I thought George Zimmerman would be acquitted, and he was. I had hopes before the trial started, but they were all but dashed as I watched the evidentiary part of the case. Then, after closing arguments, my hopes were revived a bit but not enough for me to change my prediction. I didn’t predict that Zimmerman would walk because I thought the jury would be unsympathetic to Trayvon Martin and his family. I thought he would walk because his lawyers had such a small task to accomplish. All they had to do is to create a reasonable doubt that a man who had been beaten bloody had a reasonable belief that he might suffer grave bodily harm. How do you disprove such a thing when you have no witnesses?
All the other facets of the case might have been interesting; they might have been key to determining what justice might call for, but they had nothing to do with Zimmerman’s state of mind when he pulled the trigger. And that’s all the law contemplates.
In the end, under the law, Zimmerman could have hated black people and he could have wrongfully profiled Trayvon Martin, and he could have chased him down and tried to physically detain him, and he could have done it all with malice in his heart. But if there was any doubt about whether or not it was his voice crying out for help on the 911 call, then the law called for him to be acquitted, because that voice was in fear for its life.
I believe that the voice crying out for help was Trayvon’s. But it’s just a belief. The prosecution didn’t prove it. They didn’t really prove anything other than that Zimmerman told a lot of lies and made a lot of embellishments. And they asked the jury to determine that a truly innocent man would not have felt the need to lie and embellish. Zimmerman’s lies were the proof of a guilty-conscience, or at least a consciousness that his ass might land in jail for a very long time. And that was a pretty compelling argument. I think it was compelling enough to convict George Zimmerman. But it was a close call. Just because he was lying and embellishing didn’t mean that he wasn’t the one crying out in terror. And if he was the one crying out in terror, then he had a reasonable fear of grave bodily harm. You can’t listen to that tape and argue any differently.
I think Zimmerman executed Trayvon Martin in cold blood. I think he just got away with murder. I think he should have been held accountable for what he did. But, to my dismay, the prosecution did not prove my theory of the case and the defense did several things to cast doubt on my theory. In the end, the defense didn’t have to do much to win because that’s the way the law is written.
A couple of other things. I don’t think the Stand Your Ground law played any part in the trial. I think it is a shame that there was not even one black juror. I think both sides of this fight are going to draw some extreme conclusions that aren’t warranted.
No, this is not going to mean that it is open season on black folks in Florida. No one is going to want to go through what George Zimmerman just went through on the assumption that they will be acquitted in the end. And, no, this doesn’t mean that George Zimmerman was justified all along and that he did nothing wrong. He’s still a lying asshole with innocent blood on his hands, as everyone saw clearly during the prosecution’s closing arguments.
My last question is rhetorical. If there are no riots will those who predicted them apologize?
Trayvon Martin was
stalked
hunted
murdered
for the crime of WALKING WHILE BLACK.
beginning, middle and end of the story.
Trayvon Martin is 2013’s Emmitt Till
complete with the All-WHITE JURY
That’s how it looks to me. At worst, his crime was being able to put up a fight.
Truth.
Boo is missing the obvious. If Zimmerman had shot a white kid in the same situation, Zimmerman would be doing life.
We will march on Washington, until Holder files Civil rights violation against George Zimmerman. We will not allow rap/ist, molesters, muggers, stalk our children at night, and claim self defense, when they try to defend themselves.
.
Experts: All-women and mostly white jury was a ‘slam dunk’ for George Zimmerman
See also latest comment by The Voice In The Wilderness.
I know you said your last question was rhetorical, but of course the answer is no.
What a wonderful way for a Floridian jury to vindicate the general idiocy of America.
@worldwatcher—Trayvon was put on trial for his lynching and found guilty.
“Trayvon was put on trial for his lynching and found guilty.”
Depressing truth in a nutshell.
@keithboykin 2m
Mark O’Mara: Things would have been different if George Zimmerman was black because he never would have been charged with a crime.
That’s awful. And so wrong.
if Trayvon Martin had been a Black 25 year old Man
who had killed an un-armed 17 year old WHITE CHILD
he might not have even made it to the Police Station…
in all likelihood, he would have been shot in the back ‘ resisting arrest’.
America is a nation of guns. Conceal Carry and Stand Your Ground laws have removed all pretense of justice. The dead will have no presumption of innocence.
Imagine what this will do to the remnants of the American village.
