As you know, in 2008, I made a commitment to the candidacy of Barack Obama after he won the Iowa Caucuses. If John Edwards had won the Iowa Caucuses, I would have thrown my limited weight behind him, albeit with significantly less enthusiasm. It was a hard stance to take because, due to the Pie Fight, my audience was made up largely of women of a certain age who had a natural affinity for the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. Most of them left the site, and I thank most of them for doing it silently and respectfully. While they were here, they were great members who taught more about women’s point of view and experience than I have learned from any other source. I never intended to alienate them, and am still conflicted about how my political judgment impacted them. The bottom line was that my opposition to Hillary was about Bill, and the people that Bill surrounded himself with. I am talking about people like Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Mark Penn, and Paul Begala. I desperately wanted to avoid seeing those people re-empowered.
If Hillary Clinton had chosen new and different people to lead her campaign, I might have been more open-minded, but she didn’t. I was very impressed with her performance and behavior as Secretary of State, and my opinion of her has softened considerably, but I still have all the old reservations that will impact how I feel about a potential run for the Democratic nomination in 2016. I really have to compartmentalize those feelings in order to do a fair analysis of the potential upside of a Clinton candidacy.
Yes, I still feel hostile to the idea of the Clintons taking over the party and putting all their people in charge. I still feel like her people are hostile to progressives. I still feel like we can do better. But I also know that progressive outcomes are better correlated with raw power than ideological purity. Obama is freer to let his progressive flag fly now that he doesn’t have to face reelection, but he doesn’t have the numbers in Congress to do anything.
The big question we have to ask ourselves as we assess the 2016 candidates, is how big can than they win? Can they win big enough to retake the House and win back 60 votes in the Senate?
The truth is that Evan Bayh would produce more progress with the House and 60 votes in the Senate than Obama can produce in the current situation. Ideology is important, but nothing matters a whole lot if you don’t have the power to act.
There are signs that a Clinton candidacy could be strong enough to force the Republicans to play defense in Texas. A recent Public Policy Polling survey found Clinton beating Rick Perry, Marco Rubio, and Chris Christie in the Lone Star State. My explanation for this is that hostility to Obama’s skin color is masking the true weakness of the modern Republican Party. In a very real way, racism is propping the GOP up and giving them a false sense of confidence that they are still a force to be reckoned with in national elections.
That’s part of it. If I am right, then any white Democratic nominee is going to start out in a commanding position in 2016. But Clinton brings something else. Her husband was able to carry states like Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Missouri, and Montana, that have been hostile to President Obama. Those states are critical to keeping the GOP a viable alternative to the Democrats. They can’t be playing defense in those states.
The question I have is, have those states moved irrevocably into the conservative camp during the W. and Obama years, or can Hillary Clinton bring those people back into the Democratic fold? And, is this something that only she can do, and not other likely candidates like Govs. Cuomo of New York, O’Malley of Maryland, Vice President Biden, or Senator Mark Warner. You know, add your own dream candidate, since none of the ones I mentioned are likely to quicken the heartbeat of progressives.
Most analysts think Texas will be purple by 2024 and blueish by 2028. But the chairman of the state’s GOP is already concerned.
While the knee-jerk reaction among many Republicans would be to dismiss the idea that the state could be competitive in 2016 — just four years after Mitt Romney carried it by 16 points over President Obama — Texas GOP Chairman Steve Munisteri is in no mood to sneer.
In an interview with RCP, Munisteri said that he has long taken seriously the possibility that Texas could become a battleground as early as 2016, particularly if Clinton becomes the Democratic standard-bearer.
“If she’s the nominee, I would say that this is a ‘lean Republican’ state but not a ‘solid Republican’ state,” he said. “I don’t know anyone nationally who’s scoffing at this. The national party leadership is aware and tells me they’re taking it seriously.”
Munisteri said that he has had recent discussions with Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus about the need to prepare for a significant change in the political dynamic here, noting that the need will likely become even more pressing in the next decade. That’s when Texas is expected to see its minority population rise more sharply — as it adds as many as four additional electoral votes to make it an even shinier target for Democrats than it already is.
So, the conundrum for a progressive is this. Is this real? Is Hillary Clinton uniquely suited to the job of destroying the modern Republican Party? Can she (and she alone) accelerate this process by as much as two presidential election cycles (or eight years)?
