Yup, we definitely live in bewildering times.
The Senate on Thursday unanimously approved a resolution warning President Trump not to let the Russian government question diplomats and other officials, shortly after the White House released a statement backpedaling on a proposal to allow Moscow to help interrogate U.S. citizens such as former Ambassador Michael McFaul.
Senators voted 98-0 on the resolution spearheaded by Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Democratic Sens. Bob Menendez (N.J.), Dick Durbin(Ill.) and Brian Schatz (Hawaii).
“That President Trump would even consider handing over a former U.S. ambassador to Putin and his cronies for interrogation is bewildering. …This body must agree on the importance of protecting our ambassadors. We should pass it today, not wait, not show any equivocation,” Schumer said ahead of the vote, which was scheduled before the White House backtracked.
The nonbinding resolution comes amid growing frustration in the Senate over the White House’s warmer stance toward Moscow, especially after the joint summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump earlier this week.
Senators Richard Shelby of Alabama and John McCain of Arizona did not vote on this resolution. That it was felt necessary to pass this through the Senate today says a lot about where we stand in this country right now. I feel like this, from an anonymous but active State Department diplomat, is another good indicator:
The current U.S. diplomat said the openness to turning over McFaul capped off a shocking week for U.S. geopolitics.
“The president has first and foremost his interests at the top of his mind, as opposed to the government’s. That’s very clear over the past week and a half, between shitting on our NATO allies and kissing Putin’s ass,” the diplomat said. “He cares more about himself than the nation and any of us who serve it.”
The diplomat continued: “Either he’s compromised by Putin or he’s a pussy, in which case he should grab himself.”
And John McCain may be too ill to cast votes in the Senate, but it’s pretty clear where he stands.
Sen. John McCain blasted President Donald Trump’s joint news conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday as “one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory.”
For some reason, Hunter S. Thompson’s observation that “when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro” come to mind. This presidency is worse than anyone could have reasonably imagined.
BooMan, not that I want to disagree vehemently, but, uh, there were -lots- of people who imagined this. I seem to remember an extremely well-prepared and experienced grandmother wearing white on the teevee screen, telling us this, back in The Before Time. It would be unreasonable to call her unreasonable, I think, given her breadth and depth of experience.
Just sayin’.
I remember her. She wasn’t exciting.
Those who have followed Trump over the years knew it would be bad. But I agree it is even worse than expected or predicted.
I actually think it’s vastly better.
I was genuinely terrified after November 2016 — I was afraid we were on the brink of a fascist revolution. But Trump has turned out to be vastly more ineffectual and incompetent than I feared.
I found the Bush/Cheney era far more existentially frightening. It seemed like a very dark and competent evil force was systematically taking over the world.
This is different. I mean, obviously it’s appalling (and there has been genuine tragedy and possibly-irreparable damage to Puerto Rico; the separated families; the courts etc.) But Trump is, thankfully, not competent to the task — he’s too lazy and stupid and confused to do the kind of real damage I was afraid of. Small comfort but comfort nonetheless.
But you can never know when his next effort is a bingo, stupid or not. That is also terrifying.
I expected the recruiting of a massive force of ICE spit Gestapo to execute a pogrom on our undocumented population. I expected that Muslim ban to stick b/c “how many divisions has Judge Whatever-his-Name”? And more. I expected JeffyBo The Elf to systematically purge minority voters in all the red states, hand-in-hand with KKKris KKKobach. What I -didn’t- expect, was that they would more-or-less be delayed (not stymied, b/c they’re still moving forward) by the judicial branch. That surprised me and heartened me.
I was expecting that by now, there’d be civil unrest and violent direct action. So we’re doing a lot better than I figured.
Mostly, I think, b/c the Trumpers aren’t very good at dealing with bureaucracy.
