It appears that this Duck Dynasty controversy has really touched a nerve with the people at Fox News, who consider it “a purge of southern white Christian patriotic culture” to suspend a man for arguing that blacks were happy before they got civil rights and comparing homosexuality to bestiality.
What’s sad is that these people are actually asking us to associate pro-Jim Crow and anti-gay thoughts with “southern white patriotic culture.”
Then they’ll turn on a dime and say that they aren’t racist and don’t “hate” gays.
Look, if you want to define yourself that way then don’t complain when we describe you that way. You have your ideas about what it means to be American and I have mine. I think your ideas are the farthest thing from “patriotic” and I’d like to be generous enough to the Christian religion to insist that your ideas aren’t “Christian,” either.
And then there’s the free speech issue, where conservatives seem to think that employers have to tolerate any kind of speech or it’s a violation of the First Amendment. The First Amendment prevents the government from suppressing what you say, but it doesn’t mean you can tell your boss to “fuck off” and keep your job. Likewise, you can’t anger your boss’s customers by saying stuff that they find offensive and think that the Bill of Rights protects you and gives you the right to be on television.
Here’s what is going on. Back in 1963, George Wallace could say “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever” in his inaugural speech and get wild applause. Ten years later, that was unacceptable. No one suppressed anyone’s speech, but some previously acceptable speech became non-respectable. Politicians learned that they would not be rewarded for being openly racist anymore and so they stopped being openly racist. Something similar is going on now with respect to gays and lesbians. You can still say rude, nasty, and hateful things about gays and lesbians, but there is no reward in it. Fewer and fewer people laugh at your jokes, and it turns off more voters than it attracts.
In both cases, something key to the nature of southern culture was stamped out, not by the law but by simple shame. To be sure, the law was important, too, but not for the speech part of it. What’s terrifying the folks at Fox News is not government oppression, but the realization that another big element of their culture is no longer respectable in polite society.
Perhaps Obama will not only boycott the Sochi games but also Jindall’s Louisiana.
With Landreiu up for re-election, he doesn’t dare boycott LA for espousing homophobic views. Not that he makes appearances in LA — probably as inhospitable to him as Dallas was to JFK. I think those folks have been breathing in too many hydrocarbons for too long.
Well, I live in Baton Rouge, but I’m from New Orleans and Obama and Michelle have visited NOLA more than once. Baton Rouge…not so much.
We are all familiar with the ignorance of the gunsucks who change “the right of the people to kba shall not be infringed” while omitting the first clause.
The Freedom of Speech is similarly misunderstood. There is simply not any understanding that it is 1) government suppression and 2) consequences of speech are not part of the Amendment. If you wish, you may state “Karl Marx was right. We need a communist revolution in the US.” The government will not suppress your speech, but your boss may have his/her own opinions. There is no clause in the 1st Amendment about “freedom from consequences of speech”.
It’s also worth noting that A&E has First Amendment rights too, not just Phil Robertson. If they couldn’t suspend him for saying things they find offensive, that would be an abridgment of their freedom of expression.
Well, this forced me to find out what the hell Duck Dynasty is. Sort of like Honey-Boo-Boo; something I’d rather not have known about. But seriously, did anyone have any expectation that racist, sexist, homophobic and ignorant stuff wouldn’t be spewed by guys?
What I find odd is this idea that because what this guy said was “his personal opinion”, that it can’t be labeled bigoted or racist. Someone please explain that thought process to me. My Facebook timeline is peppered with people regurgitating this viewpoint. I can only surmise, from those Twitter samples which MMFA gave, that the source of this talking point is the conservative media.
Now, I really look forward to the coming Christmas week. I know this will be roundly discussed at the family get-togethers over the next few days. I will have to be subjected to this thing, ad nauseum, on several occasions. Ho Ho Ho, and Merry f@#$ing Christmas, everyone.
Oh, Lord. First they promote opinion as equivalent to facts and now they justify bigotry as acceptable personal opinion when it’s neither. It’s learned hatred of the other. When do they start defending the use of the “N” word as “personal opinion?”
