Noah Feldman makes many points worth considering, but he’s wrong in the overall point he’s trying to make. Most glaringly, the headline of his piece is incorrect, as Trump’s accusations that President Obama illegally spied on him don’t, in any direct way, make it even an iota more likely that he will be impeached. More concerning, though, is the substance of his argument which ironically has the side effect of trivializing the constitutional crisis we’re experiencing in this country at the moment.
The most concise way of summarizing Feldman’s argument is that he believes that the president of the United States has an extraordinary responsibility to watch what he says because of the unique power of his words. So, there’s a special standard that applies to the president, perhaps less so to other elected officials and political officers, and not at all to ordinary citizens.
He puts it best when he says the following, although (as I’ve already noted) there is a sense in which his argument depends on treating the president’s statements asymmetrically:
Given how great the executive’s power is, accusations by the president can’t be treated asymmetrically. If the alleged action would be impeachable if true, so must be the allegation if false. Anything else would give the president the power to distort democracy by calling his opponents criminals without ever having to prove it.
Let me just put it this way. There are very compelling reasons why Donald Trump should be removed from power as soon as it is humanly possible to do so, but it’s not because he went on an incoherent Tweet-rant last weekend. At most, his latest tantrum is just one small piece of additional evidence that the president isn’t minimally competent mentally to fulfill the duties of his office. But the evidence isn’t based on the fact that his allegations are almost certainly false or that they amount to libel or that they constitute some abuse of office. It’s based on the fact that he simply doesn’t have the kind of brain function that we can entrust with taking care of our country’s interests and security.
Sure, it’s true that a sitting president shouldn’t accuse a former president of a crime that they did not commit. But what’s far more concerning for the well-being of our people and the world is that the president doesn’t understand that he can pick up the phone and discover whether he was actually put under surveillance. He can discover quite quickly whether he or his offices or his associates were investigated as part of a criminal or counterintelligence investigation, and whether those investigations are ongoing. He can discover whether warrants were issued by the FISA court or any other court to tap his phones or read his emails. Yet, it didn’t occur to Trump to avail himself of these powers because he doesn’t understand his powers or the system he is supposed to be running.
Similarly, he doesn’t understand why his actions constitute a rolling violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution. He sees many of his nominees dropping out because they can’t disentangle their business interests sufficiently to meet the legal and ethical requirements of the office they were supposed to hold, but he doesn’t see how he’s failing to meet those same legal and ethical standards.
You can go down a long list of things he doesn’t understand that amount to threats to our rights and our well-being. He couldn’t anticipate that his travel ban would run afoul of First Amendment protections against preferencing one religion over another. He doesn’t know that stealing Iraq’s oil would be a war crime, as would be ordering the assassination of people for no crime greater than being related to an alleged terrorist.
There was a period of time when it was at least in doubt whether Trump was a genuine Birther or just a cynical one using the slander as a shrewd ploy to win political support from the far right. That debate should be settled now that we see him in office embracing theories concocted in the fever swamps of Breitbart and the Alex Jones InfoWars radio show. He isn’t sophisticated enough to understand the difference between mercenary partisan propaganda and actual news reporting. This is why he repeats things like the story that New Jersey muslims were celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers and that millions of non-citizens (all) voting for Clinton cost him the popular vote.
He doesn’t just repeat these stories that are intended to deceive the audience and enrich the author, but he asks that the government actively investigate them.
And this is the stuff that actually does move Trump closer to being removed from office. Because, you can be sure that many, many Republicans are more than perturbed that they have to constantly apologize for or try to rationalize the president’s insupportable statements and theories. They know he’s a dangerous loose cannon. They know he can’t be trusted or even reasoned with. And they want to live to see their grandchildren.
There seems to be push back when anyone accuses the president of having a mental disorder or disability, as if to say so is to suggest that people with mental problems can’t be trusted to take positions of responsibility. People say it’s wrong to try to diagnose a person without having the proper credentials or the opportunity to closely interact with them as a patient.
This is taking things too far when it comes to the president of the United States who commands enough radioactivity to end sentient life on Earth. You don’t want me to say that the president has narcissistic personality disorder and is clearly insane?
Fine, how about this? It’s a bad idea to hand your three year old a loaded handgun. Saying so is not to disrespect three year olds or to dismiss all the wonderful things they’re capable of doing. If you hand your three year old a handgun and he pulls the trigger and kills someone, that’s entirely your fault. And if your see a three year old walking around with a loaded handgun, your responsibility is to immediately disarm them.
