politics. Mitt Romney’s campaign is built around nothing if not the Big Lie. The president ended the work requirement for welfare, cut Medicare benefits to pay for Obamacare, and went on a global Apology Tour in 2009. Half the country is on the government dole, and minorities are sucking the lifeblood out of the nation’s economy. Homosexuals caused 9/11 and Katrina and undermined the battle-readiness of our troops. Climate change doesn’t exist and evolution is a myth. Man once co-existed with dinosaurs.
At some point, you have to stop pretending that the modern GOP isn’t using about 95% of Josef Goebbel’s playbook and take a stand. You don’t just stand above it all and say, “but what about the drones?” You don’t get to do that. This is an extremely dangerous ideology that we are dealing with that is daily doing everything it can to make Americans hate each other and everyone in the world who isn’t an American. It spreads ignorance and intolerance and anti-intellectualism and militarism and violence. It no longer has any redeeming qualities. If you can identify all these problems and tendencies, you forfeit the right to adopt an indifferent attitude about the elections. If you say “to hell with both sides” then to hell with you.
Shared with a few FB groups I run; hopefully the readers there share it. Is it in Orange?
So a morning rant to follow th late night rant. Oh, and BTW, I totally agree with you. The current GOP is perhaps the biggest internal danger to this country since the Civil War. Yet I know a lot of intelligent people who identify themselves as Republicans and will vote for Romney because they see the Dems as that same level of threat.
The problem is, of course, that the threat from the GOP is real and the threat from the Dems is not.
There are some bipartisan pathologies that are harming our country, and some that will harm the country in the near future. But they are survivable. Some of the GOP pathologies are not survivable.
Don’t forget the used-only-in-propaganda tricks used by their favorite propaganda channel:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/07/1128900/-Fox-News-Agit-Prop-Techniques-During-the-Conventio
ns-would-make-Stalin-Proud
Also don’t forget this: http://www.boomantribune.com/special/donate
(I don’t know if it’s kosher to post that, but in lieu of a cigarette …)
Yes.
The Nazis didn’t come to power on their own – they needed support from roughly a 3rd of the population.
There are potential Nazi supporters in every population. The number can range from the low teens, as a percentage, to over a third. A lot of study has gone into understand who these people are and how they think, but the causes of why some populations have higher percentages of them than others are still not understood. There appears to be both genetic and environmental components. The technical term for this population segment is Right Wing Authoritarian (RWA).
The US has a particularly high percentage of these people. I personally theorize that this is due to a combination of our puritan heritage – the puritans fit this mold very nicely – and the explosion in right wing media dating to the fall of the Fairness Doctrine 25 years ago.
So I agree with you that stopping this group has to be our main priority in an election year. I just wish that in non-election years we on the left could somehow coalesce and force our own party to follow its own principles. I’m not sure how to balance the need to support the Democrats to fight the right wing without giving unconditional support to the Democrats as they flirt with slashing the New Deal and expanding the military state.
Preach it, Boo. And Green Caboose’s last paragraph was essentially my comment. We have a whole lot of people on the left who decry the GOP’s black-and-white (in their case, literally as well as figuratively) approach to everything, but can’t reconcile the notions of supporting Democrats to keep the radical GOP out of power, encouraging Dems to do the right thing when the opportunity arises, and organizing on the ground to create better alternatives. In these folks’ minds, it seems, you either unconditionally support the Democratic Party or it’s the enemy, just as bad as the GOP. Neither simplistic approach will get us where we need to go.
Until the right wing media machine changes its way or is destroyed, they will be able to get right wing loons elected in off year, low turnout elections, pretty much every time.
Oh yeah. I know these people. For some, it’s real and for others it’s intellectual laziness.
For my wife, it’s real. She was wounded during the Days of Rage and the Portuguese Revolution. I figure she has a right. It’s the only thing we really fight about … and the fights are epic.
For others around me, they use her as an excuse. Which drives me crazy.
Assholes.
