We like to talk about and distinguish between high-turnout elections and low-turnout elections. It’s an observable fact that more people vote when the presidency in on the line than when it is not. In recent cycles, this had an important predictive value about which party would have a better election night. When there is high turnout, it helps the Democrats and helps explain why President Obama was twice elected. When there is low turnout, as in 2010 and 2014, it favors the Republicans and helps explain why they gained a lot of seats in those midterm elections. None of this is controversial.
However, there’s something else that needs to be explained. Why, for example, did three and half million fewer people turn out to vote for president in 2012 than had done so in 2008 despite the fact that voting age population was larger in the latter election?
Ever since the numbers started to roll in in November 2012, Republican analysts have been debating the answer to that question. On November 8th, 2012, Sean Trende of Real Clear Politics took an initial pass at the question and estimated that “almost 7 million fewer whites voted in 2012 than in 2008” even while the “African-American vote…increased by about 300,000 votes…the Latino vote increased by a healthier 1.7 million votes, [and] the ‘other’ category increased by about 470,000 votes.”
He would explore this thesis more over time and as better and more complete data became available. Eventually, he’d revise the number of missing white voters down to six million. One of his takeaways was that passing comprehensive immigration reform might not be as helpful as the RNC believed because it would do nothing about these missing white voters. In fact, it was most likely to further alienate and antagonize them. And, in any case, the “missing white voters” of 2012 at least represented a big pool of potentially sympathetic voters.
In my recent four-part series on demographic changes, the 2012 elections and immigration reform, I suggested that census data and exit polls reveal that some 6 million white voters opted to sit out last November’s election. The data show these non-voters were not primarily Southerners or evangelicals, but were located in Northeast, Midwest and Southwest. Mainly, they fit the profile of “Reagan Democrats” or, more recently, a Ross Perot supporter. For these no-shows, Mitt Romney was not a natural fit.
I drew the conclusion that one path forward for the Republican Party could involve, in part, reaching out to these voters by altering the GOP’s economic platform and messaging. There are still valid questions that flow from this: How much do Republicans have to change to win these voters? Do they pay a price with upper-income whites for such a shift? Can they make these changes and still be Republicans? What is the best path forward? These are great questions for further debate, but my point in the series was simply that there really are multiple ways to skin the electoral cat, and that the much-uttered meme “Republicans must pass the Gang of Eight [comprehensive immigration reform] bill if they ever hope to win another national election” is sorely lacking, at best.
So, the analysis became for a time a debate over whether the Senate’s immigration reform bill should be sent to the president’s desk or not. Supporters of the bill saw Trende’s analysis as a threat and were eager to argue that white conservatives had indeed turned out in 2012. For Karl Rove, who had famously been so wrong about Romney’s prospects on election night, it’s still critically important that Republicans don’t get it in their head that they can win elections simply by getting the “missing white voters” of 2012 to show up in 2016. But Rove’s analysis is contentious and bogged down in semantics. He says that the missing voters weren’t really conservatives or evangelicals.
Similarly, while Mr. Romney carried 59% of white Catholics who voted in 2012, those who didn’t turn out appear to be middle-class and often blue-collar voters, like those in GOP-leaning counties in northwestern Ohio, who would never vote to re-elect Mr. Obama but apparently felt Mr. Romney did not care about people like them.
These missing moderate, white Catholic and women voters who didn’t vote in 2012 can be motivated to vote for a Republican candidate in 2016—if they think that candidate cares about people like them. Still, getting back some voters in these three groups, while also generating higher turnout among conservatives who generally don’t vote, is probably not enough. To win, the GOP must also do a good deal better among Hispanic, Asian-American and African-American voters than they have since 2004.
Now, this is an interesting and important debate, but there’s something that both sides agree about. They agree that there is a big pool of white voters out there who voted for McCain but not for Romney. And they agree that their profile is basically that of blue collar workers in the Midwest rather than evangelicals in the South. They are, roughly, the “Reagan Democrats” of Macomb County, Michigan first identified by Stanley Greenberg back in the 1980’s.
It seems to me that these are the type of folks who are gravitating to Donald Trump. I need more data to confirm my hypothesis, but here are some supporting indicators. A USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll just found that 68% of Trump’s supporters say that they would support him in a third party bid while only 18% said that they would not. As for the important first-in-the-nation Iowa Caucuses, Sen. Ted Cruz leads the polls when a tight likely voter model is used but Trump leads when a looser screen is utilized. In other words, folks who didn’t vote in the 2008 or 2012 caucuses are more likely to support Trump than voters who did participate. Trump is attracting new voters and voters who had dropped out.