That’s the best analogy for our current situation. And it would be true even if the president were not ethically compromised beyond belief. It would be true even if he were not undermining the European Union, demoralizing NATO, and seemingly more interested in furthering Vladimir Putin’s foreign policy goals than the strength and unity of the West.
I don’t know if Trump can make it four years in office. Maybe we’re all insane, too, and we’ll give him a second term in office. I’m not even sure that impeachment is the appropriate remedy. I think it would be more suitable to use the Section 4 of the 25th Amendment:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
There’s a process provided for appeal of that decision, and Trump could avail himself of it:
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
I think this is a more appropriate thing to debate than whether any particular set of outrages and moral quagmires that Trump presents amounts (or doesn’t amount) to a “high crime” or “misdemeanor.”
First of all, in the impeachment process, an impeachable offense is whatever the House of Representatives says it is. We can expect that they won’t abuse this process, but I don’t feel great about how it was used against either Andrew Johnson or Bill Clinton. I think there were better cases to be made against both Ronald Reagan (Iran-Contra) and George W. Bush (a long list). I’d rather not try to decide which of Trump’s sins amount to sin equal to or greater than covering up adultery with an intern.
Far better to get to the heart of the matter, which isn’t that he’s said this or that outrageous and irresponsible thing. The heart of that matter is that he’s got an awfully powerful loaded weapon and his toddling around with it pointed at all our heads.
It is delusional to think a GOP House and Senate will do anything of the sort.
The heart of the matter is that people who should no better are suggesting that Trump is leaving before 2021.
Meanwhile…
I notice that you attack anything but the merits of what I’m saying.
Because I do not take someone who invokes the 25th Amendment seriously.
I do not take pieces on impeachment seriously.
No, you don’t take Donald Trump seriously.
Shorter fladem: “You don’t devote enough column space on YOUR blog to what I think is important so you are not serious.”
More like, “If I accept the premise that Trump is going to get us all killed, then I have to contemplate how committed I was to preventing him from becoming president.”
That’s pretty clarifying. If you think a nuclear exchange would or wouldn’t happen under Trump your reaction is going to be quite different.
Infallible people don’t contemplate. Infallible members of Our Progressive Betters (that would be all of them) had no commitment whatsoever to prevent him from becoming president. Like the Greens, you can always count on them on doing what’s best for the modern Republican party.
Here’s one guy that tried very hard. Actually campaigned in Michigan.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/06/donald-trump-michigan-bernie-sanders-clinton-campaig
n
Fixed the URL:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/06/donald-trump-michigan-bernie-sanders-clinton-campaig
n
Damn, the final “n” separates when it loads, it was fine when I pasted it in. If you want to see the link, put it in the address box and make sure the “n” is attached to “campaig”
The problem with this analysis is that they will abuse the process. The two examples you cite are cases in point.
Impeachment is inherently designed to be abused because it’s an inherently political act, nothing more. That’s why the Repubs will never do it against Trump. They do that and they alienate the Crazification Factor and without that, they can’t get elected no matter how gerrymandered their districts might be.
I seriously doubt even if the Dems controlled both houses that they would impeach. As you point out, far better cases could be made for Iran-Contra and George The Lesser but Dems didn’t avail themselves of that opportunity because they, unlike the Repubs ten years later, understood the political consequences.
You make a far better argument for the Section 4 approach but again, there would be political fall out because Twitler would make damn sure of it.
Yes, we’ve elected a 3 year old and given him a loaded Glock with a hair trigger. Nobody with the Constitutional rights to do anything about it until November 2020 will step up to the plate and attempt it.
To quote C3PO: “We’re doomed”.
Actually, Donald Trump presents the best case for removal from office since Woodrow Wilson suffered his stroke.
This is a far better case than even Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, Iran-Contra, or Lewinsky.
I don’t object to that overall characterization.
The problem is that there are about 40-50 million (un)Real ‘Murkins who think he’s just fine. And the people in control of Congress are answering to them people and not the country at large, hence why any approach is inherently political and will be viewed as such by those with the power to initiate such procedures.
Hence, they won’t do nothing. As Steggles said further down, the Repub base is happy happy with Twitler.
Until there’s obvious physical evidence, and we’re not talking about the coke sniffing speculation that goes on, I’m talking about something like Wilson’s stroke or if he suffers a massive heart attack and is on a ventilator at Walter Reed, will Congress act under the authority granted to it under the 25th Amendment.
The only difficulty with this argument, however persuasive, is that it was all quite apparent to anyone with a functioning brain during the prez campaign, yet the incompetent white electorate decided that an completely unqualified mentally unbalanced con man was the “lesser of two evils”. Add in our failed constitution and voila, Der Trumper!