Black is White, and White is Black…
To us, you are the National Socialists… you turn reality on it’s head… you call a reduction in taxes “spending”…you call denying taxpayer funding of abortion and contraception a “war on women”… Goebbels would be proud of you!…you equate the banning of FINANCING of an act with the actual banning of the act!!!…In your world, “rich people” are the new Jews…Just like Hitler, SCAPEGOATS!…kill them!!! Or at least take all their money. You claim that, “the rich don’t pay their fair share”, but you know it’s a lie (the Top one percent earn 20 percent of income pay 40 percent of taxes…), but you also know that if you keep repeating a lie enough, especially if you control the media (see Mideast burning while Media focuses on Romney’s 47 percent tape), people will believe it!
Romney is the worst politician running for President I have ever seen…I think most of you Progressives are Atheists /Agnostics who don’t believe in Destiny or Fate…but my life experience tells me everything happens for a reason…
The only way Romney wins is if the souls of the Founding Fathers will it…
Yawn. To everyone else, you’re insane:
‘Cranks and crazies’ have taken over US Republicans, says Australian minister
That’s my point…Black is White, and White is Black…
Post at Red State… They’ll call you all sorts of names too…
At least I go into the Lion’s Den, and post where people hate me!
I like engaging with the right wing. It’s unhealthy to just debate amongst people who agree. That’s why I engage Democrats, Andrew Sullivan, and David Frum.
Good work, Seabe!
As a radical right-winger, I see absolutely no point in reading right-wingers…
I already know what I think!!!
I was considering throwing a victory party for Obama at my place if He wins (if Rimney wins, I’ll be quite content celebrating by myself!)
Will you come if I pay for the airline tickets and the hotel?
Well you see, even by reading FireDogLake, or Booman Tribune, or Balloon Juice, or Eschaton, or w/e…I’m not simply reading “what I think.” The vast majority of the left does not think alike on every issue, has disagreements about how we get to where we want to go, or what have you.
And that’s not even where there are true disagreements on “where we want to go”. If you want to see that, it’s places like Distant Ocean, or BlackAgendaReport, or WhoisIOZ, or Angry Arab, or Avedon Carol, etc. People who do not accept liberal, capitalist democracy. That’s where I have to go to even find true disagreement on policy…reading RedState or FreeRepublic or HotAir isn’t going to make me smarter or question my worldview.
Ok, not totally true. The only far-rightwinger I can read is Roderick Long. Of course, I think he has a lot of his history wrong, but he probably has more in common with the leftists I listed above than they have in common with the Democratic Party.
I appreciate your honesty.. .you are who you are!…fucking good for you!!!!
Dude…you’re looking for Home…
Home is midway between Right and Left!!!
That’s a pretty extreme strawman you’ve got there. If we’re going to paint in broad strokes, though, there’s only one political party currently in operation that is anti-science (from requiring doctors to give fictitious medical advice to women seeking abortions, to injecting creationist nonsense into schools, to denying climate change), and hence denies reality almost as a point of pride. There’s only one party that wants to deregulate everything under the sun in the name of “freedom,” except a woman’s control over her own body. There’s only one party whose supporters ignore huge deficits run up during Republican administrations and then run around screaming that deficits are the greatest threat facing our nation during Democratic administrations. There’s only one side that believes that tax cuts somehow magically increase tax revenues. There’s only one side that believes in stimulus under a Republican administration and disavows it when proposed by a Democratic administration.
You can think that Democrats are “National Socialists,” or whatever, but your side is objectively a bunch of know-nothing nuts. There is no philosophical cohesion to any of your policy positions, other than that Republicans are generally opposed to whatever Democrats favor (and especially when the Democrat is black).
Bush was a big spender…
We get that…
His deficits were NOT caused by tax cut…Federal Income Tax Revenue INCREASED between 2003 (second phase of tax cuts), and 2007 (BernankeBarney Frank induced housing bubble burst)…
Supply-Side tax cuts work…worked for Coolidge…Kennedy…Reagan…W, (“worked” means increased revenue to the treasury, not deficit reduction… It’s the SPENDING stupid!!!)
