If we want to do anything about Donald Trump’s fascist Muslim ban other than helplessly bleat in impotent protest, we’re going to have to find Republicans who agree with us that it is a moral outrage that violates sacred tenets of our country and puts our national security at risk. It may be difficult to find Republican officeholders in Congress who will join us at the outset, but if you remember what I wrote about former Senator Bob Bennett of Utah at the time of his death, you’ll understand why I think the first place to look for political allies is with the Mormons.
Trump will win this battle if it remains a partisan fight for the simple reason that he has the people with him, or enough of them anyway to sustain his position and likely profit from it. He will gladly take this fight to the ballot box, and if it comes down to him wanting to keep Muslims out and protect us from terrorism and Democrats wanting the opposite, this ban will remain in effect and Trump will grow stronger.
Trump doesn’t have the Mormons with him on this issue, however. And they are the strongest and most consequential allies I can identify at the moment. There are many cosmopolitan Republicans, including veterans of the State Department, who will fight with us, but they are scattered and too few in number to help much.
It’s critical that this not be seen as Democrat vs. Republican brawl. Any Republican who will speak out is more valuable than a hundred Democrats. And if Mormons in Congress are going to listen, they are going to listen to their own brethren. They do not care what a bunch of liberals think, and are reflexively inclined to disagree with them and oppose them.
Organizing this fight will require an open mind about working with folks you haven’t worked with in the past.
This is going to be true about the Trump presidency in general, but it’s particularly clear in this case.
Well, considering that Utah voted for Trump in overwhelming numbers, and that they have their own racist
past, I would not count on them to do what’s right in this case.
They voted for Trump knowing what he is, probably better than most republicans, so to me that means they hate the same people he hates.
The Washington politicians who are Mormon will talk big, but they know the people back in Utah and Arizona agree with Trump..
So nothing will come of it. Add to that, that Trump will deliver 95% of what they want policy-wise, and they go along.
The Bundy boys probably speak for most Mormons better than and politician.
.
.
55% of voters in Utah voted against Trump.
70% of Mormons voted for republicans on the ticket…no matter what party they listed themselves as. Those candidates agree with Trump probably 90% of the time. I understand using every weapon against Trump, but a certain reality needs to be faced on Trump voters and what they believe. Those voters would not have voted for Clinton in any large numbers…they would have voted for the guy with the ‘R’ next to his name. Because they agree with him more than they do with Clinton when it comes to inclusiveness.
With all of Trump’s rhetoric and irrational behavior, it’s easy to forget or dismiss that he is really an ordinary republican
Would Paul or Cruz really be any different? No.
.
Utah gave Trump the lowest percentage of the vote of any State that Orange Mussolini won. So I’m with BooMan here, both on the merits of this specific case and the general point that people in our Movement will have to become more comfortable in getting off their purity ponies when we organize on some issues.
Many members of this community are demanding that we drop our concerns and ignore evidence of the racism exposed by many in the white working class by the 2016 Presidential campaign and the Obama Presidency. I’m unwilling to ignore the plentiful evidence of that racism, but I am smart enough to organize phone bank volunteers to avoid the subject when talking to white swing state voters, as we did this week to fight to preserve the Affordable Care Act.
Evan McMullin is certainly a strong voice.
LOL!! Stop with the McMullin bullshit. He was at the “March for Life” yesterday. He proudly tweeted out a picture from it. He’s not your friend. He’ll stab you in the back at the first opportunity. And he’s CIA to boot. He came in 3rd place in Utah, for cryin’ out loud. Bernie Sanders got more write-in votes in CA for the general election. Hell, Gloria La Riva got more votes in CA than McMullin did. McMullin is a grifter whose 15 minutes of fame will soon be up.
Democratic politics is all about working with people you don’t agree with and often with people you despise. FDR passed the New Deal with Southern segregationists. Lincoln won the civil war coddling unionist slaveowners. The French Republicans finally made democracy stick working with Adolphe Thiers, who ordered the Communards to be butchered. The pure are never a majority.
