Ivanka Trump doesn’t necessarily support the idea of teachers bringing guns to school, but she thinks it needs to be discussed. That might be a diplomatic way to avoid outright disagreeing with her father, but she’s right that people should talk about it. They should talk about it not because it’s a sane or practical way to stop school shootings, but because it makes intuitive sense to a lot of people.
From the perspective of a would-be gunman, the more weapons in the schools, the more difficult their task. If they’re suicidal, which they usually are, then they won’t be worried about dying. But they might be worried about getting killed before they can carry out their plan. Would this ever be enough to make them choose the movie theater, outside concert, or shopping mall instead of a school? I think, conceivably, the answer to that is ‘yes.’ From the perspective of school safety, those other venues can work on their own plans for deterrence. Any plan that shifts shooters away from schools needs to be considered even if it has zero effect on the overall societal problem.
So, even if the deterrent effect is pretty weak, I can see how some would see it as better than the status quo. But making yourself a modestly less attractive target to a suicidal gunman has no necessary connection to making our kids safer on school grounds. Even if school shootings are increasingly common, they are still statistically rare. Someone bringing a gun to school is mostly a theoretical problem, which is how we should want things to remain. A solution that guarantees that multiple guns are brought to every school, every day, is going to ramp up the odds that a shooting will occur. Teachers can suffer from mental illness, too. They can have fits of rage. They can make mistakes and misplace a gun or fail to keep the storage site secure.
Another consideration is that many students, parents, and teachers would feel like this solution creates an unsafe learning or working environment. To implement this policy in the face of those concerns would be disrespectful and cause a large backlash. Irate parents would flood school board meetings, kids would be pulled out of public schools, and good teachers and administrators would retire.
Finally, teachers shouldn’t be hired or fired based on their ability to double as security officers. They would become primary targets for any shooters, and they’d still be individually outgunned in any likely firefight. Whether proficient with a weapon or not, they shouldn’t be diverted from their teaching duties to worrying about how to defend against an assault with a high-powered semiautomatic rifle. They shouldn’t be judged by their willingness or ability to confront someone who brings vastly more firepower to the confrontation. In military terms, this is no way to actually secure a campus.
I’ll admit that there’s a surface-level attractiveness to the idea. But the attraction vanishes once you scratch the surface a bit. We should discuss this idea, but only to make it clear why it’s a lazy unworkable plan based on magical thinking.
We can and should make our schools more secure, but this isn’t the way to do that.
You want to be the person standing there with a gun when the SWAT team busts in?
The counterargument would be that discussing it legitimizes it as an idea that a reasonable person might have, and ridiculing it prevents it from getting more of a foothold in our discourse.
This whole “having a conversation” thing means that we’ve already allowed ourselves to be distracted many times over. We have had enough “conversations” on this subject.
Funny, when conservatives talk about education policy teachers (especially unionized ones) are the worst, most incompetent, lazy, mean, etc. humans walking the earth.
When it comes to deflecting discussions regarding long over due regulation of the gun industry, suddenly teachers are skilled and competent enough to expect them to perform where armed law enforcement officers refused to even enter the most recent school while children died.
. . . finely tuned and calibrated, sensitive, and effective.
It’s the same fallacy as thinking that having guns in the house makes you safer.
Gun nuts blow a fucking gasket when you point out having a gun in the house puts them and their family at far more risk of harm and death than not having a gun. Complete, red-faced, howling anger.
Yes, I really want a firearm in my classroom! Here’s my application:
*I’m tired, stressed, over-caffeinated, over-worked, and underpaid.
*I’m constantly at battle with irresponsible parents and a heartless bureaucracy.
*I’m often in poor health due to all of the previously mentioned factors.
*I’m in a constant dance with depression as I witness the continuous lowering of standards and the victory of ignorance over civilization. The only thing that keeps me going is the fact that I love the kids – every time I think about quitting, I realize how much I would miss their energy and their irreverent observations about life. But every day it gets harder, and I feel my faith, and my sanity, slipping away.