Yes, it is “open season.” I linked here the other day a story from NPR about rising homicide rates in states with these laws. Keep in mind, there is a culture being formed here; this case, along with the ALEC laws and the NRA and the nihilistic strain of racist conservatism at all adding up, and creating an atmosphere in which stupid, bigoted people feel empowered to use their guns.
Absolutely it’s open season. Has been for a while. People don’t shoot other people because they’re carefully weighing the consequences. All the average gun-carrying bigot knows is that Zimmerman got off, and he got all sorts of other bigots to send him money.
Laws against murder have no meaning when there are enough loopholes to drive a truck through.
The “culture” you refer to has a name and has precedents. It is formed in more-or-less democratic countries in which a large segment of the wealthy class needs to get a large minority of the voting population to support their programs.
Fascism, of course.
BooMan for all your characterizations of the South, you do not understand at all if you think that there is not going to be more stalk-and-kill situations involving whites killing unarmed blacks in Florida.
That is like thinking there will be no more police killing of unarmed black youth.
Impunity is impunity even if you have to raise a defense. And no doubt Zimmerman had a lot of bigots to help him in his defense. And he gets back his gun. So Zimmerman could well carry out a similar attack.
Especially with the defense lawyer high-fiving and spiking the ball.
The Sanford police screwed the prosecution from the beginning because it was one of their buddies. The prosecution relies on the evidence and chain of custody that the Sanford police performed.
And the judge biased the forensics toward the defense.
I assume you mean more stalk-and-kill incidents as a direct result of this case.
Because, obviously, I would never argue that future incidents will not occur.
The verdict sends a message, but you need to come to terms with the fact that, regardless of the facts, the verdict here wasn’t obviously wrong. Pretty much every legal expert predicted an acquittal, and not because they assumed that the jury would be a bunch of assholes. The case was difficult for a variety of factors, including the poor initial investigation. I’m disappointed in the result, but I can’t fault the jurors. Acquittal was a reasonable response under the law. I think a conviction would have been reasonable, too.
I don’t think there are going to be a bunch of people who think that the next thing they want to do with their lives is become the next George Zimmerman. Look at his life. Now he gets to defend himself in a civil case where he will have to testify.
So, yes, I think there is an overreaction on both sides. This is a tragic outcome, but most of the tragedy pre-dated the trial. The trial itself could have been prosecuted better, but I can’t find too much fault with the prosecutors. They gave it their best effort.
Wrong Boo. It means that black children’s lives are insigifanct, to be taken lightly, when you fear that a white guy can gun down your brown skin son, and lie about it.
What needs to happen is for the president I voted for, take the mantle, as George Herbert Walker Bush during the Rodney King trial, and state that the stalking and shooting of innocent black males, will not be tolerated, and prosecuted by federal law.
.
Informed Comment – Whites and African-Americans in America by the numbers
ABC report onInterracial murder.
White men in the south that take this verdict as a license to kill young black men with the expectation of impunity under state law will still be subject to federal hate crime prosecution.
Seems black vs white and white vs black killings have remained pretty much constant while other killings have dropped dramatically. That’s not a terrific metric, frankly.
Disturbing. Suggests that racial tensions haven’t declined. However, there could be factors other than race of victim and perpetrator that are in play and therefore, would be cautious in drawing any conclusion from these aggregate numbers.
LOL, sure, where is the federal hate crime case here? If not in this case, when?
Those stats are quite old, by the way. They don’t address the rise of the gun culture in the last 5 years, or the rise of the ALEC laws, which have already been demonstrated to increase homicides. In addition, many of the stats quoted in that article involve very small data sets.
When? James Byrd, Jr. for one.
I’m not commenting on this case because I think Zimmerman isn’t a racist or is a nice guy. Only that the facts as we’ve learned them don’t indicate that he gunned down Martin because he was black.
2009 isn’t old for compiled crime statistics.
Do you have a citation for: ” the rise of the ALEC laws, which have already been demonstrated to increase homicides.”
Not true. By any statistical measure those are very large data sets.
You are wrong that this cannot be construed as “open season” against blacks, or really anyone who is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The key is to have no witnesses.
Between SCOTUS’ decision on the Voting Rights and now this, we are going backwards.
I don’t believe the Tea Party is being misinterpreted when they say they “want their country back”.
