As political analysis, I think Aaron Blake does a good job here of explaining why Republican members of Congress, particularly senators, are unwilling to exercise their power to bring this president down. Blake doesn’t frame it that way; instead, he talks about tactics that could be used to achieve related aims, like passing a bill to protect the Mueller investigation or to get testimony from the interpreter who was present in Helsinki when Trump and Putin spoke privately together. My problem with this piece is that it fails as moral analysis.
The problem is the president, and that’s true regardless of which party you represent in Congress. The national security implications of having a president who is clearly compromised include a massive moral dimension. When a country as important and powerful as the United States is being steered by a man like Vladimir Putin, every living creature on the planet is potentially at risk. Maybe that sounds like hyperbole, but there’s a reason we took the actions we did at the conclusion of World War Two, and if we lose the Western Alliance and democratic countries lose the cohesiveness and unity needed to fight against nuclear proliferation and for human rights and conflict resolution, then the risks can not be overstated.
The problem for Republican lawmakers, assuming they would like to do the right thing and protect the country, is that they need the Mueller report first before they can go to their own base and make the case against the president. They actually deserve to have that information before they’re asked to do something as drastic as impeach and remove a president. They may know in the hearts already what the conclusions will be, but they need to see it. The country needs to see it.
We’ve gotten to the point where the need is there but the report is not yet finished. This puts us all in a miserable and dangerous waiting pattern. How much longer can we go without making a decision?
For Republicans who aren’t still more interested in obstructing and killing the investigation than in protecting the country, it’s not clear what they can or should do. Formally protecting the investigation seems like an urgent task, and if hijacking the Supreme Court nomination of Brett Kavanaugh is the quickest and surest way to do that, then I’d recommend it. That’s asking a lot, I know, and there may be other things that could be hijacked that wouldn’t be in such conflict with long-cherished conservative goals.
But protecting the investigation doesn’t speed up the process. If the Republicans are serious about getting us out of this mess, they need help. They need Mueller to produce the information they’ll need. A couple of weeks ago, the Republicans were pressuring Mueller to wrap it up and that is precisely what he needs to do.
I’m as cynical as anyone about Republicans. However, I’m not so biased against them that, based on the information we have right now, I will fault them for not starting impeachment proceedings against a president who is more popular than they are with their base. So far, the few Republicans who have tried to speak out have had their heads cut off. And, while it’s worth having your head cut off to save the Republic, it’s better to come armed with evidence you need to survive.
The real test for the Republican Party will come when they have the report and no longer have any excuses, good or bad, to avoid removing this man from power. For now, they are like the rest us, waiting in an uncomfortable limbo.
and what makes you think that once they have the report that it will be put out for everybody to see.
Because the people going after Trump are pros. This time around, you can be unreservedly thankful for that.
If Drumpf were innocent, he’d be clamoring for it the loudest…
Exactly. He’s such a dumb shit, he doesn’t know how to play all innocent but, instead, since Day 1 has acted like a frantic guilty party.
The Republicans chucked morals out the window when they embraced Trump and his plans to gut government and make as much money during his term as possible. They did that because they saw him as a useful tool to get everything they wanted; tax cuts, tighter immigration, destruction of departments of education and the EPA and others, plus a shiny new Supreme.
I concede that there may be a handful of Republicans in the House and Senate who are still hanging on to their humanity, but most haven’t. They can’t reconcile what Trump continues to do with what decent, humane, and honest people would do. They know he’s wrong and they have ignored it because it benefits them.
We have a lot riding on Mueller’s report. Everyone has a set of expectations and speculation about what it will finally reveal. I don’t see Republicans rooting for it, even as an excuse for them to finally stand up to Trump, though.
Can someone name 18 Republican Senators who would put country over party/greed/power/re-election?
I can’t name one.
If we’re talking about the Senate, almost every one of them want him gone and they can’t do shit unless they know they can get the kill. They will move when the water is warm enough and not a moment before.
But the reason for the acquiescence will still there…fear of the base Trump voter (death threats and RINO accusations) and fear of being opposed in the primary (same as #1, I suppose)
And you are dismissing that some of those Senators are themselves compromised.
