It’s true that Bill Clinton isn’t the most disciplined political spouse and that he caused problems for Hillary Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign. There are still some lingering bad feelings about it in the African-American community. More than that, though, simply by virtue of being an ex-president, Bill Clinton presents some weird and awkward possibilities. And then we can add the prospect of having for the first time a First Man, rather than a First Lady. There’s nothing normal or routine about any of it.
But Bill Clinton is Hillary’s greatest asset and there is simply no denying it. If we can point out some downsides to their relationship, it all pales in comparison to Bill’s ability to compare his presidency to the two Bushs’ presidencies. His record may be flawed, but it trounces the records of the most recent Republicans presidents. The connections the Clintons have, the experience, and the good will they enjoy with a wide swath of non-Obama voters all add up to a massive advantage over any Democratic alternatives, and certainly over any prospective Republican candidates not named Jeb. And, frankly, Jeb is not only saddled with the records of his father and brother, but also lacks the same kind of cross-over appeal with non-Romney or non-McCain voters.
People will write and write and write about Bill Clinton because he’s interesting and because he’s controversial and because he’s going to be in such an unusual and unprecedented position. But anyone who writes that he’s a liability is just wanking.
And I am not even a fan of the former president. I still resent him for his personal failings, his policy shortcomings, and some of his behavior during the 2008 primaries. But I’m not an idiot. Or a wanker.
Have to agree. If Bill could run again and ran today he’d clean up in a landslide. Except for the wingnuts just about everyone who remembers the 90s remembers them positively, and the narrative that has survived the impeachment era is of a right wing witch hunt. Those of us who criticized him from the left would vote for him again anyway since the alternative would be far worse. And when the topic turned to national security you can be sure Bill would remind people that his administration prevented several attacks in its last years and desperately tried to warn the GWB administration of the danger – only to be ignored – of a 9/11 attack.
So, it’s kinda sad that if Hillary does get in the first woman President will basically have got there on her husband’s coattails. But at this point I won’t squabble – we need more women in positions of power and we need to keep the white house from the crazy party, so all power to her if she gets the nomination.
And therein lies the secret to the ongoing success of of The Big Fix. No administration fulfills the expectations that it trumpeted during its campaign(s) because those expectations were not meant to be fulfilled. They were only meant to convince the media-hypnotized sheeple that things are going to get better. Then the next political sea-change comes along and the media direct the sheeple herds to a new set of promises…promises that are equally false.
Here are the only real “promises” that have lurked at the bottom of the campaign of every successful PermaGov-allied candidate since the JFK coup.
End of story.
Go ahead…hold your nose and vote.
That stink you smell?
It is the rotting carcass of the American Dream.
Bet on it.
AG
You’re probably right, and Clinton’s economic years are remembered with fondness. If Hillary runs, Bill’s gonna have a big megaphone. Every statement he makes will be treated as equal to his wife’s – almost a co-presidency. And his loose cannon tendency has only progressed since 2008, in my opinion. I’ve read several things that were off key, and his first instinct seems to be protecting his legacy. I dread this. And Clinton’s policies will be up for review. Signing on to bank deregulation lurks behind his defense of not prosecuting them recently. This article reminds us of his quiet effort to privatize Social Security:
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/10/401ks_are_retirement_robbery_how_the_koch_brothers_wall_street_and_p
oliticians_conspire_to_drain_social_security/
The prospect of going through all the Clinton drama again is a drag.
Bill Clinton was a disaster. I can’t remember anything good from his time in office except he wasn’t a Republican and that’s a pretty low bar. He gave us DLC and the horrible blue dogs, he was the primary cause of our economic meltdown plus many social policies that did hurt and continue to hurt a lot of people. He was a quite effective Republican president as a Democrat. Is Hillary a continuation of Bill? I hope not. If not, she has to deal with this and it’s a big deal.
You hit the nail on the head. Gotta say I was enthusiastic in the beginning. He was part of my boomer generation – played the sax to boot. But his personal shortcomings were right there too. He is credited with moving the party from its losing ways, but his triangulating policies were, at best, a mixed bag. From what I can tell, Hillary will continue down that path. Ugh.
I don’t know how that will work this time because we’re so much more polarized now, besides, how does one triangulate crazy? There’s a big bubble of support for fighting against the corporate interests and oligarchs who are intent on destroying our democracy or what little is left of it. If Hillary can or is forced to address this issue then I would put Bill in the past and give her a chance. Bill is not an asset but something she will have to overcome.
Don’t forget Nafta.
Ross Perot knew what was up.
From a Bush/Clinton/Perot debate during the 1992 campaign:
He was being quite successful util he unexpectedly pulled out of the race. The reasons for his withdrawal were not specifically mentioned until after Clinton was elected, but PermaGov assets definitely had a hand in it.
