It really doesn’t matter whether it is Bibi Netanyahu or opposition leader Isaac Herzog who is referring to Hamas as a “terrorist organization.” No one listens to them anymore. The word “terrorist” is supposed to close down all conversation and remove the requirement that anyone use their brain. It worked for a very long time. But it isn’t working anymore.
When Hamas was founded in 1988, their charter called for the liquidation of Israel. But many things have happened since 1988, including the fact that Hamas leaders have declared their willingness to negotiate over a two-state solution. Rather than see this as a clear sign of moderation and progress, both Netanyahu and Herzog keep railing against the international community for their willingness to recognize a national unity government in Palestine that includes Hamas.
Back in 2010, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told Prof. Robert Pastor of American University that the Hamas Charter “is a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons.” Meshaal isn’t just random dude, he was the target of the most infamous assassination attempt of Netanyahu’s first stint as prime minister in 1997.
It would indeed be a problem if the Israelis were to make a deal with Fatah that Hamas did not recognize. That is why it is highly preferable that Hamas and Fatah reconcile to the degree that they can negotiate as one entity. That is what they have done. But, instead of seeing this as a condition for peace that has been met, we get foolishness like this:
Netanyahu had called on the international community to stand up against what he described as a government backed by a terrorist organization, but instead the US led the world in making clear that it would work with the new Palestinian government, and the EU, the UN and much of the rest of the international community quickly followed suit…
…In comments earlier in the week, Herzog had blamed the US and EU recognition of the Hamas-backed Palestinian unity government on the “complete collapse of Israeli foreign policy” under Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman. “Netanyahu and Liberman failed to understand the international arena,” he said.
“Netanyahu speaks [but] the world doesn’t listen,” said Herzog Wednesday, adding that the prime minister’s failure to lead a diplomatic process “let Hamas into the West Bank through the front door.”
Herzog warned that if Netanyahu did not act on the diplomatic front, “Israel will lose the support of the international community and the ability to preserve [Israel] as a Jewish and democratic state.”
“Hamas” is not some magic word that shuts down the cerebral cortex of the international community. Herzog may be scoring political points on Netanyahu with his tough talk, but no one else is going to listen to this nonsense. What Herzog is offering isn’t a material improvement over what Netanyahu has offered, which is nothing.
I can’t think of a less productive political debate than one that tries to point blame for the international community recognizing the legitimacy of a Palestinian government that includes Hamas. Without Hamas there could never be a hope for a peace agreement that would be honored. Do you remember who finally made peace in Northern Ireland?
I’m tired of Israel’s crazy man. He isn’t interested in any two state solution. He’s a racist dirtbag. He wants the Palestinians to stay marginalized under Israeli control.
That’s the way it appears to me as well, Vic. Netanyahu seems very belligerent in his support of settlement building on Palestinian territory, which obviously makes peace negotiations impossible. It’s disturbing to hear from time to time that the Knesset, as currently constructed, is pushing Netanyahu from the right on the Palestinian question. I’d love to hear from others about the truth or falseness of this, because if true, that’s full of despair.
BTW, let’s note here that U.S. policy supporting “democracy” has always been a transparent sham. We pushed the Palestinians into holding elections, and when they chose to place Hamas in power, we said “Oh no, that exercise of democracy is illegitimate!”
This was also obvious to me as we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and tore out their established governments. As we built those countries toward the holding of elections, I thought, “Well, what if the voters in those countries choose leaders who campaign to install an Islamic theocracy hostile to Western interests?” The question answers itself: we won’t allow that as long as we have the power to prevent it, even if it’s what the voters in Afghanistan and Iraq want.
That’s some “democratic principles”, eh??
It’s not just Netanyahu. It’s Labor. It’s Yesh Atid. It’s Hatnuah. And in some ways it’s even Meretz.
All of those parties in Israel are scum, belligerent, and support the occupation.
As Booman pointed out, Herzog is just scoring political points; his way of dealing with things would be no different than Netanyahu.
Sad to say but it is true that Bibi is now the ‘middle’ in Israeli politics and he has a bunch of folks in his own Likud party that are actively working to oust him. So far he has proven to be too cunning and slippery to dislodge, however.
From a practical standpoint this is self-evident – Hamas controls Gaza and without their consent no peace will stand. But I can also see how – assuming honest intentions by the Israelis – some may feel like no deal with Hamas would be honored. It is precisely because Hamas’ charter calling for the liquidation of Israel “cannot be changed for internal reasons” that some in Israel have little faith in Hamas’ ability/willingness to negotiate an actual peace – there are sufficient support for that perspective within Hamas today that Israel cannot treat that as an irrelevant historical relic. It’s like negotiating in good faith with the Congressional Republicans.
Of course, if we don’t assume good intentions by the Israelis then this is all moot – Hamas could bend over backwards to prove that they no longer believe that Israel is illegitimate and they could declare with one voice that Israel should not be liquidated and Israel would still find a reason to say No.
The crux of the matter would be Israel’s intentions.
To have a question about Israel’s intentions after their behavior over half a century, after seeing what the founders themselves wrote about their (admittedly hidden) agendas just goes to show how effective their propaganda has been and how cowered and afraid of truth Americans currently are. Suckers born every minute, so it seems.
How deluded do we have to be to ASSUME good intentions from the Israelis? I’d say VERY.
And let’s not even mention the Mossad and 9/11.
Well, I don’t believe in assuming outside of purely academic exercises, but I suppose it would be about as delusional as assuming that Israel would ever bow to the will of the international community if that will is contrary to the will of Israel.
You know the business about the Hamas charter is bogus because Israel could (reasonably, really) make it a term of the peace deal that Hamas change its charter. Obviously they don’t really want to change the charter, they want to use it to score political points scaring Israeli voters.
“the world doesn’t listen…”
I’m tempted to say the Israelis and their deeply irresponsible leaders are only talking to themselves these days, but then I remember that the Israel lobby can get just about any resolution they want passed by our (normally paralyzed) Congress. So I guess someone is still listening to this shit. But not many outside their foolish American ally.
Always the blameless victims, even when running a 47 year illegal military occupation, blockading and stealing the land and resources of (desperately poor) others, while commencing devastating military operations against neighboring democracies. Iran’s nuclear “weapons” and Hamas’s Charter of Terror are the stale decades-old diversions, but too many have seen these reruns too many times already. Time for some new material, Benny, since actual progress or compromise or reevaluation is of course impossible.
This isn’t difficult. Games was (or is, you choose) a radical organization. Games can be brought into the legitimate political process or it can be kept out. Only one choice will work toward de-radicalization.
So what’s Bibi’s preference?
FYAutocorrect! “Hamas,” not “Games.”
Never good for the powers that be when the “peons” stop fighting among themselves over small stuff and unite against those that keep them down.
“Divide and conquer” is a time tested effective strategy for the elites. “In fact, Israel for many years tolerated and at times encouraged Islamic activists and groups as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the PLO and its dominant faction, Fatah.”
Hillary Clinton: We were wrong to take hard line against settlements
Yet the Democrats are still prepared to nominate this person…
She calls that a hard line? Oy!
Once thought she was merely tone-deaf, both literally and figuratively. Then read this:
And saw the pictures of the welcoming ceremony on the tarmac and decided that she’s insane. She hung out with McCain in the Senate because they’re both trigger happy when it comes to deploying US military forces.