His platform, if you can call it that, is pretty well designed to appeal to this demographic. He opposes the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Mexican immigration, and he promises to keep scary Muslims from entering the country. He’s not hammering on traditional social values issues that don’t interest these disaffected voters. He’s making more of a generalized racial, religious and tribal appeal. And he’s saying he’ll make America great again, with the unstated premise that he can preserve what’s great about America and restore what’s been lost. If you want to get missing white voters to the polls, Trump’s approach seems capable of doing that.
But these voters probably aren’t going to turn out in the same numbers for a Republican who seems like a Mitt Romney retread. They may have some pretty conservative or even intolerant attitudes, but they aren’t necessarily Republicans at all. They’re probably as likely to nod their heads at a Bernie Sanders speech about breaking up the big banks as they are to cheer a Trump proposal to stick it to the Chinese. Their default position at this point is, I believe, to just stay home. They didn’t vote in 2012 and they won’t vote in 2016 unless they get something significantly different on the menu.
This is why having Trump in the race, even as independent candidate, will probably boost overall turnout.
The problem is that the election won’t be decided just by who shows up but also by people who change their mind. For every disaffected white voter that Trump brings out of the shadows, there will be a newly motivated voter who shows up just to oppose him. And there will be plenty of Romney voters who can’t bring themselves to vote for Trump, just as there were Bush voters who couldn’t vote for McCain and Palin.
Still, to maximize right-leaning turnout, Trump needs to be on the ticket. He can be on the ticket as a Republican or not, but a lot of his voters won’t turn out without him.
All clear thinking people should oppose TPP.
Does anyone really believe that HRC opposes the TPP in any substantive way? Her campaign and supporters trying to get me this is one of the most intelligence-insulting things I’ve ever read from a Democrat. Even more insulting than that stupid Family Entertainment Protection Act.
Honestly, a utilitarian view of the TPP’s passage has me going ‘meh’. As far as non-rich Americans are concerned, it won’t make much of a difference in the short or long run. I just dislike how blaise Obama and Clinton have been with peoples’ concerns, even if they’re misguided. And I especially dislike HRC’s duplicity.
The United States Family Entertainment Protection Act (FEPA) was a bill introduced by Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY), and co-sponsored by Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Tim Johnson (D-SD) and Evan Bayh (D-IN) on November 29, 2005.
You are known by the company you keep.
Can’t agree about TPP. I agree with Bernie and Thom Hartmann that it is NAFTA on steroids. A treaty designed to enhance the profits of a few mega-corporations while condemning the working class to permanent peasant status.
It means that I would have gone to jail in 2000 instead of getting a warning so I care a lot about the ip provisions.
The missing voters were disproportionately Gen-X and Millenials. In 2008 the <45 white vote was barely a majority for Obama and in 2012 it was a slight majority for Romney. At this point, it’s hard to say whether the drop-out Missing White Voters were Democrat-favored or Republican-favored, but given that black turnout increased in 2012 by 4% yet 14% more black males aged 18-29 voted for 2012 Romney than 2008 Obama I think a fair bet is that in the four years the Democratic Party didn’t just have voter dropout with young Missing White Voters but actual vote switching. So assuming that the Democratic Party doesn’t do anything to reverse this trend, I suspect that increased turnout will help the Republican Party.
That said, since white Millenials were still the reason why the Democratic Party won the Midwest in 2012 (if only by diluting the vote in that region) I wouldn’t worry too much if I was the Democratic Party… unless Trump is on the ticket. While I’m positive that economic conservatism + social conservatism won’t do the trick, I’m not willing to bet on a Hillary Clinton defeating Trump-flavored faux-populism. Since the Midwest is very white, Trump can still win Minnesota/Virginia/Ohio/Michigan/Pennsylvania/New Hampshire/Iowa/Wisconsin even if he gets <10% of the racial minority vote. Those plus the Romney states would let him barely squeak in a win for 2016.
Just another reason to support Sanders, I suppose.
Then again, this whole analysis becomes moot if Trumpism is what causes the Republican Party to lose Texas and Arizona in 2016 thanks to increased Latino and black turnout in this region. It’s not looking likely at this point, but who knows what the future will bring.