I will keep analyzing this idea. I know that we can win a victory in 2016, possibly with a candidate who is far to the left of Obama on a host of important issues. But that might not bring the biggest and fastest progress.
I have an open mind. What do you think?
The GOP will never change until their ass is whooped and whooped hard. Hillary can do it.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first part: the most important objective for American politics is to deal the Republicans big political defeats, so that they realize they have to change course.
I don’t know about that second part, though. What makes her so uniquely capable of giving them that beating?
Unique and irreplaceable are not necessarily the same thing. But Clinton brings a political bloc that is shaped differently than Obama’s. And with Obama’s enthusiastic endorsement, she can probably retain almost all of Obama’s bloc. That alone makes her extremely formidable. She also has the potential to add to her bloc by virtue of a combination of factors, including the admiration and respect she has won on the right, her family history as moderate DLC Democrats, her gender, and the anti-woman stance the GOP is taking, particularly in the states.
Simply put, she is positioned to win a greater share of women, and a much greater share of white, working class folks who are somewhat socially conservative and not necessarily cool with the rainbow look of the Democratic Party. She’s a natural to win disaffected internationalists who have lost faith in the GOP’s ability to act on the world stage.
I think she could skunk the Republicans very badly.
I agree whole heartedly with your take on Hillary. The Clinton team – add Terry McCauliff – is gag worthy. Mark Penn – ? Total jerk. Which is a major reason why I am not enthusiastic about her potential candidacy. She seems to have a tin ear and plays the political framing as it has developed over the years, which is largely on conservative ground. Unlike Obama, who is guided by his own common sense and practical instincts. BUT. She would hold the coalition that Obama has assembled and perhaps build on that. The most important thing going forward is to not go in reverse in ’16.
No, I don’t think she can.
What people forget is that prior to her being SECSTATE, when she was an actual politician, her negatives were huge. If she runs and brings back the Clinton machine those negatives will come back. It also screams of nepotism and many of us have no stomach for the Clintonites. I want them all to go away.
I didn’t support Obama in the primaries, but in 2008 my stance was “I’ll vote for any Democrat in the general election that isn’t Clinton”… that hasn’t changed. That entire clan should be kept as far away from elected office as possible.
Besides, Clinton dragged our party straight into the current neoliberal economic mess and turned us into a puppet of Wall Street, another Clinton would make that worse.
How things look now when we are looking at Hilary the SECSTATE, is not how things will look when we are facing Clinton 2.0 with the Clinton machine coming back. Many people will run for the hills.
Thanks, but no thanks.
You’re right. Obviously not. And more to the point:
Even WITH filibuster reform it will be highly difficult to get 51 Senators to agree to anything Wall Street doesn’t want. Without it, impossible.
Noam Chomsky is right on this one. It isn’t individuals, its the SYSTEM that determines what can get done. We need to dramatically raise capital gains rates on the rich so that they can’t afford to spend all this money buying elections.
It’s getting WORSE BTW. Koch brothers just launched a new organization to influence and lobby STATE legislatures. So, they’re taking their national act local.
That’s exactly how I have always felt about her too. Booman’s giving a different view. I’m not sure I buy it, but I’ll certainly give it some thought. Times have changed, as the numbers seem to indicate. Maybe, just maybe, the Clintons have changed too. But yeah, if they bring back that old crew, forget about it. And frankly, I think Joe Biden would make an excellent president. Fortunately, we have some time to think about it.
Nope they haven’t, Hillary used her time in office to give things to her old corporate buddy Wallmart from her legal days and Bill is still laughing it up with the rich and the centrists.
They haven’t changed at all, and they never will.
You bet your ass he is.
The “fix” view as it now stands.
Hillary Clinton can be trusted to keep the current fix going…I mean, how much further ca n she and Bill prove their allegiance to the PermaGov… and even if she gets too old to govern or win a second term her choice of a running mate (Dictated to her by the controllers…bet on it.) will pretty much guarantee the continuation of the current fix through 2020 at the very least.
After that?