A recent example of how things go wrong was when Erdogan lost the parliamentary elections in 2015. But the opposition parties couldn’t work together, and Erdogan won the next election, and now look how things are. Do you really prefer living in Trumpistan to working with McMullin?
I think a lot of people on this thread are misconstruing the issue, at least the way Booman was thinking of it. Trump’s order is not only an immigration issue, but also a violation of the equal protection clause (14th amendment), singling out all members of a particular religion simply because they belong to that religion.
The Mormons are indeed historically sensitive on that issue. So Booman’s argument makes sense.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865643265/LDS-Church-releases-statement-on-religious-freedom-as-D
onald-Trumps-Muslim-controversy-swirls.html
~Bibi Netanyahu
So who’s in Trump’s corner? Fascists in India, fascists in Russia, fascists in Europe, and fascists of Israel. A new world order made and constructed with these leaders is going to mean death.
So who’s in Trump’s corner? Fascists in India, fascists in Russia, fascists in Europe, and fascists of Israel.
Don’t forget who was making kissy-face with both Netanyahu and Modi. The head cheese of CAP. Your ‘progressive” think tank.
Phil you’re just getting annoying now. Tulsi Gabbard loves her some Modi and Assad. Yet the “left” is defending her trip. on our way to the gulags you can tell me all about Obama’s war crimes. Until then you’re just noise.
Did I say anything about Gabbard? I was hip to her long before most people here had even heard of it. Why? Because I read Howie Klein’s blog. But this is about someone who was quite possibly going to be HRC’s CoS, though leaks after the election put that in doubt. Wonder if her itchy Twitter finger squashed that. Hmmm!!
Gabbard is young — not a mature politician. She could still go either way. Citizens need to watch as politicians develop; then, they would have fewer surprises. Like Joementum. It’s one reason why I don’t much care for young and inexperienced politicians running for high office. They’re too malleable and/or able to hide their cards.
Well, young as a pol, but not in life experience. And the downside of mature pols, one of them, is how frequently they get sucked into the establishment status quo way of doing things — especially in losing their will to challenge TPTB — the longer they hang around.
She’s someone I’m watching and find intriguing. I like outspoken, with a bit of an independent streak from the party line. Plenty of time before 2020 to let things unfold and see how she develops as a political leader. Too early to endorse.
And, contra those who accuse her of being an islamophobe, she did come out clearly against this latest anti-Muslim directive from Trump.
I haven’t heard that Gabbard disavowed Modi and that bunch. I do wonder why Sanders accepted her endorsement. Maybe because she was the only Senator willing to endorse him? No idea. But then no one deserves a free pass.
Being the first Hindu in Congress, and Modi being Hindu, it’s natural she would be at least somewhat sympathetic, up to a point. And any suggestions of islamophobia in a Hindu v Muslim manner are a bit of a stretch.
And a committed islamophobe likely wouldn’t have been able to pull off meeting face-to-face with dozens of Muslims on her recent Syria visit. With her position against US-driven regime change wars in Islamic countries, it would appear that she’s more interested in saving Muslim lives rather than killing them or making them refugees.
As for Bernie, hopefully he holds to a similar view that we should be meeting with those abroad we may not agree with or fully endorse (Obama’s wise position vs Hillary in the 2008 primaries), nor should there be political purity tests before an endorsement is accepted.
Btw, she’s a member of the US House, not a senator.
Btw, she’s a member of the US House, not a senator.
Thanks!! I thought she moved up recently. Guess not. I don’t know what to make of her trip to Syria. I have no idea who paid for it, and I’m not going to speculate. We’ll learn more as time goes on I hope.
That IS odd. Modi is one serious neoliberal, and Assad got in trouble with his people over his moves in that direction.
She must be a Sanders supporter for non-economic reasons.
Dunno about Modi, but it’s a bit McCarthyite to slam a rep for sitting down for a talk with a head of govt who happens not to meet with the approval of our neocon/liberal interventionist nat’l security state. The situation with anyone who fails to toe the hardline state propaganda about Putin is similar.