Latino and black vote in Texas will be suppressed. Count on it. ((tm) Arthur Gilroy)
They want a world back where all you had to be was White. And, all those ‘others’ knew their place.
They long for the delusional world of Mad Men…where they believe they were big fish in a big pond..
the truth is that they were fish where 90% of everyone else was locked away in sardine cans.
Nobody’s going back to those days.
They wanna party like it’s 1948.
And, it’s not gonna happen.
I’m glad you noticed: “Why, for example, did three and half million fewer people turn out to vote for president in 2012 than had done so in 2008 despite the fact that voting age population was larger in the latter election?”
Obama ran in 2008 on a campaign of change and hope. Then after he was elected this is what happened to his administration as NealB put it in an earlier post: “Look at the names in that administration: Hillary Clinton, Rahm Emanuel, Larry Summers, Robert Gates (R-Bush), Ken Salazar, Kathleen Sebelius (R-Kansas), William Daley, Timothy Geithner (R-Deep Space Nine), Joe Biden. This is a DLC-designed administration all-the-way-through, more than a few outright Republicans included.” Obama turned out to be a Blue Dog Democrat resulting in three and a half million less people voting. Simple answer to this riddle: There was nothing to vote for.
This is a central problem as explained by Howie Klein here:
http://crooksandliars.com/2015/12/what-are-we-going-do-about-dinos
Now we are about to nominate a candidate whose family is the inventor of the Democratic Blue Dog, Hillary Clinton, helped by the DNC to suppress enthusiasm by limiting the debates while Hillary only offers weak tea half measure solutions to our problems.
You say, “In other words, folks who didn’t vote in the 2008 or 2012 caucuses are more likely to support Trump than voters who did participate. Trump is attracting new voters and voters who had dropped out.” The answer to this is simple: There is something to vote for. You are correct that Trump will help down ticket races because these voters will fill out the entire ballot.
You even concede: “But these voters probably aren’t going to turn out in the same numbers for a Republican who seems like a Mitt Romney retread. They may have some pretty conservative or even intolerant attitudes, but they aren’t necessarily Republicans at all. They’re probably as likely to nod their heads at a Bernie Sanders speech about breaking up the big banks as they are to cheer a Trump proposal to stick it to the Chinese.” If we nominate Bernie, we will get these voters just as Bernie has been trying to tell us.
Far too many people have been telling us that there is no real difference between Establishment Democrats and Republicans. Hillary will continue to enable the corporatists to loot the economy plus get us into another war. If the only reasons to vote Democratic are the Supreme Court nominations, we are only one more Muslin mass shooting away from losing this next election.
Believe Bernie when he says we need a strong progressive agenda that will make lives better for all people in order to solve this problem. Let’s give our country something to vote for and swamp these Republican idiots.
“Timothy Geithner (R-Deep Space Nine)”
ROTFL!
Seriously, I wish I could rate that “10”. I’m with you all the way.
Thanks for this.
What I’m about to write is hardly a new observation, but sometimes a post like this reminds me of it nevertheless: Both the GOP and the Democratic leadership really don’t agree with their bases on much – in fact they mostly just agree with each other. The rest is just theatre to keep the political masses entertained.
Personally, when Emmanual was announced as the first appointment I felt cheated given all the time I’d spent campaigning for Mr Audacity to Pretend to Advocate Change when Actually Supporting the Status Quo.
It was like working/voting for not-Clinton/Bush and within hours of winning, learning that there was no not-Clinton/Bush, only Clinton/Bush.
The implication of what you’re saying is that the Trump voter is a person whose objective self-interest is to vote Democratic, but who was abandoned by the Obama/Ram Emmanuel abortive effort to become the party of Goldman Sachs, Google, Hollywood and Big Pharma. As Clinton is still trying to run that play, I don’t see the Dems getting these voters back any time soon.
Excellent analysis. I think that this is a weird kind of swing voter that represents the defecting piece of the FDR coalition. And the key piece of Kevin Phillips’s urban ethnic (industrial Midwest ethnic as well) base for Nixon. These are people more than the evangelicals who answer to the “Silent Majority” dogwhistle. There are those types in the South as well among the non-evangelical Jesse-crats.
Bernie has to defang “socialist” as being vulnerability in order for this bunch to swing his way, however. The only gift is that the Cold War is 26 years ago. A lot of those people are too young to have experienced the McCarthyist-Nixon terror and its long-lived propagation through organizations like the Chamber of Commerce and the John Birch Society.
