Month: September 2012

I am a skeptic about the effectiveness of missile defense systems, and I don’t want to have a big debate about them. Whether we build a system in Eastern Europe or not is not something I stay up at night thinking about. But if getting a system in place there is important to you, you should notice that Mitt Romney is making it more difficult to accomplish just because he’s an idiot. Vladimir Putin is saying that the mere possibility of Mitt Romney being elected, now or in four years, is forcing him to treat any proposed missile shield as a way to diminish Russia’s nuclear deterrence. Even the prospect of someone who thinks like Mitt Romney getting elected (i.e., a neo-conservative Republican stuck in a Cold War mind-warp) is forcing Russia to take a hard line against a Eastern European missile shield.

By arguing in public that Russia is still America’s number one geopolitical foe, Romney has harmed our relations with Russia.

“I’m grateful to him (Romney) for formulating his stance so clearly because he has once again proven the correctness of our approach to missile defense problems,” Putin told reporters, according to the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

“The most important thing for us is that even if he doesn’t win now, he or a person with similar views may come to power in four years. We must take that into consideration while dealing with security issues for a long perspective,” he said, speaking after a meeting with Serbian President Tomislav Nikolic, according to Interfax news agency.

After meeting with Obama recently, Putin said he was “a very honest man”, “quite sincere.” and that he could strike a deal on a missile shield with him. Here’s what he said about Romney:

During the same interview with Russia Today last week, Putin said he could work with Romney, but also expressed concerns about the GOP nominee, or someone with similar views, taking over the reins of the missile defense shield.

“In that case, the system will definitely be directed at Russia,” he said, according to a transcript posted on Putin’s official website.

Let’s go over this slowly for the dumb people. If you think it is important to get a missile defense system installed in Eastern Europe, Obama has convinced Putin that he can trust him and have effective negotiations with him that will allow your wish to come true. However, Putin has to consider the possibility that some mental defect like Mitt Romney might be elected one day in the not too distant future, and that is causing him to step back from making an agreement with the Obama administration.

Even when the Republicans lose elections, they hurt our national security simply because they exist, they’re crazy, they aren’t trustworthy, and they’ll eventually win power over our Pentagon again.

It’s not restricted to Russia, either. Romney has threatened to start a trade war with China if he is elected. Just saying stupid shit like that makes it harder to deal with China.

Saying that he’ll let Israel control our Middle Eastern policy vis-a-vis Iran and the Palestinians, makes it harder for us to mobilize an international anti-proliferation campaign against Iran.

He’s done us no favors with our traditional Western European allies, either. Only 3% of Britons say that their opinion of America would improve if we elect Mitt Romney.

I doubt there were more than a single handful of souls at the State Department today who failed to curse Mitt Romney’s rudeness under their breath, if not right out loud.

His whole foreign policy is built around the idea that we should never apologize for anything we’ve ever done, and yet he gives mortal offense to everyone he meets.

It’s not enough for this man to be defeated and to go away. He’s fucking up our country just by running for president.

See my follow-up diary – Film Desert Warrior to ‘The Innocence of Muslims’ Unravels In Media.

Muhammad Film Consultant: ‘Sam Bacile’ is Not Israeli, and Not a Real Name

(The Atlantic) – As part of my search for more information about Sam Bacile, the alleged producer of the now-infamous anti-Muhammad film trailer “The Innocence of Muslims,” I just called a man named Steve Klein — a self-described militant Christian activist in Riverside, California.

Klein told me that Bacile, the producer of the film, is not Israeli, and most likely not Jewish, as has been reported, and that the name is, in fact, a pseudonym. He said he did not know “Bacile”‘s real name. He said Bacile contacted him because he leads anti-Islam protests outside of mosques and schools, and because, he said, he is a Vietnam veteran and an expert on uncovering al Qaeda cells in California.

“I can tell you this for sure, the State of Israel is not involved, Terry Jones (the radical Christian Quran-burning pastor) is not involved. There are about 15 people associated with the making of the film. Nobody is anything but an active American citizen. They’re from Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, they’re some that are from Egypt. Some are Copts but the vast majority are Evangelical.”

Klein’s anti-Islam protest: Chaparral high school students enmeshed in mosque debate plus photo.