I’ll give her huge credit a) for resigning from the DNC leadership position during the primaries after seeing how they operated unfairly to Bernie (whom she endorsed and campaigned for prominently) and b) for courageously visiting Syria to get a close up understanding, actually talking to actual Syrian people on the ground, as she also used the opportunity to publicize her stance against US-driven regime change wars and to denounce the way our govt under Obama militarily backed forces in alignment with terrorists.
Meanwhile most Dems in congress have cowered on Syria, which was heading for an ISIS takeover of Damascus, thanks mostly to us and Obama’s obsession with removing Assad, until Russia stepped in.
Leftists standing with dictators aided by fascists over revolutionaries — they’re all “ISIS” to you. Islamophobia rampant on the left. Make no mistake: Obama is partially responsible for the refugee crisis of Syria, but it is Assad and Putin who are most responsible.
Nonsense.
No? So what happens when Trump starts shooting demonstrators in the street?
NBC – Pelosi shrugs off Bush’s criticism, meets Assad.
You’d be hard pressed to find a politician that hasn’t stood with dictators aided by fascists. Authentic revolutionaries in such countries are few and far between.
Putin didn’t start anything in Syria, but you’re not letting facts get in your way on this topic.
As if the current environment is at all the same, Marie. As if time is static and standing still. The record is clear on this blog: when Obama came to power I called for normalizing relations with Iran and even Syria.
Instead Obama adopted the GWB policy on Syria: regime change. Covert and using our good friends in KSA and Qatar. Seems to me that you are one of the people that has changed.
Nope. I applauded when Mubarak stepped down. I wanted Gaddafi to do the same. Same with Syria. Same with Tunisia. Same with Bahrain. I supported the people on the ground when it was happening. Gaddafi unfortunately did not want to go and had no intention of going. I didn’t support intervening at that moment because the evidence available did not suggest an imminent genocide as reported. But as the days go by, I’m still not sure I was right on that. In fact part of me thinks I was wrong.
The same applies to Syria. What ended up happening is the worst of all worlds and it’s because of imperialism of US, Russia, and Iran. If Assad did what Mubarak did, the war would not have happened. Of course, now Sisi is in charge and the elected president sits in jail. Not that we supported this happening, but Sisi is certainly preferable to empire than Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.
Imperialist Iran? What countries has it invaded and appropriated for itself in the past sixty years? Even a stretch to lay that word on Russia considering that all the countries that became independent with the break up of the USSR. How many US satellites has the US withdrawn from in the past fifty years?
Who the hell are we to decide and effect regime change anywhere we want? Americans aren’t even humane. And where did you get the idea that this country overthrows dictators? Well, except when a US preferred dictator is waiting in the wings.
Global Warfare: “We’re going to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran..”
Not sure why Somalia made the list; it’s not as if there is anything to take over. Sudan has oil.
Lebanon has been a bit of a sticky wicket — not that KSA through AQ hasn’t tried. Guess they decided that the road to Tehran doesn’t have to start in Lebanon before going through Syria. Iraq sort of didn’t work out as the superhighway to Iran.
There aren’t any gulags that are taking travellers, or boarders, or pensioners, or whatever you and Phil are, so it’s hard to believe you. Not impossible, just, … are you getting a really good deal on a gulag somewhere and not telling us? Come on….share.
CAP ? College of American Pathologists ? Civil Air Patrol ? Crappy Anal Pussylickers ?
Are those progressive “think tanks”? CAP, in this case, equals Center for American Progress.
What about the Citizens to Abolish Pussylicking? Have you seen the protests at those places? All these great looking chicks, decked out, with signs reading “You wouldn’t LICK THIS? Get a life!”