Trayvon Martin’s father tweets: “Even though I am broken-hearted my faith is unshattered I WILL ALWAYS LOVE MY BABY TRAY” http://bet.us/1bbjZTt
So, so sad and moving. You can feel the incredible anguish in a single tweet.
God those poor parents. I can’t even imagine.
Herr Zimmerman might ought to seek asylum with the German consulate – that, or hole up with Mr. Snowden…
Really dislike criminal trials by public mobs. It either leads to gross injustice such as the Scottsboro Boys and Central Park jogger cases or public disgust or anger that someone they convicted from a remote location unjustly got off. (Like Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo via video.)
None of us will ever know what happened between Martin and Zimmerman in those few minutes when they were engaged in a physical confrontation with each other. One that neither intended and both could have avoided. A tragic outcome. But as long as we remain a gun culture, such tragedies will remain common.
This was a para-police impunity case, not just a gun culture case.
If it’s that clear, then the DOJ can indict Zimmerman. Just as what happened in the Rodney King case.
We will never know what truly happened between Martin and Zimmerman because the only eyewitness lied.
I still contend that if you want to claim self-defense, you should be required to defend yourself in court; not hide behind the best attorneys that your character witnesses can buy.
You may not like the rights of defendants in this country, but carving out exceptions more to your liking would lead to more and not less injustice.
I think this case only promotes a gun culture. It’s increasingly the Wild West out there. Politics goes out the window when walking down the street is an issue of survival.
I disagree that Zimmerman didn’t intend it. I think he fantasized about it a lot in his Walter Mitty mind.
which way the PermaGov continues to lean in terms of race?
I thought not.
AG
trying to have it every which way.
Don’t think we haven’t noticed.
I remain open to the evidence at hand, Booman. If the fix is always in…and I believe this to be the case in the U.S. up through and including all “really important” situations…then this verdict (This verdict so far…other “verdicts” of many different kinds may show up regarding Zimmerman’s ultimate fate. Bet on it.) speaks to the PermaGov’s ultimate decision that whitieness still holds final sway in this country. As I have said over and over here regarding this case, it is not any longer a “justice” case. Justice has been parsed and parsing is the real law of the land. Just as it has always been.
The old black wisdom had it right.
Finely parsed in this case, the whitish guy got away with it and the brownish guy died.
Is this news? Ask the Diallo family.
No. Only to those who think that a brownish presidential figurehead means anything other than more parsing, When does the parsing stop? I’ll believe it when the U.S. invades or otherwise punishes a mostly whitish country for supposed transgressions. This hasn’t happened since WWII. Not really. Partially Muslim countries don’t count. Islam be brownish, don’tcha know.
What’s next?
If I were Zimmerman, I’d look for asylum just as Snowden is supposedly doing. He’s a marked man now, and not just from the nutcase brigades. Bet on that as well.
Watch.
AG
How boring.
What did I do?
I made a prediction that was bound to displease my audience because I thought it was the unfortunate truth.
What did you do?
You made a prediction that the jurors would split the baby, not of their own free will, but because more powerful forces behind the scenes would guide them to that decision.
I was right, you were wrong.
So, do you give me any credit or admit any error?
No.
You insist that you were vindicated because the fix is always in.
You should be embarrassed.
The game’s not over yet, Booman. Not by a long shot. This particular fix may not have worked. Try, try again. Watch. I will say this…I no longer believe in the possibility of “justice” in this system. I have lost all faith in the idea. Whatever happens, the fixers always have another shot.
AG
I would NEVER let you gamble with my money.
Nor would I ask. I don’t gamble much, actually. I do or say very little until I am sure that I am right, and I am quite sure that there is more to come for George Zimmerman. Much more.
There are of course those who agree with me.
From Mother Jones:
My own bet?
Sure.
I think that if there is a real public groundswell of anger about this verdict…not necessarily expressed violently, but perhaps that will happen as well…the Feds will use the media to feverishly announce a hottest-thing-ever “Federal investigation” of the situation. (Just short of a Blue Ribbon Panel” don’tcha know. They only do that for important shit, like covering up truly high-level malfeasance.) If the anger dissipates…and most of the mainstream media have been damping down the outrage level as fast as they can do so (George Zimmerman Is Probably Going to Walk, and That’s Not a Bad Thing)…nothing much will come of that investigation and it will fade back into the category of “old news.” If not…especially if the anger threatens the youth/minorities electoral strategy of the DemRat Party…the Dem-controlled Feds will come down fast, hard and heavy on Zimmerman with the accompaniment of much media ballyhoo. Gotta win that next (
s)election, after all. Gotta keep the marks happy. And of course the (dis)loyal opposition will continue to fan their own flames of outrage at the outrage of others.Where does “justice” come into all of this, Booman? It is now all fix. Will Martin’s parents try to profit further from their son’s death? Maybe. More than likely, I would guess. This is a shameless system, and ya gotta do what ya gotta do, right?
