It’s a good idea to talk to an actual hostage negotiator to get some advice on how to end the government shutdown and avoid a default on our debt. But, when you know almost beyond any shadow of a doubt that the kidnappers will not shoot the hostage, that ought to inform the questions you ask the hostage negotiator.
Also, it’s one thing to win the release of a hostage, but a bigger concern is the discouragement of future kidnapping adventures. But that subject didn’t come up, either. As a result, John Avlon’s interview with Christopher Voss is a major disappointment. Mr. Voss suggests that Obama show more respect for his opponents’ motives and that he be more open to face-saving gestures. I suppose that he should consider the possibility that Boehner might actually shoot the hostage if he is disrespected too much. But there is really no reason to give an inch when total victory is all but assured. Really, the whole point here is to completely delegitimize these tactics so that they won’t be used again and again and again for the remainder of the president’s second term in office.
And how do we know, almost beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they won’t shoot the hostage? We’re counting on the clout of the business lobby?
We don’t. Which is why a willingness (or at least, a credibly perceived willingness) to let the hostage “die” is so important for the Democrats.
I’m completely sick of Stephanopolous’ little game where he (successfully) gets to pretend that he hasn’t been a direct participant in and witness to negotiations and relations between the Executive and Congress.
Today, when Treasury Secretary Lew said that it is unprecedented to have the minority party trying to demand massive partisan policy victories under the threat of failing to raise the debt ceiling, Little George said flatly, “But that isn’t true!” He regurgitated an undigested GOP talking point; some garbage about major policy changes associated with 27 different debt ceiling raises.
Lew should have responded by saying “Get real, George. The President that you worked for was HATED by the GOP; they impeached him, for God’s sake! Despite that hate, they never held the debt ceiling hostage during Clinton’s 8 years. What was the biggest policy demand they made when you and your buddies worked for Bill?” The real answer would be some relatively trivial, bipartisan change, not something so purely partisan and extreme as the crazy shit they’re talking about today.
No face-saving measures beyond forcing the president to do what happened last time where he “unilaterally” raised the debt ceiling. Make them pay. I’m not so sure Boehner would accept a face-saving measure even if offered.
“Pour encourager les autres” requires NO face-saving.
Instead, what’s needed is to rub those Teahadist faces in shit. Hard.
This is a good time to reread Barbara Tuchman’s The Guns of August with the view that what the Tea Party thinks it has is the Schlieffen Plan, a guaranteed strategic winner.
The kidnapper might not intend to shoot the hostage but the logic of actions might drag in that direction.
Well, Barbara Tuchman’s “The March of Folly” is actually a bit more on-point.
If she was still alive, she’d have to add a couple more chapters: on Iraq, and on the current hostage crisis.
But that won’t fuel the desires of the horserace, ‘both sides do it’, Green Lanternism of the Media Village, so why would you expect a member of the Village to act against their own interests. What are they, Kansans?
Actually the “both sides do it” meme has been rather muted of late. I think that’s a sign of how egregious the Repblican tactics are. Even the MSM knows that only one side pulls this kind of crap.
Well, I frittered away some of my mental health on the Sunday talk shows today, putting your premise to the test. If there ever was a case where One Side Is Doing It Much More Than The Other One, it’s this. Unfortunately, the hosts were all pushing GOP framings, the most important being “Why won’t Obama negotiate?”. A few of the hosts were exhibiting a combination of impatience and fear, and they were openly upset that neither side was offering unilateral surrender.
Boehner and the other leaders claimed the votes are not there in the House for a clean, full funding CR. No one pushed GOP leaders with this simple assertion: “It has been estimated that if the Senate’s clean CR which funds the full government were brought to the House floor for a vote, it would get up to 300 votes. If you’re intent on ending the shutdown and raising the debt ceiling, why not allow a vote and see what happens?”
The Administration made what I view as a mistake by putting Treasury Secretary Jack Lew on every show. The two themes moved by all the hosts, and their responses:
The hosts also put on GOP hatchet men after Lew, effectively allowing the scumbags to rebut Lew.
I thought it was interesting that Lew decided he had a silver bullet in his appearances today: he quoted President Reagan in 1983, with Ronnie talking about how disastrous it would be to fail to raise the debt ceiling. The problems:
Never … never … do I watch those stupid Sunday talk shows. But you might want to take a gander at this choice collection of excerpts from editorial pages around the country.
Ignore the stupid lead cartoon, the rest of it is quite different.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/10/02/the-view-from-the-op-ed-pages-gop-takes-a-
beating/
That’s a very superficial look at it. There is a great sense of loss over:
The Civil War
The civil rights movment
Women’s suffrage and its continuing consequences
Gay marriage equality
The black man holding the White House for two terms
Loss of the WWII social contract on manhood (as deconstructed in Susan Faludi’s Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man)
The self-defeating addiction of aggressive hypermasculism that was the them of Breaking Bad turned into Breaking Gov (as Jon Stewart’s staff put it)
Anxiety over the demographic loss facing white privilege and power
Failure of House leadership to be anything but an all-day alcoholic
But the idea that it’s like a prison break or the inmates taking over the asylum — the hold the place but aren’t very organized is on point. But the part about offering concessions only happens in real prison sieges up until everyone is back in their cells. And often the concessions are meaningless. “I won’t mint a $100 trillion coin” would be a concession. But still allows the minting of a coin of some other denomination.