From Wikipedia (Emphases mine):
Further…from the NY Times:
The “loony” smear. Sound familiar?
Yup.
There’s that “loony” word again.
Hmmmm….
Remember.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Always and everywhere.
Bet on it.
You still don’t believe in the Big Fix?
Go vegetate in front of your chosen mass media, and…have a nice day.
Station WTFU signing off.
AG
Nick T…
NIce. You must be another dKos native. You argue with your ratings rather than standing up and saying something.
Great to hear from you and your zero.
It feels like the old days back at the pre July 4th massacre dKos ranch.
Atta boy…
AG
Another dKos trick – I’ll give you a four to undo the unfair troll rating. Although I still feel Perot’s drop out reason was loony. Because someone would say his daughter was gay when she wasn’t? Even in ’92 that’s loony.
Thank you for the trick.
I disbelieve that as the sole reason also. But there were other reasons, no doubt. Nasty one’s I’m thinking. He wasn’t crazy about what was going to happen….he was right.
No change from 1992 to today except that now…on plentiful evidence, much of it provided by digital whistleblowers…more and more people are beginning to agree with him.
AG
Do you remember Reagan and Poppy Bush?
Sure, I remember Reagan and Poppy Bush. That’s why when Bill started passing a Republican agenda as triangulation I was so disappointed.
Entirely possible that had Poppy been re-elected by a very slight plurality that NAFTA and the capital gains tax reduction would never have passed and Newt’s revolution would have failed.
I’ll say it again…
Barack Obama spent his first term cleaning up messes that originated in the Clinton Presidency, and I include the financial mess, which began with the repeal of Glass-Stengal.
Just stop with this nonsense that American needs the Clintons back. No they don’t.
You don’t have any proof whatsoever that the populist, progressive economic equality measures that the President talks about all the time will be kept up by the Clintons. None at all. There’s a reason why the likes of Rupert Murdoch is ok with a Hillary Clinton Presidency.
OH yah!!!
It’s totally cleaned up now. right?
Give me a break.
Not that I want to see another member of a PermaGov family in the White House, but Obama? Sorry, rikyrah. He’s just another frontman.
AG
Those are the key words “talks about all the time”. But what he pushes is the Trans-Pacific Partnership and “Grand Bargain”.
an asset for getting elected, I’ll grant you that.
As far as the policies that would be followed afterward and the people who would be appointed to the administration, absolutely a liability.
I think Bill Clinton is the third and least of HRC’s three major assets:
I disagree with #2 strongly. We have a great bench to choose from. Maryland Governor O’Malley, Mass Governor Patrick, Colorado Gov. Hick, etc. all have more accomplishments than Hillary does. They can point to their leadership in getting stuff done. Hillary can talk about how much time she spent in the Senate and as SoS. But, she can’t point to one thing that she led on and succeeded with during that time period.
None of those politicians can hold a candle to HRC in terms of name recognition or funding power. Nor is it certain that all of them want to run for the presidency. O’Malley probably will, but I haven’t seen any signs of or enthusiasm for the other two. I would bet you that 99% of the populace at large would be unable to tell you even which state each of those people governed, if it wasn’t their own state. That isn’t a deep bench – it’s a collection of essentially unknowns.
Presidents are elected personalities and have been for over a century now.
That’s a horrible criteria to use in selecting a nominee for the Democratic Party. As the Clinton WH policies on the most important issues were indistinguishable from that of Reagan/Bush why would any sentient Democrat or liberal want another Clinton? One not even smart enough to figure out that Iraq’s WMD were a propaganda mirage.
Btw — back in 1999-2000, Republicans used the same criteria in their selection processs, and we know how well that turned out for the country and world.
There’s a big difference between analyzing a candidate’s assets as a candidate and analyzing whether that candidate is the most likely one to give you what you want, if elected. In terms of electability, name recognition is hugely important, as is fundraising. That’s simply a matter of empirical review of the data on who wins elections, barring unforeseen circumstances.
Consider Bernie Sanders versus HRC. Which is more electable? HRC, and it isn’t close. Which candidate is more likely to give me what I want, if elected? Bernie, every time.
If you confuse these two basic questions, you are going to spend a lot of time getting meaninglessly morally outraged online at people who are just facing the facts.
“Electible” based on name recognition is why Hillary was elected in 2008. And GHWB in 1992 and Gerald Ford in 1976.
To reduce anything as complex as presidential elections to name recognition is why Democrats nominated the sure loser Kerry in 2004. It also leads to boring, nothingburger campaigns. Message that resonates with 50%+1 trumps a big, old name every time. Even one as bland, undefined and disingenuous as “hope and change” beat Hillary.