After that the media-run societal control machine will be..mind you, this is only a projection but it’s a pretty good one in my estimation…the media-controlled societal control machine will be so efficient that there will be no more questions about “Who wins?” or “What if a reformer of some kind steps up?” The media-designated winner will win whether it be Mickey Mouse, Abe Lincoln II or some doofus nobody ever heard of before the campaign.
So it goes and wake the fuck up.
You been had.
AG
I don’t know, but the Virginia gubernatorial election is going to be the death of me. I said I would never vote for Terry McAuliffe…
Well, the Cooch might just be enough to bring out a sympathy vote from me. And he still might fucking win. ARHGJSDH!!!!
I feel your pain.
Never vote for a cockroach.
As someone in VA, I’m not going to vote for Terry. I think the Cooch is toast because he’s too extreme and it looks like the moderate (as they are in these days) Repub is going to run as an independent.
So who are you going to vote for? Write-in? It’ll depend on how the polls get when it comes to November.
I probably just won’t bother. I’m not voting for part of the Clinton machine, end of story. They need to go away. They keep managing to insert themselves into all sorts of shit and go straight back to the Clinton play book of the 1990’s that caused us so many problems.
Everytime one gets in office they cause all sorts of problems and got straight back to neoliberalism, just look at what Rham did in Chicago. Plus they make us look bad, because you sure as hell can’t say Democrats care about the middle and working class when you look at what the Clintonites do in office.
I share your concerns about the Clinton camp.
But in thinking about the impact of racism, I suggest you also consider how having a white candidate might weaken the Democratic coalition – mostly in terms of enthusiasm.
I’m not suggesting this would make up for the dampening of support as a result of racism, but I do think that Hillary particularly brings some baggage with her (especially w/ black women) from the 2008 campaign that would need to be dealt with. The other question would be what her support looks like in the Latino community and w/ young people. Haven’t heard much about that.
I think a lot would depend on how Obama will figure into the campaign. If he plays a role, I think he can bring those components that support him but might be lukewarm towards Clinton or another candidate along.
Yes, but you forget that Bill Clinton was America’s “first black president”.
http://twitchy.com/2012/09/05/twitter-celebrates-bill-clinton-americas-first-black-president/
“I didn’t support Obama in the primaries, but in 2008 my stance was “I’ll vote for any Democrat in the general election that isn’t Clinton”… that hasn’t changed.”
Oddly enough, I’ll vote for any Clinton running for any damn thing any time. Just like I did in 2008.
CHELSEA — 2024!!!!
The current sequestration might do it, provided the orange pickle and company do nothing.
Now just 22% of Americans, nearly a record low, consider themselves Republicans, a USA TODAY/Pew Research Center Poll finds.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/02/21/poll-pew-obama-gop-guns-energy-immigration-se
quester/1934233/
</GOP>? Hope so.
Good post, BM.
I was on the other side in the primary fight ’08 – not because of Bill, but because of Hillary herself. It was easy to move over to Obama and work there – just as it proved for Hillary herself.
She can bludgeon the GOP haters, simply gut ’em, like no other candidate can hope to. Yes, she’s unique – and part of being unique springs from her very loyal and no-drama stint as Obama’s star SecState. And Obama himself is clearly signalling “Hillary” with his actions.
I was very doubtful of “structural change” in national politics, the kind that Obama sought and some of his supporters claimed was possible. Now I see it and I give him a lot of credit (while as a progressive, disagreeing with tons of policy points – as would also be the case with Clinton).
It’s because of Obama that the GOP foundation is shaking. And I think only Clinton can give it that final push off its moorings.
Any Democratic president in 2016 would terrify and enrage the white reactionaries.
Don’t count on all the support Hillary receives NOW from conservative whites continuing once she decided to run.
Then they’d have a choice between the “ball-bustin’ bitch” and a “Real Merkin”(TM) (i.e. a white MAN!)
Who do you think they want to “take our country back” FROM anyway?
Answer: Those uppity liberal Feminazis and the Brown Hordes. And Hillary represents both.
They won’t vote for her because they don’t want to be in the same party with all the sinful urban moochers.
Their wives and daughters may feel differently.
Tom, I remember your commentary from ’08 on “The Field”, taking the case for Hillary to a decidedly skeptical crowd. I was a hard sell: I blamed President Clinton for driving ideological rigor from the Democratic Party, and Senator Clinton seemed happy to lend her image to the moribund DLC, which continued to promote more of the same.
