Okay, so it used to be that Democrats didn’t particularly care if their daughter married a Republican and Republicans didn’t really worry about their son marrying a Democrat. That may no longer be true, at all, and it may be, in fact, that people are more hung up about the political affiliation of prospective sons and daughters-in-law than they are about their race.
At least, that’s the conclusion reached by researcher Shanto Iyengar, the director of Stanford’s political communications lab, and political scientist Sean Westwood. In fact, their testing revealed that people are more apt to discriminate against college scholarship applicants based on party than on race. And this phenomenon, which began showing up after the Reagan Revolution in 1980, has been accelerating in recent years.
It’s a very interesting article and I encourage you to read the whole thing. But it didn’t address the question I had in reaction to the findings.
What are the issues that are driving this?
After all, the researchers didn’t expect issues or policy to have anything to do with anything.
The results showed, as you might expect, that Democrats exhibit an automatic bias against Republicans, and vice versa. What was surprising was that the bias partisans exhibited for their out-group exceeded the bias white participants showed for black people, or that black participants showed for white people. According to the test, Americans are more automatically partisan than they are automatically racist. (If you want to know your own results on the racism test, you can take a version meant to test racial bias here.)
This was, to Westwood, a bit of a shock. “To be honest, I didn’t expect this to work at all,” he says. “The common story is most Americans don’t care about politics, they don’t understand politics, they don’t understand policy. So you wouldn’t expect Americans to have strong preferences. That’s where I started.”
But, for whatever reasons, it’s increasingly true that moms and dads see members of the opposite party as morally unfit to join their families by marriage. There must be real-world things that lead them to that conclusion.
Perhaps Republican parents can’t abide anyone who is supportive of reproductive rights because they see abortion as such an atrocity.
Perhaps Democratic parents can’t contemplate having someone to Thanksgiving who thinks torture is acceptable.
You know, maybe people have some pretty strong moral values and they see the other party as being completely immoral.
This is, I suspect, what has happened.
I don’t think differences about tax policy explain why the country has grown apart to such an alarming degree.
It’s probably true that the media has played a big role in making this happen, but this can be exaggerated.
Also, if these folks think the following is true, they need to watch more Fox News:
“Political identity is fair game for hatred,” he says. “Racial identity is not. Gender identity is not. You cannot express negative sentiments about social groups in this day and age. But political identities are not protected by these constraints. A Republican is someone who chooses to be Republican, so I can say whatever I want about them.”
You can see an example when you look at the media, Westwood observes. There are no major cable channels devoted to making people of other races look bad. But there are cable channels that seem devoted to making members of the other party look bad. “The media has become tribal leaders,” he says. “They’re telling the tribe how to identify and behave, and we’re following along.”
There are some ways in which MSNBC and Fox News are mirror images of each other. They both are, at least for a good portion of the day, devoted to making the other party look bad. But Fox News is also committed to making blacks look bad.
And they’re not much better when it comes to Latinos, Muslims, and folks who want a wedding cake for their gay wedding.
There are some ways in which MSNBC and Fox News are mirror images of each other. They both are, at least for a good portion of the day, devoted to making the other party look bad.
MSNBC is a complete joke. 10 meek hours a week compared to 24/7 garbage?
Interesting. As tribalism based on religion and race slowly winds down over time, will it be replaced by political tribalism? I hope instead that people simply evolve beyond tribalism entirely, and judge one-another by “the content of their character”.
Isn’t that precisely what this is about? We’re using political party–an opt-in state, unlike ethnicity, with overt moral implications–as a stand-in for ‘content of their character.’
I liked my neighbors when they moved in. Then they slapped a Ben Carson bumperstick on their car. I like them less now.
I hear you. I have some super nice right wing friends. They are really fine people, great parents. I try to avoid talking about national politics with them.
“they slapped a Ben Carson bumperstick on their car.”
Does that allow them to park in handicapped spaces?
Pulled in all directions. Hate the party they have to vote for to avoid the worse situation of the opponent winning.
Does anyone else feel that American society has reached an inflection point?
There are two major strands of ideology in America today, and they used to coexist ok, but not anymore.
If one of these two is going to win out over the other, we’d better be sure its our side.
The sanguine attitude is that the youth today don’t share the toxic attitudes of their elders, but that’s a hope, not a plan.