Uh… you got told that your argument makes no sense, Too broad brush etc , he painted with that brush and you reply :that was the other republicans, not the idealised mythical republicans that exist in my fantasies.
Maybe i am too wasted right now and i completely miss the point you want to make ,or you are some sort of irony troll, you just dont want to make any sense and just pretend to be an idiot.
As I understand it, JFK’s tax cuts were demand-side; that is, they were mostly to low-to-middle income taxpayers. Demand side works; supply side doesn’t.
Maureen’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law;
“As an online discussion about Nazis grows longer, the probability that someone will invoke Godwin’s law approaches 1”.
http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-community@houseoffusion.com/msg312463.html
Groleau’s Law: In every Usenet dispute, someone will invoke Godwin’s Law in a futile attempt to end the argument.
https:/groups.google.com/forum#!msg/comp.sys.mac.system/TlSxvDLmxXA/Y17TWVhwvzUJ
Rouselot’s 3rd Corrolary to Groleau’s Law: Groleau is an optimist.
I’m pretty fed up with Godwin too. I’ve referred to Umberto Eco’s essay on eternal fascism numerous times over the years, and I’ve seen the Republicans steadily converging on it.
But but but… public option! Geitner! Summers! None of that would have happened if my hero Dennis Kucinich/Ralph Nader/Hilary Clinton were president! Waaaaaaaah!!
I’ve been making essentially the same argument for over ten years now on the “internets” about the brownshirts – Godwin’s Law be damned.
Along with that, I’ve recognized what I’ve long characterized as the good cop/bad cop, faux duopoly, janus-like conditions it has evolved into in DC in many ways, and which is by far more easily seen on the foreign policy as opposed to the domestic front.
If you wanna go so far as to characterize it as fascist v fascist-lite, I’d be the last to strenuously object, assuming the label is confined in its use solely to the marriage between corps and gov as Mussolini defined it.
Having provided the backdrop, the current use of the “big lie” technique on our political stage should come as no surprise, especially given that it has already long been used. The ground for its rise was cultivated decades ago imo, starting with the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine, and fertilized by the media acquistions of the rightwingers (where lefties dropped the ball) with the sole intent of seeking their now successfully played coup de grace — the complete destruction and disuse of the concept of “agreed upon facts”, giving us the “both sides do it/he said/she said” state of journalism we have today that facilitates/enables the brownshirts.
WHat we currently have is a choice between a barrel full of rotten apples, and one with a lot of edible fruit in it still. The key as you rightly noted in so many words, is electing more/better dems, because despite what rotten apples might be in their barrel, it’s the only one that can be significantly improved upon or that will feed us in some very important ways, until the rightwingnut fever is broken. In the case of the latter, only their repudiation and shaming is the cure, not “civilized” debate.
The role of the media in all of this is the most overlooked — or should I say denied as enshrined in that “liberal” media myth — aspect of it, which is why the recent comment and efforts of the ombudsmen (is that correct) at the NYT to address it is so important, as any efforts towards turning our lapdogs into the watchdogs they should be, are.
I, like you perhaps, pay no heed/attention to the “well, the lesser of two evil is still evil” rationale for non-participation, because as you rightly noted, the prospect of redemption is all but outta reach for the one but not the other.
Godwin’s Law is nearly universally misunderstood. (I have a friend in common with Mike Godwin, and I’m a grizzled veteran of Usenet, so I have some familiarity with his thinking when he coined his “law.”)
Here’s what he said: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.” His reasoning: “Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.” In other words, he was commenting about the tendency of online discussions to become hyperbolic over time. That’s fair comment, I think.
The stuff about automatically losing an argument by mentioning Hitler or Nazis came after the fact and not from Godwin. I think that is what Booman detests. I detest it, too. I get into these arguments all the time when I compare some chilling tactic of the right to a similar one used by the Nazis. “If the Republicans are like the Nazis, where are the dead bodies,” I’m asked. “The point here is to prevent the dead bodies, not wait until we have some so we can settle this discussion,” is my usual response. Sigh.