Looking ahead to 2016, I don’t have the same concerns about the direction of the party, and having seen both of the Clintons put their weight behind this president, I’ve come to recognize their relationship with old centrist agenda as more of a calculation based on past conditions than an indicator of their designs for the future.
It was a very hard sell! But I really enjoyed that conversation and learned a lot from it. And it was a breeze to move my support from Clinton to Obama after that mesmerizing primary.
I do think the Obama-Clinton machine is as one, right now. He wants her to follow. 50-50 she does. Better for his legacy and post-POTUS work (which will be substantial, I’ll bet).
To tag onto your view that the Hillary/Bill power brokers were/are best swept out the door; I’d ask, ‘how much have the Clintons learned from Obama, his campaign, his policies, his tactics, his people?’
If this were a question of whether Hillary of 2008 were running I’d give her a 50/50 but if she has learned and Bill has accepted Obama’s ways and can then meld hers, it will be a forward momentum that the Rep’s will fight with bent swords.
That is exactly the question I’ll be asking before I support Hillary in the 2016 primaries (in addition to taking a look @ who her competitors are).
Of course, I’ll support whoever wins the nomination.
If (IF) Hillary decides to run, she will bulldoze everybody else out of the way. It’s her “turn” you know.
The party will all line up behind her just like they did for Al Gore.
We don’t get any choice in the matter. She will have all the money, all the supporters all the connections she needs. She will be the 600 lbs. gorilla in the room that sits wherever it wants.
I don’t think she will run BTW. She’d be too old to enjoy her life afterwards. I think 2008 was her one shot.
You’re actually describing 2008 and yet Obama managed to defeat her. Could definitely happen again. Would take a great candidate.
Biden is ready.
I should hope so, after 40 years in high office in DC.
And 2016 would mark, what, his fourth run for the Dem nomination?
I like Joe. Likable fellow and often good for an unintentional laugh. Good family man, good on most issues. But he won’t beat Hillary if she runs. If she doesn’t he will be the frontrunner and I can’t see Cuomo beating him
Surely the issue is how soon more progressive Dems can control congress, not just the Presidency. And even 60 votes in the senate isn’t enough if some of them don’t want to vote for a progressive agenda – as their keenness to hold on to the filibuster now shows.
To win congress Dems now have to win key purple state Governorships and houses so they can first overturn the gerrymander. There are any number of ways demographic change can be prevented from leading to political change. Corporatism may result in a continuing dominance of “moderate” Dems. SCOTUS members may not retire or be replaced by progressives.
Sometimes political change doesn’t happen slowly in response to demographic or economic changes: sometimes it happens very suddenly a bit like a dam bursting. Sometimes ethnic minorities who currently vote Dem become more conservative and start voting more GOP. There is no inevitability about how these changes may play out.
As long as the GOP is the party of Southern white resentment minorities are going to vote for Democrats.
The only way Dems can screw it up is by becoming ever more corporatist and attacking their base. In that case the base stays home.
Chances of Latinos voting GOP is about the same as Southern rural angry white men (Tea Party)voting for a Democrat for President!
Try believing this: “Tea Party members could become more liberal and start voting for progressives. There is no inevitability about how these changes may play out.”
Not going to happen? Neither is a significant shift of minority votes to the rural white racist party.
Are you saying that the President is not up to the job?
Is sequester anxiety getting to you?
When does the President’s 2014 budget come out? I don’t think it’s out yet and that is interesting because it is later than usual.
I keep being amazed that everyone is still fixated on Presidential politics when that is not where the struggle is right now. The struggle is in the states and unless Democrats fix that the idea of “killing the modern GOP” is just idle fantasy. And as long as the Democratic establishment keeps slapping down the folks they depend on for the leg work and sucking at the teat of the corporations, progressives are still in a mell of a hess.
What happens to the President’s 2014 budget will tell us whether Congress has been housebroken. Government by continuing resolution in 2014 means the same old gridlock. And in that event gonorrhea might outpoll Congress.
The year 2016 is too far away to worry about right now, especially if the Russian permafrost is about to melt.
The fact that the focus is on Hillary this early tells me that that the establishment Dems don’t think they have a deep bench.