Chetsky…
You write:
Or…
Mostly, I think that most of the good people of this country…I often put that number at about 85% on the basis of my intimate travels through all levels of this society…simply no longer believe that civil unrest will work. We have had massive “civil unrests” since the anti-Vietnam War and anti-segregation movements of the ’60s…marches, sit-ins, ghetto burnings, the ’68 Chicago riots, the many protests over police shootings, the Occupy movement, etc.
What have we gotten from those actions?
A militarized police force with permission to shoot to kill and…now…Donald Trump.
Those same good people…and I generally define that term as people who simply want to be left alone with enough working income to to raise their families…also feel as if all major politicians lie to them, all of the time. They feel betrayed by Bill Clinton, betrayed by Barack Obama, betrayed by Bush II and certainly betrayed by Donald Trump. I include the many of the people who voted for him in that latter group. Only the haters and the truly stupid…maybe another 15% or 20%…could miss what he is about by this time.
People feel as if they have no real options. They look at the leadership of the two major parties and see the same old leaders who have consistently lied to them for nearly 30 years.
As I wrote in a recent post (A Tired Middle America. SO Tired…):
In my view, we are not doing a lot better than you figured.
This has been due to a campaign based not so much on real-world negative actions as it has been based on confusion…the gradual wearing down of people’s souls and minds by endless doublespeak, deviousness and backtracking.
Trump is a master at this.
So are his centrist opponents…especially the intelligence agencies.
Put all of that confusion together and what do you get?
A massively confused…and perhaps massively apathetic…electorate.
We shall see in November how apathetic this electorate really is. If it is so confused by all of the hype emanating from both sides of this competition…and bet on it, there are now only two sides with any real power in an electoral sense, the pro-Trump forces and the combinination of neocentrist Democrats, centrist Republicans (somewhat diminished by the Trump presidency but still powerfu) and seemingly immortal, always well-entrenched deep state bureaucracy. The so-called “progressive” wing of the Democratic Party? Too late for this election, I believe. Maybe by 2020…sigh. (I sometimes feel like the sports fans who are forced to say over and over again, “Wait ’til next year!!!”)
Can the media sufficiently fan the flames of electoral dissent to put a stop to the ongoing Trump victories. I sincerely hope so, but as I also said in that aforementioned post:
I see that apathy in the so-alled “blue” centers of this country as well. In places where instead of Fox News, CNN rules the TV/ Nobody’s paying much attention to it there, either.
The media in general may have shot its wad this time.
Too much of the Chicken Little Syndrome, Too much shouting about:
From all sides.
And it doesn’t?
Eventually people just turn off the Chicken Littles.
Only…this time?
The sky may well be falling!!!
We’ll see in November.
Won’t we.
AG
Now a standalone:
We Are Being Chicken Littled. From ALL Sides.
Please comment there.
Thank you…
AG
No.
Ditto. These attempts of his to hijack the front page are pathetic.
Arthur Gilroy has extreme right wing political beliefs, a number of which he has shared here. Look at his recent diaries and comments on this blog. He is engaged in increasingly panic-stricken nonstop efforts to depress voter turnout for Democratic Party candidates.
He is acting in extremely bad faith when he complains nonstop about centrism in the Democratic Party. Arthur’s policy views place him in the right wing of the Republican Party. He’s no friend of our movement, or this community, at all.
Among the many examples: Arthur thinks unemployment insurance is bad policy; he believes it saps initiative. He has shown zero interest in defending other social welfare programs. He also appears entirely untroubled by Kiddie Koncentration Kamps.
Arthur believes States should be freed to enact extremely restrictive voter ID laws and other attempts to steal voting rights from Americans. He also believes States should be allowed to force juvenile incest victims to carry pregnancies caused by their rapes to term even though many of them would have their lives placed at extreme risk through those forced births.