Like always, you make a compelling and convincing case. I guess it’s predicated on a faith in Republican humanity, a humanity I just don’t see.
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After all, these are people who defended separating parents from their children, then putting those children in jail…with the knowledge that some of them would never see their parents again.
Once you do that, there is no bottom.
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Off topic, but I’m giving you the comment rating guidelines:
Keep these ideas in mind when dishing out the donuts. If you think someone ought to be banned, maybe that’s something you can discuss with me. But we have the ‘2’ rating to provide a warning to someone who is violating community rules and common decency, and we have the ‘one’ rating for registering a stronger protest. The zero is for behavior that merits banning and enough zeroes will auto-ban a user from making comments.
Unless you really believe someone should be banned, you certainly shouldn’t be throwing donuts at all their comments.
Fair enough.
Not one of those disappeared a post. They are all still there.
But should I list how many times my tag has been used in a derogatory manner over the years, even without the donuts? I’m sick of it. And I’m sick of the lies about me.
I’m also sick of people using sock puppet accounts to bring their diaries to the top, over people who depend on the community to recommend their diaries. That, to me, is worth banning. False links…worth banning. Maybe not forever, but at least a time out.
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One other thing,
For years these people went through the archives, using their main accounts, as well as sock puppet accounts, to give my posts donuts. Out of sight, in secret, hoping no one would notice.
All done because I was critical of Sanders, and did not buy into his bullshit. Not one complaint from me.
I got pretty damn sick of that, too.
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Fwiw, I spent a fair bit of time uprating posts of yours and a few others that appeared to be targeted in precisely the manner you described – in the hopes of at least minimizing the damage being done. That shit gets tedious in a hurry.
I can’t do anything about stuff I don’t know about.
I’d generally discourage anything that could be defined as a “ratings war.” Imagine wasting time going through archives to troll-rate stale comments. That’s the kind of dumb shit that happens to people’s brains when they get diverted into tit for tat online foolishness.
Because it was such dumb shit is why I never brought it up, or acted like a whinny ass little titty baby. But now you kinda, sorta, in a way, if I sort of tilt my head at a certain angle and squint my eyes, asked for an explanation.
They are Republican trolls, who have spend years on this site trying to convince us to vote third party, or preferably…not vote at all. And it turns out they used Russian propaganda to do it! OMFG!! And it worked with a few.
And here they are, right before mid terms, right back at it. Same `both sides’ even though children are being locked up in cages. Same false links, same misogyny, same biases.
I’m sick of it.
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I think you are putting way too much faith in Trump’s ability to survive if he doesn’t survive.
In other words, once Nixon was gone he had absolutely no pull whatsoever on the base that was giving him good poll numbers to the bitter end. That’s what I mean by warm water. If you shoot and miss, you’re politically dead and you did not accomplish much in the bargain.
But if you all shoot then not only are you more likely to get the kill but you’ll less likely to get hit by return fire if you fail.
Most of the people defending Trump will lose interest in him when he’s been tossed. They won’t punish Republicans who threw him out.
Some cult leaders become divine when they die, but rest assured this will not be the case with Trump’s ridiculous fifteen minutes in power.
“Ayo, lesson here, Bey. You come at the king, you best not miss.”
Omar Little
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But, the base loves Trump.
Full stop.
Pulling the trigger and nailing Trump doesn’t change the fact that the base now considers you, literally, a traitor…never mind what Strongman Trump did.
Can you name 18 Republican Senators who are A-OK with losing their ability to be re-elected to the Senate, in order to…uh…save “the Republic”, whatever the fuck that even is?
I’m having a hard time actually coming up with names of Senators who are OK with being kicked out of the Senate, for essentially, nothing.
I don’t believe an impeached and convicted Trump will be significantly more popular than Dan Quayle.
I assume
this would do what you are talking about.
It’s always worse that what you can see from the outside.
He’s burning sources, and Putin is taping the burns.
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Can someone name any? And finger-wagging and WSJ editorials don’t count.
It looks like Putin has thrown Trump a lifeline, and of course it’s a twofer for Putin.
His ‘deal’ he offered to Trump to have his felons work with and/or be interviewed by Mueller’s team on Moscow soil came with the caveat of his felons being able to interview Mike McFaul and Browder and 10 others in order to exploit the conspiracy theories of how the US meddled in Putin’s election.