The worst part of it all is that we now get to listen to media scolds tut-tut both the Star-Bellied and Non-Star Sneetches for their foolishness — when in reality the Non-Star Sneetches were much more justified in keeping the vicious cycle going than the Star-Bellied ones.
I took their Implicit Association Test. I’m sure everyone will be completely unsurprised that I suffer from virtually no partisan bias, falling smack dab between “Moderates” and “Independents”. (Wait, what?)
I’m a little to the right of Mussolini, apparently. And I never suspected it.
That’s some quality test.
Er, Joe Scarborough
Don’t forget MSNBC has added Halperin to the mix. And then there is Lil’ Luke, Andrea Mitchell and others. They’re not liberals or Democrats. They’d be GOPers if it wasn’t for all the hate-filled present day GOP.
The genius of Scarborough is he makes the Republicans look bad by association.
I’m an artist and I teach workshops all over the country. I have always reminded my students, who are primarily women in the 50+ age group, that we don’t discuss politics or religion. It takes a millisecond for things to get ugly, and I don’t need the hassle.
When I used to work at a women’s fitness club, the same rules applied. The crap that some of those ladies used to spit out made me sick, and I couldn’t respond to it. But it made me aware that the divisions between the political parties are deep and wide, and it doesn’t take long to descend into true anger.
How do we as a nation of so many different opinions keep thongs moving forward? Neither side will give an inch. During the Bush Administration I tried to be conciliatory, but not now. I have no solutions.
As a practical matter, doesn’t that make Republican demographics more dire? Women are more liberal. Guess they do need those Quiverful mothers.
I’m not sure about “women being more liberal.” They weren’t in 1960. Not uncommon for me to run into couples where both are Republicans, but the women is more conservative than her husband.
Given the latest missive from Trump, will that make it worse or will some brave republican call enough?
It won’t be enough, or course. This divide has been building for a very long time. We likely all have some of it in our own families and circle of friends. I live in a very conservative area but I still have friends here. You learn to keep relatively quiet and they all know where I stand. So there is that. Still this election cycle has put some stresses on us and Trump is not helping.
Two points. First as Donnah mentioned — no politics or religion in her art classes — was a standard social rule until the late 1970s. Oh sure, religion was an issue in the 1960 election, but that was only because JFK was a Catholic and there had never been a Catholic POTUS. His religion may have lost him a few points in the popular vote, but it was based on his status and the preexisting fear of Catholics being subservient to the Pope. Other than affirming his complete acceptance of the separation of church and state, he didn’t publicly speak of personal religious beliefs. Jimmy Carter introduced more overt god-speak to politics — and then the GOP ran with it.
Second, the political differences between Democrats and Republicans weren’t quite as wide and deep, or maybe it was as monolithic and intractable, as they became with the election of Reagan. It wasn’t difficult for a leftie to have thoughtful and respectful discussions on specific issues with a moderate Republican. On something like the MIC could even reach a certain level of agreement that wasn’t possible with say a Scoop Jackson DEM. But those discussions were framed by the issue and not political partisanship which was more often than not, not specifically disclosed. Environmentalism, reproductive privacy and freedom, and respect for education and science crossed party lines.
Those that rejected evolution were viewed as ignorant regardless of political affiliation, but best not discussed with those that reject facts. The Vietnam War also crossed party lines, but as the young on average tend to be more liberal, the opposition was stronger within the DEM party. I suppose we could blame Republican SecDef Robert McNamara for destroying the DEM/liberal majority consensus.
I’d say environmentalism still does cross lines to a large degree, at least at grassroots level. Lots of Republicans have discovered their inner DFH over the fracking issue.
Possibly not much of a change for individuals, but at the GOP party level, it has definitely shifted. How many current GOP pols if elevated to the presidency would support the creation of the EPA? Don’t most want to close it? Mandating a 55 MPH speed limit to reduce oil consumption? Laughable.
(Let’s also not forget that Peggy Goldwater was a founding member of PP AZ, and Prescott and GHW Bush supported, if not PP directly, contraceptive use. (Although in the case of the Bushes wouldn’t assert that it had anything to do with respect for women and choice.)
Reagan, Bush 41 memos reveal sharp contrast with today’s GOP on climate and the environment
Also, my mom is a total health nut and loves biking. If I told her the idiotic tea party she supports opposes bike paths because of Agenda 21, she’d say they’re crazy (except she believes the Agenda 21 conspiracies, too, just not with respect to bike paths).
Can you be more specific about being “a total health nut?” There are many businesses and spokespersons on the right that milk that orientation for their own gain.
