Nothing to see here:
At a time when trust in government is at a low point, Trump is actively stoking fears that a core tenet of American democracy is also in peril: that you can trust what happens at the ballot box.
His supporters here said they plan to go to their local precincts to look for illegal immigrants who may attempt to vote. They are worried that Democrats will load up buses of minorities and take them to vote several times in different areas of the city. They’ve heard rumors that boxes of Clinton votes are already waiting somewhere.
And if Trump doesn’t win, some are even openly talking about violent rebellion and assassination, as fantastical and unhinged as that may seem.
“If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”
He then placed a Trump mask on his face and posed for pictures.
Enjoy your weekend.
Well, I’ve been told that Hillary is worse than Trump, that at least Trump is better on trade, that his election will be better for progressives in the long run. And, when I read this article this morning, those were my first thoughts. I mean, imagine how much fun it’d be to have Trump and his friends running the justice department?
Donald Trump is an absolutely garden-variety, cookie-cutter Republican, and his supporters are absolutely regular folks. I don’t know where you came up with the idea that they’re somehow outside the American norm. You should be ashamed of yourself for linking to a newspaper article that slanders these upstanding patriots.
They are just worried about banks, trade, and the environment. It’s obvious.
Yes, I heard an interview with one woman waving a “Hillary for Prison” sign and saying that the thing that finally led her to renounce the Democratic Party and back Trump instead was insufficient investment by the Obama Administration in developing high efficiency solar cells and quieter wind turbines.
Renewables are a huge issue at the local Klavern.
“Donald Trump is an absolutely garden-variety, cookie-cutter Republican…”
This much is true.
Bring it on. Let us have this chaotic Election Day and watch the last vestiges of civil society be destroyed. The media created this monster. I look forward to it rampaging across the country and destroying the credibility of the US all over the world. It’s time to focus on America and let the rest of the world go to hell. If the only way to get the attention of the political and media elites is to create chaos here at home, then so be it. Clinton must not be allowed to believe she is the leader of the free world. She must not be allowed to indulge her terrible foreign policy instincts. She must be the president of a weak and wounded America so she dare not increase our involvement in foreign wars.
what fun would that be? How would you make a living?
Trying to parse these layers of ironic comments is exhausting.
Let me help. War is bad. Clinton will bring more war. The media creates conflict to generate revenue.
Let me help. War is bad. Trump is clearly unhinged, thin skinned, and doesn’t think beyond himself. Trump will brong more war. The media creates conflict to generate revenue.
I don’t know why you are suggesting Trump might win. It really is time to stop pretending that is even a remote possibility.
I see Obama is waging more secret wars…
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has intensified a clandestine war in Somalia over the past year, using Special Operations troops, airstrikes, private contractors and African allies in an escalating campaign against Islamist militants in the anarchic Horn of Africa nation.
Enough. All those nice things you want for the poor, sick, and elderly… All those jobs you want from infrastructure improvements… You can t have it because the president and Congress are more interested in killing people and blowing shit up half way around the world than working on the issues here at home.
Our Nobel Peace Prize winner in action.
But I have every confidence that this is the one that will have a positive outcome! Practice makes perfect, right?
And even if it doesn’t, we have to get lucky eventually. It’s just the law of averages.
President Obama, obviously, has nothing better to do with his time than “killing people and blowing shit up half way around the world than working on the issues here at home”.
Is that your read?
And this part isn’t really surprising either, now is it?
“The strikes have had a mixed record. In March, an American airstrike killed more than 150 Shabab fighters at what military officials called a “graduation ceremony,” one of the single deadliest American airstrikes in any country in recent years. But an airstrike last month killed more than a dozen Somali government soldiers, who were American allies against the Shabab.
Outraged Somali officials said the Americans had been duped by clan rivals and fed bad intelligence, laying bare the complexities of waging a shadow war in Somalia. Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter said the Pentagon was investigating the strike.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/world/africa/obama-somalia-secret-war.html?hpw&rref=world&
action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-wel
l
Incidently, the Battle for Mosul is underway.
There is no candidate with a decent foreign policy. All war all the time. And barely a peep out of the left.
Progressives looking for the apocalypse, my favorite! In the meantime, I would like to go to work, raise my son, live a decent life, and vote occasionally, despite some of the warts our country posses.
It’s not the apocalypse. I want to knock America off its high horse and make it become a country like Switzerland.
That can happen without conflagration. Blowing things up, after all, is a pretty chancy way of getting anywhere close to Sweden.
Blowing things up is the only way to keep the president and the us military from killing people all over the world.
Look how well the French Revolution turned out!
Whose money would the Swiss launder, then?
An essay from one who kinda knows the subject. He thinks either establishments will produce MOAR OF SAME foreign policy.