Jim Horn, a Menifee-based author, and Steve Klein of San Jacinto hand out fliers to students leaving Chaparral High School. The fliers argue that Islam does not qualify for protection under the First Amendment because the religion does not foster peace. The men are members of a group called Concerned Citizens for The First Amendment (CCFA).

Laurie Webster, the mother of a Chaparral student, said she was mortified when her daughter came home with the flier that had been handed out by Horn.

“They say these terrible things and they don’t back them up. It’s fear-mongering targeted to children.”

During some of his previous First Amendment outreaches and in associated lawsuits, Klein has argued against the comments of a pastor and San Clemente’s ban on anti-illegal-immigrant leaflets. Klein said he also has faced off against a group of Saudi Arabian Muslims in San Diego.

CCFA linked to National American Coptic Assembly

• Steven A. Klein linked to Jihad Watch – LA Sheriff Lee Baca must be fired for praising Hamas-linked CAIR
• Jihad Watch – U.S. Embassy in Cairo condemns murderous Muslim rages “religious incitement”
• Spencer Distorts Egyptian Society and Spreads Interfaith Bigotry

Spat over leaflets vs. litter: Supreme Court won’t hear it

The US Supreme Court declined to enter a dispute between a group of political activists and the City of San Clemente, Calif., over an attempt to ban the distribution of leaflets on car windshields within city limits.

The dispute stems from a June 2007 incident in which Steve Klein and nine other individuals were confronted by sheriff’s deputies while distributing literature about immigration policy on car windshields. The deputies advised Mr. Klein that he was violating the city’s antilittering ordinance.

Mr. Steve Klein – Business Profile

Mr. Steve Klein
Secretary and Founder
Phone:(909) *–*
Email:s*@**.com
Local Address: California, United States

Interesting, a ministry for post-Mormons and friends:
Courageous Christians United
 P.O. Box 1374
 West Jordan, Utah 84084
 United States

Employment History

Chief Executive Officer
Courageous Christians United

Executive Director
Courageous Christians United

President, Owner
Wise Insurance, Inc

President-Elect
San Diego Marine Corp Officers Association

President
United States Marine Corps Reserve Officers Association of San Diego County

Board Memberships and Affiliations

Board Member
San Diego Christians United

“This silence is ironic considering that sexual deviants, who comprise a tiny percentage of the general population, are among the most vocal and aggressive special-interest groups working to impose their fascist vision of unfettered sexual license on the majority of decent, moral citizens,” said CCU executive director Steve Klein [about the National Day of Silence].

These are mainly high school students he’s talking about.

The following is quoted (for educational purposes) from CCU’s website, where Klein advises how to turn a Day of Silence into Ditch Day “by holding back your property, your children, from the homofascists using the public schools to search for, locate and molest your children or recruit them to that death style….”

Education
BA with honors, Political Science
Cal State University Long Beach

Photo Steve Klein

Disappointed over President Clinton’s dalliance with a White House intern, the Dean of the Washington Press Crop famously quipped, “He came in here and he trashed the place, and it’s not his place.” Most of us shared at least most of Mr. Broder’s disappointment, but we laughed at him nevertheless. It was a perfect illustration of the DC Village mentality, that the ultimate fate of the presidency should be decided based on a small clique of elites’ outraged sense that they were the custodians of the Republic’s reputation.

So, believe me, just because everyone in the Beltway bands together to condemn the behavior of a politician doesn’t mean I am going to be moved by it. I mean, fuck them. But that’s what Mitt Romney has accomplished with his foray into foreign policy. Condi Rice ignored his comments. Peggy Noonan said they were indiscreet. Mark Halperin called them craven. Chuck Todd and Gang called them “over the top” and “inaccurate.” John Sununu criticized them. Anonymous Republican staffers called them things like “a cheap news cycle hit” and “unbelievable” and “bad.”

There are plenty of places you can go to see assemblages of these types of responses. Meanwhile, Republican leaders like Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, John Boehner, John McCain, and even Paul Ryan all refused to follow suit and echo any of Romney’s accusations or characterizations.

Let’s face it. The GOP may talk smack about the State Department, but it’s a big, respected part of our government, and it’s integral to the culture of Washington DC. When four members of the Department are killed in the line of duty by a rocket propelled grenade, the city goes into mourning. Mitt Romney was acting like the loonies from the Westboro Baptist Church who protest our soldiers’ funerals. It was offensive to everyone who lives and works in the District. I mean, it was offensive period, but it was personal with people on Capitol Hill.