You could merely point out that Republicans and teabaggers don’t support public bike paths and if they had their way, would eliminate them. No need to bring up Agenda 21.
What connects your mother to the tea party? Discover that hook and it would give you a clue as to an effective point of attack.
There is zero effort in even attempting this unless she discovers that there is no God, and that’s just cracking the surface; she’s authoritarian by nature, and extremely susceptible to fascist arguments. There is no point in pursuing this, and only heartache and misery.
Oh, and she’s totally milked for money over that supplement crap, well before the right wing noise machine combined with Evangelical Christianity came into the picture. But putting her gullible nature with respect to dietary supplements aside, vegetarian, aerobic instructor by profession, and generally eats extremely healthy; was also in a female body building show/competition in her mid forties.
Reminds me of a friend’s description of her ex-husband. Deeply committed to past lives channeling and an unwavering partisan Republican.
As she buys into the supplement crap (little of which is absorbed and isn’t excreted and some of which is a detriment to health), would question how healthy and well-balanced her vegetarian diet actually is. Well-informed and healthy vegetarians shun the supplement crap. But no use and only aggravation to challenge her on her diet religion.
Absent a personal and profound life crisis, authoritarians are poor consumers of objective information. Even worse if the authoritarianism is combined with narcissism and/or religion, one or both of those variables almost always seem to co-exist with the authoritarianism; so, perhaps authoritarianism doesn’t exist on its own. Trump exhibits the first two without the religion. Palin exhibits all three.
How you survived that is a miracle — but don’t say that out loud because that could be taken as evidence of the existence of god.
I don’t think we can truly assess whether these particular supplements are neutral or harmful; they’re certainly not helpful, though. She tried getting me to take them as a teenager and I was like “why? It’s called food. I’m not anemic, I don’t have an iron deficiency.”
However, supplements aside, again, she eats healthy and I can vouch for that. I truly do not understand the supplement thing. Especially because she comes to me for financial advice; told her to stop pissing money away on bullshit snake oil as a first measure. Lol.
The main reason there’s no point in trying is because there is no critical thought in connecting dots. It is why I know first hand — and tell pwoggies this all of the time — being right on the facts and the issues and even having majority support for your pet issue is not enough. Paid family leave and increasing wages at bullshit jobs like Wal Mart is obvious to her; yet she’d tell you on and on how Obamacare is a job killer because of the cost to employers, and unions are bad.
Not as bad or hopeless as you first described. Using Jungian typology, her rational (or cognitive) function is “feeling” instead of “thinking.” The latter style consciously connects facts, dots, etc. logically. The former connects facts, dot, etc. with one’s personal, often indiosyncratic, experiences and the process is less conscious or amenable to articulation. (How the rational function interacts with the irrational function along with intro or extroversion makes for wild differences between two people that are both “feeling” types.) Gladwell’s Blink presents a couple of instances where “feeling” is superior to “thinking” (but we do want our bridge builders to be “thinking” types).
As she’s been able to “feel” her way to concluding that paid family leave and increased minimum wage is good and that she sucks at financial questions, almost anything else is possible.
The key is positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement doesn’t work well with feeling types. example — “Mom, you’re correct that the high cost of health care is a job killer. That’s one reason why so many employers have exported their manufacturing facilities to China and other countries. Of course that jobs outsourcing began long before Obamacare and there’s no evidence to date that Obamacare is a factor in more jobs leaving the US.”
I’m telling you lol. There is zero point. Beyond hopeless. Even if I tried competing with her fascist radio and YouTube channels, I’m sure the church would provide more counters.
And then there’s abortion which makes any argument on any policy grounds pointless. This is pure tribal signaling and posturing. I don’t think it can be repaired.
If she’s happy and content with herself and her life and has no financial worries or concerns, then agree that it’s pretty dire.
At least she’s been able to comprehend your distaste for RW radio well enough that she turns it off in your presence. Any chance that you could facilitate replacing some of her RW radio time for company with music? Seriously, it’s not only the content of RW radio that rots brains but the volume of it that’s consumed.
Should have added in my last comment never to introduce hot button issues with her. But have ways to shut her down when she introduces them. Such as, “Facts aren’t debatable and opinions aren’t facts.” Or from Neil deGrasse Tyson, “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.”
Or just settle for bike rides with her for as good as it gets.
Dubious about past lives channeling — not the past lives but the channeling part.