He’s giving Trump the mother of all ‘both sides do it’ and therefore never mind while probably convincing Trump to end the EU & US sanctions so Russian babies can be adopted again.
The danger of going after someone like McFaul is pretty damn scary and since Sanders didn’t deny that Putin’s suggestion was on the table when Maggie Haberman asked her, it should send shivers down everyone’s spine.
Just to add a final straw, since McFaul is also a MSNBC contributor, this can be labeled an attack on our media.
They didn’t need any help to draft articles of impeachment against Rosenstein.
Given their attempts to shut down the DOJ and FBI investigations, their personal threats against Mueller, Comey, Strzok, Page, and McCabe,… I just don’t think they want evidence against Trump. At every opportunity they have acted to defend Trump and to attack anyone who threatens him. Former-Never-Trumper Lindsay Graham has even called for an investigation against Christopher Steele (for discovering evidence of a Russia connection with the Trump campaign) and another into “anti-Trump” bias at the FBI.
These are not the actions of a group of people looking for help getting out of this mess. These are the actions of a completely corrupted party. It’s rapidly becoming clear that many of them are also implicated of collaborating with Russian agents.
Look, While I agree that there will be few, if any, Senators that will support impeachment, especially as long as Traitor McConnell is Majority Leader. But the examples you gave of outrageous obstructionism all come from the HOR not the Senate. The current GOP HOR majority, as we all know, are a bunch of extremist monsters and all deep Trumpers. For anything to happen, the HOR has to flip to the Democrats this Fall.
Maybe if the Mueller report came out in September (and I have heard rumors of that but who knows) then it could be a big, big vote changer but first of all election security is Job No. 1. Trump clearly wants Putin to interfere again since it protects him from prosecution.
Remember for Trump, it’s always about him.
1.) Lindsay Graham is not a member of the House.
2.) Impeachment proceedings start in the House, not the Senate. If we can’t expect Republican House members to act, then there is no urgency on Mueller’s part – which is Booman’s whole argument.
3.) If “election security is Job 1.” then Mueller can wait until November.
4.) Mueller is, rightly, not playing the political game. He’s investigating a crime and the “report” will be years in the making.
5.) If he were playing the political game, Trump would actually have grounds to fire him.
Republicans politicians neither need, nor deserve cover and I have no sympathy for their worries about “the base”. They all take an oath to protect the country and there are many actions well short of impeachment that they can do to defend it.
There seems to be a hopeful assumption here that a number of Republiclowns in Congress might want to do the right thing, and might be waiting for Mueller’s evidence before they decide to commit political suicide by doing the right thing when the time comes, given the likelihood that no volume of unassailably compelling evidence will change their base’s opinions about their party’s Fuehrer.
I confess I have a problem with the assumption that any Republiclown elected during the last two or three decades might want to do the right thing. (See Mr. Longman’s previous post, esp. “their embrace of [the] most vicious aspects of our nature.”) If they’re concerned about the right thing, then why would they ever have chosen to be Republiclowns in the first place?
That aside, if there’s anything at all on the political landscape to suggest that Republiclowns collectively aren’t totally committed by this point to driving the bus off the cliff and taking everyone else with them, please, please point it out to me!
As for Mueller wrapping it up: I’d say that he and his shop understand very well the stakes of their work and also recognize that the smallest procedural misstep or error in judgment could shipwreck the whole endeavor. What we have seen of his strategy so far suggests that he is methodically building a case for conspiracy to defraud the U.S.
I am not sure it is the Congress that needs Mueller’s report.
I think there are many voters who voted for Trump, not the out and rabid MAGA hattters, but people who will hold their tongue in polite society. I have an acquaintance like that.
Some of them are increasingly discomforted by all the shenanigans. While cruel immigration action might not be their bread and butter issue, the wholesale genuflection to Putin – not only by DJT, but 7 R senators and 1 R Congresswoman – is likely making them uneasy.
If Mueller’s report shows incontrovertible proof of the Republican party’s collusion with Putin, then despite a supine Republican congress, we have a chance of capturing one or both houses this November.