I believe you’re staring into the depth of the human gene pool. We’ve got folks who dedicate their lives to easing the suffering of others, and folks who show up at bars at night looking for someone to punch.
Expecting all of us to come to our senses is like rounding up all the neighborhood dogs and urging them to howl Mozart.
Best that can be hoped for is that evolution is slowly tipping the scales towards a population with a moral sense, and not just a passion for ripe bananas, at any cost. Those not there currently won’t be persuaded.
I have my fingers crossed, but not expecting to live long enough to see it.
Humanoids … quite possibly hopeless.
Welp Ryan ain’t getting the reaction from AARP crowd that they want.
Unlike low-info voters, this AARP convention attendee pay attention.
@AlexNBCNews: Loud boos for Ryan at AARP when he says “The first step to a stronger Medicare is to repeal Obamacare”
@AlexNBCNews
now audience members at AARP are yelling “you lie” as Ryan tells crowd Medicare is going bankrupt #decision2012
@mikeviqueira: Paul Ryan is getting loudly and repeatedly booed at AARP as he calls for repealing Obamacare. #Obama #Romney
DAMNNNN! Ya’ll thought the NAACP crowd was pissed!
@AlexNBCNews
As Ryan says about Obama “He’s put his own job security over your retirement security” lady in crowd yells “NO, Obama cares!” #decision2012
Romney/Ryan made 2 mistakes, first, sending this young buck to tell old people of AARP that they’ve had it too damn easy. I’m just sayin’ but old people don’t seem to like being lectured by whippersnappers.
Secondly, they made the mistake of assuming the attendees at AARP or like the low info voter crowds of senior they got in FL. Nope, the AARP crowd actually reads the monthlies and pay attention. So yeah you gonna get booed if you attack medicare and such.
The whippersnapper vibe was awe-striking.
The Misunderstandig – a Myth – late Review
the Republican party has gone too far to the right of the Corporate-owned PermaGov.
Simple enough to understand…it’s bad for business.
If the Dems went too far to the left of said PermaGov, they would lose too.
It’s now all about what we might laughingly call “centrism.”
Not centrism in terms of good common sense, though. Centrism in terms of how best to balance out the country and its economy for another quarter and then another quarter and then another quarter. Short-term centrism. Pragmatic centrism. Deal with global warming? Sure, as long as it doesn’t pull down profits, because when profits go down CEOs and other oligarchs lose their jobs. Deal with the reasons for the incredible degree of hatred that the United States has earned over much of the world during the last 60 years or so? Sure, as long as it doesn’t disrupt the militarily enforced, economic imperialism-fueled U.S. economy to the degree that…once again…the 1% that rules the corporate PermaGov feels some sort of serious heat on their well-tailored mortal asses.
But…short term ain’t gonna solve the real problems, Booman. It’s not going to stop the polar icecaps from melting away like midsummer popsicles and it’s not going to quiet the armed masses of the world who have fucking had enough of our bullying.
You titled this piece “You Can’t Be Indifferent.”
Well…right back atcha, brother.
Supporting people who are only going to propose short term fixes no matter how much control of the government they are ceded…and I think that this is quite obvious regarding Obama considering who he has hired (or been told to hire/forced to hire if he wants to remain president) as his “advisors”…supporting these people is “indifference” to the larger, long-term problems at hand. Your argument…and considering your real intelligence, this argument comes off as self-defensive at best…is basically that it’s either the Dems or a bunch of knuckle-dragging Republicans. And mine is that you are choosing a slow and at least partially less certain death rather than a quick and bloody defeat.
Very pragmatic if they are the only two options.
But they are not.
They are the only two options that are being presented to us by the mainstream PermaGov-controlled media, so practically speaking yes, these are the only short-term options that are possible. But accepting this fact of life in the U.S. is the ultimate act of indifference if one realizes that they are only short-term offers.
In my own view, resistance to the system that forcibly (by the force of media) limits us to such two-dimensional choices on the only non-“indifferent” possible action.