Agree. If you’re going to use an acronym without intentionally being confusing (or arrogant), do it like this: Center for American Progress (CAP) the first time you mention it. Your assumption that we know what you mean is not just part of the problem, it’s the whole problem and you are the enemy.
with you on pretty much anything, but you’ve stumbled onto something where I do: tha’d be your first sentence . . . only (the second is idiotic/nonsensical).
Undefined-acronym abuse is indeed rampant here, indeed annoying, and indeed arrogant (essentially says “everybody who’s anybody worth bothering with already knows what this means; because they hang out in the same places with me and the rest of the cool kids, where it’s common knowledge/standard usage”). You provide the exactly correct remedy for it (required in many publications, e.g., scientific journals, and rightly so). I’ve raised exactly the same objection myself more than once.
Prediction: your objection will have precisely the same salutary effect that mine did; i.e., none.
Such a swell gal.
Her October 12, 2011 email is a gem.
Maybe Hillary should have listened to Tanden and channeled Wolfowitz and Trump. Might have been good for another fifty thousand votes for her in a few key states.
Wow.
“We have a giant deficit…..”
Fucking unbelievable. Someday, perhaps long after I and all here are gone, the democratic party will begin to understand the pure bullshit of that statement and the people who utter it.
It’s the central tenet of their religion. Pay-Go. So proud of reducing deficits. All of them.
While I can see the merits of enlisting Mormons for the “cause”, in a “enemy of my enemy” sort of way, aren’t these the same people who helped finance California’s Proposition 8? A.K.A. the people of Utah interfering with the legal process of the people of California? I’m not sure that’s the kind of allies we need. And regardless of any efforts on the Democrat’s part to avoid the appearance of partisanship, the Republicans will be more than happy to peddle it as such.
To be honest, I see a replay in the works similar to how Dubya voters vanished into the woodwork once that administration began to unravel. There was a period toward the end where it was difficult to find anyone who would admit voting for him. There will be a line crossed that gets even the most devout Trumpster’s attention, sooner or later. And the way president* Trump is going it’s going to be sooner.
They disappeared into the woodwork until they got the chance to vote for another idiot, then they reappeared.
Have you had the same experience with Trump voters as myself and my wife? They are strutting around…bragging and proud that someone finally represents THEM. It’s amazing. The world is laughing at us through their tears…and Trump voters are proud!
It really is what someone here said, he hates the same people they do.
.
Most of my YUGELY multicultural staff consists of Trump voters. Yeah, some of them are still doing what you say (in particular, the white males), but I’m hearing a bit of “I used to support Trump” coming from the more reasonable ones, especially the recent immigrants. And by recent I mean came here as children. I have staff of Mexican and Cuban descent, and I believe they’re starting to come around.
To add to this mix, my African American staff were never in his corner. We have some interesting staff meeting discussions, which I try to have at the end of each work day to discuss the day’s assignments. There is some value in keeping us all talking rather than turning our backs on each other.
The irony with the “world is laughing at us” thing is that is the very thing Trump ran on. It would be funny if it wasn’t so damned tragic.
Yes on what Trump ran on, mores the pity.
And it’s why I have more of a ‘fuck ’em’ attitude. They should have learned the lesson from Bush, but they did not. Fuck ’em.
All supposedly religious groups in particular. Fuck ’em. One thing that has been exposed beyond all disguising is the moral bankruptcy of religious squawkers. The louder they squawk, the less likely they are to follow their so called principles. Their religious posing is just that..a facade to cover their hatred.
The Mormons won’t do shit. Oh, they’ll talk shit for sure…but the number one rule in life is,
Never listen to what a person says..watch what they do, because their actions are who they really are.
Fuck ’em.
.
“Fuck em.”
Yeah I hear ya. I was saying “fuck ’em” back when they voted Reagan into office, but I really don’t think that accomplishes anything. They will never see things like we see them, they didn’t prior to the Civil War, they didn’t in the 60’s civil rights era, and they won’t see it now.
Our challenge is to reach these folks on a level they can relate to, because they are as much victims of the propaganda as anyone else. The money-power wants the citizenry stupid, so let’s not facilitate that in any way.