But a vote in Congress really is not like a prison siege, is it? There are no cells that Congress can be put back into with state power.
An interesting book. I don’t think I ever saw Amazon reviews so evenly split between five stars and one star. It must be one of those books one either loves or hates.
Might be a good time to review the Nixon Shock event and figure out what legal authority Nixon used to take the US from a gold standard to a federal reserve note standard. The federal reserve note provides the fig leaf of the Federal Reserve controlling inflation.
But if the Treasury directly issues payments of the debt as it comes due, the folks receiving that debt must accept it as payment just like any other check from the Treasury.
The only economic issue is how to ensure that whatever institution does not become profligate in its expanding the money supply. Paying the debt directly from the Treasury is exactly like quantitative easing but without the Federal Reserve acting as middleman.
To avoid impeachment over this, the President and Secretary of Treasury would have to make sure that the powers-that-be are very, very happy about this way to dodge the bullet.
It still doesn’t deal with the continuing resolutions, which pretty much implements the Tea Party wet dreams until the reality affect their constituents-who-matter enough.
Peter Ludlow, New York Times Opinionator: The Banality of Systemic Evil
That’s the enemy. That moral code. Libertarians see it in government and ignore it in corporations and churches. Occupy Wall Street was pointing to that in its dismissal of organization and leaders. That code is a profound assertion of that which is anti-democratic in US society.
Jackall was interviewing mid-level managers. Upper-level managers are in the look-up-push-down position of being on both sides of this code. And having to operate without disabling cognitive dissonance.
Tis why “democratic populism” seems so foreign to the country that promised it in its founding document.
Face-saving gesture: no trials for the Republican Traitors
Summary executions it is, then!
Can we also discuss the role of snipers in hostage negotiations?
The FBI’s dirty little secret.
Excellent point. Analogies are fragile rhetorical constructs, aren’t they.
I think the analogy still holds – without the threat of sniper fire the hostage-takers are less-inclined to yield to the hostage negotiator. This is almost exactly what we’re seeing with the GOP – they have no fear of repercussions, there are no political snipers angling for a clean kill shot who have the tools and skill to carry it out. I believe the question that needs to be asked is what would that look like politically and how do we make it happen?
“I believe the question that needs to be asked is what would that look like politically”
It would look like the NSA releasing incriminating evidence of GOP corruption and illicit sexytime romps.
“…and how do we make it happen?”
By letting the NSA know that their furloughed people are getting ZERO back pay as long as the Teahadist caucus survives.
Wonder what Voss’ recommendation for Lincoln would have been?
‘You have to respect them for bombing Fort Sumter, they only have the best interests of the country at heart. Remember, if you disrespect them they are certain to take actions leading to the deaths of over 600,000 people in a Civil War and then after losing anyway, lead an institutionalized insurrection of racist terror for the next 100 years. OTOH, if you respect their basic humanity and their right to own other human beings everyone can find a win-win here.’
Granted, Obama is a poor negotiator and that weakness has inevitably led to overconfidence in his adversaries. See, Kennedy-Khrushchev in Vienna leading to the Cuban missile crisis.
Because Obama dithered on health care with Max Baucus, because he didn’t take a harder line on the Bush tax cut expiration, because he let the first debt limit fight escalate, the Republicans think they can roll him forever.
Because Obama now sees the imperative to stand up, his opponents are sincerely perplexed by the change in behavior.
On top of being fucking crazy, the Republicans are also frustrated in the sense that Democrats are simply supposed to let themselves be bullied with only a few whimpers and it’s as though the Democrats have simply lost their script.
The Republican game plan and Democrat behavior has always been:
Because Obama “dithered on health care with Max Baucus” everyone sees the current situation as hostage taking not legitimate demands. But ok, it’s pretty much worked in Obama’s favor that everyone underestimates him. Please proceed
zizi2 @zizii2
Who BENEFITS from #GOPDefault? Who benefits from mass-scale FEAR, global financial chaos? Follow the money
4:24 PM – 6 Oct 2013
zizi2 @zizii2
#GOPLemmings do you know where ur #KochPuppetmasters hve MOVED their assets to? Cantor shorts US creditworthiness. What’s in it for You?
2:58 PM – 6 Oct 2013
zizi2 @zizii2
Now we know when Kochs flew Cantor, Ryan, Boehner, Cruz, et al for the billionaires’ retreat this year, they were MANDATED to DESTROY USA
4:06 PM – 6 Oct 2013
zizi2 @zizii2
PHANTOM @RepPeteKing “moderates” gang is a choreographed dogbone-toss intended to string out #Democrats & Media. #GOPshutdown
4:20 PM – 6 Oct 2013
http://ecobserver.blogspot.com/2009/10/koch-industries-fails-to-disclose.html
It is an attempted coup and that’s who’s behind it. Thanks for posting this. Any comments about what teahadists “believe” is missing the point. It’s their overlords that are calling the shots. Also, Obama must know this. He doesn’t just have the luck of the Irish, he’s incredibly smart. It’s not a matter of Obama figuring out that giving in to their demands didn’t work, it’s about Obama proceeding in a way that makes it clear to the msm and other citizens that these are hostage takers. every day I appreciate the Obama presidency and all the work we did to elect him
Such a disappointment! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mokoolapps.foodpuzzles