And as pointed out in Winning is Not Enough, there are some better options using the megaphone of Congress to ensure long term changes in how we govern ourselves!
They more they attach themselves to this shit, the heavier their burden later on when we’ve rid ourselves of this current abomination.
Ever hear of “premature antifascists”?
This were folks who opposed the fascist takeover of Spain and then were later accused of being soft on communism.
No Republican wants to be tarred with premature anti-Trumpism.
Think the obvious problem here is the assumption that there are GOPers who intend to do the right thing.
If they know if their hearts what the results of the Mueller investigation will be — or just may well be — they would be preparing their base by speaking out forcefully when these “Oh shit” moments arise.
They don’t do that to anywhere near a sufficient degree, on the off chance they do it at all.
Frankly, there’s enough in the public record at this point that the assumption ought to be they’ve no intention of doing the right thing.
I think you’re in denial and you probably think I’m in denial.
That’s fine. I understand your position. I’m doubtful that you understand mine, however.
Trump’s latest transgressions are equally offensive to conservatives and liberals, and he’s crossed a line and cannot retreat from.
When the evidence is produced, he will have almost no defenders in the Senate. He may have none.
Based on how much Mueller has GRU dead to rights — and I mean, dead to rights — I am coming around to your position, Martin. I think it’s going to be so unbelievable and clear that there will be no doubt left except for 25% hangers on, and the Senate will have to do what needs to be done.
What we learned about Russian and U.S. spycraft from Mueller’s indictment of hackers
Micah Lee
I’m hopeful Martin is right and agree with your first paragraph. My question: if (when?) top Republican congressional leaders are implicated in Russian-financed campaign finance fraud, and collusion with a foreign government, by Mueller’s report, will Republican pols double down and protect their own, rather than willingly sacrifice a wounded, and despised, president? A lot of speculation, I know, but we’re not just talking about Trump’s crimes here.
Assuming that is the case, and given the sophistication of the prosecutors and investigators, the way to handle that is similar to the way malfeasance in officeholders is commonly handled. You tell a corrupt politician that it might be better to retire than to face charges and suddenly more time with the Farenthold family seems like a swell idea.
In this case, you spare the rod to secure the votes.
I think you are right about a lot here. Even I am not stupid enough to claim we’ve reached a “turning point,” but I believe there is a qualitative difference this time: It’s getting truly scary and, worse, it is obvious it can get a lot scarier. Has bedrock been hit?
Trump has failed abysmally in his efforts to “say the right thing” and “clarify” his screw-ups, and there is a sense nothing is working and, even more serious, that they can’t even try anymore. This latest chain of insupportable blathering and the shocking amount of guilt on display is taking a toll. And not just with the usual suspects. Meaning us.
Here’s a thought.
The only reason to meet privately with Putin is treachery.
Who doubts Putin has recorded all the conversations, including the one last year, at that dinner?
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Or killled sources:
Solid Intel Putin Ordered Ratfucking and Trump Knew
I think I understand your position just fine, Boo. This is where I think you’ve got it wrong:
I don’t see how you can look at the GOP responses to Trump’s latest Trumpiness and believe that. There is no basis for it. Simply changing “would” to “would not” in one sentence was good enough for the GOP to shrug their shoulders.
When the evidence is produced, he will shout “Fake news,” his supporters will believe him, and the GOP senators will furrow their brows for Chuck Todd and then proceed to muddy the waters.
The problem, which I tried to articulate in this piece, is that there isn’t anything the GOP can really do right now. They need more than a botched press conference no matter how incriminating it might be. So, unless they’re willing to call for an immediate referral to the House Judiciary Committee for impeachment hearings, they pretty much have to clam up after registering their displeasure. And it’s premature to open impeachment hearings when they’re not in possession of the main evidence.
This is why the SC ruling in US v. Nixon was so important.
…And why Kavanaugh being a sure SC vote to make sure nothing of the sort ever happens again to a GOP president is so important.
Uh huh:
https://twitter.com/alexwagner/status/1019921115148414976
The prevailing narrative continues to be that Trump is an outlier when, in fact, he is the culmination of nearly 40 years of extremist right wing (“conservative”) policies and messaging. The GOP is not surprised about Trump. He serves their policies loyally. He’s just a total clown and not a professional traitor.