He extravagantly and promiscuously used Goebbelsian Big Lie theory and Bannonite crackpot conspiracy methodology during the entire campaign. He refused any information into his family business interests and finances. His untreated narcissism, lack of empathy, colossal ignorance and low-grade intelligence were daily on display. Der Trumper is behaving as prez precisely how one expected he would behave–as is the Repub Congress, for that matter. Hard to re-litigate this now.
We have seen the enemy and it is us. A nation cannot be “protected” from the mass of its citizens. They wanted to give the cranky three year old the gun, and did so.
(And has failure to “Take Care that the Laws be Faithfully Executed” been added to the Trumper impeachment pile yet?)
Well, to be brutally frank about it, you (we) have to decide whether the Egypt/Morsi model applies here.
Be careful what you wish for. People who grab power with violence usually uses violence to stay in power.
Pain and torture: state violence in Egypt | openDemocracy
” …you can be sure that many, many Republicans are more than perturbed that they have to constantly apologize for or try to rationalize the president’s insupportable statements and theories. They know he’s a dangerous loose cannon. They know he can’t be trusted or even reasoned with.”
Is there any evidence that points to this conclusion? Everything I’ve seen (been a few weeks) suggests that the Republican base is perfectly happy.
Not talking about the base.
There is plentiful evidence in quotes (anonymous and on the record) that there is no shortage of elected Republicans who are absolutely freaking out for the exact reasons I lay out here.
Yeah, I’ve seen stuff about elected officials making a lot of mouth-noises. But they do not get crosswise of their base, so I’m not sure if they matter. The base sees a toddler with a handgun and thinks, “Yeeeehaw! Hunting for immigrants.”
You understand that this piece is more hortatory than predictive, right?
Yeah, sorry. When I get trapped in despair, my impulse is to drag everyone else in with me.
Ahhh, you fooled me. When was the last time your hortatory exposition worked on a Republican lawmaker? 🙂
1974.
Wait a minute??? Weren’t you like 5 or 6 years old in 74? Even back then you wielded a mighty pen! I never knew that was you who brought him down. Good job!
The $64,000 question is when any one of those who are “freaking out” will have the courage, either individually or collectively, to cross the rubicon and go boldly where no man has gone before. Right now, we have no way of knowing how close that might be to happening. My instincts say it is not at all close. In fact, I don’t think it is anywhere on the event horizon. The Republicans in the House are salivating at this opportunity that has been handed to them. And while it seems that they can’t get their shit together, they are not going to prematurely jettison this golden moment under the pretense of doing the honorable thing for the good of the country. It is just not going to happen.
I cannot help but be cynical about what is going on inside the heads of elected Republicans. For all the occasional banging of pots and pans by the likes of McCain and Graham, the fact of the matter is, they are not going to be the ones who would be the point of the spear on any GOP insurrection. Their influence on anyone outside the beltway punditry and the Sunday morning talking heads is miniscule. Until there is some sort of group inside the House of Representatives who is willing to stand up and lay their political lives on the line for the long term good and safety of the world, I’m afraid nothing is going to happen.
I would absolutely love to be proven dead wrong on this. And I guess it could happen if there was some avalanche of undeniable evidence that someday pours out linking Trump to an array of horribly nefarious people and events. Honestly, I have my doubts that even that would be enough. Right now the GOP is burning the candle at both ends to make sure that all necessary means are brought to bear to maintain life support on the Trump administration. The drip, drip, drip that we are seeing now is going to have become a tidal wave in order for there to be any possibility that the GOP decides to turn around and eats its own.
Well, first, think about the difference between impeachment and the 25th amendment.
With impeachment, it’s up to Paul Ryan to authorize the chairman of the Judiciary Committee to start holding hearings.
With the 25th amendment, Ryan is presented with the majority advice of Trump’s cabinet that he isn’t fit to serve.
So, Pence and Mattis and Tillerson and Rick Fucking Perry are the ones saying “This shit has to be remedied.”
The grown-ups go to the House Republicans and say that this shit is too dangerous.
They’re obviously backed by Comey and the Intelligence Committee.
That’s a different ballgame.
I don’t see much of a ballgame on the 25th, at this point. Not even a toddler’s T-ball game.
But another bizarre tweet or two from Donald like the unsubstantiated allegation against Obama — going to war with his predecessor, unprecedented — and I might get interested.