A group…or perhaps better, a cadre…of people on this site have tried everything in their power to discourage criticism of the Democratic Party as it stands today. They automatically downrate such posts and have endlessly attacked several posters as liars, fools, pro-Trump trolls and/or spreaders of Russian propaganda. When effectively rebutted, they simply ignore the rebuttal and repeat the same attacks. These McCarthyite tactics are intended to exhaust the patience of the attacked posters and discourage others from reading or posting similar material. It has worked on a few posters, who have simply given up. It has not worked on me. I initially answered their attacks with attempts at reason. After realizing that this was a total waste of time, I simply stopped replying to them. My comments and articles on this site are my replies. Read what I have to say; consider what they have to say and how it is said, and then make up your own minds. Thank you-AG
WATTB
wah wah wah
. . . the following statement to many of my replies to your “standalone articles” (LOL!) and comments…for the benefit of new readers here. It applies to the comment this replies to as well:
*[ref.]
Also too, STILL waiting, liar!
link
link
Say it loud and say it proud. This needs to be repeated over and over.
. . . ridiculous “cadre” pack of lies. That certainly earns a repetition.
This blog is being used to mainstream what should have remained marginalized. I think you have made it clear as anyone can that this is not a faithful community member. I know I have tried, with almost no success. I wonder how many who have gone silent in recent years thought the same thing? In the meantime, here we are. I have no confidence that anything will happen to correct the matter. I am being optimistic.
“… a faithful community member???”
Define your terms.
Doss that mean someone who agrees with the current rightward direction of the Democratic Party. Agrees with all of the plain-to-be-seen neocenrists on this site?
This not “your” community!!!
A “community” that only allows one way of thinking isn’t a community.
It’s a dictatorship.
AG
A faithful member of the community is one who is willing and consistently discusses issues straightforwardly, without deflecting or gaslighting. A faithful member of the community may well disagree with various facets of the Democratic Party’s platform at any given time, its leadership, and its various members (elected or otherwise). A faithful member of the community may well be cool with Will Rogers’ famous quote about not belonging to a political organization (I’m a Democrat), as the party as a coalition does represent a wide variety of interests and perspectives. A faithful member of the community manages to communicate in a way that does not include consistently insulting those with which one disagrees, throwing tantrums in the form of callout diaries, consistently links to disinformative websites as a persuasive tactic, or engages in other forms of disruptive activity. By that definition, you fail.
I do disagree with you about this not being my community. I like many others here have invested considerable amounts of time here and have cultivated friendships over the years thanks to this blog. Those individuals are in some way part of my extended family. Nor is this a dictatorship, unless or until the owner of the website simply decides to end commenting and diaries altogether. Thus far that has not happened. I would kindly suggest backing off from ever making such statements again. Thank you.
Have I not been here a long time too?
My only “sin”…if sin it is…has been to see things differently than many here.
I too want the U.S. to find a better way than what has been happening. I just don’t think that the Democratic Party…as it now stands…is a good vehicle for that sort of change.
AG
I think this goes deeper than merely “seeing things differently” from many of the rest of us. If it were a mere difference of perspective, and nothing else, I seriously doubt your posts would have the sort of reception you’ve experienced and which to some degree you appear to avow taking offense over said reception. You might find folks drawing you out a bit in order to better understand you and you might have even managed to persuade some folks – and you’d have plenty of folks coming to your defense had you come under attack for merely disagreeing and nothing more. We both know that it is not merely disagreement about the direction of the Democratic Party – a broad topic that would require a great deal of time and effort to break down, as we would need to address various national, state, and local party organizations, independent organizations that support the party and influence the party, and their members. Perhaps a conversation worth having, but one that is, I imagine, complex and nuanced in a way that a simple response here would do no justice.
And yes, you are a long-standing known quantity. Your presence is known and it is felt. I suspect that is the understatement of the week. Your posting style is mildly reminiscent of G.G. Allen’s approach to baiting an audience until a fight breaks out and the venue had to cut the show short. Ordinarily, a decade’s worth (or so) of consistently making comments that create plenty of ire would require the poster to do a bit of self-reflection. Although a bit late, it would be worth your while. Do you have it in you to post in a way to invite conversation, while still being true to whatever perspective it is you are attempting to promote? Does that even motivate you? If not, what’s the point, beyond drawing attention to yourself? I really don’t need or expect an answer here. I do hope and wish you would take a few moments to reflect. At least I am asking nicely. After a decade of frustration, I doubt many others would.