Romney’s insensitive remarks were squeezed in between the remarks of Secretary of State Clinton and President Obama. Clinton and Obama then proceeded to the State Department to console the staff there. This only made Romney’s move look even more crass and unpresidential.

People do not want to defend him.

Nevertheless, the Romney campaign is passing out stupid talking points to Republicans on the Hill.

No one likes Mitt Romney. That was true yesterday. Today the feeling is just more intense.

I’m going to take the 2nd paragraph of Jason Zengerle’s post last month about Barack Obama out of context, because I think it applies to Mitt Romney’s actions in the context of yesterday’s attacks on US embassies in Libya and Egypt.

“Three years ago, John McCain reacted to the collapse of Lehman Brothers by suspending his campaign, standing up David Letterman, and calling to postpone the first presidential debate. Obama, meanwhile, kept his head. Even as he engaged in furious negotiations with Hank Paulson and congressional Democrats to hammer out the TARP plan–at one point, according to Jonathan Alter’s The Promise, stepping in between the Treasury secretary and an enraged Barney Frank–Obama publicly exuded calm, staying out on the stump and pledging to show up at the debate even if his opponent didn’t. “It is going to be part of the president’s job to deal with more than one thing at once,” he explained. His steady performance cemented the decisive contrast of the campaign: No Drama Obama versus the Erratic McCain. As Obama’s campaign communications director Anita Dunn later told Alter, “In the ten days between the Lehman collapse and the first debate, everyone suddenly saw him as the next president.””

Based on the evidence of the past 18 hours, I think it’s safe to say nobody is going to write a paragraph like that about Mitt Romney.

Those of us who followed the 2008 Democratic presidential campaign remember lots of talk about the “3 am phone call”, and whether Barack Obama could handle it.  McCain’s reaction to the Lehman Brothers collapse demonstrated that, despite decades of military and foreign policy experience, he wasn’t ready for the 3 am phone call.  In similar fashion, as James Fallows (among others) points out, Mitt Romney hasn’t handled this 3 am phone call well at all.

For over a year now, the Romney campaign has been defined by its tactical approach—doing whatever was necessary to deal with the challenge of the moment.  As a result, despite winning the GOP nomination, Gov. Romney finds himself fighting a campaign being waged on the strategic grounds preferred by Pres. Obama.

By contrast, the Obama campaign has spent over a year preparing to face Mitt Romney.  It was Barack Obama who raised Paul Ryan’s profile in Washington, making him the face of the Congressional wing of the Republican Party.  More importantly, Obama made Ryan’s budgets the policy agenda of the Republican Party.  Obama won’t win this election (if he wins it at all) by the margin Dick Nixon won in 1972, but no incumbent president in the intervening 40 years has done more to pick and define his opponent than Barack Obama has done for 2012.

In reacting (and overreacting) to the events in Libya and Egypt, Romney has tried to gain a tactical advantage.  It’s too early to say how this will all play out, but right now it looks like Romney will benefit from his actions today about as much as John McCain did by “suspending” his campaign after the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

Did any of you see Mitt Romney’s little press conference? He seriously decided to insult the staff of the Cairo Embassy and attack the president, rather than sticking to expressing his condolences for the lives lost and the mourning family members and State Department employees. It’s the biggest jerk move I’ve ever seen from a presidential candidate. I’m angry. I’d like to run Romney out of the country on a rail.

Sequence of Events

1. Gaddafi says he’ll hunt down the terrorists of Benghazi like rats.
2. The United Nations intervenes, led by NATO.
3. Benghazi is saved and Gaddafi is hunted down like a rat.
4. Some fruit-loop makes a stupid YouTube about Mohammed.
5. The Embassy in Cairo realizes trouble is brewing and condemns the fruit-loop’s stupid YouTube about Mohammed.
6. Angry Muslims storm our consulate in Benghazi and kill our Ambassador and three other government employees with a rocket-propelled grenade.
7. Ignoring that 5. came before 6., Mitt Romney issues press release blasting the administration for reacting to the death of our ambassador by sympathizing with the murderers.