FUNFACT: The over 45 vote voted pretty much the same by proportions and relative turnout between 2008 and 2012. Where Obama really bled was with the youth; he outright lost a whopping 6% of the <29 vote to Romney and 2% of the 29-45 vote. The youth vote also tanked by absolute turnout, too; 7.2% fewer 18-24 year olds voted in 2012 than in 2008.
I’ll be watching the 2016 primary with great trepidation. If Sanders pulls out a win that doesn’t rely on Clinton imploding due to non-political factors, it’ll be almost certainly due to the youth vote. And if he wins it there, he’ll more or less sleepwalk to the Presidency and has a really good chance of picking up the House.
“…represents the defecting piece of the FDR coalition”
We didn’t leave the Party so much as the Party left us, starting with Bill Clinton’s appeal to the Yuppies.
I believe you are right about this. The nickname R’Money explains why six or seven million didn’t vote for him. I know many of them from full-blown Socialists (only two) to knuckle dragging troglodytes. NONE of them want Bush. I haven’t heard any that like Hillary either. She is too far Right for the Democrats and too far Left for the Republicans. They will probably sit out the next election unless Trump makes his Third Party run. In that case, you will see 1968 redux for sure, with Hillary filling Nixon’s role.
There were 7 million missing voters in 1996. Rove found them in time for 2000.
Go here: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/
Move non-college educated whites to 90% R and Hispanics to 100% D.
Don’t be so complacent about assigning blue collar whites to the ashcan of history.
Update: Move non-college educated whites to 75% R. Move both Hispanics and Asian/other to 98% (higher than the 93% black) D.
That one is a real eye opener.
Play with the numbers. It’s an interesting site for electoral junkies.
You’re assuming a 10% swing in non-college educated whites (relative to the Romney-Obama ticket) in next year’s election?
No, not predicting, but it’s possible. Many on this site think a democratic win is inevitable and blue-collar whites don;t matter. Some have said “Let ’em all vote republican, it doesn’t matter.” But if this simulation is accurate, and nate Silver’s stuff usually is, then it does matter.
Play with the tool, it’s fun.
BTW, shift the blue collar white vote a little and the Hispanic vote a lot and you get a crushing 406 Electoral vote for Team D.
Also, not everything changes. In the scenario i cited above, CA, NY, and IL stay blue. Even in the R landslide scenario, NY & CA stay blue. On the opposite side, TX, MS, & AL (and I think TN) always stay Red even in a Roosevelt style landslide.
Those are non-college-graduate whites. More than half of people attend some college.
Why would that demographic suddenly vote 90% R? Those that want to get their hate on already vote. If Obama didn’t bring them out in swing states where they could have made a difference by voting R, Trump won’t either.
AA voter participation likely peaked in 2012, but the 93% D rate isn’t likely to change much in 2016. However, would need to drill down by states as to where AA voters increased in 2012 over that of 2008 to make any intelligent assessment of whether a lower participation rate will have any impact on the 2016 election.
You are assuming that all are racists. Many are frustrated with lack of jobs, bad pay, continual tax increases (local but they are not sophisticated enough to understand the federal system) and just agitated by the rabble rousers. TV stations, most are right wing owned, blast out fear messages every day to sell advertising (and with the added benefit of pushing RW politicians). If they move, they will not move to DLC candidates. They might turn Left, but maybe not after a lifetime (from 1980 on) of messages that the Left are dictators that hate freedom (freedumb is more like it), but not Center. There is no radical Center.
Why do blacks vote 93% D ? At least they know which party is to their economic advantage. Why aren’t Hispanics and Asians? At least according to the default settings at that web site.
In any event, I wasn’t predicting, but just pointing out that it’s a bad idea to write off that demographic as so many here do, claiming that Democrats can sweep with non-white vote alone. Actually, the tool does show that possibility with greatly increased turnout. Black people used to vote 90+% R, before the New Deal.
Maybe half of whites have gone to college in Northern California, but definitely not in Illinois. There has been a surge in young people attending, but I predict that will drop as more and more realize that college is not the ticket to good jobs that they have been told, but just a one-way ticket to unemployment with crushing debt that can’t be erased by bankruptcy.
As a famous R once said, “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time.”
Where have I ever said that all non-college graduate white people are racist? Starting an argument with “you assume X” without any evidence to support the “you assume X” statement is a debate fail.