You write:
Strangely…or not so strangely…I have “managed to persuade some folks.”
Some of them have since left the site…under concerted attack. I can’t blame them. Not many people have the luxury of being able to devote hours every week to resisting hostile neocentrist hustlers,
Others remain in positions of defense from the repeated attacks of less than 6 posters, but continue to actively resist, any which way they can.
But…I seem to appear on the “Recommended” list quite often.
And…Booman himself has not banned me.
So I continue.
Deal with it.
AG
And that was the response I expected. No surprise. I would not get too excited about being on the rec list either. All it takes is one or two people to rec a diary these days. That’s a less a credit to your persuasive skills and more a comment on the state of traffic on this blog. Sort of is what it is.
. . . solidarity recommendations (“us dishonest pariahs gotta stick together!”) are unsurprising.
It totally mystifies me why Karl Pearson frequently acts as enabler in that way, though. He doesn’t otherwise come across as an idiot.
YOU ARE A RIGHT WINGER. Your policy beliefs, as you have expressed them here, are extremely right wing, particularly on the domestic side. Not left-wing, not centrist. Right wing.
For this reason, your critiques that the Democratic Party is too centrist are horrendously dishonest bullshit, transparently motivated to split the liberal voting base. You write on this very thread that the Democratic Party “is not a good vehicle” for change. You offer no other alternative at this time. ASSHOLE!
I can tell you this, you sexist racist jerk, when Democratic Party candidates regain substantial control of more Federal, State and local governments, they will create a number of very welcome changes from the despicable sexist racist oligarch-serving Dominionist asshole governance we are now suffering under.
. . . though he regularly lies by adopting the pose and pretending to be one. E.g.,
(wherein ag lied not merely that he is a “progressive”, but, ridiculously, a “fairly far-left progressive”!)
Then there’s the ultimate irony of not merely pretending to be a “progressive” himself, but actually declaring himself (though laughably wrongly) the authority on what constitutes “The REAL Progressive World”!
Like he’d recognize “progressive” if it walked up and whomped him upside the head with a 2X4. (Which, come to think of it, might actually do some good! Obviously, nothing else does.)
If ag’s a “progressive”, then “progressive” is utterly devoid of meaning.
— and it’s a monstrous one — is not “to see things differently than many here” it’s to assert falsehoods as facts, then run away from the refutation of them. Then try to cover up that running away by lying about the substance of the criticism and the motives/reasons of the critics.
Continuously.
This excludes you from membership in any community of decent folk.
Being different, having a different perspective (“to see things differently than many here”) is no sin here. Never was. That doesn’t mean there won’t be some arguments, but generally someone who is merely different will be treated well as a member in good standing. There is a line between being merely a gadfly and trolling. If someone is ever treated unfairly here, I hope some folks will step up. In AG’s case, if he’s been ostracized it’s essentially on him due to his own actions (which you and plenty of others over the last couple years especially have aptly described).
. . . everyone here “see[s] things differently” from everyone else here at some point or another. The “community” obviously isn’t defined by lock-step agreement.
It’s ag’s unique conceit to declare himself a martyr over this and lie/pretend the criticism he earns many times over is about something completely other than what it’s actually about. (On second thought, not quite “unique” as oui does the same thing . . . lying robotically that he gets downrated for “dissent”.)
The ongoing, persistent dishonesty is breathtaking and indeed a crime against “the community” here.
And for that I am grateful. Have learned a few things over the years in the process – maybe even changed my perspective on a few matters in the process. That can’t happen without an honest exchange (I know – I really should stop stating the obvious). The blatant deception and faux martydom by AG and to an extent Oui got tiring a long damned time ago – and to the extent either continues to do so, they should be called out on it. That may well be the only energy that need be spent on that duo. There are more interesting things to discuss.