Pretty much right on point. Koch brothers are now opening a new astroturf lobbying and bribery non-profit that will focus on influencing STATE and local governments.
IF conservatives can’t compete nationally, they can put their giant hordes of money to work corrupting state and local government.
Ummm … they’ve already been doing that. Ever hear of Wisconsin? Michigan? Ohio?
Joe is going to run, IMHO. I’m a big fan of his. He will be old, granted. But he is battle-tested, and he is of the happy warrior tribe.
Biden-Hickenlooper 2016
Two white guys on the ticket? Won’t happen. I could see Biden – Klobuchar. Biden – Gillibrand. Biden – Patrick. But, we won’t see Biden – Hickenlooper.
Hickenlooper? Are you serious? You want a corporate tool?
I just like the name.
I’ll admit I wasn’t a fan of the Big Dog back in the day, and the thought of Hillary’s 08 team anywhere near a WH run gives me the hives. That said, I do think she’s up to the job, and would gladly vote for her over ANY NeoConfederate.
lost in 2008 and that she has learned from the experience. The Hillary of 2008 wasn’t ready to be president. She couldn’t make the tough decisions. She had a hard time separating politics from doing the right thing. And she had a real problem with lies. There needs to be a real discussion about her repeated and frankly psychotic telling of her being under enemy fire in Bosnia, when in reality she was greeted by children holding flowers.
I saw both Clintons as political opportunists. But as such, hopefully they’ve learned the future is not with the DLC. Bill gave a great speech at the Convention. Imagine him stumping for Hillary. Would be fun to watch.
I still don’t trust them. Would look for a better candidate in the primary season. But I would absolutely support Hillary in the general election, and even campaign for her. There are times when hatchets must be buried, Mark Penn’s and Lanny Davis’s of the world be damned.
She’ll get my vote in the general election, not the primary. And if she gets the nod, I’ll be volunteering/donating down ticket instead. I think she is going to be a pretty crappy president and it will be decades before we’ll get another female president after the mess she’ll make. But, the media and the Clinton loyalists in the party sure seem determined to hand her the nomination on a platter already.
On a positive note, after her first term we’ll never have to listen to the arguments that she’ll be a better president than Obama.
The Clintons represent a time for me when i was driven to vote for Nader. I’d prefer to go forward, not backward. I can see it now:
An attempt to appeal to “real americans” by sponsoring a new version of the “V Chip” and holding hearings on videogame violence.
Even more welfare reform!
Half hearted support for Progressivism/ Liberalism in general!
Triangulation!!
Undue reverence for conservatism!
Not that Obama’s perfect, but I enjoy voting for someone who supports/respects me. I’m not going to be marginalized again. Why would we go back? Liberalism is gaining more power than it’s had in years! We don’t need a Clinton at this point, we need a Huey Long (minus the assholery and association with anti semites of course) We need to push the envelope.
Triangulate deez! I’m not going back and i will not support, in any form, someone who wants to return to that time!
I think it’s obvious that RACISM is propping up the GOP
It’s not said often enough
Barack Obama put a stake through the heart of the Southern Strategy.
Willard won 61% of the WHITE VOTE
and Barack Obama still stomped his ass.
without racism, the GOP doesn’t have shyt
PS-still not voting for HIllary in the primary
You asked the other day why people keep reading your columns. I thought a lot about the answer. You’re a good writer, and one of the clearest political thinkers I know. You’re a generous person (you refer to your McCain column as the most “vicious” you’d ever written, when it was only a recitation of fact), but not sentimental. You’re obviously intelligent, and you clearly think hard about what you write. All of those things are true, but others had said them as well, and I saw no need to repeat them.
All of those reasons apply, but this is the real one:
“But I also know that progressive outcomes are better correlated with raw power than ideological purity.”
Ideological purity is a fine thing, and happy are those who can afford it. I care about outcomes.
Sec Clinton has her downsides, but she gets shit done. Something tells me she’ll be less likely to kowtow to the opposition this time around.
Can you point to even one instance of Hillary getting shit done? Because looking through her entire political career and her time as First Lady, I can’t find one major accomplishment completed by her. The myth of Hillary says she gets shit done but that has no relation to her actual career.
One could have said that about Obama before he became President as well.