Disgusting up and down the line.
In this fabulously wealthy country, it is disgusting that a system has been constructed that funnels vast amounts of money to the few and keeps the working classes in a state of economic panic that too often manifests itself as violence against other victims of the same system.
Disgusting, up and down the line.
Disgusting.
In a previous comment, you complain that I do not “give [you] any credit” for being right about the verdict nor do I admit any error. I got your credit, right here. You are correct about that. I don’t give you any credit nor admit any error in this because I do not give a flying fuck who guesses right or wrong about the details. Shit happens. This is not a parlor guessing game, Booman; it’s life or death on a vast level. You support people who are complicit in the gigantic scam that we laughingly call “the Federal Government” because…well, I guess it’s because they are not as bad as their opposition. They are more efficient thieves and liars. Kinder, gentler murderers. I do not support them. End of story.
Hustle on. There are talking points to be studied.
Disgusting.
AG
P.S.
Uhhhh…this is the same FBI that was a functioning cog in the racist machine that eventually killed Martin Luther King Jr., right?
Oh.
They’re better now?
Oh.
Nevermind.
I wonder what Rachel Jentel would have to say about the FBI.
“Just another buncha creepy crackers,” more than likely. She’d be perfectly correct, and it wouldn’t be a racist statement, either. Work for the cracker machine no matter what race you are? You a cracker too. Bet on it.
P.P.S. “NAACP president Benjamin Jealous!!!???”
Who’s writing this script, anyway? Charles Dickens? The Republicans actually have a major functionary named Prince Rebus?
Oh.
Reince Priebus.
Nevermind.
Vendettas. That’s what’s coming. A lot of black guys have guns, and a lot of them have pretty strong attitudes.
Zimmerman is a marked man. He better disappear.
AG where do you live? I guess you really don’t have any real live experience with down home southern racism do you? It’s not just about white in black any more. That old canard might have been true 40 years ago but it’s not how it goes now. At least not in Florida, where I have lived since 1987.
There are now Hispanics thrown in the mix, and they are a crazy mix of nationalities who all hate each other at least in some part due to their negro heritage.
I live in the heart of New York City, Bugboy, and as a jazz and latin musician I have lived most of my life as a white man who has been largely accepted and trusted in predominantly non-white cultures. I am welll aware of the racism endemic to this system. Bet on it. I played in the deep south with integrated jazz groups as early as the late ’60s; I played in the Atlantic City, Roxbury and Harlem ghettoes when “integration” was just another name for de facto segregation (as if anything has really changed now) and I have traveled the entire world playing mostly for down-home, low-income, mixed-race audiences on every continent of this good green earth. Most of of the people who really taught me how to play were members of various minorities, and I owe them all my life.
Why do you ask?
AG
Because in case you haven’t noticed, GZ is Hispanic, and I am pretty sure he identifies as one. Now perhaps Hispanic racism against blacks is just an extension of what you are referring to as this incremental tendency toward whiteness that racism strives for, or maybe not.
But from my own observations living and working in South Florida, it’s a lot messier than that. Much of it is because of successive waves of immigrants from various Hispanic countries, and they all resent each other for taking jobs from one another.
Yeah. And the Irish resented the Italians and the Italians resented the Jews, etc., etc. etc. during the great immigration waves of the 1800s and 1900s. So nu? The Great American Dream is founded upon inequality and the resultant struggle to get out from underneath the pile of oppressed workers. It has been African American’ people’s…and to a slightly lesser extent Hispanic people’s…bitter fate to carry a marker on their skins that allows them to be conveniently identified and thus pretty much permanently buried at the bottom of that pile.
