Do you think there is anything even mildly offensive about saying that you’d like to treat undocumented people living in our country exactly like FedEx treats packages? It’s stuff like this that makes minority outreach so unsuccessful for Republicans. Because, you know, the rest of us can hear you when you think you’re just talking to your base.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
68 Comments
Recent Posts
- Day 14: Louisiana Senator Approvingly Compares Trump to Stalin
- Day 13: Elon Musk Flexes His Muscles
- Day 12: While Elon Musk Takes Over, We Podcast With Driftglass and Blue Gal
- Day 11: Harm of Fascist Regime’s Foreign Aid Freeze Comes Into View
- Day 10: The Fascist Regime Blames a Plane Crash on Nonwhite People
What’s the downside?
If the speaker’s base, however despicable, turns out, and the rest of us, however noble do not, there’s no offense.
So it was in this Republic’s early days with slavery, for near a hundred years.
The right, and a quarter, will get you a cup of coffee.
The only question at this point is whether there remain at least 75 million sane people in this country who will turn out in a wave election that shakes all levels of government.
The whip count of my social network, which was trending toward sane, has reversed and the current target is Hillary Clinton. Today’s coup de jour was Hillary photoshopped with Trump’s hairstyle and the comment that that’s her new hairstyle after she consulted the polls. Yes, lame, but repeated, shared, and liked across the internet. And it’s mixed with commands to say Jesus’s name. Quite a reverse trend from a month ago. You can tell that the Great Wurlitzer, including the church organs, has a full head of steam.
While on the other side, folks are proving that they put no stock in the counterpart of Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment. None at all. And the centrists are working for defeat all over again in hopes that they will be the great white hope next time.
Depressing.
No! No! The sane ones have figured out that it’s all a shuck! Voting is exactly what They want us to do! Everyone I know is not voting! PermaGov! Not a dime’s difference!
Hillary Clinton could win the general election short of an implosion of the Obama administration or a catastrophic gaffe. Obama winning with 8% unemployment proved that and the demographics will be more in her favor in 2016. I just don’t think her victory margin will be by anything other than modest amounts at the rate that she’s going. Not unless Trump really goes all-out on a culture war instead of sticking with his current strategy of lackadaisical but unapologetic white supremacy.
As we can see from the establishment wing’s snickering at BLM, they crow about how they have PoC in their wing but they mistake inertia for support. Sanders and O’Malley floundering for three weeks was the perfect time for Clinton to swoop in with a slate of policies, consolidate their current advantage, and then tell the DFHs to go pound sand. But no. This, the historically small debate schedule in which there are only half as many primary debates this cycle as the 2nd-smallest post-Nixon non-incumbent cycle, and the DNC dithering on one of Obama’s greatest political achievements indicates to me that for all of the snickering the ‘serious’ and ‘mature’ Dems on this and other boards do at those starry-eyed emoprogs the establishment doesn’t have a fucking clue as to what they’re doing.
Remember how all the Jesse Jackson people, the true progressives, and people of color, stayed home, and resisted the blandishments of Dukakis’ campaign and the national party, in 1988.
You don’t. Because it didn’t happen.
And it’s not happening this time.
I think Clinton’s keeping her powder dry. Time will tell if that’s a bad strategy but 14 1/2 months is a long time and it’s a change from what she tried in 2008.
Ugh.
It’s Christie’s attempt to out-crazy the Donald. And here we are talking about it.
Sox are out of the wild card race, and football’s still in pre-season. (This is New England, we don’t do college football).
So the Donald it is…
That’s Christie running for AG of the US.
Also incredibly stupid. FedEx only tracks a package for three days and for all that time the package is in the custody of FedEx equipment and personnel. How exactly does Chrispie plan to keep immigrants in the custody of USG facilities and personnel?
What he’s actually proposing is that all immigrants have an RFD tracking microchip implanted and that it would explode if removal is attempted. There’s probably a lot of support for such a notion. B/C lame brains wouldn’t consider that once the tech is proven to work, everybody would be required to get a chip implant or that too would be fine with them.
1. How exactly does Chrispie plan to keep immigrants in the custody of USG facilities and personnel?
FEMA camps are not being utilized right at the moment.
2. There’s probably a lot of support for such a notion.
Yup.
3. everybody ELSE would be required to get a chip implant or that too would be fine with them.
FTFY.
FEMA camps are not being utilized right at the moment.
He didn’t call for incarcerating eleven plus million people. Again, some people would be fine with that, but their numbers are far short of 50% and nobody would be willing to pay for it.
I think there are some empty WalMarts in Texas …
Also, FedEx packages have no reason to try to hide from the tracking system. They don’t voluntarily cross borders or overstay visas, they just get their barcode at the point of sale. At what point in the journey does Christie think he’s going to be doing the implanting? The stupidity is so huge that I honestly can’t focus on the racist dehumanization part, appalling as it is.