No, they could not. Like him or not, Obama had 3 serious pieces of legislation passed while in the US Senate for 4 years and significant accomplishments while in the IL Senate. Hillary has 0 pieces of legislation passed while in the US Senate for 8 years and nothing of note before her US Senate term and doesn’t have a signature accomplishment while at State.
sure they could. How many people do you know that can even name one piece of legislation Obama was responsible for? It’s not a question of me liking the President, the man had only been on the national stage for 3 years when he ran for President.
This is a good question. I can’t, off the top of my head, name any major piece of legislation she’s solely responsible for pushing through the Senate. Point taken.
Here’s a different reason: she can take the heat. I remember her efforts during the first Clinton administration on behalf of universal health care. I remember what what done to, and said about, her and her family. Under that kind of assault, I would have picked up a shotgun and put some Republican hair on the wall. She did not. She knuckled down, re-focused, and got herself elected to the Senate. She started the fight that put us on the road to universal health care, and she took the hits for that like a champ. The ACA is a dog’s breakfast of corporate back-scratching & naked profiteering, but it also means a lot of people get to see a doctor without wrecking themselves financially. In time, I believe, it will lead to single payer. Her name might not be on it, but you’d better believe she paid sweat and tears to make it possible.
That her Iraq War vote was naked political calculation, with disastrous results, I won’t even try to deny.
Her & her husband’s corporate connections are as troubling to me as they are to you. Feel free to howl about the influence of money in politics; I’ll go to the rally and howl with you. But again, if the choice is between baby steps towards a goal, or throwing up my hands and declaring the world just too ugly for my beautiful eyes, I’ll take the baby steps.
Also, too: I like Tough Chicks. Whatever else you can say about the lady, she’s as tough as a fuckin’ nail, and I suspect you’ll be grateful for that toughness in the years ahead.
The media seems to be congealing around a “dying Republican party” narrative, as though faced with some electoral hurdles the party will simply go quietly into the night. I tell you plainly you haven’t seen them start to fight yet, and if you expect them to stick to political weapons, you are deluding yourself, IMO.
Like I said, I care about outcomes.
If you care about outcomes, I don’t see how you could back Hillary. Sure she talks a big game, but she has fallen apart over and over again. She had every advantage during the 2008 primary but couldn’t get it done. She torpedoed health care during Bill’s term. Just because she didn’t have a nervous breakdown during the attacks on her, isn’t enough reason to back her for president. She didn’t put us on the path to universal health care. Her debacle in 1993 set us back a decade. Obama and the Democrats in Congress set us on the path to universal healthcare. A road began back in the 1930s.
She has some great PR people and a huge cult of personality that will turn out for her, but I don’t see much that shows me she will be a successful president. She doesn’t have 1/2 the skillset that her husband has and he was a mediocre president.
“every advantage” in 2008? Are you forgetting how the MSM, starting roughly in Oct 2007, began doubting and criticizing her while they gave Obama a free pass throughout? And how the liberal blogosphere was predominantly for Obama or Edwards, and not Hillary?
As for healthcare in 1993, prominent Dems in Congress showed they weren’t quite ready for substantive reform — as in Sen Moynihan’s unhelpful attitude towards the Clinton proposal.
There was also the massive Harry and Louise media campaign by the Right and establishment medical forces to derail the bill — a PR campaign not remotely matched by anything the admin or Dems put out. And no liberal blogosphere to help the Clintons back then — not much organized on the left to speak of, as I recall.
As for 2016 she’ll have a far easier road to the nom — is there any potential opponent even close to being the attractive major primary adversary that Obama was in 2008? But she would need to ditch Penn — not sure he would even be in the running for another round of mismanaging her presidential campaign.
Can you point to even one instance of Hillary getting shit done?
Normalized relations and democratic reform in Burma.
Formal U.S. policy to support and strengthen NGOs and human rights organizations benefiting women and girls worldwide. That’s on Hillary.
Certainly on paper you make Hillary seem pretty compelling. And if there weren’t any of the very tangible baggage she totes around with her, I’d be on board with your speculation. Her baggage is as formidable as she is, though. Mark Penn, McAuliffe and company, the specter of having Bill Clinton that close to the reins of power, Hillary’s poor judgment when it comes to running a campaign, all the hatred from the Right, the dynasty, the mountains of opposition research already in existence, her hawkish ways (she supported arming the Syrian rebels), etc.–honestly any candidate with a list even half as long as one I could put together would never be considered electable.