Youthfulness and vigor (or even the perception of it) has been a strong predictor of Presidential elections since 1960. (Carter looked older and more worn out than Reagan in 1980, Mondale was too far from vigorous to take out a sitting President, Dukakis looked silly. On this dimension Gore and GWB were as evenly matched as JFK and Nixon. Surprise, surprise that the election results were practically ties.)
He never said electability and name recognition were the only factors. But it’s undeniable that Hillary has more name recognition and is considered more electable. She can screw it up, yes, but she has huge advantages. Quit being stupid.
“To reduce anything as complex as presidential elections to name recognition”
Which, of course, is precisely what I did not do.
neither did Obama at this stage. you forgot Brian Schweitzer.
Schweitzer is hardly likely to win the Democratic nomination. He’s got the wrong ties to the NRA, doesn’t have an amazing record as governor, isn’t enormously charismatic – and has low name recognition and no obvious base of donors. He’s the definition of a lower-tier candidate who might hope to be considered for the VP slot, but probably isn’t obviously enough of an electoral asset to get even that.
Can’t speak to the other two, but Hickenlooper isn’t President material. You haven’t seen him waffling in TV interviews about whatever the topic of the day is – wildfires or the Broncos in the Super Bowl, etc. Maybe he’ll be “Presidential” in the future, but right now he tries too hard to please everyone and ends up sounding like someone who doesn’t stand for anything. Like many Dems he hasn’t learned that not only will he never get the wingnuts to vote for him, he’ll never get the wingnuts not to loathe him and fight hard against him.
In fact, I’m somewhat worried he’ll lose in the election this fall, which could lead to a Scott Walker-like disaster if they get a sliver of a majority in both state houses. On the plus side the GOP primary candidates are a slateload of crazy – I’m hoping that somehow Tancredo gets the nod. The strongest help for Colorado Democrats in recent years has been the nuts the GOP has been nominating for state-wide seats.
Bill Clinton is a big asset?
Oh yes he is.
A big PermaGov/Deep State asset!!!
Bet on it.
AG
“There are still some lingering bad feelings about it in the African-American community.’
Not picking on you in particular BooMan, but I’ve seen this referenced in several places lately, and it really bugs me. I have lingering bad feelings about this, and I’m not African-American.
It reminds me of 2008 when my conservative christian sister said she worried that the “black people would rise up and riot” if the super delegates threw the nomination to Hillary Clinton even though the math showed the voters wanted Obama.
I said “I took 6 weeks off work in late 2007 and early 2008 to work for Obama in Iowa and Colorado and Michigan, I sold my beautiful silk rug to get more money to donate to the campaign, and you think it’s only the BLACK people who will be rioting in the streets?!?”
No one should be forgetting the racist stuff that came out of the Clinton campaign. No one.
Agreed. I was on the fence in 2008 until the Clinton surrogates started in on that racist garbage. It made my mind up right quick. I’m guessing that ploy probably cost them as many votes as it gained.
Biggest asset? Well, maybe from an inside-the-village, follow-the-horse-race perspective.
From an actual experience and governance angle, she can point to her years in the Senate and her time as SoS. The circumstances of her marriage have nearly nothing to do with her qualifications.
Just saying I was a Senator for 8 years and a SoS for 4 years isn’t particularly impressive if she has no accomplishments to show for it. All of the foreign policy accomplishments of the Obama admin where she served as SoS are Obama’s accomplishments, not Hillary’s. Same with any positives out of Bill’s time in office. And in her 8 years in the Senate, all she did was name some post offices. She didn’t lead on one issue. That’s why when she ran in 2008, she took credit for Bill’s work and other Dem Senators work. She had nothing on her own to take credit for.
What accomplishments did Obama have in 2008? “I’m not Bush.” That’s it. It was enough.
It usually is.
The best president we ever had was “I’m not Hoover”… everything else came later, and got polished in retrospect.
Actually – “I’m not Bush” was why a Democrat that could simultaneously walk and chew gum without tripping and not sound like an idiot when speaking was always going to win in 2008. What Obama had going for himself is that he could claim to have opposed the Iraq War and also hint that “I may not be a DLC, Clinton, neo-liberal and may be a real deal Democrat.” Worth taking a chance on and if all we were to get was a dreaded third Clinton term, at least with Obama, we didn’t have to suffer four more years of Bill Clinton in the WH.
With Democrats pining for another Clinton WH and the Republicans pining for another Bush, have to conclude that they’re all nuts and democracy is wasted on them.
In other words, democracy won’t work until we’re all as clear-sighted and perspicacious as Marie2…
No — only as clear sighted as Michael Harrington was. Something we all should work hard at to come close to.