This whole Zimmerman/Martin case is not really about “race,” Bugboy. It is only about race as a marker for economic oppression. If the U.S. was truly an equal opportunity unemployer then the real motives in this case would become crystal clear. An upwardly striving middle class/working class fool shot a member of a class that has been more economically persecuted than has been his class because some members of that poorer class have been stealing stuff from his own class. If the same thing happened in pretty much all-white area like rural Maine…for instance if a visually identifiable member of a depressed class like out-or work fishermen or loggers was shot by a middle class-ish “neighborhood watch” type under exactly the same set of circumstances, “race” would not even be part of the equation. Nor would it be part of the coverage. Since “race” is a big selling point for our “Hottest-Thing-Ever!!!” media, this one got blown up past its real significance into a media circus. Again…if it happened in that Maine-like area, “justice” would have been much more likely to have been served. A disagreement between two white people escalated into a shooting. Who was to blame? Let a jury decide, and either way it went the situation would rapidly sink back into the morass of “news” in which most Americans swim. But it didn’t, and here we jolly well are, aren’t we. Blah-blah-blahing each other to death.
AG
As the saying goes, history doesn’t repeat itself, it rhymes.
But I disagree about your assessment of the so called “Great American Dream”, if there ever was one. All of human history is made up of taking stuff from others and calling it yours. The Kings claimed divine right to do so. And ever since the Magna Carta, the Elite have been trying to get back to that lovely place.
The lying son-of-a-bitch is as guilty as OJ. No doubt in my mind: he did just get away with murder.
The crucial “if there was any doubt about whether or not it was [Zimmerman’s] voice crying out for help on the 911 call” seems to be at issue. Yet the prosecution evidence on this was never presented. And there seems to be some interesting nuances at stake. Readers can listen for themselves but it seems problematic that any forensic interpretation of the calls was excluded on the claim by defence expert witnesses that the methodology was “not as widely accepted at this time.”
That was the last time that Trayvon’s own testimony could have ever been presented to the jury. In the Kennedy assassination hearings we had expert testimony from audio analysis of the echoes in Dealey plaza from a thirty-year old Dictaphone recording accidentally made of a motorcycle cop’s open microphone. And in 2013 no audio forensics were admissible? Consider me puzzled.
Number one, if you are assessing the jury’s decision, they didn’t get to hear that evidence, so they can’t be faulted for not considering it.
Number two, the FBI expert testified that there was only a few seconds of tape that was clear and not adulterated by the people talking on the 911 call. On top of that, you can’t reproduce that kind of screaming for comparison, so even if there was more useful tape, it’s doubtful they could be that conclusive about it.
I’ve listened to the tape and it sounds like a boy screaming, not a man. But what I am supposed to do? Make myself the scientist?
I believe it was Trayvon screaming. Do I know it was beyond a reasonable doubt? I don’t.
That alone is enough to justify reasonable doubt, although I believe that other facts, mostly Zimmerman’s lying, give me enough to overcome my doubts.
The decision to rule the prosecution’s audio forensics inadmissible. Why didn’t they get an alternative analysis into evidence? If I were I juror I might wonder, “Hey, where’s the audio forensics? Why do I have to figure this out for myself?”
The same applies to your, “But what I am supposed to do?” I’m assuming that DNA analysis, fingerprints, time-lines and so forth were presented to the jury, as they should be. Seems puzzling, however. Little decisions like the inadmissibility of the audio evidence such as the judge’s in this case can tip the scales heavily; as you pointed out the jury can’t consider evidence never presented.
Well, that was probably a key reason that the prosecution lost, but that doesn’t mean their evidence was any good. Anyone can find an “expert” witness to say whatever they want them to say.
One thing I learned in this case is that the FBI just abandoned their old voice identification procedures in favor of a better one. Their old system will no longer be admissible in court, even though it was for probably decades.
You can kick Zimmerman in the crotch until he screams, record the noise, and compare to the tape. Since this is science, results need to be reproducible, so you may need to do several trials.
I absolutely expected to find you here defending this jury. Very transparent.
If you’re blaming the jury, you should at least make sure that others share the blame, include the Sanford Police Department and the incredibly difficult standard in Florida for proving either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. The injustice in this case was mostly baked in the cake before the trial even began.
The injustice in this case was mostly baked in the cake before the trial even began.
Nailed it right here. The entire sad exhibition in one sentence.