Welcome @ET 🙂
Gallup poll – Global Leadership
In memoriam 100 years – Nelson Mandela: The iconic South African leader
Supported Israel’s right to exist as a democratic Jewish state, yet felt closer to its enemies: the PLO’s Yasser Arafat, Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi, Cuba’s Fidel Castro, Iran’s Mohammed Khatami and Syria’s Hafez Assad.
Mandela was branded a terrorist by the United States of America!
“Get a feeling of being disconnected to the 95%, outer world? “
So now Oui compares himself to Mandela?
Priceless.
. . . for the noble cause of universal human rights.
oui for the snowflake cause of demanding valid criticism of him be prohibited.
Same thing!
Odd you didn’t recognize that.
. . . a faithful community member doesn’t lie to the community with great regularity, then continuously run away from factually documented refutation of those lies.
That was definitely an oversight on my part. I can respect someone who stands and faces their interlocutors (there’s our word for the day). It’s considerably harder to do so when the person drops a turd in the midst of a conversation and then runs off. The standalone diaries are just the same post in diary form. That strikes me as a form of abuse of the diary feature. Good thing this blog has no mods, as I suspect there is a lot of that behavior that would be ended in a hurry.
Double-spamming of virtually everything, none of which even merited “single-spamming” in the first place.
Nothing to say worth saying, but insists on saying it anyway . . . then doubling down.
the practice of commenting and then copying and pasting the same material as a “standalone diary” would be viewed as a form of self-plagiarism. Self-plagiarism is looked upon as a sin, whether done unintentionally or intentionally (AG’s is clearly the latter). There’s clearly some transgression of blogging ethics going on.
In the meantime, given the circumstances, I’ll simply rec any diary that is not AG’s just to minimize the damage being done. That’s not hard to do at the moment. Frank Schnittger has posted very rarely lately but has been quite informative about Brexit and the EU, massappeal is on a roll with his/her series of diaries on nonviolent action, and we can always count on boran2 to have more progress on his artwork. Given the low number of diaries and the relatively minimal traffic, all it takes is a single person to rec a diary to get it recommended. And with the exception of AG, at least we know that the content is original, informative, and noninflamatory.
Oh yeah – Neon Vincent has been updating an occasional series on dying shopping malls that itself has been informative. Someone named joelado has offered some immigration-related diaries. There is some quality stuff. I hope to see more. I hope to find time to produce something of value – the finding the time thing is a bit tricky.
Take a flying leap you sad little corncob.
Yeah!!!
There’s your “community!!!”
Thanks, marduk.
You’re always good for a laugh.
AG
Other people can represent “the community”. I’m not “the community”.
I have one position on online discussions and trolling:
You don’t do this. You literally never do this. You misrepresent yourself, you misrepresent your opinion, you lie about what other people believe, and you deny the existence of facts completely.
Even if you were just a delusional conspiracy theorist that would be acceptable because at least it would be possible to engage with the craziness. But it’s not possible to engage because you’re an inveterate liar.
A group…or perhaps better, a cadre…of people on this site have tried everything in their power to discourage criticism of the Democratic Party as it stands today. They automatically downrate such posts and have endlessly attacked several posters as liars, fools, pro-Trump trolls and/or spreaders of Russian propaganda. When effectively rebutted, they simply ignore the rebuttal and repeat the same attacks. These McCarthyite tactics are intended to exhaust the patience of the attacked posters and discourage others from reading or posting similar material. It has worked on a few posters, who have simply given up. It has not worked on me. I initially answered their attacks with attempts at reason. After realizing that this was a total waste of time, I pretty much stopped replying to them. My comments and articles on this site are my replies. Read what I have to say; consider what they have to say and how it is said, and then make up your own minds. Thank you-AG
Replying with one of the many lies you’re being criticised for is just too perfect.