I don’t know if pinning for another Clinton White House is exactly accurate. We want to win the House and Senate and the White House with enough votes in all places to get good legislation passed. The Presidency isn’t good enough as we saw in 2009-2011 when we controlled all levers we got a lot of stuff done, since not so much.
Clinton seems to have the best shot and getting it all for us to have a shot.
He had more than Hillary did. He led on passing 2 major pieces of legislation and 1 minor piece of legislation. Which makes 3 more than Hillary did in her entire 8 years. As IL State Senator, he got videotaping interrogations as part of a Police Interrogation Law that has been considered wildly successful and thought impossible by both the law and order crowd and the ACLU crowd prior to it passing.
Hillary stood near people who led on important issues and racked up nothing on her own outside of failing miserably at health care reform.
I’ll take your word for the videotaping law, but still contend it had nothing to do with his election. I live in Illinois, try to follow politics and even I knew nothing of his involvement in that legislation. To contend that the proverbial man in the street voted for Obama because of it strains credulity. Here in Illinois at least he was “not Bush”, a native son (although he now rejects us and calls Hawaii his home state) and black. Black hurt with some voters, but most of them were going to vote (R) anyway and helped with more voters than it hurt, discounting the ones who wouldn’t vote for a Democrat anyway. Black was very helpful in the primary. Chicago turnout was huge.
It might not be what won him election but I think the point was that he had accomplishments both in the IL Senate and the US Senate where Clinton hasn’t had any anywhere.
Bill is not a liability, that is true. However, there aren’t a whole lot of “non-Obama voters” that will help Hillary in the primaries, and if you’re saying that the Clintons will only utilize their connections (no other Democrat has access to those same connections? Vice President Biden?), “experience, and the good will they enjoy with a wide swath of non-Obama voters” if Hillary is the nominee then that is more than enough reason to make sure that Team Clinton is not the Democratic nominee.
I think the reference to non-Obama voters refers to the general election, not the primary. In the 2008 primary there were only Obama voters and non-Obama voters except for a very slim contingent of Edwards voters and he was gone before Illinois voted. We only had Obama and Clinton as choices although Edwards was on the ballot but he had already dropped out.
In 2016 there will be no Obama voters because he will not be on the ballot. So, if you are referring to 2008, there were many non-Obama voters, almost (but not quite) 50%.
Right, I believe he is referring to general election non-Obama voters. My point is that they didn’t vote in the primaries so they won’t help Hillary. In the general election, if he is saying that the Clintons won’t use their resources to help the Democratic nominee if that nominee isn’t Hillary then that is more than enough reason to oppose her nomination.
They would certainly help in the general. Republicans are riding a tidal wave of voter discontent as LieberDems go down for big business.
If they will use their resources to help the Democratic nominee then those resources are not a differentiator between Hillary and any other potential Democratic nominee – the case for Hillary as the de facto nominee disappears.
This is all so, so pitiful. Bill and Hillary: a complete lack of imagination. They’ll just give us more of the same old bull. Can’t anyone think beyond the past. That Hillary Clinton claims the preisdency is proof that the US is in terminal decline. She has nothing to offer in the present situation. She is nothing more than a 0.1%-bot (that’s her class). Without Monica Lewinsky she’d be nowhere today. You know, every setback is an opportunity. How did she ever get to be Senator from NY state? I wonder. And I mean not because people voted for her, the carpetbagger. The whole situation would be amusing if it weren’t so depressing and distressing. She has NOTHING to offer.
This is why I’m only voting Zombie this go-round.
Zombie Debs/Zombie Wallace 2016!
(Henry, not George…)
The Running Dead?
I’m not dogmatically constrained to the two candidates mentioned above. A Zombie Eugene McCarthy could, conceivably, also get my vote.
No living person is progressive, could possibly be progressive enough to earn my vote.
Do you vote?
Great Info…nice
Jasa Adwords
the Welfare Law (ending welfare as we knew it).
Repeal of glass-steagall
NAFTA
Pioneered extraordinary rendition
DOMA
Prison Policies that disproportionally affected African Americans and other peoples of color, including a very racists prison drug-related sentencing guidelines.
Iraq sanctions (remember that what his Secretary of State said about dying Iraqi children?).
Kosovo
The Telecom Act of 1996
I could go on and on and on and on….and Hilary’s own political career should raise more eyebrows than praise from mindful progressives
Bill Clinton was a disaster. I can’t remember anything good from his time in office except he wasn’t a Republican and that’s a pretty low bar. Paket plts off grid untuk rumah 200 watt He gave us DLC and the horrible blue dogs, he was the primary cause of our economic meltdown plus many social policies that did hurt and continue to hurt a lot of people. He was a quite effective Republican president as a Democrat. Is Hillary a continuation of Bill? I hope not. If not, she has to deal with this and it’s a big deal.