For myself, I’m not looking to accomplish anything. I’ll go to work, show respect to my hard working co-workers, and immerse myself in my hobbies in my spare time..and try to move that supertanker of an organization just a degree or two to the left.
To the rest?
.
It’s also the case that we apparently can’t win without them.
There are plenty of Mormons in almost all the Western States, including California. The Yes on 8 campaign parachuted plenty of money in from Church organizations in Utah and other States, sure, but a lot of the money was raised in California and the physical organizing for phone banks and precinct walks were led by LDS churches in California.
I live here in California, but I can tell you that I and many of my colleagues are helping support organizing in other States, financially and strategically. That does not mean I am “interfering with the legal process in other States”; it means that I am exercising my vested interest in political outcomes in the United States.
If Mormons will join us in defending the civil rights of Muslims and others, I will enthusiastically organize with them and avoid engaging them on their nauseating views re. the civil rights of women.
Oh, no worries that the Mormons will join you in protecting the civil rights of Mormons.
.
I concede the point about Prop. 8, but my point still stands that even if joined by the Mormons, it’s not going to stop Republicans from claiming the opposition is simply a partisan effort. After all, the Trump team is saying all the media is the “opposition party”. See also: reality has a liberal bias…
Where is the Democratic leadership??? They should immediately shut down the Senate, deny all UC requests, place holds on all Executive Branch nominees, until these illegal and unconstitutional EOs are rescinded.
Then we can worry about Mormons.
Good question. I’ve wondered for weeks now WTF the party will do. Still waiting.
It looks like the ACLU took some action and got a stay for the people in transit. Now about Pelosi and Schumer….
Just what the doctor ordered.
An alliance with Romneyville.
Please!!!
AG
There are over a million Mormons in Mexico. The donald has already made his first misstep. How many more will they take before they rise up? Note every exec order opens a space for someone to jump into.
This issue is right in Trump’s wheelhouse.
God forbid we look at some fucking data before we make shit up, but:
Among the 13% in Utah who said immigration was the most important issue, Trump won 62%. It was on this issue that McMullin did worst on (only 9% versus 27% for Clinton).
I see no evidence from the data to believe that there is more resistance to Trump in Utah on immigration than is usual.
Booman’s search for a rational Republican remains as fruitless as ever. Honestly Booman wrote several pieces about winning Utah that were borderline delusional.
Historically being pro-refugee is unpopular.
Sometimes you just have to fight because it is right. That is the case here – it is hard to overstate my anger over this issue.
There is no magic bullet. No GOP group you are likely to pick off (though a better candidate might be the Cubans in Miami).
We simply have to win this argument, and we have to engage with the knowledge that we have not to date won this argument with the American public.
To my mind it is a matter of humanizing the stories of these people, and of rebutting the lies told about them.
In the hopes that doing so changes hearts.
It is unlikely to work, but sometimes you have to make arguments because morality compels it and the politics be damned.
I actually think it’s worth a try with Mormons, with anybody. I think Booman’s main point of finding allies is important because this is one of the ways you change hearts, but I also agree that you have to do some things even if you might not win and appreciate you saying it.
FDR for instance should have done a lot more to save the Jews of Europe. Cleaned house at State, home of so many hardcore anti-semites, then gone to the people on radio to speak about doing the right thing. That St Louis incident was awful, and still leaves a black mark on our history today, as does the way our govt failed to act when they had clear evidence that the Holocaust was happening.
But Roosevelt didn’t even try. Some say it was because, given his upbringing and class attitudes of the time, he didn’t feel empathy but rather annoyance. Apparently Eleanor evolved from her prior (mild) anti-semitism, but she failed to move her husband.
Yeah, he should have said, let’s go kick some German white ass with the commies and save the Jews. And told Martin Dies to take a hike. It’s not as if FDR didn’t have overt anti-Semites on his case for his numerous appointments of Jews to his administration. And the appetite among Americans for another major war in Europe was very low at that time. Was HUAC going after communists of Jews?