Remarks prepared for a Middle East Policy Council Capitol Hill Conference, October 13, 2016.
Chas Freeman served as US ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the war to liberate Kuwait and as Assistant Secretary of Defense from 1993-94. He was the editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica entry on “diplomacy” and is the author of five books, including “America’s Misadventures in the Middle East” and “Interesting Times: China, America, and the Shifting Balance of Prestige.” He is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University.
Remarks prepared for a Middle East Policy Council Capitol Hill Conference, October 13, 2016.
Chas Freeman served as US ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the war to liberate Kuwait and as Assistant Secretary of Defense from 1993-94. He was the editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica entry on “diplomacy” and is the author of five books, including “America’s Misadventures in the Middle East” and “Interesting Times: China, America, and the Shifting Balance of Prestige.” He is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University.
https:/lobelog.com/the-middle-east-and-the-next-administration
I’ve noticed that when Clinton defenders encounter a suspicion of third-partyism, they snarl that such people aren’t at risk from the evils of a Trump presidency.
Thanks to the magic of American Exceptionalism, they don’t notice that they themselves – unlike the civilians of the Muslim world – aren’t at risk from the evils of a Clinton presidency.
If you point this out to them, they usually say Trump would be worse – forgetting that the person they’re dealing with doesn’t share their belief that you can’t vote for anyone else.
Some of the more conscientious ones allow that, regrettably, both sides of the mainstream American political “spectrum” do seem to be helplessly addicted to massacring brown people. But withholding a vote from the Democratic candidate would nevertheless be ponies-and-unicorns childishness. We must elect the Democrat and then “hold their feet to the fire”. [Alas, Obama’s feet proved to be quite heat-resistant. I’m not optimistic that Clinton’s will be any more sensitive.]
The general election is no time for wishful thinking! The time to agitate for change is during the primaries. And the DNC will be there to ensure that the process is conducted fairly.
But this is pure sophistry in the end. The argument is always over less evil. Bernie Sanders offers less evil than Clinton. Russia and Assad are massacring brown people right now. Jill stein has argued (then retracted) that we should team up with Russia and massacre brown people. Bernie Sanders agrees with massacring brown people by bombing ISIS. Vladimir Putin and Assad are massacring civilians at a far greater rate than Barack Obama’s bombing campaign of ISIS.
Where is this leading? Nowhere. You either reject lesser of two evils thinking and become a nihilist, or you accept it. Even revolutionaries are in the end a lesser of two evils.
Sanders FP was a big ol’ cipher for me.
So what’s Jill Stein’s? How does she plan to square the circle of our foreign entanglements that conflict with itself? Where is “the interest” that we as “good leftists” need to oppose because that seems to be all The Left cares about. The contradictions are certainly heightened, where leftists are making the argument that state level violence kills fewer people.
Er, did you read the piece? Prolonging the agony with gun sales is not a solution
Yes I read the piece, and it largely is in line with a lot of my own thoughts. The main difference I have with it is that he views Syria as just a proxy war when it really was a revolution, the same with Libya. I did not support our actions in Libya, but too many on the left are treating the people who live there as without any agency themselves.
How many years? And this is where we are? It is Kafka-esque!
International Policy On Libya: Arm Someone And Hope For The Best
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/05/international-policy-on-libya-arm-someone-and-hope-for-the-best
.html
Stein’s claiming that HRC wants a war with Russia and that Trump is better on foreign policy. No mention of the fact that Trump wants to blow up the nuclear deal with Iran – a path that could potentially lead to war.
Yeah. I do make that argument. From the evidence, R2P is an excuse to hire mercs. It haas been totally discredited.
Civil wars DO kill more people than Assad’s state violence. And if ISIS wins, where do secularists go?
I don’t pay any attention to Stein. Seems more a gadfly than anything else.
I’d say that Assad’s state violence is part of the civil war; a driving element even. You can’t treat it as a separate component and claim Assad’s state violence kills fewer people.
Civilian Death Toll
These days ISIS isn’t really gaining territory in Syria. They have always been a secondary concern to Assad/Russia considering that the other jihadist and rebel groups are more invested in directly fighting Assad’s forces rather than building an Islamic state.
Well, NOW it is, certainly. But before we stuck our oar in with R2P and armed the “revolt” (whether by design or by chance), just HOW bloodthirsty had his personal record been? Not his ancestors.
Who DO you think would win a plebicite now?
Sure, but that was five years ago now. We could stop all support of the rebel groups in Syria and there would be no reason that Assad and Russia would not immediately move to crush all remaining resistance. The violence doesn’t stop just because, theoretically, the US is no longer involved.