I don’t think so on the last, universal RFID is way too close to Mark of the Beast territory to pass without protest.
Sort of like the fundies would never go for a thrice divorced candidate that’s not “born again” and doesn’t say much about abortion?
With the WH and GOP controlled Senate, there’s not much to stop them from ordering such tracking device implants in immigrants. The rubes will buy it as a “practical and sensible” solution the what they believe is the problem. (If the anti-abortionists had ever been able to figure out a rationale for encouraging women of color to have abortions while outlawing it for white women, that’s what they would have pushed for.)
That’s a bit different in that they divorce themselves so it’s always been a hypocrisy. Also less frightening considering the way the Number of the Beast is viewed in fundamentalist circles.
Where did you see this? I have looked all over. This is just made-up crap.
Not difficult to recognize that barcodes would be useless to track immigrants. Where and when would such labels be scanned? How would such labels be affixed to the body of immigrants? Is he proposing that immigrants be tattooed? Like that’s not going to horrify most Americans.
If the plan is to track immigrants, what are the viable options?
Read the fkng liked article. Or think a minute about the implications of tracking foreign nationals like FedEx packages.
It really doesn’t take much imagination to know where this would go.
He isn’t even talking about undocumented people, or immigrants. He’s talking about people with tourist visas and student visas, to make sure they don’t overstay them. These people are not undocumented. And most of them never have any intention of overstaying their visas, i.e. they are not immigrants. This is not just a technical point.
Gee, you figgered it out. How come nobody else has noticed that this proposal is about visitors and those who come on visas, not illegals?
Of course, those who come through airports can become illegals. And that is why this is a good idea.
The left is so fixed on “Republicans bad, republican ideas bad” that they never even stop to think about the actual proposal. This is a reasonable idea.
Neither you nor I know the extent of what Christie meant when he said we should emulate FedEx’s tracking system. The statement was so vague, anything FedEx does in its tracking system could be in or out. Christie did a poor job explaining exactly what he was advocating yesterday. Bar codes are one of the best-known aspects of FedEx’s tracking system, so if there was a misunderstanding it was initiated by Christie’s explanation.
Re. “Republicans bad, republican ideas bad”: what ideas are you talking about? If you’re talking about the policy proposals you’ve detailed in your posts here, I don’t know that those have been proposed in Congress by Republicans or anyone else. Were the policies you detailed part of the comprehensive Senate Bill? If so, well, then, the problem is that Republicans in the House are bad, because they refused to bring up the Senate Bill, which had a significant amount of workplace enforcement, as I recall.
No, it’s crazy. How are you going to do it? Put GPS tags on them?
I think what Christie is proposing is that FedEx or their execs already gave him money or soon will. I’n not sure Christie understands the difference between governing and accepting bundles of cash.
You mean…I’m going to find undocumented people on my doorstep, all wrapped up and sent to the wrong address?
Or…undocumented friends will not be able to find where I live when I want them want to do so?
Or…there will be big delivery trucks full of undocumented people double parked on almost evey block so that the streets are unpassable?
Oh.
You must mean the way FedEx is supposed to treat packages.
Oh.
My bad.
Nevermind.
Yore freind…
Emily Litella
http://federalsoup.com/articles/2015/08/27/senator-calls-new-usps-delivery-standards-a-disaster.aspx
?s=FD_280815
But then he’s a DFWM so he isn’t allowed to speak.
They need to demand a manufacturer’s refund on those dog whistles, they’re not working correctly at all.
this is who they are.
nothing they say is surprising
Christie and the GOP like the idea so much then we should accommodate them. There should be a test of the system first, every GOP member,RWinger, Teabagger whatever should be required to have it done. Then after a 3 year study of all their movements we shall see.
Christie is a toad, full stop.
So this is just another instance of the Republican frame of thought. They reduce an entire segment of the population to non-human status. Remember Romney’s binder full of women?
By marginalizing the groups they despise most, the Republicans find it easier to reduce their value as human beings. They become numbers, statistics instead of living human beings with goals and dreams. If the Republicans portray them as reprehensible animals, it’s easier for the Republican followers to vote against their interests and their very survival.
Win/win for the Republicans.
“A driver’s license is required to operate cars in all states. No one calls that fascist.”
Well, the Montana Militia does.
“Every country in the world tracks visa users and other visitors.”
So what is Christie proposing that isn’t already happening?
“Every EU country requires that an ID be shown for hotel stays, travel tickets, etc.”
We do not track visa overstays. In point of fact, in S744, here is the text:
So, in other words, the recent S744 proposed to establish a program to “notify” foreign visa overstay criminals, in a polite way, doubtless with a tea service, that THEIR FUCKING ASSES HAD OVERSTAYED OUR HOSPITALITY. And then they would write a report.