You…and the majority of the American people…are supporting a course that will end badly for the country, long-term. I am convinced of this. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement and eventually freedom of action and thought will be the end result of the Permanent War, Permanent Government surveillance state.
Orwell’s 1984 was just a cartoon compared to this rapidly burgeoning reality. An etch-a-sketch version. This one? A Rembrandt in comparison. A masterpiece of repression.
You worry about fascist Republicans?
Hell, man…we haven’t even found a word that adequately defines or describes what is happening here.
Obama’s going to win, and the Dems will quite likely take back the House as well. The Republican Party will not survive this fiasco any more than will its social dinosaur base live forever. That base is right next to extinction already as far as I can see. In 20 years, people like that Terry Jones fella will be as rare as other extinct American types like Italian mafiosi, quick=draw western gunfighters and mountain man Indian killers. We’ll see ’em in the movies and wonder at our interesting history. But will that latest extinction end “evil” in America? I think not.
It will be replaced by a better “evil.” A more modern, more efficient evil. A kinder, gentler evil. I can see it coming. Fast. Short term? Better Obama than Romney, and better Demrats than Ratpubs. But long-term? I cannot be “indifferent” about that. Not when the Arctic is melting, the whole Muslim world is in open rebellion against our dominance and little, pissy nations like Israel and Palestine have nuclear weapons.
Rmemeber…you can beat all of the odds some of the time or you can beat some of the odds all the time, but you can’t beat all of the odds all of the time. Short-term thinking never looks at the third dimension of that statement, and that’s why crooks always eventually go down.
I just don’t want to go down with them.
So I resist.
To paraphrase your own stement above:
If you say “to hell with the long-term and to hell with three-dimensional thinking” then I say to hell with you.
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice” said Martin Luther King Jr.
Remember that, and I’ll see ya in about four years. We’ll talk then…if of course you are not too busy by then being a Democratic consultant to have time for other dimensions, and also if we even remain a viable nation or culture in four years.
Too big to fail?
So far…but it ain’t over yet, this particular arc. I’m sure that the Romans had a saying something like this…Nimium magnum deficient.…just before the barbarians came through the gates.
Too big to fail?
Watch.
Good work, Booman.
It looks like you are going to get your “four more years.”
But whatchoo gonna do about the long term?
I can’t wait.
Later…
AG
P.S. Also remember…there is a big difference between “indifferent” and just plain different.
Bet on it.
In ObamaLand/post-ObamaLand, “different” is going to end up being a crime.
Watch.
I guess I left a welt.
No, Booman. You didn’t leave a welt because I have way backed off out of your reach. You are now a professional denizen of the mainstream political culture and you probably cannot afford to open your mind past the Dem talking points. Your posts and responses are almost pre-written. I have just about given up on getting through to you, but there are other people reading this blog so I continue to lay it down as I see it.
On the evidence of what I have written here and elsewhere on the leftiness blogs, the word “indifferent” would be one of the least accurate epithets that anyone could possibly aim at me. I paid it no mind, personally.
Disappointed?
Sorry.
So it goes.
AG
Please, Arthur.
When you write such a long defense of yourself when I didn’t even mention you, it’s obvious that you know I’m right. What you’re trying to say is true, too, but is not a refutation of my point. You can’t be indifferent about either this election or climate change, for example. You have to take a stand against xenophobia and warmongering and gay-bashing and economic malpractice, even if they other side has a dangerous foreign policy, too.
Where do you stand on that?
Personally, I prefer to vote people like that out of office, whether they be real wannabe Nazis or they’re just muddled-head racist moneywhores.
What makes you think that I am a liar, Booman? That reply is not a “defense of myself,” it’s a well-reasoned attack on your position as an apologist for the Security State that is presently masquerading as a liberal Democratic Party.
I don’t feel like I have any reason to “defend myself,” Booman. I say what I have to say and people either pick up on it or they don’t. I really don’t expect to reach many people. Life as a jazz artist…and among jazz artists… in today’s world will teach you that. Bet on it.
We just keep laying it down.
And we do keep trying.
AG