Also, we are only one of a number of nations that have supported the rebels in Syria. The rebels have had plenty of assistance from other friendly nations. So, we cannot say definitely that the civil war would have been less bloodthirsty absent our role. I think its probably likely that Assad would have prevailed, but at great cost of life.
We could also play the other side of this and say that the civil war would have ended much sooner had Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah not intervened on Assad’s behalf.
With regard to a plebiscite – I have no idea. Not sure it matters. What’s the incentive for anyone to lay down their arms if they fear the other side will eventually be out for blood?
Be careful what you wish for…”We could also play the other side of this and say that the civil war would have ended much sooner had Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah not intervened on Assad’s behalf.”
You might end up like Libya…
Regrets of a Revolution? Libya After Qaddafi
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/regrets-of-a-revolution-libya-after-qaddafi/
I’m not advocating for anything when it comes to Syria but trying to understand the situation requires looking at it from all angles; no matter how controversial.
There’s no way to a clean resolution in any of these conflicts.
Understanding the complexity of the situation is overrated. Better to score points with The Narrative of Western Imperialism.
Gossip on the net…”There have been rumors that the US has promised safe passage for the 9,000 ISIS fighters in Mosul if they relocate to Syria. And then there were claims that a convoy of buses and SUVs carrying ISIS members arrived in Raqqa. I suppose we’ll see in the coming days. If Mosul falls extremely quickly and easily it’ll be clear that the bulk of its defenders simply up and left. I hope the SAA is bolstering its defenses around Palmyra and Deir Ezzor.” (Where the US just accidentally bombed Syrian Regular forces out of position.)
I have seen assertions that the Turks paid off ISIS to move to Deir Ezzor and everyone went along.
I guess we wait and see.
If we’re going to go down this road of thinking then I’d say Mosul is far more important to the WH right now than Assad. Syria is not getting solved anytime soon, if ever, but ISIS forced out of its last major stronghold in Iraq would be a gift of sorts to HRC from the Obama WH. That’s the cynical spin, in any case.
I harbour profoundly unsettling sentiments about much of this; we are blowing past warning signs of domestic violence at a steady clip. I hope Trump supporters prove as dilatory as they seem entitled.
Pfft. They’re all talk, like the Bundys. If a few of them really want to get themselves killed, no loss at all to the world.
Well put.
I’m not sure how much energy a 50-year-old has for confronting the current national security state that shut down Occupy Wall Street and harasses #blacklivesmatter.
If those are his friends and collaborate, that then is a different situation. It’s like Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph not being arrested for what they did.
I’m still betting that the forces of domestic order still like order instead of chaos, regardless of who might be stirring up the chaos.
Tone turns out to be big talk like so much of the Trump reality routine.
I’ve heard the “they’re playacting; what about the Bundys?” argument (upthread) a lot. I hope it’s right. But what happens in a situation where the police and National Guard are broadly in sympathy with the Trumpian world view? In towns where the populace is broadly in sympathy with the Trumpian view? An anecdote–I’m in Oregon, and I wonder how many of you elsewhere know this detail about the Bundys and the occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge: In the incident when a group of occupiers, including the Bundy brothers, were arrested, one of their supporters was shot after eluding arrest, crashing his vehicle, then getting out and reaching for a gun. He eluded arrest because he thought he’d figure out a way to escape and then hook up with the sheriff in a neighboring county. That sheriff shared the Bundys’ views.
Replace ‘Trumpian’ with ‘fascist’ and you basically have the underlying theme of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Prophetic.
You left out the little detail that the guy you’re talking about, LaVoy Finicum, never made it to the sheriff in question, Glenn Palmer, because he was shot and killed by Oregon state troopers. Also, that very few residents in the area supported Bundy. Also that the Oregon State Sheriff’s Association opposes the militias and is extremely critical of Palmer, and so are a lot of people in the community. Also that Palmer is now under investigation by the Oregon DOJ.
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/09/sheriff_palmers_use_of_an_army.html
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/29/voters-overwhelmingly-support-judge-who-stood-bundy-c
rowd
And the Bundy gang are now on trial in federal court.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/oregon_standoff_trial_thursday_4.html
Sorry, here’s that second URL again:
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/29/voters-overwhelmingly-support-judge-who-stood-bundy-c
rowd
For some reason, when I paste it, it makes a separation between the c and the r in the word “crowd”. Just close up the space and the URL will work.
Local police: possible. (See also, the local ASA who’s bringing criminal trespass charges against Amy Goodman, with a rationale that could have been written by Jeff Sessions.) I have a feeling we’re in for a lot of this sort of thing, as pig-headed RWNJs in local power positions throw their weight around, Constitution be damned. Gonna be a lot of work for the ACLU, Center for Constitutional Rights, etc. defending the Amy Goodmans etc. As far as National Guard goes, especially if they’re combat vets, they’re sworn to protect the Constitution (the real one, not the Bundy version), so I wouldn’t spend any calories worrying about that. But we are definitely in for ‘interesting’ times.