Looking at the intangibles–she has very little appeal to youth, AA females are already signaling on social media their distaste for supporting her, the country just may have had its fill of having a `first ___ President’ right now. Didn’t we just see in Massachusetts how people feel about a female who thinks she’s entitled to an office? People don’t like coronations. If Joe Biden runs, too, then who gets the single most key endorsement of the President? Does he even endorse if they are both in the race? Both a Clinton and a Bush trying to get the nomination could harm both of them. Then there is the damage that gets done at the grassroots level. My Facebook friends are already lining up to either support or destroy a Hillary candidacy. That kind of divisiveness is very counter-productive to the sense of winning that the Democrats are beginning to embrace.
The real problem is how many people were willing to vote for the highly flawed Romney last November. No amount of stupid things he did dissuaded 60 million people from voting for him. The 4 point margin the President managed to win by last year required enormous amounts of grassroots support–much of which came from the AA community. We ignore what AA women want at our own peril in 2015. They were the backbone of the campaign early and consistently. They don’t appear to be in any mood to forgive Hillary right now and are threatening to sit on the sidelines in 2016.
Hillary deciding to run will prove to me at least that she is completely tone deaf to the mood of the Democratic electorate. My casual observation is that Hillary is enthralled with her own hype right now. I think she is surrounded by people who adore her who are willing to shield her from how large segments of the grassroots community are opposed to her candidacy. Their willingness to shield her stems from their own unwillingness to acknowledge that Hillary isn’t universally loved by about 7/8ths of the voting public. The strong desire for a female President completely obscures this reality. We can’t even talk to Hillary supporters about her weaknesses right now. There is almost a cult-like worship of her that creates an atmosphere of intolerance of dissent–modeled by the (possible) candidate herself, I might add. Hillary supporters simply will not look at her negatives with anything resembling an open mind. I’ve already seen on social media accusations of misogyny from her supporters to anyone who dares to bring up those negatives.
This whole thing seems very strange to me given that there really do exist other potential candidates that broad swaths of the Democratic grassroots could get behind if given the opportunity. Joe Biden is one. It took me a bit to warm up to O’Malley, but the more I learn about him, the more I think he could win. And I’ve seen a lot of evidence in the past year that both men are more appealing to the AA community than Hillary.
Do suspect that Hillary is literally tone deaf. As would the Democratic Party be in 2016 if we’re forced to choose between two senior citizens for the nomination. Other than Reagan — old people don’t fare well at the top of the ticket in Presidential general elections. In part because the campaign is physically and psychologically grueling. While Mitt didn’t fall off a stage like Dole, he walked and talked like an old man. That also handicapped the incumbent 68 year old GHWB in 1992.
Romney didn’t fall off the stage, but 60 million people would have still voted for him if he had.
45-47% of voters in Presidential general elections would vote for Hitler in a two person race. It’s the three-plus percentage of voters that decide elections that prefer not to go with senior citizens for POTUS.
Schweitzer from Montana has, from my distant view, some appeal. Down to earth with a good sense of humor. Whether his success in a red state translates nationally I don’t know. Not sure if he holds the coalition together either.
Party Unity My–oh.
…Oh. Love it.
I think Hillary is headed to the Supreme court myself, and the secretary of State of Texas is blowing a whole lot of smoke. The question you have to ask yourself is why do Republicans want Hillary to run so much?
And I’ll just remind all of the Clinton haters that it’s been a generation since the man’s first inauguration, and both the social and political landscape has changed a great deal. Clinton was an accidental President elected in the midst of a conservative ascendency. The next President will have the advantage of having the social and political will at their backs, something Bill Clinton never had.
She’s too old for the Supreme Court and there are much better candidates than her for it. I’d prefer she retire and start a charity focusing on women’s rights around the world. I think we’ve had enough of the Clintons in our government already.
Hillary has long been a public advocate, not a book grind in the backroom poring over tax codes..
Scotus seems like a bad fit.
Unless somehow the CJ position should open up in the next few years.
Even then, though, I might prefer Obama go with someone a bit younger.