So, I think that I really need a firearm in my classroom. I’m the very model of a stable provider of tactical firearms defense. I’m the perfect candidate! What could possibly go wrong?
I assume that the idea of arming teachers probably came from the NRA – the lobbying arm for gun manufacturers.
So let’s see: in 2016 there were 3.1 million FTE public school teachers, and in 2015 U.S. gun companies manufactured 4.4 million handguns.
Arming teachers would buy up well more than half of all of the U.S. manufacturing capacity.
Quite a boon to the gun industry. Added benefit: it will make our schools less safe!
No offense intended, but this should not even be a topic for discussion. Even providing good, sound, logical points about why this makes no sense should not be discussed.
The whole idea is ludicrous in the extreme, plus insanely dangerous for numerous reasons.
Even to “discuss” it simply to point out how utterly depraved an idea this is lends some level of credibility and validity to it, imo.
Just my 2 cents worth.
As a response to those for whom that proposal makes intuitive sense, Wow, that is hands down the most idiotic idea anyone could possibly ever come up with–what the hell is wrong with you? has to have its place in the discourse.
You write:
But Booman…what if this is exactly what the controllers want to see happening?
What then?
In 1992, when Ross Perot stated (Emphasis mine):
How to create a U.S. workforce that will work for Third World wages?
First…destroy the educational system.
Any which way you can.
1-Charter schools…the monetiization of education. (And “charter prisons” as well…to handle the rebellious. Even more profit!!!)
2-Defunded public education…especially in “minority” (read “cheap labor”) areas, including the areas where alla them white deplorables live.
3-Make schools themselves unsafe. I ask you…how much have school shootings accelerated over the past 70 or so years in this country? Prepare yourself.
So-called “benevolent neglect” in action.
Eventually…after the working and middle classes have been thoroughly de-classed… the “giant sucking sound” that Perot predicted will return U.S.-wards.
Equality obtained by downgrading the economy and workforce to Third World levels.
Brilliant!!!
For the .01%.
Not so good for the rest of the world.
But…who cares, as long as we have a Democratic Party-dominated government?
Right?
Riiiiight…
AG
I anticipate another spate of “This can’t happen here!!!” posts.
Wake the fuck up.
It is happening here. Read the numbers and weep.
Is it quite so purposeful? So conscious?
I really don’t know, but I would hate to have a direct line to the subconscious maunderings of many of our so-called “leaders,” especially the bankers who have been ripping us all off for well over 50 years….and the war planners/intelligence people, too. Kissinger especially, along with all of his allies. A basic despising of humanity is a must for many of them to be able to live with the crimes that they have committed.
Vicious criminals, really. Capable of anything.
Anything!!!
AG
Roy Cohns with atomic weapons.
AG
Stupid idea for multiple reasons.
School shooter walks into classroom. Takes out pistol, dispatches the teacher with a gun first. Gains another gun.
School shooter now goes after adults because they’re the ones with guns.
And, of course, the most important part. School shooter is attempting to fire off as many rounds into as many people as possible. Aim and accuracy isn’t as important as is the weapon they’re using pushing out rounds.
Teacher has to have absolutely amazing aim to hit school shooter and not other students. Because friendly casualties by teacher is pretty much counterproductive to the whole purpose of a teacher having a gun.
And teacher has to be mentally and physically prepared to take fire, use cover, and shoot at moving targets. Which means that those teachers are going to need a shit-ton of hours of training.
Keeping the school shooter out of the school is much more effective. Preventing the school shooter from acquiring the weapon is the most effective manner.
Starting at having teachers firing back at school shooter, in the classroom, already assumes that school shooter is in the school and killing people.
Metal detectors at all entrances, with armed guards.
AG
Living in voluntary prisons to feel safe means the terrorists have won.
On the evidence of the ongoing collapse of this culture, the terrorists are well on their way to winning.