Nobody Had to Ask Her.
So now it begins. Iran will not allow US citizens to enter. Anyone want to bet on this shit spreading?
i can’t figure out if Trump does not realize he will get countermeasures, or he believes the countermeasures will have minuscule effect, or he does not care and does it for domestic political gain.
I assume the last, because ‘Meism’ seems to be his overwhelming philosophy.
He’s going to drive us into the ground.
.
He figures it makes him look strong for the yahoos.
The Guardian – Federal judge stays deportations under Trump Muslim country travel ban
Will Trump lose his sheet over this?
A little good news for a change. Lose his sheet, eh? Nah it will just make him whiter.
Only applies to those who land on US soil. The petition makes at least 5 independent arguments against returning the detainees – I am unclear which was dispositive.
There will be more litigation I am sure, and I may be a part of some of it at some level.
The fact this extends to Green Card Holders is mind blowing and there obviously will be lawsuits. It does appear that green card holders are being told to contact their consulate, and some are being admitted.
Aside from the outrage it shows incompetence. The fact that no lead time was given for green card holders to comply with the new process is just stupid even if you agree with the process.
Trump’s Executive Disorder. May apply to all of them that’s he’s issued so far. Repeat it often enough that he’ll see/hear it, lose his sheet, and tweet something stupid in response.
Well, this is quite the explanation for this weekend’s green card policy:
“…Friday night, DHS arrived at the legal interpretation that the executive order restrictions applying to seven countries — Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Yemen — did not apply to people with lawful permanent residence, generally referred to as green card holders.
The White House overruled that guidance overnight, according to officials familiar with the rollout. That order came from the President’s inner circle, led by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon. Their decision held that, on a case by case basis, DHS could allow green card holders to enter the US.
There had been some debate whether green card holders should be even allowed to board international flights. It was decided by the Department of Homeland Security they could fly to the US and would be considered on a case-by-case basis after passing a secondary screening.
But the guidance sent to airlines on Friday night, obtained by CNN, said clearly, “lawful permanent residents are not included and may continue to travel to the USA.”
As of Saturday afternoon, Customs and Border Protection continued to issue the same guidance to airlines as it did Friday, telling airlines that fly to the US that green card holders can board planes to the US but they may get extra scrutiny on arrival, according to an airline official.
Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch, according to a source familiar with the process.
White House officials disputed that Sunday morning, saying that OLC signed off and agency review was performed.
A source said the creation of the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that’s typically overseen by the National Security Council.
Separately, a person familiar with the matter said career officials in charge of enforcing the executive order were not fully briefed on the specifics until Friday. The officials were caught off guard by some of the specifics and raised questions about how to handle the new banned passengers on US-bound planes.”
And this morning the White House is claiming that the whole process rolled out “seamlessly” and has been a huge success. Folks, we’re watching calculated chaos and the Big Lie in action.
The Mormons? It’s only 25 years or so since they let the blahs have full rights in the Boy Scouts. They’re not gettable. Period.
Sorry, that’s as laughable as Hillary’s expected landslide win.
Just win back the margin in PA, MI, and WI (if a state that voted for Scott Walker 3x is even up for grabs).
Let’s try finding some candidates under 70 for 2018 and 2020.
The party needs new blood not some wild goose chase after an religious group that thinks of civil rights as limited to white heterosexuals, no matter if their hair is blonde, sandy blonde, light brown or medium brown, even if they don’t have more than one sister wife.
This is how religious and ethnic solidarity is done:
“Off the Moral Cliff
Trump’s demonizing of refugees and immigrants puts us on the wrong side of history.
By Steven Goldstein | Opinion Contributor
Jan. 27, 2017, at 1:00 p.m.
This week, President Donald Trump is issuing orders to prevent Mexicans and Muslims from entering America. He’s targeting Mexicans through his infamous wall, and Muslims through a ban that will largely affect Muslim refugees. Through his one-two punch to decency, the president has brought our nation to one of the most tragic junctures in its history. He is retracting the promise of American freedom to an extent we have not seen from a president since Franklin Roosevelt forced Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II.
