Whatever is less that zero respect, that is what I have for Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, but at least in one respect I am willing to be more generous than my colleague Ed Kilgore. I’m willing to be more generous because there are some areas where I am willing to grant people the limited right to selfishly emphasize their narrow self-interest rather than the bigger picture.
What I am talking about here is how Sen. Rubio responded when asked why Cuba should still suffer under sanctions and isolation when other countries like Vietnam, China, and Saudi Arabia do not. Rubio made a point that struck Kilgore as absurd but that I thought made perfect sense.
On ABC, George Stephanopoulos reminded Rubio that the United States already has diplomatic relations “with all kinds of countries that don’t meet our democratic standards.” So why isolate Cuba? The senator replied:
“That’s exactly my point. We have those policies of normalization toward Vietnam, for example, toward China.They’re not any more politically free today than they were when that normalization happened. They may have a bigger economy, but their political freedoms, certainly I would not hold up China or Saudi Arabia or Vietnam as examples of political freedom, proving my point – that engagement by itself does not guarantee or even lead to political freedoms.”
If what you care about is primarily the political freedom of the Cuban people, then relaxing the formal opposition to the government there probably feels like taking away the one tool in the toolbox that might accomplish your goal. It’s true that we can look back at over 50 years of futility for this policy, but in the context in which Rubio is speaking, it’s also the case that hopes of true democracy arising in, for example, China, simply have not materialized.
There are many arguments that can be advanced to challenge Rubio’s position. If something hasn’t worked for a very long time, why not try something different? Why punish the Cuban people economically if there isn’t any political or human rights pay off?
But from the vantage point of wanting political freedom, the change in policy is not guaranteed to work, and we can cite similar examples where it hasn’t worked.
And, this is the crucial point, if it doesn’t work then what do have you left to work with?
So, to review, the context of the question that Rubio was asked was why should we have one standard for repressive regimes in Asia or the Middle East and another standard for Cuba?
And the answer is basically that Rubio cares a lot more about the human rights of Cubans than he cares about the human rights of the Vietnamese, the Chinese, or the people living in Saudi Arabia.
There is a sense in which this is distasteful because people are people no matter where they live and human rights are universal, but I don’t think it is a big sin for Irish-Americans to care more about what goes on in Ireland than what goes on in China.
What should be clear, though, is that U.S. policy cannot be determined by what one ethnicity cares about. Rubio can have a double standard, but the president cannot be bound by that.
The change in policy may or may not advance human rights in Cuba, but it’s worth a try considering that what we’ve been doing hasn’t worked.
I’m not really sure who’s arguing that “engagement by itself” is going to free Cuba. You saw the same thing in that stupid Washington Post piece:
I mean, what is up with the past tense there? Should have? He’s only just announced the new policy, so who knows what lessons he’s going to apply? At any rate, you can hardly say that relations are normalized when we still have the embargo.
What is missing in these discussions is the question of what would conditions be in those countries if there hadn’t been a normalization of relations. Would the human rights conditions be even worse?
Obviously, that is something we cannot know, but I have a hunch they probably would be.
Not to say they are not bad now, they are. And some of it is brought on by the corporations that have gone into those countries. But Rubio makes it sound as if normalization is only okay if we know it brings about absolute Nirvana for the citizens and a robust democracy.
Considering incarceration rates, the US has no bragging rights to “freedom.” Pathetic in the US, throughout the Caribbean, and Russia. Also note that the Virgin Islands and Guam are US “insular areas.”
There’s no excuse for Rubio, and I don’t know why you’re trying. There’s no excuse for Rubio because there’s no excuse for not having diplomatic relations. Relations with your enemies is arguably the most important part of diplomacy. I’m glad Obama is acting like a sensible adult while the Republicans are mostly acting like spoiled 4-year-old brats, sulking in the corner because somebody was “mean” to them.
There’s a little more nuance to the embargo, but the truth is the only time an embargo might have worked to improve a political problem is South Africa. For an embargo to have an effect, you’re going to have to have a country where corporations have a lot of influence, because they’re the entities that really care about money and trade. Embargoing a more-or-less Communist nation does nothing except make the people suffer, because the rulers aren’t in it for money and making them somewhat less rich won’t influence their actions.
In any case, 50 years of failure means it’s time to face reality and stop denying Cubans access to medical supplies and the opportunity to see their loved ones.
Totally OT, but I just stumbled across this:
Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses – NYTimes.com
About f’ing time. And this:
Dick Cheney confirms it: Bush deserves blame for CIA torture – The Washington Post
Is that a confession Mr. Co-conspirator?
This is Cheney saying that he and the CIA weren’t complicit in a coup.
Nothing more, nothing less. That fucking monster wouldn’t tell the truth to save his own life.