So, who is the bigger asshole? Is it Mitt Romney, who actually issued this press release on 9/11, asked for it to be embargoed until midnight, and then flip-flopped on that and let it go out anyway? Or is it the stupid ungrateful bastards in Benghazi who were apparently operating under the logic that it doesn’t matter who pays for the posting of some stupid YouTube as long as someone pays?

I’m going to cut Romney some slack here because he didn’t kill anything but the time-space continuum with his moronic and insensitive press release.

Here’s a surprise. People in other countries hate Mitt Romney and will think less favorably towards America if we elect him president. Who could have guessed it? Over in Britain, they are particularly disdainful of the Mittster (only 3% want to see him elected). And they only perceive three areas where he has articulated a foreign policy. They are real crowd-pleasers:

…the findings play into a larger question over Romney’s foreign policy credentials. Little is known about his position on these issues, mainly because he has had little to say, espousing only three positions: support for Israel in the event of it bombing Iran; a threat to launch a trade war against China over alleged currency manipulation; and identifying Russia as America’s main threat.

I believe that is three strikes and you’re out.

Apparently, the Romney campaign believes that no one cares about foreign policy and the election will be decided solely on the condition of the economy (which is not that bad, by the way). But Team Romney should consider a simple fact. One of the three presidential debates will be devoted exclusively to foreign policy, as will half of the vice-presidential debate. That’s 37.5% of the total debate time. Do they think they can concede almost 40% of the debates and still come out on top?

The presidential foreign policy debate is the last debate, scheduled for October 22nd. It’s probably not as important as the first debate, since first impressions are very important, but it will be the send-off note for the electorate. It will provide the taste in everyone’s mouth when they cast their ballots. Telling people that you want to start another war in the Middle East, revive the Cold War, and start a trade war with China is not going to sit well with people who can still remember unpleasantries in all three areas.

You want to know how unpopular Mitt Romney is abroad. About the only place where people would be modestly happier if he won is Pakistan, and Obama has been bombing their country for four years. The numbers?

…the prospect of [Romney] winning the White House was greeted with less dismay in Pakistan, where about 13% of respondents said it would make them more favourable to the US, compared to just 9% who said it would make them less favorable.

I don’t think Americans suffer from total amnesia. They may be taking Obama’s saner foreign policy a bit for granted, but they don’t want to see the neo-conservatives back in charge of our foreign policy. A brief look at today’s New York Times tells us why.

Meanwhile, the Egyptians are mad at us, but no one seems to really understand what set them off.

It’s not a good week to be part of the Romney presidential campaign brain trust.  The Romney/Ryan ticket got no discernible bounce from the Republican Convention in Tampa two weeks ago.  Last week the Democrats held their convention up the road in Charlotte, and the general agreement was that Pres. Obama delivered a better speech than anyone at the Republican convention…but finishing out of the money among prime time speakers for the Democrats.  (Heck, he gave the 2nd best speech in his immediate family.)  This week the polls are showing signs of a significant Obama/Biden bounce—both nationwide and in the 8-10 potential swing states.

Paul Ryan entered the Republican convention with a reputation as a brave, honest policy wonk—one who could appease the party’s right wing about Romney’s malleable political views, while also taking the fight to Obama and Biden on a host of budgetary, tax and fiscal issues.  After delivering as mendacious a speech as most political observers could recall, Ryan suddenly found his marathon running and mountain climbing records being fact-checked by a suddenly skeptical press.

Romney and Ryan appeared on multiple Sunday TV news shows, and may have set a new one-day record for flip-flops by a presidential/vice-presidential team.  In particular, Romney’s position on health care went through four iterations before the sun went down.

So what do you do now if you’re part of the brain trust in campaign headquarters up in Boston?

Do you try to rev up the base by reviving the Culture Wars?

Do you try to focus relentlessly on the economy?

Do you just try to ride out the storm, knowing that Obama’s post-convention bounce will disappear in another week or so?

Do you have the candidate deliver a series of speeches laying out in great detail what he would do in his first 100 days in office?

Do you save those policy ideas for Oct. 3 and spring them on an unsuspecting Obama at the first presidential debate?

What do you do?