Likening what the DEM party represents for AAs to what the GOP represents for working class white people is also a fail. The GOP has become the party that actively works to disenfranchise AAs, supports segregation and redlining, and in countless other ways puts a boot on the lives of AAs. It’s tiresome for men and white people to liken the reduction, in law and culture, of the privileges that men and white people have long enjoyed at the expense of other demographic groups to what has been done to AAs, Indians, etc.
At least AAs appreciate who has been their enemy. Whereas a high percentage of white people think “the man” is on their side and have been siding with “the man” for decades can still can’t recognize that it’s not working for themselves but for “the man.” It has been their defection to the GOP man that has left too small a population of working class folks and their allies (or kindred spirits) to turn out the DEM man.
It’s not the freaking taxes (your continuous harping on this makes you sound like a Republican), it’s the change from progressive to regressive taxation, the income, and the poor allocation of public resources that’s the problem.
You live in an enlightened state. Illinois has one of the most regressive tax structures in the country. Until Toni Preckwinkle took over the Cook County board (from another Democrat) on a pledge to lower sales taxes and clean out corruption (in the first two weeks she fired all her predecessors relatives and cronys), Cook County had the highest sales tax in the Nation, nearly 11% and over 12 percentage on cooked food (from Micckey D’s to Charlie Trotter’s). Our property tax rate is second only to New Jersey (No prop 13 here). The income tax is not high, but is flat, not graduated and the personal exemption is ridiculously low. The burden falls on the lowest income groups, not the highest. How would like to make $15 an hour and pay $5,000 or $6,000 a year in property tax alone? Lower income workers inherit a house built in the ’20s and ’30s and have to sell it because of the property taxes.
My point was that people conflate these taxes with federal taxes, so when the Koch’s minions talk about cutting taxes, they don’t associate that with carried interest or capital gains or megamillion bonuses, but with their local taxes that are crushing them. When the Koch’s rail about inheritance tax they don’t relate it to the federal inheritance tax, but with the Illinois inheritance tax that starts at a $20,000 estate. I don’t think I know anyone, including some very well to do people that have an estate big enough to be federally taxed.
Taxes are a big deal in Illinois. Yes, the state is out of money. That’s due to a combination of crony contracts, insider benefits, and a regressive tax structure. Corruption is a fact. How many Governors have been sentenced in federal court, not to mention scores of lesser politicians? Soon, I have no doubt we will add many Chicago police officials and Chicago school officials. I remind you that they were appointed by Democrats Rahm Emanuel and Richie Daley.
Chicago has not had a Republican Mayor or Council for sixty years. The racists opposition to Harold Washington was from Democratic Aldermen.
In Illinois it is very much the freaking taxes.
That’s the statement that I took as dismissive. Upon re-reading it, I realize that I may have misinterpreted you at 4:50AM CST. In light of your later protest, I apologize for my misreading.
But the taxes are still a big deal to white working men. I stand almost alone in not caring about the level of FICA or Federal Income Tax, nor the state income tax for that matter. When I lived in northern Virginia, the state tax rate was nearly four times the rate of Illinois. But Virginia’s tax is graduated and allows one to deduct mortgage interest and more. the one page form tells to to first list the Federal adjusted gross income, i.e. all the Federal deductions apply. I never objected to paying my fair share of income taxes as long as i was working and had an income to tax. But, yes, I object to bleeding an unemployed working man with regressive property and sales taxes.
BTW, the Virginia property taxes were five percent of the Illinois (Lake County) property taxes. Virginia funds schools from income tax, not property tax. As my wife says, “For a backward state they ran things pretty good and the roads weren’t full of potholes.”
Now, please realize she is talking about the mechanics of government, not the stupid blue laws and racism. I remember my surprise at seeing a box titled “race” on my driver’s license application. I hope they still don’t do that.
Not so enlightened here. Sales tax ranges from 7.5 to 10%.
Prop 13 [1978] — contrary to what you may think you know about it — totally screwed up the tax base. Two classes of homeowners, those that purchased before implementation of Prop 13 and those after. The pre-Prop 13 haves also have ways to carry-forward their low tax rate when they sell and purchase another house. Those that purchased after are stuck with the purchase price valuation and that can be increased based on the market (but not by as much as pre-Prop 13). Large (corporate) real estate owners pay a paltry amount in property taxes which was the intent of those that put it together and paid to get it passed. Jerry Brown deserves a lot of blame for its passage.