Back in the day, it could have been possible with Lyndon, had the amendment existed in 64-5, if Moyers and Goodwin had compared notes with a few other cabinet holdovers and begun to form a quorum of the very concerned. Our country would have been far better off with a President Humphrey — no war, no country torn apart here, and with all the good progressive legislation. No Nixon in 68 either …
Well, John McCain and Lindsey Graham want to see the back of Trump, but they seem alone in this among GOPers.
Trump does not exist. The Republican Party exists. “The Republican Party” must be understood to include not only its officeholders and activists, but also its voters. The Republican Party is the toddler with the gun, and has been since at least 1979 (tho’ everyone always wants to pick their own date). Now tell us how the toddler is to be disarmed.
Keep the toddler off his game. There should be a time when you stop using his name and attribute everything as the GOP Administration. The GOP must own him (tweets too) and everything they do between now and 2020.
I agree the GOP needs to own this administration and be tied to all of Trump’s messes. They need to own this sh*t show, lock, stock and barrel. And this needs to pointed out every single time anyone sticks a microphone into a democratic party member’s face.
There’s no doubt that Trump is devolving by the day and perhaps the hour. With Bannon whispering ‘dark’ into every closed door meeting and then Trump responding that he doesn’t believe Comey’s pushback on the wiretap, the reality is before us. Trump lives in a very small and dark world now, only fed by Bannon morsels of more paranoia every day. Bannon has used the great fear mongering of the Rep leaders in years past but now in more focused sound bite version to keep Trump on the paranoia train. The manipulation is in the mix and Trump has been tenderized.
Very good comment.
Reading it was like looking into the abyss.
.
Hmm. Since the election I’ve had the sinking feeling that I’m living in a short story by h.p. lovecraft.
If being an ignorant loudmouth got you impeached, at least 90% of politicians should be impeached.
The quoted passage — “If the alleged action would be impeachable if true, so must be the allegation if false” — seems to me to be nonsense. So I agree provisionally that the surrounding impeachment argument is bad. (“Provisionally” because obviously I’m not a legal scholar and I’m just guessing — but I don’t think the author of the quoted pieceknows any better than I do.)
Everyone is thinking so hard about all of this, but it can’t be that complicated, can it? We’ve got a man in office who shouldn’t be there, for obvious, clear-cut, fundamental reasons that become more visible every day. The only people who disagree are those 30-40% of the electorate whose understanding of all of this is shaky to begin with and are probably a smaller group once you straighten out the polling questions. Then you’ve got opportunists like Ryan and McConnell who want their agendae advanced (and are therefore engaged in their crazy tighrope walk) and other congresspeople who are either hiding from their constituents or just hiding in general and hope this will all blow over in a way that won’t force them to get their hands dirty or risk anything.
So it’s a pretty clear-cut situation: the how of removing Trump from office isn’t as important as the when and the why. Once the popular support craters some more, or the congressional slipstream-riders realize they’re not getting the legislation they want (or that they’re being tied to a collapsing economy, a constituency furious about healthcare, or any number of possible international disasters), or somebody decides, to hell with my re-election, this is more important, then things will change.
One thing I predict won’t happen is a 2018 election where the Democrats get power in either or both houses and then push for impeachment, censure or removal under the 25th amendment. Not because I can see any earthly reason they wouldn’t, but because I’ve spent my life watching Democrats and they just never do stuff like that when you want them to…they consistently disappoint in precisely that way, every time. They always have some mysterious reason not to act (like when Pelosi, immediately upon taking her majority chair, announced that impeachment of Bush was “off the table”).
Wait, wut? Dems had 2/3 of the senate back then?
Wikipedia sez the senate was 49D+2I. Requires 2/3 to convict, yes? Just what end would be served by impeaching when he’d be acquitted?
But I’m tired of that logic. “Why do X? It won’t work.” Make a show of it! Scream into microphones! Go down fighting!”
FWIW, Lawrence O’Donnell brought up the 25th Amendment scenario on his show last month. Transcript at
http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/the-last-word/2017-02-20
Well, this does not bode well for the 25th Am route with O’D pushing for it.
So far, going back to before Donald even announced, OD has been wrong about Trump every step of the way.
Not that I wouldn’t like to see the bully himself told You’re Fired! More though is needed at this point, perhaps something in the tax returns. The Russiagate stuff doesn’t seem to have any there there.
As for Andrew Johnson,there was enough resistance to putting a fully Radical Republican (as they perceived him then) Benjamin “Billy” Wade in the presidency that conviction didn’t get as many votes as it should (also one or two RadReps, normally votes for Conviction, were violently opposed to Wade’s position on tariffs). Then there was the payoff (likely) of Sen Edmund Ross for his decisive vote.