So, if normalized relations don’t work, and embargo doesn’t work, what’s left? It’s almost as if these other countries follow their own self-interest, and the U.S. is happy when it coincides with our interests, and sad when it deviates. The exact same dynamic occurs not just with China and Vietnam, but England, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Mozambique.
Puzzling, it is!
Our 50 years of cutting off Cuba apparently hasn’t taught those Cubans any lessons at all, according to Sen. Rubio, but he’s willing to keep trying. Why in Cuba, but nowhere else? More puzzlement. At least we know it can’t be for anything as base as mere politics. There must be some higher principle involved somewhere.
The world’s most powerful nation has become a laughing stock in the Americas. All nations in North- Central- and South-America do have normalized relations with Cuba. Obama would not have been welcome at the next OAS meeting in Panama. Obama had reversed the Bush policy of 2004 as early as 2009, he was waiting for the right opportunity to take his vision a step further. Well done, I’m astounded you don’t give Obama 100% backing … even Hillary Clinton has spoken out in support. Rubio is a loser and has lost the Latino vote in any future election.
« click for more info
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton dances at Café Havana in Cartagena, Colombia, on April 15, 2012. (Photo/ Café Havana Cartagena)
Campaign promise by senator Obama in 2008 – Cuban Americans for Barack Obama. Rubio is relying on the older generation of Little Havana in Miami.
○ Will Latin American leaders give Obama an ‘earful’ on Cuba at Americas summit? | WaPo | Sept. 29, 2014 |
US Foreign Policy is NEVER about human rights. In the 1960s at the university I learned it was not about an ideology, the Cold War was a battle of economics. It still is! Globalization is the key word and the new TTIP free trade treaty to be signed with the European Union to subvert its social principles, labor rights and ecology regulations to the benefit of capitalism.
The only objectives
the U.S.Russia had inPanamaCrimea were to “safeguardAmericanRussian lives” and “protectAmericanRussian interests” by defending that crucial passageway from theAtlanticBlack Sea to thePacific OceansMediterranean Sea. “We are not there,” he emphasized, “to remake thePanamanianUkrainian government.”○ How the Iraq Wars began with the Invasion of Panama
Beautiful! Absolutely beautiful!
Strikethrough text is awesome, no?
Imagine how USians would react to a China or Russian funded coup in Panama that would result in English being outlawed, US ships charged more and given low priority through the canal, etc.
The idea that we haven’t magically created democracy in Vietnam or China in the 20 years of relative openness is to lose track of broader historical trends.
As we should have learned in Iraq, democracy does not burst forth fully armored from Zeus’s head, like Athena. Hell, it took the United States about 50 years to go from the Constitution to universal white male suffrage, another 100 for women to get the vote and another 50 for black southerners to get the vote.
Democracy evolves. And while modernization theory isn’t perfect and doesn’t always apply, I do believe that people only care about their political rights once they no longer fear for their survival. You just don’t care about the ballot if you don’t know where you next meal is coming from.
Vietnam ranks 126th in the world in GDP/capita/PPP. China ranks 85th. Cuba ranks 61st, between Romania and Venezuela. If Cuba gets even a little richer, they start to nestle into a sweet spot of democratization.
And that’s leaving aside the fact that there are two Chinas. Tell me the people of Hong Kong don’t care about their freedoms. Tell me the people of Shanghai are sending their kids abroad for school because they love the Party State.
Given the choice between political freedom and wealth, I imagine the Cuban people would choose wealth. I know the American people would, we have a whole major party dedicated to eradicating freedom for just the illusion of a chance at wealth.
China, about which Rubio knows less than nothing, is a work in progress. It is an entirely different place from what it was toward the end of the Cultural Revolution when Nixon and Kissinger visited, outraging all the Birchers forever.
Elections there are certainly not much more democratic than Azerbaijan, but a very lively culture of social protest movements, absolutely unthinkable in Cuba (to say nothing of Singapore, say, which has perfectly good elections that just happen to always return the same party) has grown there alongside the incredible leap in prosperity since the Reform and Opening Up, from 8,700 “mass group incidents” in 1993 to probably over 180,000 in 2010 (numbers from Wikipedia, which provides an excellent backgrounder to further investigation). I think it’s certain that the ongoing anti-corruption drive in China, which is huge, is a response to popular anger.
If Rubio really cared about Cubans he wouldn’t object to changes that may not lead to political change but will certainly get them more to eat.
What Rubio cares about most are the desires of the (dwindling) former Batista regime human rights volators…they’re the right kind of human rights violators.
Non-communist human rights violators.
Rubio is a fucking dolt, and Pierce nails it.
The fucking dolt can’t help but step on rakes.
Repeatedly.