It’s enough to make the Statue of Liberty weep. Not only do the president’s executive orders undermine the bipartisan work of his predecessors, but they also erode the American dream. We at the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, the U.S. organization that works for the kinder and fairer world of which Anne Frank dreamed, are disgusted. Trump is beyond the wrong side of history. He is driving our nation off a moral cliff…
…When the United States accepts refugees from countries with a significant Muslim population, we undermine the anti-American hatred that underlies Islamic State group recruitment. Closing America’s door to Syrian refugees, therefore, is not only a heartless hiccup in our nation’s history, it also validates Islamic State group propaganda, advances the group’s agenda and drives refugees back into the arms of dangerous terrorists. By turning away Syrian refugees, Trump is plunging America into a national security nightmare…
..Now let’s turn to Mexican immigrants. Has Trump forgotten that immigrants built America? Did he build Trump Tower without immigrants and without American workers who descended from immigrants?
We can only imagine the answer. When the president finds his back pushed up against a wall by facts, he builds another wall of alternative facts. But the real facts don’t support his construction of a Mexican border wall at all…
…Mr. President, if you insist on spending billions of taxpayer dollars to turn away refugees and immigrants, you will commit one of the biggest blunders in American history. We’ve heard you say a nation is not a nation without borders. But a nation is also not a nation without compassion and a smart national security policy. Right now, you’re coming up short on both.”
Mushy statements from Utah’s Senators:
https://twitter.com/SenOrrinHatch/status/825534216645509121
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4875807-155/mike-lee-critical-of-a-muslim
Real moral clarity there. Trump can stomp right over these piddling reservations at the moment. The incompetency of the EO’s execution may stiffen the Senators’ spines a bit.
[cringes] Jeff Flake
Hmm. It’s a good thought. Consolidate a chunk of the map for the Democratic Party from California to New Mexico, and eventually Texas as well.
I suppose that will happen eventually anyway, with or without the Mormons. But like others have said, older Mormons, their establishment, is as racist, homophobic, and xenophobic as the deep south.
Mormons are gettable on a list of other progressive issues surely, but probably not immigration. I don’t think most white US citizens (of which Mormons are a pretty good microcosm it goes without saying) really care about this any more than they care about, oh, say, abortion rights for women.
Democrats should simply refocus on the liberal economic platform that brought them to power under Roosevelt 80 years ago and that kept them in power right through Reagan. Pretty sure that’s something a majority of voters (of all races and religious persuasions) agrees on.
Who doesn’t love Mormons? I think they’re beautiful people, even the kinky ones. But they’re dumber than a box of rocks and no more likely than any other Christian sect to develop any time soon.
Hm. My Mormon friends are liberal Democrats, but please don’t let that interfere with all the anti-LDS rants here.
Interesting to see how Booman’s suggestion was hijacked and made another bash-Hillary thread, too.
Would you expect anything else from the hijackers?
‘Cause you sure sound like her.
Your Mormon liberal Democratic friends failed to vote last November. They may be friendly as friends can get but they don’t vote for Democratic candidates. Whatever you assumed.
Oh, they most assuredly did vote Democrat. They attended Democratic caucuses in Washington state.
Those of us who live in the West have had Mormon neighbors, coworkers and friends all our lives. I had to unlearn anti-Mormon prejudice passed on to me as a kid. Sort of mysterious to me why folks denouncing a de facto Muslim ban think it’s OK to repeat anti-LDS slurs.
Booman should not regard Mormons as monolithic…I doubt he actually does, but his wording tends in that direction.
By “interesting” I assume you mean “The usual axe grinders, aka Our Progressive Betters, looking for their usual whetstone”.
You notice how little they have to say when they can’t manage to twist the conversation over to their usual punching bags?
You notice how little they have to say, even when they do?
Ayup.