Aside from reforming our system to stop the Permenent War machine Including the domestic permanent war that is plainly being encouraged by the gun companies)…something that neither of the two corporate-owned-and operated major parties of the Permanent Government are even near to doing…what other choices are there? At this rate, we will again double our school fatalities over the next 10 years or so. And that doesn’t include the other tragic shootings.
AG
Keeping a classroom of students engaged isn’t easy at any level, pre-school through university. It requires intense concentration. How could anyone be an effective teacher wondering if they’d have to pull a gun out of somewhere and fire it at someone with an AR 15 before the shooter mowed down the class.
Yeah, it’s a terrible idea on multiple fronts. Not to mention, it assumes that the shooter is already inside the school and shooting.
It prevents nothing.
It’s all in the numbers. Imagine I can put a magic genie in your school which absolutely guarantees that there will be no shootings there. One teeny little problem: sometimes the genie goes off the rails and kills a bunch of people. Doesn’t ever happen if the genie is a responsible, law-abiding spirit, so there’s really nothing to worry about. Right?
For the same reason that teachers should not be standardized test preparation tutors and standardized test proctors. Teachers should be teachers, which will deal both with test scores and with school shooting just as long as there are enough teachers and enough resources provided for teaching and learning for every kid.
In fact, it might turn out to be the case that fewer guns on campus will stimulate even fewer guns on campus.
And more teachers teaching would mean fewer lost children.
But that’s too indirect, squishy, and might get somebody to think that everyone is above average instead of marking winners and losers.
. . . the planet either guffawed uncontrollably for many long minutes, or stifled such guffaws, with a single exception: the speaker.
Sure, Bone Spurs. Sure you woulda. Perfectly credible claim!
Some other ideas that we can discuss
Civil… scratch that… criminal liability for gun manufacturers.
Obligatory registration for all firearms, with steep penalties (extended imprisonment) for non-compliance.
Sending Ivanka Trump and her family to Mars
How soon can this be arranged? We’ll give ’em an already prepackaged slogan: “Make Mars Great Again!”
. . . Ivanka et al. to Mars!
. . .
Thursday, March 1
England (FIFA-ranked World #3) vs. France (#6; but don’t get fooled, they kicked our asses in this event last year)
4:00p ET, ESPN3, Columbus, OH
United States (#1) vs. Germany (#2)
7:00p ET ESPN2, ESPN3, Columbus, OH
Sunday, March 4
United States vs. France
Noon ET, ESPN2, ESPN3, Harrison, NJ
Germany vs. England
3:00p ET, ESPN3, Harrison, NJ
Wednesday, March 7
France vs. Germany
4:00p ET, ESPN3, Orlando, FL
USA vs. England
7:00p ET, ESPNews, ESPN3, Orlando, FL
no we shouldn’t talk about it, beyond perfunctorily noting the stupidity of the idea, and waste no more precious airtime on gun-nut distractions …
via davekarpf @ twitter:
Works for me.
The tweet you embed is useful as well. Especially this bit:
The myth of violent video games having anything to do with violent crime generally and gun violence specifically has long been debunked. The kids see right through it. I have gamers among my young ones as well. We’ve had our share of talks. And if you don’t want to believe me or my young ones, there is a psychologist named Christopher Ferguson who is actually on point on that particular matter. About all playing any of today’ games with a FPS or MPG format will get you is a few “fuck you” remarks when you try to interrupt them mid-game. That’s about the maximal level of aggression you’ll get. As I said, the kids get it. So do a few mental health professionals and behavioral scientists. The NRA’s blame the video games schtick is nuts, and no one should fall for it.
Except for the superficial or lazy part, I think this is a really good response to what IS a lazy or superficial impulse. It respects the idea by examining seriously and engaging with it logically. So even though the idea has almost zero merit, I think discussing it like this has a better chance of getting through to more people.
9/10 post, would recommend but I don’t do facebook.