I have heard this “freedom of speech=personal opinion with no consequences” conflation a lot in recent years. Especially with the rise of the Tea Party and its ragtag collection of John Birch nostalgists, George Wallace bigots and Falwell-ian religious righties. They have waved this “political correctness” flag on almost every occasion when one of their own says something that is just utterly and morally indefensible. And the resultant doubling down that they do, when what they say blows back on them, just exacerbates their problems.
And through it all, they are constantly currying their mane of victim-hood and outwardly pining for those days when what they had to say was considered acceptable in the culture which they seek to resuscitate with their “taking back” of the country. In their view, it’s not their fault that their opinions are looked on as culturally unacceptable. It’s due to the continuing degradation of their rightful and inherited place in this country that is being pushed and by all those “others”, and all their fellow travelers.
I hope you’re alone in that and my family doesn’t join in.
I hope you’re spared, seabe. Chances are good that I won’t be. I had to respond earlier to cousin’s post on Facebook about this. I just couldn’t let it pass, it was so ignorant. And it was from a “Christian’s perspective”, using her “word of god” to make the case. Her supporting this dude and what he said using a faith perspective is just stupid on her part. Christmas Eve is going to be a blast, now!!!
Unfortunately, I have heard the use of similar statements being deemed a matter of being/not being politically correct rather than under the heading of racism, where it belongs. For some, the precivil rights era never ended.
THIS
Oh my!!!
Oh my my my!
Yes, that’s what I’m talking about!!
Here’s to the day when being a moran is, in and of itself, no longer respectable in polite society.
Don’t hold your breath waiting!
um… it actually IS southern white patriotic culture.
all who do the “oh but not ALL of us!” whine are simply getaway car drivers choosing to yell at the critics, who are correct, rather than the bigots, who are not.
I guess Martin Bashir doesn’t have “free speech”?
Hmmm, wondering how the Dixie Chicks feel about all this RWNJ/Conservative defense of free speech all of a sudden.
Not Ready To Make Nice – Dixie Chicks.
http://youtu.be/pojL_35QlSI
Really, this is all just a sliding scale from the initial mistake, which is our implicit condoning of the whole “Dixie” culture, from the Confederate flag on down.
As a nation, we really should view the Confederate flag the way that Germans view Nazi symbols: with absolute contempt. I’m not saying we should make anything illegal — this is America — but flying that flag should be a shameful act. The whole concept that we’re supposed to “respect” the “identity” of the Old South just needs to go away.
Someone might answer that this is how we approach it…and it is to some extent. But we make allowances for “cultural pride” and “historical tradition” that allow all this stuff to backdoor into the discussion. I think it all just needs to stop. We need to be a country where nobody, anywhere feels comfortable flying a Confederate flag. It’s a cultural shift that we seem afraid to commit to.
Your participation in successfully removing a legally recognized government by armed revolt makes you a patriot.
Your participation in failing to remove a legally recognized government by armed revolt makes you a traitor.
There is no middle ground when military action causes death to both sides.
There is a middle ground because we’re supposed to take the morality and ideology into account rather than just acknowledging the success or failure of the regimes’ dominance games.
I understand that we’re all very jaded and can wryly note that “history is written by the the winners” and “Treason never fosters; what’s the reason?/For if it fosters none dare call it treason” and all that, but the implicit comparison of the 13 colonies during the Revolutionary War and the Confederacy during the Civil War as being “equivalent” (except for the score at the end of the game) is just too reductive and amoral; it disregards so many essential components of the equation, including the role of representative Democracy and the meaning of the Enlightenment philosophy cribbed into our constitution.
I can see the point, obviously; especially in the 21st century, it’s not difficult to muster the supreme world-weary cynicism necessary to conclude that the “only difference” between the post-revolutionary United States and the antebellum South is “who won,” but there’s nothing to be gained by looking at it that way and a great deal to be lost.
What’s terrifying FoxNews is the realization that another big segment of their audience is no longer tolerated in polite society and might disappear forever.