California ranks 40th in education expenditures (thank god there are ten states that are worse).
One can’t only look at property taxes when computing the cost of housing. It’s a combination of cost, interest, and taxes. It’s possible that a house in CA comparable to yours would have lower property taxes and such a house in CA would only cost some multiple of what your house is worth.
A multiple of at least three and probably four for the purchase price. Even if you inherit such a house, I doubt that a normal person could afford the property taxes if they were proportionate, $18,000 to $28,000.
No I don’t know the mechanics of Prop 13. That is true.
I once (last year?) went to Zillow looking for a house under $300,000. For the area, I just put in “CA”. I was surprised that 42 houses came up. The first one was a nice looking Spanish-style ranch. I noticed the front yard had no grass. I didn’t recognize the town, so I googled for it. it’s in the middle of death valley. One by one, the others dropped out too. some nice houses with green lawns near Sacramento, It turns out that that particular area floods every eight years. deep flooding, like the whole house underwater.
I had a lot better luck looking around Portland OR & Seattle WA.
If you own a decent house in a decent neighborhood, you can sell it and move here and live like a Queen. Be prepared to spend a few hundred on snow removal.
It’s not hate so much as fear.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Obama lost 14% of black males 18-29 to Romney relative to his 2008 performance. That’s very much not good news for the Democratic Party, especially if Trump wins the primary and it turns out that we’re even less post-racial than the centrists crowed about.
Do you have a reference for that statistic?
http://www.people-press.org/2012/11/26/young-voters-supported-obama-less-but-may-have-mattered-more/
Romney doubled the GOP support from 18-29 year old black males?
More likely the participation rate for young black males dropped significantly between 2008 and 2012. As Obama increased his percentage among blacks overall, it’s likely that he retained the 2008 black males that were 26-29 in 2008 and the newly franchised 18-21 year olds didn’t bother to vote.
I’m afraid so.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100327202709/http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/socdemo/voting/publications
/p20/2008/tables.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20131001091210/http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/socdemo/voting/publications
/p20/2012/tables.html
2008 Black Male Voter Turnout
18-24 year olds: 50.7%
25-44 year olds: 59.1%
2012 Black Male Voter Turnout
18-24 year olds: 43.6%
25-44 year olds: 59.0%
Turnout increased overall for blacks (by 4%, which is huge for one electoral cycle), but it was done solely by turnout of older blacks. Nonetheless, Obama still lost 2% of the black vote going from 2008 to 2012.
It’s not panic mode for the Democratic Party yet, especially with the Republican Party continuing to fly their bigot flag, but they should seriously be reconsidering their approach.
My (white) grandson was an enthusiastic Obama supporter in 2008. I’m not sure he voted in 2012, although I urged him to. The young are too guileless. They believe politicians. It takes a lifetime of lies to become a cynical old man. And I even yet, believe in Bernie and Elizabeth Warren.
BTW, didn’t matter if voted in 2012. He was living in Phoenix then, so it didn’t matter either way.
Now he’s living in Washington (state), so it might count. He’s still looking for work, but I don’t know how hard. He is grateful to Obama for giving him Medicaid without having to be disabled. His girlfriend is an Afghanistan veteran and even more cynical than me. She recently found work as a receptionist. In my not so humble opinion both of them should be working good union jobs at USPS (she would get veteran’s preference) but USPS is in the hands of people determined to privatize it and destroy the unions.
The young, more so than other age demographic groups, are most likely to vote when there is someone on the ballot that they want to vote FOR or they can register their anger (a factor in 2000). Fear doesn’t work well to get them to vote.
At this time, young voters have more demographic power than ever. That fact seems to escape the DEM Clinton supporters who believe the numbers for her are so good that they can blow off the young.
We’ll know when Iowa comes around. My best prediction is Clinton 2016-2023, maybe McAwful after that, but it really won’t matter then will it?
my secondary prediction is Trump 2016->forever.
It’s been a downer. Went to lunch with my lifelong democrat friend, white Irish Catholic (age 65), and yes, I did know he was a racist. Talked about Trump a lot and how trump had great ideas. Scary. You might see those defections I talked about in another thread. Tried to steer the conversation back to Postal gossip. He gave me a copy of the union floor letter. Employment at our plant is down 40% from 2005 and the clerks are working 12 to 16 hour shifts. Both District and Area refuse to allow any hiring. I’m glad i got out in February instead of waiting for September.