Humanity died a little yesterday, where we are heading is an ugly place my friend.
from TOD:
sherijr
July 13, 2013 at 11:47 pm
I do not believe that had Trayvon been the one to survive Zimmerman’s attack- that Trayvon would be set free. I believe that the so called `Stand Your Ground’ law would suddenly be unusable. This was a racist verdict, a racist trial, all to allow one more racist to be set free. If folks hadn’t raised a serious ruckus- there wouldn’t have even been a trial… but I believe without a doubt had Trayvon been the one to survive- he would have been arrested immediately by the Sanford PD and tried- and convicted. Even thought Stand Your Ground would have truly applied to him
…………………………………………
uh huh
Trayvon will be avenged. If Zimmerman was smart, which he ain’t, he would have plastic surgery, and move to Texas. Some banger is gonna come after his butt.
Because this verdict means that vendettas are coming. Eye for an eye, all private.
unless Zimmerman has just been wearing a fat suit the past year and is actually as skinny was he was the night he assaulted TM.
This is nonsense. Trayvon Martin was not part of a gang. Nice suburban family. They are going to pray it away. And file a civil suit.
That’s his family, their lawyers and activists. And they are trying to discourage such actions the best they can.
However, they don’t control everyone and everything. Zimmerman needs to realize that and leave town.
And I believe Zimmerman has the seeds of his own undoing within him.
One thing I’m heartened to know that some white people are standing with us in our grief.
What to do? I donated $25 to the NAACP tonight. I also plan to become a member as well tonight as well. Like Marley, “Get Up, Stand UP, Stand Up for your rights”
There are a LOT of white people standing with you. Because Zimmerman didn’t just kill a black kid. He killed an American kid. And moreover, he killed a kid. We want justice.
I didn’t say family. There are white people who hate all blacks. There are blacks who hate all whites and hispanics. They have guns, and there are some who are pissed.
Your thesis will be tested by all the folks who look a little like George Zimmerman.
Blacks who hate whites know what happens if they act out in conspicuous ways. It’s an unequal battle, and they understand that.
The world needs to fear more George Zimmermans than more black revenge.
I just heard an interview yesterday with M. Timothy Koontz, a West Virginian criminal defense attorney, on the state of the Zimmerman trial (obviously before the verdict was reached).
A really interesting point he made was how the gender makeup of a jury affects verdicts. His contention is that with an all-male jury, chances are that they would have had a conviction after relatively short deliberation, and that an all-female jury would be much less likely to convict.
He spent quite a while elaborating on that point from experience; I’m probably butchering it in my retelling here, so I hope it doesn’t come across in any way other than to suggest how many intangible or unquantifiable factors influence the final outcome of a jury trial.
Along those lines, I’m wondering if the jury reviewing the manslaughter option decided against it because of the mandatory minimum 25 years discussed on the other thread – i.e. not the evidence for manslaughter but the consequences of that verdict. just a thought
eclecticbrotha @eclecticbrotha 1h
The week in review: a woman with tampons and a black kid with Skittles are both more dangerous than a white man with a gun
Huge peaceful protest march in Chicago led by the network of folks who have been protesting Rahm Emanuel’s closure of clinics and schools and by Occupy Chicago. CPD is hands off so far.
Occupy Philly and other folks have a rally in front of Philadelphia City Hall, scheduled for 17 hours. Not clear how large it is yet.
Both in protest of the verdict.
Tweet labeled from Chicago:
Profile says:
They are forced into plea bargains and never see a jury. Cannot afford a defense lawyer worth anything.
That’s where all the energy and passion on this case should be directed to. “Equal justice” for all those young black men that are railroaded into the US prison-industrial-complex every year.
A march has begun in DC.
Re stand your ground: I think it did play a part, even though the defense elected not to file a motion for a pre-trial hearing and get a ruling on that issue before the criminal trial. I think stand your ground is part of the mentality that says it’s perfectly fine for a loser like George Zimmerman to walk around with a gun tucked into his pants, a bullet chambered, and stalk and profile innocent teenagers.
And if you heard Attorney O’Mara talk about seeking immunity for Zimmerman from civil liability — I believe he’s talking about stand your ground there. I seem to recall when I read the statute when this all got started that, although a pre-trial hearing in the criminal case may be the more typical way to invoke that law, a ruling may also be sought separately. The defense may have decided it was too risky to seek a ruling pre-criminal trial, but now that he’s been acquitted they can seek a ruling and try to immunize that SOB against civil liability.
This song is on my mind right now: Billie Holiday – Strange Fruit
I should be gong to sleep right now, but I just can’t seem to go to sleep just now. I literally have been sitting here lying in bed trying to go to sleep, but my mind is too full of …. to settle down I guess.