Crossposted at: http://masscommons.wordpress.com/

US consulate employee killed in Libya attack h/t Marie2

lBENGHAZI, Libya (AlJazeera) – An American staff member of the US consulate in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi has died following fierce clashes at the compound, Libyan security sources said. An armed mob attacked and set fire to the building in a protest against an amateur film deemed offensive to Islam’s Prophet Muhammad, after similar protests in Egypt’s capital.

“One American staff member has died and a number have been injured in the clashes,” Abdel-Monem Al-Hurr, spokesman for Libya’s Supreme Security Committee, said on Wednesday, adding that rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the building from a nearby farm.

“There are fierce clashes between the Libyan army and an armed militia outside the US consulate.” He also said roads had been closed off and security forces were surrounding the building.

Just hours earlier on Tuesday, thousands of Egyptian demonstrators apparently angry over the same film – a video produced by expatriate members of Egypt’s Coptic community resident in the US – tore down the Stars and Stripes at the US embassy in Cairo and replaced it with a black Islamic flag.

Outrage continues into the night outside US embassy in Cairo (Video)

Anti-Islam movie funded by 100 Jewish donors, producer claims

(Times of Israel) – The protests in both countries were sparked by outrage over a video being promoted by an extreme anti-Muslim Egyptian Christian campaigner in the United States. Sam Bacile, the writer, director and producer of the movie that he says showcases his view of Islam as a hateful religion, was funded by $5 million from about 100 Jewish donors who he declined to identify, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.

Protests spurred by film in US mocking prophet Muhammad

(The Spec) – Organizers of the protest at the embassy said they’d begun planning the event last week when a controversial Egyptian Christian activist who lives in the United States, Morris Sadek, released a trailer for a movie called “Muhammad” that repeatedly mocks the prophet and the religion. The 14-minute clip, which Sadek first posted on his Facebook page Sept 5, attacked basic tenets of the Islam and suggested that the religion had spread only because the prophet told those he encountered to “pay extortion or die” if they didn’t convert.

Protesters outraged in Egypt and Libya over
blasphemy

(Guardian) – Sam Bacile, an American citizen who said he produced, directed and wrote the two-hour film said he had not anticipated such a furious reaction. Speaking from a telephone with a California number, he said the film was produced in English and he doesn’t know who dubbed it in Arabic.

“The main problem is I am the first one to put on the screen someone who is (portraying) Muhammad. It makes them mad,” he said in an interview in a telephone number in California. “But we have to open the door. After 9/11 everybody should be in front of the judge, even Jesus, even Muhammad.”

He said many of the film’s cast quit half way through the production, which he started “three or four” years ago, because they were afraid of Muslims. The film also addresses the persecution of Copts in Egypt and blames the U.S. and its allies for fighting Muslims. “The U.S. should fight the ideology, not the people.”

Morris Sadek, an Egyptian-born Christian in the U.S. known for his anti-Islam views, told AP from Washington that he was promoting the video on his website and on certain TV stations, which he did not identify. He said the video “explains the problems of the Copts who suffer from Muslims,” which he blamed on the Quran itself.

National American coptic Assembly- President Morris Sadek

• Charles Krauthammer: Tell Egyptian mob “go to hell”
• U.S. Pro-Israel Think Tank Middle East Forum helped fund Dutch anti-Islam politician Wilders

Original title: U.S. Embassy Cairo – Protestors Breach the Security Walls below the fold …

Emergency Message for U.S. Citizens No. 24: Possible Demonstrations, September 11, 2012

CAIRO, Egypt – Several different groups are calling for demonstrations in both downtown and Garden City this afternoon to protest a range of issues. These groups may gather in front of the U.S. Embassy, or Egyptian government buildings such as the People’s Assembly and Ministry of Interior, beginning in the early afternoon and continuing into the evening.  It is unclear if large numbers will take to the streets, but clashes may occur should two opposing groups come into contact with one another. Large gatherings and non-essential travel in and around Downtown and Garden City should be avoided this afternoon.

U.S. citizens should avoid areas where large gatherings may occur.  Even demonstrations or events intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into violence.  U.S. citizens in Egypt are urged to monitor local news reports and to plan their activities accordingly. The Embassy reminds U.S. citizens to review their personal security plans and remain alert to their surroundings at all times in Egypt.