Her age and competency are irrelevant. She’s going there because she is likely the only candidate the President can get through the senate, and they will fillibuster her at their own peril, which means they won’t.
I opposed Hillary in 2008 because I felt betrayed by her Iraq vote and subsequent defense of it. At the time, I thought she was simply being politically calculating and cowardly (like most other Democrats with a national profile, including John Kerry and Joe Biden), and while I don’t think she could have stopped the Iraq War, I think that a Hillary Clinton that was as bold and principled as her fans see her, one who stepped into the Democratic leadership vacuum after Gore’s defeat-by-hanging-chad and after 9/11 and clearly spoke out against the war, as other non-liberal Democrats were doing, could have changed the dynamics and results of the 2004 election. She never really apologized for her support of the Iraq War, and that, more than anything else, (deservedly, IMHO) cost her the 2008 primary.
Since then, I’ve come to question that assessment. I still think she was very politically calculating (calculations which ended up being politically disastrous for her), but it’s also now clear to me that her instincts are simply genuinely hawkish. I want to support Hillary (I like her generally and think she has done good work), but I really think her foreign policy instincts are poor and misguided. She was fine while Obama is calling the shots, but if she’s the one making the big decisions…I don’t have a lot of faith there. I find the armchair psychological analysis of Hillary’s hawkishness stupid and offensive. Who cares why Hillary finds neo-conservative foreign policy enticing, it’s enough that she does. That’s why I still don’t want her to be President.
If Hillary runs in 2016, she will not be meaningfully challenged. Obama had an opening because there was widespread dissatisfaction with Hillary over the Iraq War; there will be no similar opening in 2016. If she wins the Democratic nomination, she will definitely get my vote in the general election (I don’t think there’s a Republican left breathing who could make me even curious about voting for a Republican candidate), but I simply hope she chooses retirement.
Regarding the Clinton crew:
Ugh. I live in Virginia and I will hold my breath and vote for Terry McAuliffe over “America’s Craziest Attorney General”, but for the love a Pete, it’s depressing that this seems to be the best the Virginia Democratic Party can produce. And Mark Penn? The complete mess that was the Clinton campaign was reason #3 that we have President O. and not President C. right now (#1 being Iraq, #2 being the shockingly powerful Obama candidacy and campaign). If Hillary doesn’t fulfill my wishes and take a well-earned retirement, please God, at least make her take new and better advisers!!
A woman with the positives that Hillary has with the general public is going to be passed over for a male coporo-Dem, which is the only type I see on the horizon, including Biden of Delaware, for god’s sake.
Her coat-tails would be scary, I think. Talk about an out of whack probable voter screen.
Traditionally, VP’s have a hard time winning that third election. Voters are fickle. The next Republican candidate will not be as exposed as Romney was. They will shorten the debates and find ways to nudge, nudge, wink, wink the Teapartiers to shut them up.
I want a sure thing, thank you very much. Or as close as possible. We are lost if we don’t get real serious about climate. I think a lot of the oppo-ammo will be seen as just more poison from Republicans for a Clinton. Folks are catching on.
Hillary lost in 2008 to a black man because he positioned himself as less of a war-hawk and less of a corporate Dem. Plus he gave better speeches. Unless one accepts the claim Ferraro made that Democratic primary voters are more sexist than racist, maybe those voters didn’t want a third Clinton term. We got that anyway and now a fourth one, but not because it was what we wanted. Why would we want a fifth one in 2016?
For claiming to be so smart, it’s odd that Democrats can’t seem to think more creatively than Clinton or Biden in 2016.
As regards sexism, women are not in the same place they were 5 years ago. Planned Parenthood has been on the chopping block in red states and access to legal abortion has been slut-shamed in state leges. Folks will have had a year or so of Obamacare, won’t want to endanger it, and will certainly trust her on that.
She was very, very strong with Hispanics four years ago.
And the BEST part. If she runs and beats them badly, they will have another excuse why they lost. And it will take another decade for them to modernize.
If you have a good progressive without clay feet, please tell. Even Dr. Dean sounds corporate on some issues.
Besides, the score stands at 44-0.
Zero. In the USA.
I won’t vote a male under any circumstances for POTUS in 2016. Time’s up.