I finally had to call my sister to tell her to hug my nephew for me and my cousin to tell her to give my 17 year old godson a hug for me too. When this trial started and when the murder became bigger news, we joked that my nephew and my godson should throw out any hoodies they owned, even though we don’t live in FL. Now though, the joke has turned serious.
Anyway. I’m just go back to bed and try to sleep and not stare blindly at the world eventually my mind will settle. I already have a hard time getting to sleep on normal days, but when I have something on my mind, I have an even harder time.
Ah…good night BT peeps.
.
Listening to State Attorney Angela Corey
GZ followed TM
TM had all rights to be there
GZ had right to bear arms, got himself in a position where he used it
If TM was on top of him, straddled his body with his legs, no way GZ could have drawn his gun from right rear side.
The cries for help stopped the moment the shot falls is clear indication it was TM’s voice
The injury of GZ was very minor, this is what children experience daily while playing, cry a little and continue play
there was no life threatening situation for GZ to use his gun
I watch none of the trial, but did see defense lawyer use a doll to portray TM sitting on top and bash GZ’s head to the pavement. Lawyer should have done demo with a doll weighing 200 lbs.
So called expert telling story closeness pistol to “hoodie” and body was 2-4″ difference, i call BS on this to prove “loose hanging” hoodie meant TM was on top
Odd is letter by defense lawyer O’Mara thanking Sanford Police Dep’t for their profesionalism in support of defense case. Almost indicates the Sanford Police was also on trial and by acquittal would be proven right in their lousy detective work in the first 4 weeks. This to detriment of the prosecution team who would liked to have been part of the investigation from day zero in this case.
This was only the second murder trial the prosecutor lost. He failed to proof the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. After the verdict, lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said, “Am I disappointed? Yes because I thought he was guilty.”
Yes, I think GZ had profiled TM, did follow him contrary to police instruction, knew he had a gun for “his own safety” and was ready to use it. TM made the wrong choice to confront GZ and not to proceed to the house of his father 100 yards away.
State Attorney Angela Corey fires information technology director who raised concerns in Trayvon Martin case
It upset me to see you write that. For all we know, Trayvon was afraid of what would happen if he turned his back or ran away. Sadly, in this country, Trayvon might have been shot or killed simply for being a black boy who was running in a hoodie.
My nephew gets to run around in his hoodie, but he’s white and his hoodie says Benet Academy, so that’s completely different. How fucked up is that.
Trayvon is dead because he came out of his mother’s womb with a different amount of pigment in his skin. That makes about as much sense to me as hating a set of people because their hair is curly.
.
You have that backwards, it being Oakland. The headline should read Oakland Police skirmish with protesters. It seems the OPD has gotten very proficient at smashing windows to divert attention from protests.
I thought the jury was five white women and one black woman. Was the black woman a standby juror?
“He had it coming” – that’s the message sent to Trayvon’s family tonight and my heart breaks for it.
And a pox on all the legal team’s houses. The prosecutor had a smile/smirk during the press conference that made me want to throw things at my tv. The defense attorney, Don West, was a giant asshole as he demonstrated repeatedly during the trial.
Nothing was worth George Zimmerman killing a 17 year old black kid over, not even if he was intending on breaking into someone’s home.
That is, unless you think killing black people is something of a worthwhile undertaking.
Maybe THAT is the conversation we ought to be having, rather that whether George Zimmerman got away with murder?
And I’ve had a black teenager break into my home. The first thing he went for was the goodies in the fridge. He claimed he was homeless to the police, when in fact he was a runaway. Tried to be the tough guy for 48 hours until they figured out he really had a family. He’s still violating his parole as he is simply out of control being raised by a single parent.
This is not a race problem, it’s a class problem.
George Zimmerman has feared for his life and lived in an undisclosed location for over a year now. It’s a good bet that he’ll live a life, at best, looking over his shoulder. Unfortunately, he still has his carry permit and he just may be even more inclined to use it than he was that night he saw Trayvon. The violence he brought to us may not be over, will Zimmerman ever walk in the shadows of a neighborhood again?
The civil suit will come. Financially he may have online donations to help offset his already huge expenses but he is a man who will be dogged by what he owes for the rest of his life.
The only good result may be that Zimmerman will live his entire future life in a state of fear. That would be a fitting outcome.