Of course, no ACTUAL DEPORTATIONS would occur.
In point of fact, we do VERY little deportations of visa overstays, and that is why there are 4,000,000 of them here.
It’s not just immigrants. He wants to track all visitors. So even foreign tourists at the Grand Canyon would have to get a chip implanted, or be tattooed with a bar code.
Have you ever traveled abroad? Every country tracks visitors. If you overstay your visa in Japan, and you are caught, you pay a big fine, sometimes are jailed, and are deported at your own expense.
We are not Japan. A Korean with a passport and valid visa could within hours of landing at LAX disappear into the Korean community in Cal. Or, a Hasidic Jew with a passport and valid visa could within hours of landing at Kennedy disappear into Brooklyn to never be seen again. Or, a Polish tourist with a passport and valid visa could within hours of landing at O’Hare disappear into the Polish community of Chicagoland. If you don’t look Japanese and speak Japanese, there is no place to hide in plain sight. We are not Japan.
And your point is what specifically? I actually was aware that we are not Japan, as I am writing in English. The point is, to be blatantly obvious, that tracking foreign visitors is perfectly reasonable, and done by every country in the world.
Sure they can disappear. However, a fairly low level document checking approach would catch them eventually, they would be fined heavily, and deported immediately on their own dime. What’s not to like?
On their own dime? What are you going to go, hold them until they pay their deportation bill?
Yes, of course. What do think the US government is, a charity?
They came here as visitors. They obey the rules. You break the rules, you pay to go home.
This is so obvious that I am appalled that I have to explain it to you. These people are adults. They are here. If they abuse our hospitality, they go home, and FUCK YES, they pay their own way.
Oh, forgot to answer your question. Yes, they would go to jail if they couldn’t pay. 30 days, or more, depending on the amount of visa overstay. Certainly, I would send them to jail for 1 day for every day overstayed.
This is not complicated. Visa overstay is a serious matter. You overstay in any country other than the US, you do serious jail time, pay huge fines, and are barred from re-entry for 1 year to 10 years.
Let’s see, 4 million new inmates at,say, 50 dollars a day? 200 million per day times 30 days = 6 billion per month. Very efficient. Then what? What if they still don’t pay? Another 6 billion? Clever.
Except most won’t go to jail. Like 1%, maybe. So another ridiculous idea promoted by hysteria is easily dismissed.
These visa overstays are mostly middle-class highly educated people, who do not want to go to jail…
And they are taking jobs that Americans want to do. And for which there are plenty of Americans available.
Debtor’s prison is debtor’s prison. Whether the policies you propose would imprison 1%, 50% or 99% of visa violators who were taken into custody, re-initiating debtor’s prison policies would return the U.S. to a dark moral place which we have abandoned.
we’ve kind of abandoned
Just as a point of fact, I see no place where Christie has proposed a chip or a tattoed bar code. So that is just a great big pile of nonsense.
Did you read the linked article? He wants to track tourists the way FedEx tracks packages. That means some network of devices that report on a tourist’s location every step of the way. You’re a data guy – if not chips or bar codes, how would you go about keeping tabs on millions of tourists in a way that couldn’t be easily circumvented.
Yes, I’ve been abroad, and I know there are penalties for overstaying visas. We have the same thing in the US. Christie is talking about something far more comprehensive. Or maybe he made the FedEx comparison just to show that he can name drop an important CEO.
YOu have no idea what he is talking about. You are just pulling this crap out of your paranoid ass. What bullshit!!
FedEx tracks packages. The logical conclusion to that would be that he would require some sort of bar code or RFID system that people on in the US on visas would have to check in with at periodic intervals.
Despite your claim that other countries do that, no they do not.
They require travel documents on planes, trains, and hotels and I agree they do a better job of tracking down people who overstay their visas but they don’t have a barcode or RFID tracking system.
A more serious proposal from Christie would have been something along the lines of we have to increase the enforcement of Visa overstays. Coordinate with the travel industry, employers, and colleges to verify that people are not overstaying their Visas and then streamline the process to send them home when we find out they are.
Also he could speak on his experience as governor of New Jersey. Specifically the number of employers in seaside resort towns who take advantage of the H-2B visa program to bring in young foreign nationals for summer instead of employing US high school and college students.
Bullshit. That’s one possible answer, and of course, rather than explore plausible notions, you simply leap to the conclusion that the worst notion is what is going to happen. BAAAHHHHH! BAHHHHH! BAAHHAHHHA!
Bunch of damn sheep.