Trump’s “great ideas” fall into two categories:
Immigrants are evil and we’re gonna ship them all back to where they came from and not let anymore in. (Might want to remind your friend that the same was said by those like Trump when Irish immigrants were flooding into the country. Lucky for him that there was just enough right thinking people that his ancestors weren’t shipped back to starve in Ireland or rounded up and place in internment camps.)
“We’re going to look into that.” How much cheaper does it get than suggesting agreement with whatever an idiot presents as a problem and nothing more? His supporters don’t even seem to get that all he’s saying is I might appoint a study group to look at your dumb fucking complaint.
Ironic, isn’t it? Of my two closest friends there, the lifelong Conservative Republican, never voted for a Democrat, is not a racist and the lifelong Democrat, never voted for a Republican (before) is. Both hate the ground Hillary walks on.
Unless they can specifically articulate what Clinton has done or stands for that causes them to loath her, they are sexists. I have no respect for those that use sexism, racism, homophobia, or religion (usually highly superficial) as a guide in evaluating candidates for political office.
While any dynastic political candidate starts in the hole with me (RFK wouldn’t have and Teddy didn’t get my primary vote), who they are and what they’ve done and propose to do, carries far more weight. Thus, I could loath GWB and so far merely dislike Clinton. Obama was far from my ideal version of the first AA POTUS, but could live with the compromise to achieve such an important milestone. For me, Clinton is too large a compromise to for the first woman POTUS.
Personally, I don’t think Clinton gets two terms.
I hope you are right. Care to make a prediction? Not what you want, but your best guess what’s going to happen.
Still mulling. The GOP tends to recover more quickly when the crazy wing of the party, much to the displeasure of the elites, leads the way to a loss than when they can’t see much wrong with what they did that resulted in a loss.
Check out Bernie’s two latest ads. Clean, direct, positive, and without all the fake saccharin coating of standard issue “positive” campaign ads. Unknown if good positive ads can be effective enough against whatever crap the opposition throws out.
I especially liked the second one pointing out “effective Mayor”. In the beginning that’s what bothered me most about backing a Senator. Burlington isn’t Balrimore or Chicago, but it’s executive experience.
I like both. The first one not effective for Iowa — while farmers have a lot of smarts, suspect that Iowa farmers may be too dumb to relate to dairy farmers. Will work better in CA, WI, NY, PA, and ID. A focus on the crops dairy farmers grow to feed their livestock would be helpful in Iowa.
The second is a distillation (well done I might add) of his longer introductory video production. Hitting the relevant high points. Believe I recommended that.
Check out his Tonight Show appearance. Calling the Trump/GOP fear mongering “crap” was great. Also nice to see that he has added my other suggestion (not that his team is taking any tips from me, but has figured it out on their own) — smile more. Of all the candidates, he has the most pleasing/warm smile and it appears natural/authentic. Then again, I’m biased in that I think all aspects of self-presentation are important and make a difference in voters choices.
I’d like to point out that the difference between 2008 and 2012 Obama is due to two things: 10-15% increase in support with Asians and Latinos and youths across the board abandoning him. Both in turnout and in outright defections. Otherwise, excluding age and age-related dependent variables (like black Millenial support) things were pretty stable: in black/white racial support, by class, by region, and even by partisan preference.
If Obama 2012 had gotten his 2008 numbers with voters aged 18-29 and changed nothing else, 2012 would’ve been an even bigger landslide than 2008.
The HRC campaign being dismissive of the youth vote is pretty alarming. If there was one thing she could do to not only seal the deal for her Presidency but also recapture the House, it would be to get the 18-29 vote on her side. But she looks largely disinterested in doing so and I can even hear the excuse right now: why should we invest into turning out such a fickle, picky voting segment when I already have a loyal voting base that loves me for who I am?
Just another reason to support Sanders, I suppose.
Not so much dismissive as aware that socially, culturally, and economically she is far more conservative than the young. She can’t inspire them and they wouldn’t believe her if she attempted to snooker them by suddenly evolving quickly into a progressive. Plus, she’s going for an older and more conservative electoral base and for any point gained by appealing to younger voters, she could lose more than a point with older voters. She’s counting on them not voting or at the last minute deciding that the GOP nominee is too evil and they’ll hold their noses and vote for her.
The only thing young voters can do to defeat her is to show up en masse for the caucuses and primaries and vote for Sanders. But they’ve never done such a thing before; so, she and her team aren’t worried.