Seems like the Republicans are trying to push back the margins a bit — Jack Abrahamoff has crawled out from under his rock to mumble something about Clinton, and I see (via my Facebook feed) that Jake Tapper is performing his usual kabuki.
“Heritage not hate”:
Kinda hard to believe anyone thought it made sense to take issue with that.
Just another peaceful person who is deeply concerned about the economic well being of the working class.
Yep. Definitely about misunderstanding, not at all about pissing off liberals.
Inspired graphics there. Well done.
These people talk big.
Yep. There is no revolution without a leader. An intelligent leader with a very very good plan. The Donald and the people that surround him are idiots. A revolution will fail. Remember what just happened in Turkey? This is the 21st century not 1776.
And this is Trump, not George Washington.
I’m not worried about a revolution. I’m worried about a bunch of random violence. They may figure they can’t get to Obama, but they can get some poor black kid off his bicycle. And if Hillary is too well protected, there’s always the local Planned Parenthood. These people aren’t smart or organized, but they’re armed, and many are insane.
They’re mostly old and stupid.
They can’t even seize a fucking BIRD SANCTUARY.
Paper tiger. 99% of Pennsylvania’s so-called Aryans are too scared to even enter Philly city limits.
Losers. Old people and losers throwing tantrums, all sound and fury.
Yes and no.
They ARE mostly paper tigers and the paper is toilet paper. They are the same people that have been proclaiming “… gunna git my gun and …” for years.
However, the key word is mostly. In and amongst those crazy uncles are Tim McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Patrick Stein and Wade Page.
I have never wavered in my belief that large scale coordinated actions are not likely because the people involved are blowhards who have little or no experience in command and control and/or insurrection. The Bundy’s are a prime example of no command and control and no logistics.
However, small groups of 1, 2, and 3? Sure. Those fall under the heading of “lone wolf” are to be cautious of. However, it brings to mind an old Wobbly proverb:
When 3 men plot revolution, one is a fool and two are police agents
Peckerheaded idiots like Dan Bowman are the epitome of a Trump supporter. He doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about. I’m supposed to respect a fellow citizens who does not even know the mechanisms of process he wants to observe? No one can waltz into the polling site and start harassing voters. Poll watchers are credentialed by the political parties to ensure that no one disrupts the place. Without approved credentials from a political party you will get your ass thrown out.
For the past eight federal elections my wife and I have been credentialed poll watchers for the Democratic Party. We had to take a course on the various rights and privileges of the polling place, and we have a three-ring binder stuffed with processes and protocols in case of something happens. Usually, we have been assigned to minority polling sites because those are the places jagoffs like Dannie Bowman are likely to appear to harass voters.
In 16 years we have yet to have a problem, basically because both party’s approved poll watchers are usually lawyers themselves. HOWEVER, this time because of the remarks from people like Dannie, my wife and I are taking our pistols (to be left in our truck)….. just in case…..
And that is what disgusts me. To protect myself from just stupid assholes I have to think like them and prepare myself to defend myself…. at a polling place! To paraphrase Pogo, “we have met the enemy and become just like it.”
Many thanks to you and your wife for the vital work you’re doing.
Yeah basically. They will sure as fuck have their guns so you need to be prepared to defend yourself.
Gunplay at a polling place? what a horrifying thought. In a national Presidential election, I wonder if there’s anything proactive the Feds can do to keep polling places safe; armed civilian goons in a room where people are voting clearly fosters an atmosphere of intimidation (to say the least). I’d favor “no election materials OR guns within 100ft of polling place”, but if the local election officials are to weak or overwhelmed to act, & haven’t already gamed this stuff out, uh-oh.
Yeah, what is being done so far us legal under state laws but may run afowl of federal law since its clearly racial intimidation. I’d put some national guard troops outside polling places (like 2-3) especially in minority precints.
A sincere thanks for your work!
Off topic, but “I’m supposed to respect a fellow citizens who does not even know the mechanisms of process he wants to observe?”
Is actually a pretty concise explanation of quantum mechanics 😉
I’m waiting for Putin and Le Pen to ask the UN to send in election monitors to certify the results.
It’s started to become very difficult to see where the stupidity ends and the trolling starts with these morans.
Whats wrong with the UN sending in monitors? Id welcome such a move.
Just as a point of interest, the Republican HQ in Hillsborough, NC was firebombed within the last day with a little graffiti on the side. Comments are mixed as to whether it was local Dem figures or Trump supporters. I’m a little skeptical about the attribution.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article108628192.html#emlnl=Breaking_N
ews_Alerts