This is SPECIFICALLY for visitors. A plausible model is that 1) you register using a biometric ID on entry 2) you use the ID to register at hotels, for travel purposes, and so forth, and 3) you use the ID on exit. Then we know when you entered, what you did as our guest, and when you exited. This can all be done with passports, biometric IDs, or other such tools. None of this is unreasonable.
He said he wanted them to be tracked like FedEx tracks packages. Those are his EXACT words. If he means something different than barcode or RFIS tracking he needed to clarify that.
As for your biometric ID proposal that too goes further than the countries you say we should emulate. Those countries don’t require a biometric ID at airports, hotels, etc. They require a government issues passport.
Come on, come on. Let’s try to reason like adults, not hysterics.
He said that he would get the Fed Ex guy to come up with a solution. The solution is obvious, and I already gave it to you, so I am not going to do it again.
Just because a solution works in one place, that does not require that you use the same solution other places. The PRINCIPLES are clear: 1) Come up with a method 2) Apply it consistently 3) Have appropriate consequences 4) Make sure enforcement is fair. Why is this so difficult?
As you have noted, there is plenty of examples. My solution is a universal ID (which could be used as a Drivers license). When visitors arrive, they get the ID. You present the ID for all 1) hotels and lodging of any kind 2) employment 3) travel 4) large purchases of $2500 or larger. This is already implimented in many countries. We can do it here.
The visitor gets the ID by presenting the passport. Or if that is too complicated, the passport can be used. Passports today are machine-scanable.
The basic solution is the Universal ID, for all persons.
clear but he didn’t say that. He said he wanted to track people like FedEx tracks packages. It isn’t hysterics to take what Christie said at face value. I have no issue with coming up with a better system for visa overstays like you are proposing. I have huge issues with “tracking people like FedEx packages” i.e. barcoding them and expecting them to check in periodic intervals like Christie is proposing.
Quoting him directly:
“I don’t mean people are packages, so let’s not be ridiculous,” the New Jersey governor told an interviewer on Fox News Sunday who pointed out that foreigners do not have labels on their wrists.
“This is once again a situation where the private sector laps us in the government with the use of technology,” Christie said. “We should bring in the folks from FedEx to use the technology to be able to do it. There’s nothing wrong with that.”
The problem is not with what he suggested (using the expertise of those who have developed systems to develop a similar, but not identical, system). It is the headlines that distort, contort, and propagandize his comments.
FedEx has control of the packages at all times where as the US government does not have control of people visiting the US at all times. I honestly don’t see how he thinks what FedEx does can be applied and find his proposal that it can be both laughable and appalling.
If he were serious about the issue he would look at what other countries are doing and and adapt proposals for a multi-ethnic nation of 300 million that is the the 4 largest in the world by size.
Blather about how if FedEx can do it so can the government is not a serious proposal at all and also dehumanizes people.
The use of the H-2B or J-1 for the employment of foreign nationals and NOT the employment of local kids is a genuine scandal, that few seem to notice, and I appreciate your bringing it up. Did you know that the employers get TAX BREAKS for employing foreign “students” instead of US kids? They don’t pay 3 kinds of taxes. It’s a fucking disaster. We don’t hire our own kids, employers get to cheat on the minimum wage, and youth unemployment is massive (50% in the minorities in a lot of places).
How would I do it? I would institute document checking at all 1) hotels and places of lodging 2) places of transportation, like trains, buses, car rentals, and planes (which already exists at planes, but no one bitches about that) 3) places of employment and 4) transactions of $2500 and higher.
The point is to institute a system of identity checking. In the EU, every hotel visit, every transportation access, you show your identity document. It’s simple control of access.
These foreign visitors have no rights beyond what we grant them. We need to control our borders. And interior controls are far more sensible than big idiotic walls. Forget the wall, just check IDs.
Thanks for the compliment. I am nice. Ask my wife.
Here’s what makes me happy: Your crusade against los indocumentados is going to fail. For all your glib, childish proposals, the fact remains that deporting 11 millions people and keeping them out would be a truly gigantic national project that would cost a shitload of money and that not all that many people actually want to do anyway. And your proposal to bill the immigrants for the costs of their deportation is approximately as frivolous as Donald Trump’s plan to make Mexico pay for a wall along the border.
“my campaign against illegal criminals” – there, fixed that.
I guess that a simple bar code tattoo on the wrist might work?
the rest of us can hear you when you think you’re just talking to your base
Haha. Reminds me of Aasif Mandvi’s question to a North Carolina Republican county chair after the latter had unburdened himself of several racist remarks: “You know that we can hear you, right?”
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/don-yelton-racist-daily-show-interview.html
All these guys are doing is writing the script for the next Trump fest making fun of them. He will have a field day and run up his numbers even more.
It’s significantly more than mildly offensive. As a student of history, I’m reminded of how IBM helped the Nazis keep track of the Jews so they could solve THEIR problem.