Supplements though, the good ones not the low-grade cheap ones often sold in pharmacies, probably can be helpful. I use them to strengthen the thyroid, to supplement loss of nutrient value in modern foods, and to help ward off environmental dangers.
Certainly safer, and cheaper, than the hardcore drugs Big Pharma tries to sell us.
Channeling past lives is how people discover how important and fabulous they once were. Shut down a friend once with, “If I’ve lived before, odds aren’t good that I was even made it up to the level of being a poor wretch of a human.”
As for nutritional supplements, use whatever you believe is helpful. Although, as with pharmaceuticals, there are environmental issues/consequences that impact all of us. The science on supplements (and many prescription drugs) is a few decades behind the producers and marketers, and the purveyors want to keep it that way. So, my guesses and opinions have no more validity than anyone else’s. Although I do know that placebos can be effective.
I’m also a believer in the placebo effect — taking the supps/treatment w/a positive attitude.
As for past lives, I’m fairly convinced Theodore “Ted” Cruz was Tailgunner Joe. Carried most of his extremist views from that life to this, and generally seems to act like he’s been on the big stage before.
It’s pretty easy to evaluate this study, assuming that they adjusted for the races of the people surveyed:
Democrats (liberals or otherwise) are less racist than their forebears in the party.
Maybe that’s an optimistic conclusion, but it would pretty much account for much of the effect that they’re seeing, right?
The hate from whatever source scares me.
The Germans have a grand coalition government: socialists and christian democrats in the same government. Former enemies now reflect broad agreement.
I can’t imagine anything like that here.
I keep seeing the hate sessions from 1984 being played out.
I have no idea what the solution is: but it can’t be good.
Did you see this? http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_12/facts_over_fear058895.php
I think it’s related somehow to all of this, the fact that we’re freaking out, left and right alike, about a problem that is no bigger–in fact, is smaller–than it’s been in decades. That’s not to say that terror attacks and gun control aren’t real issues. I just fail to see how they’re really pressing issues.
I don’t know. I’m missing something.
What is surprising us that it’s news
Violence is dropping all over the industrialized world. The decline in US violence as I have written before is stunning
Good luck finding about that in a gun piece of a piece about us moral decay
The actual ideological differences are arguably smaller than 50 years ago
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What is surprising us that it’s news
Violence is dropping all over the industrialized world. The decline in US violence as I have written before is stunning
Good luck finding about that in a gun piece of a piece about us moral decay
The actual ideological differences are arguably smaller than 50 years ago
So what’s with the sudden upswing in fear? It’s all projection?
Part is local news, which now focuses almost exclusively on crime and violence.
But I really think a part must be the rise of social media, the creation of a public persona via Facebook that didn’t exist. I think it is making all of us much more tribal, and giving more granular definition of what that tribalism means.
Where identity is define by tribe, a disagreement with tribal belief becomes heresy to be opposed.
Except as we keep finding out, Socialists in government are often a bad joke. See Hollande after the Paris attacks. See Syriza.
>”Political identity is fair game for hatred,” he says. “Racial identity is not. Gender identity is not.”
Yes, and GOP political identity IS racial and gender bigots. It’s that simple.
Yes, and GOP political identity IS racial and gender BIGOTRY. It’s that simple.
Booman – can’t you add “editing” like other sites so your readers don’t look like illiterate fools?
well, no, that’s just what you see on the teevee. if you talk with actual people, not paid pundits, it’s something else.
It’s what I see in the bills they pass and the platform they run on. It’s not what the “actual people” say in a discussion – it’s what policies become law. (repeal Obamacare, start war after war, make abortion illegal, harrass those trying to obtain birth control, continue urban war against minorities …)
The Environment in Which Trump Can Thrive
“Growing up, I remember my parents never letting us have Asian food on December 7th. They were children of WWII.”
~Erick Erickson
Heh, it just so happens that I went to my fridge to look for food, and noticed Chinese food leftovers that I forgot about. Here’s to you, Erick Son of Erick!
Guess his parents were as ignorant as he is. The honor the Dec 7th without any awareness of US WWII enemies? Also doubt his family ate Japanese food on any day of the year.
Does he realize that China was a WW II ally of the USA?
So egg roils are OK, but no Pizza or Bratwurst.
ABC News US Faces $1 Billion in Trade Penalties for Meat Labels
Looking forward to unlabeled frankenfood grown/raised on raw excrement somewhere in the world.
