Will the vice-presidential debate between Mike Pence and Tim Kaine live up to expectations and be the biggest snoozefest ever, or will it defy common sense and become the greatest thing since Admiral Stockdale asked “Who am I? Why am I here?”
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BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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I’m for something surrealistic, post-modern and evocative. Been a long time between drinks. The old has crumbled and we’ve barely started clearing away the rubble. Hit me with the future!
If you want a shorter time between drinks, I have two drinking games and seven drinks to go along with them. Every time the moderator says “Governor,” drink!
LOL, “If you start to fall asleep, drink some coffee.” I was hoping for something a bit more ecstatic.
I’m a little nervous about this. That’s probably silly since viewers are likely to be true partisans and it won’t move the meter even a smidge. But I see Tim Kaine as the far better human being but totally uninteresting, almost monotonic, whereas Pence is sort of interesting in his sleaziness and quite adept at speaking in manipulative rational-sounding sound bites. I doubt there’s be a Stockdale or Quayle moment but I could see Pence winning convincingly on points.
Pence is actually a great speaker, I have been pleasantly surprised to learn.
You mean Kaine?
yes, Kaine. Sorry about that.
I hope the debate gets to the point where Kaine can ask Pence if he knows who The Donald owes money to.
Good question but there will be no answer. Truth is that huge write off he took as a tax deduction likely has some debt to banks like Citibank, etc. Still like to have that on the table.
I don’t know enough about Pence to know whether or not he can be baited into further hurting Strongman Trump.
Pence himself doesn’t matter much. It’s whether Kaine can make upset Trump enough to get Trump to tweet.
When Strongman Trump is talkin’, he’s losin’.
To win, it’s pretty clear that Strongman Trump has to be shown to be a whiny sad and weak loser.
The purpose is always the same: to have a Mr. Spock moment where we can look at the contrasting policies without the distracting overlay of the candidates and their overscaled personalities and schticks.
Sometimes it actually works out that way. But more often there’s a mismatch of tone or mendacity that screws it up even more than the top-of-the-ticket debates because we don’t see it coming; we’re not used to the players. So you get either Sarah Palin winking (where the whole thing is so surreal that it accomplishes nothing) or John Edwards and Dick Cheney, where Cheney’s being so breathtakingly dishonest that Edwards can’t even begin to keep on top of his avalanche of lies but Cheney’s low-key delivery and eloquence compared to W. is so disarming that he wins.
In this case it could actually have some positive effect because people are keenly interested, and Kaine is actually a pretty engaging speaker when he wants to be, and Pence is just such a dope (and is reluctant too boot, you can see how little he wants to repeat the bad Trump talking points; he behaves like a workman who’s been promised a big bonus by the foreman if he “volunteers” to clean out the sewage sump). Both of them will have their tiresome “gotcha” quips that they hope will make it into rotation — worst example of all time being Mondale’s “Where’s the beef?” — (“I’m reminded of that commercial”…Sure you are, Walter) but they could actually get somewhere if they manage to stick to “boring” policy contrasts.
It won’t happen, but I’d like to see someone ask Mike Pence this:
A feel good story (and yes it did make me teary-eyed). A great young man and a “protect and serve” LEO. WaPo – This teenager was walking for hours to and from work — until a police stop changed his life
Post-reality journalism; seems Wikileaks isn’t living up to alt-right expectations, because…
“Extremely unusual” is the new black.
Creepy clowns are getting restless.
Back to the future. After a brief hiatus believing that Assange could do for them what the GOP and Trump haven’t, they’re back to hoping he’ll be droned.
Got to give them credit for agility on policy.
Unrelated note; saw the word ‘Trumpanzee’ for the first time today. I wonder how post-election America is going to welcome these folks back to reality. Besides with withering, ironic derision, I mean.
They aren’t interested in reality, and in fact, consider it their enemy.
I like what I’ve seen from Kaine, but I don’t know all there is to know about him. I’ve also seen Pence speak and he’s a seasoned politician, so this won’t be an emotional bonanza like Trump gave. I think it will be important to see Trump’s representative spell things out. After all, Pence is going to be running the country while Trump is out “making America great again”.
Just for the record, I listened to the VP debate with Stockdale on the radio. Didn’t see the TV. I didn’t think he was weird at all. He didn’t say much, but what he did say was in no way unhinged or anything.
I found the spectacle of a distinguished old man having the infirmities of his age shoved into a mocking spotlight profoundly sad. And I find “befuddled Stockdale” humor on the level of “electricity” jokes about Thomas Eagleton.
In 1992, he was a year younger than Trump and a year older than HRC are today. And only six months older than GHWB was at the time. Think about that along with how bad he looked in comparison to Quayle, an empty suit.
Gore was the obvious standout in that debate which is why Democrats assumed that he’d wipe the floor with GWB. Alas, he did too and therefore, didn’t do much debate prep for 2000.
I’m surprised that Trump hasn’t made noises about boycotting Sunday because of how “rigged” it will be. As a devotee of polling, surely it didn’t escape even his attenuated notice how the last debate cost him 5 points in the national averages.
He must be convinced that becoming “nastier than she could ever be” will improve his fortunes. Unlikely, but it should make for entertaining television. And if we can not have bread, let us at least have circus.
Probably best not to try to get inside Trump’s brain because some of his infections may be contagious.
Owen again:
It will certainly be a snooze-fest compared to the gladiatorial spectacle of the ticker-topper shows.
I expect both to acquit themselves reasonably well.
Expect a lot of post-debate commentary along “I’d rather choose between those guys than Clinton & Trump” lines.
A sonnet to share: reader reslez in Lambert’s VP debate live blog that I thought should not be missed:
Two politicians, alike in infamy,
In fair Virginia where we lay our scene,
From Wall Street partisan to Trumpeteer,
Where Syrian blood makes all hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of grasping gasbags takes their place;
Whose misadventured podiums overthrow
Do with their wind inflate their pilots’ strife.
The groaning drivel of debt hysteria,
And the continuance of the voters’ rage,
Which, but their leaders’ end, nought could remove,
Is the ninety minute traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient eyes attend,