I agree with this, but it also may (superficially?) jibe with Martin’s point–because as soon as the GOP doesn’t need him anymore (after Kavanaugh’s in, after X legislation is/was passed), he’s expendable in the political sense.
Pence may be just as bad in different ways, but he’ll be politically malleable in the way that Ford was(?) and also politically expendable as a 2020 nominee–when they let Dems win to halfheartedly clean up the mess and be their midterm-fuel punching bags.
Then the Tea Party engine (or something astroturfy like it) will start up again and around and around we’ll go.
Sadly enough, that seems all too plausible.
Booman…
I sincerely hope that you are right.
We shall see.
The pros will plot how close to November the damage should be done.
Let us pray that they are right.
While we’re at it…let us pray that they have it right. That they have Trump dead to rights.
If they can’t really nail him?
The first time?
End of story, I think.
AG
Expecting Republicans to do (i.e. vote against their party) the right thing is becoming the very definition of insanity. This belief that somehow, somewhere there are still some “reasonable” Republicans that will do the right thing is most likely futile, and ultimately probably counterproductive. The anonymous comments of concerned Republican politicians are no doubt just wishful thinking of the compromised villager press, who refuse to believe that the elite consensus that previously ruled Washington and that is ingrained to their soulless existence has been shattered by the election of Donald Trump, or of the aging, has-been Democratic politicians that love to talk the “resistance” talk but then cravenly give their votes to Trump and his Republicans on critical issues when most of the country is looking the other way.
It really seems that our politics has become inescapably altered over the last few decades- and we probably aren’t ever going back to the time like we had before when both parties had a wide ideological spectrum and coalitions could be built across party lines over specific issues and where there was also pretty much a consensus to limit the influence of money on our politics. Over time, the Republican party has become, with precious few exceptions, a unified, corrupt, party line voting death cult that is interested only in achieving power and enhancing the interests of their billionaire funders. If they turn on Donald Trump, they will show their voters that they are just mere mortals and the cult will either eat them in favor of a more true believers or will just evaporate back into the humid, white nationalistic air that hovers over their states. If that happens, then the Republican politicians will loose their magic powers over the rubes and, as a consequence, the billionaires will shun them and then their money and power dries up faster than Donald Trump can say “witch hunt”.
The true insanity is that most of the Democrats haven’t yet realized how much the game has changed- They are still trying to play football before the forward pass was invented and wondering why they keep loosing. You are not going to get Republicans to your side with moral arguments about the good of the country, you get Republican votes with an expression of power that shows them the consequences of selling out our nation for a few shiny trinkets and a couple of Supreme Court seats.
You forgot the donors. Once the donald is not useful they will use their money to encourage the senators to push the donald out. It always comes back to the money.
I forget who tweeted this recently: “We are closer to the beginning of the Mueller investigation than the end.”
There is also the speculation that Mueller would deliberately try to avoid influencing the midterms.
But even if Mueller issues a finding in late October that Trump obstructed justice – the most we could reasonably hope for at this point – it would not help. Trump supporters would turn out in even greater numbers, having already been told that keeping the House is necessary to keep the “Deep State” from impeaching. Trump haters are already maximally motivated. And anyone indifferent to Trump is too bovine to be swayed by anything except a sharp recession. (Which is bound to come eventually, but probably not in the next 3 months.)
Whichever side ends up without control of the House will suspect vote tampering. That will further undermine confidence in democracy – which is exactly what Putin wants.
It’s a real shit show/
This is incorrect. There is already evidence enough to incriminate him of quid pro quos for election help and US foreign policy. But it needs to be done right and airtight to the point that Putin can’t reasonably come up with any disinformation campaign that will make even the slightest bit of sense. This is why Marcy Wheeler believes the Steele Dossier contains a significant amount of disinformation.
Frankly, I don’t think the dynamics I outlined would change if Mueller produced high-definition video of Putin handing Trump a bulging burlap sack labeled with a gold dollar sign as Trump laughingly jeered at his supporters as “the most pathetic suckers on earth”.
Trump would call it a forgery by the Fake News Media and his supporters would believe it.