Read my latest standalone post.
It’s about people like you.
CJ Hopkins Pins it. How Liberals Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the New McCarthyism
Tah tah…
AG
WATB
wah wah wah
. . . the following statement to many of my replies to your “standalone articles” (LOL!) and comments…for the benefit of new readers here. It applies to the comment that replies to as well:
*[ref.]
Also too, STILL waiting, liar!
link
link
The horrific news is now pouring out like a firehose. There is no continuity, only a semblance of grit from some like Coates and perhaps Wray. The seasawing is astounding.
Today I listen to Coates’ response to Andrea Mitchell’s breaking news that Trump asked Bolton to set up a WH Fall meeting. He gagged then replied, ‘well isn’t that special’.
Yesterday’s NYT piece tells everyone definitively that Trump has known Putin rigged the game for him and Trump covered for him. But today I hear the DHS Sec say with sly ambivalence that she’s seen no evidence that there wasn’t interference for both sides.
And like you say, the Senate votes 98-0 to protect American govt employees, but simultaneously the House GOP votes to deny a subpoena bringing in the translator to testify or to even let her be debriefed by the IC.
Bad enough that lines are blurred whether this admin is for or against us.
Indeed, the seesawing and whiplash are crazy but there has nevertheless been real continuity in two areas: 1) Trump’s voters are absolutely with him all the way no mattter how badly he behaves and how badly they are personally affected and 2) because of (1) the House GOP is solid with Trump all the way and even most GOP Senators (at least in actually refusing to act). This resolution, which would never have been needed in any other administration in history is one of the few such that have passed in the Senate against Trump and it didn’t have one GOP Senator sponsor. Disgraceful.
Meanwhile, the Republicans blocked funding for election security, blocked bringing in the interpreter for questioning, etc.
Apologies if this is a dumb question, but how could McFaul be “turned over” or “delivered” to the Russians, without arresting him? And what basis would they have for doing that?
. . . I’m stupid, too.
AFAICT, there’s only one say: extraordinary rendition from American soil. Which I doubt they could get away with, without simultaneously declaring a state of martial law.
So yeah, that wasn’t going to happen. This time. But this is how they work, right? You push the envelope, pull back, then push a little less far, do it enough times that it seems like it’s no big deal to the opposition, and next thing you know, BLM activists are being sent to Gitmo. That’s their playbook.
“there’s only one way”. way, not say.
Good Lord. Putin gave the donald a hit list that included the ambassador. Think about that. That proves the donald has no idea what the rule of law is. McFaul and everyone on that list need to eliminate tea from their diets.
What next? Vlad the Bad comes to DC to instruct Don the Con on how to use novichok? I wish I could say I was being snarky.
In other news of the weird, Right Wing Watch reports that the League of the South is making overtures to the Russian Federation. It’s not their first overture. Here’s their statement:
The rest of the article notes that these are hardly the only extreme right-wingers to be showing a lot of love to Putin these days. Some serious cray-cray goin’ on.
The Russians are working hard to encourage that kind of thing. Read the Mariia Butina affidavit for examples of how hard the Russians are cultivating the NRA people, the National Prayer Breakfast, and Christian Right leaders.
Want to bet that when Putin comes they have a private meeting in the Oval Office? For two hours? With the Daily Brief on the coffee table?
.
The Klan traditionally hated Slavs [Russians] with a fervor that included their religion (Russian Orthodox).
But then I guess that was then and now is now. Color trumps society, religion, culture and food.
Aleksandr Dugin, who has some currency in Russia as a theorist if not as a government official, pushes a theory of Eurasianism that among other things promises a network of racially/ethnically pure Christian nations, in which those uppity women are kept in their place and all those Western values of egalitarianism are swept into the dustbin of history. From a right-wing nationalist perspective, what’s not to love? The euphemistically named Alt-Right loves this guy and what he is pushing.