You have the right to freedom of speech, but not to a megaphone. Phil Robertson can go rant on the corner of Hollywood and Vine.
There are a lot of white Southerner that he does not represent who have thought through those homey cotton-field experiences he relates and have understood clearly what the reality of that world was. And how white folks of good will had to hold their tongues and watch the openness of their behavior because of the likes of people like him.
And the “Southernization” of America that carried Reagan to power and holds the GOP today is not limited to the South. It exists in suburban Minneapolis, on Long Island, in nortwestern Iowa, in Washington state, and even in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. And so does a growing trend toward re-establishing Jim Crow, starting with the voting booth.
Yes, shame them back into the woodwork. Let them wear the opprobrium of the unrepentant bigots that they are. And take away the polite bigotry of Fox News and George Will and the other folks who wink, nod, and encourage these bigots as well. Roll back the neo-Southernization of America that Reagan legitimized.
Duck Dynasty is what is wrong with this country.
Why the fuck is there Duck Dynasty clothing and merchandise at fucking Kroger?
Dear God, people who go out and spend real money on that trash should be rounded up and transported to FEMA camps to await deportation to the middle of the fucking ocean.
The free speech thing taken to the extreme doesn’t seem to be working all that well for people like Fred Phelps and his moronic followers. I witnessed a military funeral procession last fall protected by a sizable contingent of the Patriot Guard and I wouldn’t want to get into a confrontation with those folks.
Krauthammer puts it in a way anyone should be able to understand.
He’s talking about the Redskins name, and that last point applies less to this situation but the country is changing so that it soon WILL apply. Now I wish we could do the same with race, but I welcome any progress anywhere.
“but the realization that another big element of their culture is no longer respectable in polite society.”
You understand the contradiction there. This is news because Duck Dynasty is a huge show. Along with all the other celebrity redneck shows like Honey Boo Boo, Moonshiners, Hollywood Hillbillies and Honey Boo Boo.
This audience sees nothing much wrong with what he said or intended to say. And there are a lot of them. About 35% of the nation at least I’d say.
And they watch Fox News.
And they have their own version of “polite” that they think they follow.
Phil Robertson’s America
The Duck Dynasty star’s warped vision of civil-rights history feeds his warped view of today’s gay-rights struggle.
I’ve yet to take in an episode of Duck Dynasty. I hear it’s a fine show, anchored by a humorous and good-natured family of proud Americans. I try to be good natured, and I have been told that I can appreciate a good joke. I am also a proud American. With so much in common, it seems natural that I take some interest in the views of my brethren on the history of the only country any of us can ever truly call home:
That is Robertson responding to a reporter’s question about life in Louisiana, before the civil-rights movement. I am sure Robertson did see plenty of black people who were singing and happy. And I am also sure that very few black people approached Robertson to complain about “doggone white people.”
One should not be lulled into thinking that the murder of Freddie Moore was out of the ordinary in Louisiana. Between 1882 and 1936, only Georgia, Texas and Mississippi saw more black people lynched. For part of that period four of Louisiana’s parishes led the nation for counties with the most lynchings.
That is because governance in Phil Robertson’s Louisiana was premised on terrorism. As late as 1890, the majority of people in Louisiana were black. As late as 1902, they still lived under threat of slavery through debt peonage and the convict-lease system. Virtually all of them were pilfered of their vote and their tax dollars. Plunder and second slavery were enforced by violence, as when the besiegers of Colfax massacred 50 black freedmen with rifles and cannon and tossed their bodies into a river. Even today the Colfax Massacre is honored in Louisiana as the rightful “end of carpetbag misrule.”
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The black people who Phil Robertson knew were warred upon. If they valued their lives, and the lives of their families, the last thing they would have done was voiced a complaint about “white people” to a man like Robertson. Ignorance is no great sin and one can forgive the good-natured white person for not knowing how all that cannibal sausage was truly made. But having been presented with a set of facts, Robertson’s response is to cite “welfare” and “entitlement” as the true culprits.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/phil-robertsons-america/282555/