But AJ should have been removed from office much earlier on grounds closer to the 25th of today — grossly dishonorable behavior (“obnoxious conduct” Benj Franklin would have called it, sufficient for removal). Drunk at his VP swearing in. Then a few days later when Abe met with him for the first time, he immediately after told one of his secretaries “Don’t let that man near me again.” They never met again.
What a far better country we would be today if he’d been ousted, even as the Tenure of Office Act arguably was kinda thin gruel. But, Al Capone on income taxes comes to mind here — clearly the right thing to do even if by unusual, back door means. But it all fell short by a single vote, and thus racial relations in this country were set back a full century, and the South rose again.
Hm. Wasn’t it the REPUBLICANS who ended Reconstruction in order to get the presidency for Hayes?
Undermining of Recon began a decade earlier under Johnson. Arguably, if a proper foundation for its implementation had been allowed, and the laws carried out vigorously and a new order established, there would have been no deal reversing it in ’76.
Red America has to get what they voted for. They bought it, they have to experience it now, and fully, or they will never understand it. Archie Bunker learns slowly, if at all. As he himself says, “my head’s made up”.
Don’t let Trump off the hook, and don’t let them off the hook, that hook has to be in deep enough for all the pain to be felt.
Fight him, yes, of course, every way possible, be the loyal opposition they don’t know how to be, and do it as well as possible, but he must continue to be fully and obviously responsible. He won. Red America gave him the ship of state to navigate, and they have to fully understand that he and more importantly, his Republican enablers are fully and completely responsible for running it onto the rocks.
With all due respect, and trying to be gentle about this:
such an attitude only makes sense if you believe that you and the people you care about aren’t going to be horribly hurt by his reign. If you believe otherwise, then “let them suffer, so they learn” is …. well, criminally stupid. There’s a term for it: “heighten the contradictions” and it comes from Lenin.
Now, maybe you feel that the damage suffered by so many could be worth the learning experience. And if he were ONLY a racist and a grifter, I might even agree with you. But:
BTW, I have lots of other reasons why I hate him and want him gone. But the above reason is one that all right-thinking Americans should be able to get behind. We know what Putin wants: he wants the West atomized, scattered and fighting amongst ourselves. We know why he wants it: so he can wield greater geopolitical power. We know how he’s doing it: by supporting blood-and-soil nationalism everywhere he can (brits hate poles hate germans hate romanians hate etc). And we know that the outcome will be worse for the peoples of the West. That should be enough.
And this doesn’t even touch on the violence, both of the official state and unofficial stochastic variety, directed against Trump ‘s domestic scapegoats. Only those who combine the security of privilege with a narcissistic lack of empathy can look at the Trump administration and think “Ha! Those right-wingers/neoliberals/impure democrats are getting what they deserve. After all, I’ll be OK. After Hitler, Our Turn!”.
I think American institutions are a good deal stronger than Trump, and must be followed.
You ignore that I want to fight him, but not by impeachment, which, for all its legal encrustations is essentially a political act, and not feasible n any case with his present popularity and the contours of the congress. They will drop him in a minute if it looks Iike he is taking them over a cliff.
I agree he will do immense damage, some to me, but every election is a learning experience, with consequences. If it isn’t worked out here, the next demagogue may be competent.
Maybe this is the contradiction Kurt Godel had in mind at his naturalization…
I’m going to try again. Brad Delong once observed that every 37 years, since 111 BC, an army has crossed the Rhine to wage war. Every 37 years. Until the creation of the EEC and NATO. For over TWO MILLENNIA.
http://equitablegrowth.org/equitablog/hoisted-archives-2013-future-european-project-future-eurozone/
Please, think again about what you’re saying when you claim our institutions are strong enough. Remember that Norman Angell argued in The Great Illusion that war between modern trading nations was impossible. B/c even the victors would lose too much. He published that in 1909. We know now how wrong he was.
Every one of us is the beneficiary of this world the creators of the Western Alliance bequeathed to us. If the price of keeping that world, is that Pence becomes president, I for one will pay it. And then go on to fight him him like hell, but first, we have to ensure that the preconditions for decency and civilization survive.
This is a civilizational conflict, not merely some political difference. Once Trumpism is killed, then yes, we can go back to politics. But think about it: Jennifer Rubin is against Trump, enough to -continue- to attack him in the WaPo. I agree with her on ….. ZERO issues, other than anti-Trumpism.
OK, I’ll stop. But seriously, nothing matters more than defenestrating Trump & Bannon. Nothing.
I don’t see Superman, I see Blunderman, and the first in a series if the electorate, one of the institutions which will persist, does not have the time to get wise to his shtick.