As a Black person, I’m not going to have any Slave Catching Black Republicans in my house.
Period.
I would be disappointed if my child married a Republican – I’d try and be accepting, sure, but I’d be disappointed. Similarly, if I know that a particular business is owned by “conservatives” I will avoid shopping there.
Why?
I was in college in the late 80’s and considered myself a Republican at the time. I don’t recall hating democrats though – they were just mostly well-meaning people who were wrong, but I honestly at the time thought, well, we’re all Americans, we’re all in it together.
However, during that time, I had a job driving a deliver van…which only had an AM radio. It was right at the time that Rush Limbaugh’s show was taking off, and his show was often on when I was driving for work. I recall being stunned and astounded at the level of hatred and contempt directed at liberals and democrats, and the open and proud racism I heard. The viewpoint wasn’t “democrats are well meaning but wrong,” it was “those people are the enemy and don’t even count as fellow citizens.”
It was shocking to me at the time, but it’s only gotten worse over the ensuing years. My initial reaction at the time was “I don’t want to be a part of anything like that” and so I stopped considering myself a Republican. Since then, well…you know, I think you can only encounter that attitude so much until you harden against it in response. If someone is politically aware enough to consider themselves a Republican/conservative, that signals (to me) that they willingly accept and endorse a type of rhetoric that is deeply, deeply opposed to me, and on a very personal and fundamental level.
What you say.
I’m a boomer. Growing up, I remember that there was definitely division between the 2 political parties, but the idea was more in line of: the loyal opposition.
I lived overseas for over 8 years from the late 70s through the mid 80s. I was shocked when I returned at how divisive things had gotten under Reagan. My parents constantly yapped at me about the “liberal media” and how it was the ruination of all good things. I never ever got a satisfactory answer to how the media – at that time – was so “liberal.” I certainly never saw it that way. I think back then, it had to do, in part, with the VN War and how televising that war turned even die-hard conservatives against it. Ergo, facts have a liberal bias.
It’s just gotten worse and worse thanks in no small measure to those who fund Hate Radio and the execrable Rupert Murdoch.
My parents forced me to listen to Limbaugh way back in the day bc they insisted that I at least “hear him out.” This was in the late 80s when he was “mild” in comparison to now.
I was appalled at what I heard – the whole rant was negative, nasty, hateful. FemiNazis, the blahs, poor people – all to be hated and excoriated but nothing so bad as the horrible dreaded Democrats!
I told my parents that I was totally opposed to such inflaming rhetoric. That the negativity expressed was harmful to the listener and that I deeply disagreed with almost everything he said. They thought I was simply nuts. My father said, back then, “some day you’ll see!” Eventually he had to concede that I’d never change my mind. He could never understand how I was so awfully and horribly “liberal,” but I give Dad credit for at least being able to talk to me in a mostly sensible manner about politics. That cannot be said for the rest of the family. They’re all off the deep end.
But my rightwing fundie family had already had their wheels greased by starting watch Pat Robertsons hate TV show, the 700 club. Plus they always listened to Joe Pyne back in the day.
The GOP has always played the long game. They are super well funded. They’ve developed their own brand of “churches,” including the bs Family/Fellowship. Their whole goal is a fascist takeover this and other countries in the name of a very debased and debauched form of hate “Christianity.”
The rhetoric that streams from these hateful “churches” bears absolutely no resemblance to what I learned and heard in churches of my youth.
My one sibling is off the charts barking mad with this hateful stuff. My other sib is less nutty but can get worked up over Muslims. My parents, may they RIP, are gone but I can certainly see them being Trump fans, sad to say.
It’s simply horrible but not surprising that this is what it’s come to. The propaganda pumped out by the powers that be has had this goal in mind all along.
What to do????
I’m a south side of Chicago guy who knows what a pizza is, and know what an Italian Beef is supposed to do for you.
My wife grew up in Communism. She knows to leave well enough alone. She knows what many Americans can never know.
We both know the current system is worse than Communism ever was. We both know there are crazies right and left.
What we ultimately know is that the right is bordering on insanity now and needs a course correction.
The left needs to listen to Howard and Jim Dean. 50 states, every election contested. THAT I will work for or donate to.
I think Trump is the enema the right needs to get its innards cleaned out.
They’ve got bad gas. Trump reeks like the worst farts your dog or grampa ever did. It will be nice to have some republicans worth voting for once they get the current foulness out of their systems.