Egyptians angry at film scale U.S. embassy walls

CAIRO, Egypt (Reuters) – Egyptian protesters scaled the walls of the U.S. embassy in Cairo and pulled down the American flag during a protest over what they said was a film being produced in the United States that insulted Prophet Mohammad, witnesses said.

In place of the U.S. flag, the protesters tried to raise a black flag with the words “There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger.” Once the U.S. flag was hauled down, protesters tore it up, with some showing off small pieces to television cameras. Then others burned remains.

“This movie must be banned immediately and an apology should be made … This is a disgrace,” said 19-year-old, Ismail Mahmoud, a member of the so-called “ultras” soccer supporters who played a big role in the uprising that brought down Hosni Mubarak last year. Many Muslims consider any depiction of the Prophet to be offensive.

Mahmoud called on President Mohamed Mursi, Egypt’s first civilian president and an Islamist, to take action. Many others were supporters of Islamist groups.

About 20 people stood on top of the embassy wall in central Cairo, where about 2,000 protesters had gathered.

“There is no god but Allah, Mohammad is Allah’s messenger. We will sacrifice ourselves for you, Allah’s messenger,” they chanted, with many waving religious flags.

One slogan scrawled on the walls of the embassy, a fortress-like structure that is near Tahrir Square where Egyptians revolted against Mubarak, said: “If your freedom of speech has no limits, may you accept our freedom of action.”

An Egyptian state website carried a statement by Egypt’s Coptic Orthodox Church condemning what it said were moves by some Copts living abroad “to finance the production of a film insulting Prophet Mohammad”.

Violent anti-Semitism applauded on Egypt TV – Jerusalem Post

Since 1988, the Republicans have won the popular vote exactly once. That was in 2004 when, aided by a deficit of voting machines in Democratic strongholds in Ohio, President Bush was reelected with a three million vote national advantage. In Ohio, he won by 118,000 votes. That’s 60,000 people in one state who could have changed their minds and flipped the election to Kerry. That’s the high-water mark for the GOP in presidential elections since 1988. You could describe it as having no cushion. They stole the 2000 election, which helps to obscure their overall record of failure.

Bush’s Electoral College tally was 271 in 2000 and 285 in 2004. By comparison, Bill Clinton got 370 in 1992, 379 in 1996, and Barack Obama got 365 in 2008. On his site, Nate Silver has a chart that plots the probability of Obama getting any particular number of electoral votes. By far, the highest plot on the chart is 330, which Obama has about an 18% chance of attaining. Most of the rest of that action on that chart lies above 330 votes.

When you look at Romney’s state-by-state strategy, you can see that he is effectively conceding about 247 electoral votes, meaning that his absolute upside is 291 electoral votes. If he actually gets 291 votes, he’ll do better than Bush ever did.

It may seem like this is a conservative country, but it’s actually tilted to the left on the national level. There are areas that are stubbornly supportive of the Republican Party, so we will not see a Democrat win 49 states as both Nixon and Reagan were once able to do. But the Republicans are now at the point where cracking 300 electoral votes is nearly impossible, while the Democrats’ ultimate best case scenario is closer to 400 votes.

What this means is that the Republicans really can’t afford any more slippage. If even one more large state becomes safely blue, their maximum upside will fall below 270 and they won’t be able to compete for the White House at all.

Because the Republicans have decided to brand themselves as the party of white conservative Christians, small business owners, and Wall Street fat cats, they have assured themselves more slippage.

What will be interesting to watch is how fast the big money donors figure out that the modern GOP isn’t worth any investment (at least, in presidential elections) and how quickly the GOP changes in response. Notice that none other than Rupert Murdoch is pleading with Mitt Romney to stop pandering to the religious right and get after the middle. But both Romney and McCain analyzed their situation and decided they needed to stimulate the base more than they needed to pander to the middle. Why did they decide that? What were they seeing that I don’t see and Mr. Murdoch doesn’t see? Why does base turnout always seem to trump persuasion with the GOP presidential candidates?

I don’t know the answer to that question. But, I wish I did, because knowing the answer would help me figure out how the GOP will respond to their coming irrelevancy. Will they listen to the big money folks who don’t give a crap about abortion or will they continue to believe that only an energized army of crazies gives them any hope of success? And, if they get it wrong at first, how long will it take them to figure that out and remake themselves?