Agreed yet it bothers me that a man who brought such poor judgment on top of racial profiling to Trayvon Martin’s last night will turn around and shoot yet again. There’s less stopping him now than there was the night he trailed Trayvon.
Civil trial
Oakland PD and LAPD riot. Other than that all quiet with protests against verdict in Trayvon Martin case.
Even CPD controlled their base instincts.
This case was borked from the beginning, the outcome pre-ordained. Trayvon Martin was tried, convicted, and executed for the crime of walking while black. End of story. The rest is footnotes.
The Sanford police didn’t even try to make a case against Zimmerman. They had no intention of charging him, much less putting together a credible case for prosecution. As others have said, there wouldn’t have been a trial if it hadn’t been for the public outcry. When the state finally took the case they didn’t have much to work with. At the trial their prosecution team phoned in a performance designed to fail. All the defense had to do was establish reasonable doubt. Not much of a curb to step over.
you speak the truth
that’s how I see it.
Andrew Cohen said it better than I could.
I see this whole thing – from the moment ZImmerman spotted Trayvon all the way to the verdict – as a complete failure of our society and our legal system. There was no justice here.
Time for the Department of Justice to step in.
Saw this: “Years ago Trayvon would’ve been killed for whistling at a white woman. Today we don’t even need reasons.”
The black man, and many cases the black woman, who hasn’t found themselves in a situation where the people around them are in fear because of their presence, is not known to me. I had that eye-opening experience as a child younger than Trayvon.
What this verdict says then, is that being black in the presence of others who would take that as a threat, gives them the legal right to self defense, and can use deadly force against that threat. And if they have a gun, well…
To think the fact that Zimmerman got off on technicalities and the way FL law was written is supposed to give people some way to deal with it, regardless of the codification of the target this puts on the backs of those of us with dark skin, is a tall order, especially when you have children who fit the profile same as Martin; the same profile that spurred Zimmerman to act as he did. Because there is no getting around the basic facts of the case, that Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue Martin, got into a fight with him, and killed him.
So what do we take away from this? If a man with a gun pursues you, you submit to him? What if he is a criminal or serial killer? Do you suppress the natural urge towards self-preservation and not fight back, and risk the results?
If this verdict is supposedly more than just GZ getting off on technicalities, then there has to be something for the rest of us going forward? What are you supposed to do when approached by a stranger with a gun? And if you had been returning from a routine trip to the store, and a man approached you out of nowhere in a threatening and confrontational manner, and is not a police officer, what would you do?
This is the problem I have with this case. And those who are counseling to essentially, get over it, don’t address the obvious question of what does this mean going forward to those who may find themselves in a similar situation. I don’t know what Martin could have done differently, other than to run even faster, if that was even possible.
While I would not say this means “open season” on blacks in FL, I do think it speaks volumes about how the law views black life. The decision making in terms of dealing with the law in this case may not be about race, but clearly, race was the reason for why Martin was stalked and killed. And this is the reason why the defense, masterfully, made sure race was in the minds of the damn near all white jury before they deliberated, (see Jeantel, Martin, etc)
As for the rhetorical question, in light of the issues here I don’t see how that is the most relevant thing on people’s minds, particularly black folk who ARE rightfully concerned about the implications of the outcome of this case.
Oh, one other thing and I’m done, as I’m already getting tired of the useless “intellectual” jibber-jabber attempting to rationalize this case.
Black people may march, but there won’t be any riots, and that’s why an apology from the people who have cheered GZ on from the beginning is useless, not that they will.
The family will likely file a civil suit,in which case the burden of proof of GZ’s culpability will be lower.
I’m not interested in a “civil rights” lawsuit as I believe that will also be a waste of time, and will only give more people, directly or indirectly on the side of GZ, more reason to continue on with useless chatter and keep the racial balls in the air.
I for one will not spend another dime in FL, nor will I do business with any business based in FL. Disney World? To hell with it. And I think anyone who sees this verdict for the travesty it is needs to vote with their dollars in letting the state know how they feel. Is it right to target a business that just so happens to be in a state that sanctions this sort of thing? Maybe not directly, no. But being honest, we know business has essentially captured government, and nothing happens in government without the blessing of business in some form or fashion.
Begging Holder to do something he’s pretty much already confirmed will not likely be done is useless. Hitting them where they will notice, is.
Yep, hitting Florida where it hurts, i.e. tourism, will be the most effective path, long term, to real justice for minorities. But Americans, of all colors, have very short memories.