Stuff like this gives me violent fantasies.
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) on Saturday downplayed renewed scrutiny over whether President Trump knew in advance about his son’s meeting with a Russian lawyer offering dirt on Hillary Clinton before the 2016 election, saying “nobody’s going to be surprised.”
Issa was pressed by Fox News’s Neil Cavuto during an interview on whether Trump could face legal consequences if proof emerges that he knew about the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting that was billed to Donald Trump Jr. as “part of Russia and its government’s support” for Trump.
“If he’s proven to have not told the whole truth about the fact that campaigns look for dirt, and if someone offers it, you listen to them, nobody’s going to be surprised,” Issa told Cavuto. “There are some things in politics that you just take for granted.”
It’s okay. I’m going to walk into the woods and blow some shit up.
I’ll feel better then.
Stupid arrogance is all he’s got left to defend with.
History will remember him as dishonest from beginning to end. This statement gives him creds to be in the same prison cell as the other traitors.
. . . as a thing could be, given it follows a pattern well-established at this point:
Oliver Wills captured the dynamic nicely in a tweet:
. . . to being corrupt.
Forget it Jake. It’s Darrell Issa.
You’re missing something from your entire view of what’s going on with Russia. I’m going to go back to something David Frum said recently. “If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
There is an an implicit thing said here. We know conservatives cannot win democratically. This means anyone who has any conservative goals has to abandon democracy. There’s another thing left out. Which is when people become convinced that the government of their country will not implement their ideological goals, they will turn to outside help.
Social conservatives, religious conservatives, tax haters, oligarchs, 2A fanatics, the entire right really has reached this point over one issue or another. The only option they have to get the key items they want is to abandon democracy and turn to a foreign government ally strong enough to combat our own government so they can implement their goals.
The reality is this, we either give them what they want or they will ally with Russia to get rid of democracy so they can implement it on their own and never worry about having to give it up.
We’ve been in a cold civil war for a long time, this was inevitable. There is no resolution for this that does not involves splintering the nation or actual violence.
For some it was the New Deal, for some it was civil rights, for some it was the sexual revolution, for some it was gay rights. But each group has one item there that is worth working with Russia and tearing down the country for. The only way to hold it is to give up one part of it to try and pry some off.
And if you aren’t willing to either sacrifice the economic or the social agenda to them, then you need to accept the fact that we are in a cold civil war. And that means electoral attacks, partnering with foreign powers, economic warfare against states of the other party, are all the permanent norm and the side that does not engage in them is going to lose and be shut out of power permanently.
Unless this situation explodes into blood in the streets (as situations have in this country before) this will end with partnering with Russia to win elections is OK because it was done for the good of America. It’s already starting for the mid terms with Russian involvement and the threat that if Democrats win it wasn’t legal. There are tacit threats from centrists of letting Trump win again if the economic left keeps gaining power with each win.
Open your eyes, it is much worse than you are willing to admit and has been for a long time. They are being very open about this. We aren’t at the point where electing a Hitler by colluding is OK, we are to the point where it is being hailed as an act of saving America and it is to be applauded.
Historical precedent.
I’d be curious to see what these look like…
Bloomberg threatening to run if the wrong people win, the CEO of Starbucks doing the same. The articles that Trump will win again in 2020 if people like AOC keep winning elections and push their agenda.
This isn’t the center “fear mongering” because they are scared. This is them straight up telling us what they will do to throw the election to the R’s unless the Democrats reign in the economic left. It’s not pearl clutching, it’s implicit and explicit threats stated politely and with the proper decorum.
There’s a reason Pelosi has to state that we are capitalists. Because while centrists may not be able to win an election they can cost us one. And they are making it clear that many economic issues are deemed out of bounds enough that they will do it even if it secures another term for Trump.
Meh. Bloomberg threatens to run every go-round.
It’s what he does.
CEO of Starbucks and a quarter will get you a ride on the subway — but they don’t have subways in Iowa.
Mistah Debs — he dead.
Yes, and I’d say the reason Bloomberg always eventually decides against running is that he realizes he’d only be a spoiler.
Bloomberg has never intended to be a spoiler. He says he’s going to run because he truly wants to be president. He quits because he has little support.
Don’t forget, Bloomberg made a speech endorsing Hillary at the 2016 Democratic convention.
His threats were to Sanders not Clinton.
I truly want to be the Celtics’ new power forward.
Don’t forget, Bernie Sanders made a speech endorsing Hillary.
If you don’t think his examples are persuasive, think COINTELPRO and ask yourself how many liberals voted to support it. Think “Patriot Act” and ask yourself how many liberals voted to pass it. Chicago, a completely liberal town, had a Red Squad for years. So did Milwaukee.
And COINTELPRO is not a trivial analogy. In the space of just a few years, it was spectacularly successful in blowing the Black Panther Party to smithereens — factional fighting within and between chapters across the organization, many leaders indicted or jailed for long periods, others assassinated. Google “Fred Hampton” if you’re too young to be up on this stuff. And the reason it’s not trivial is that the BPP in the early/mid ’60s experienced phenomenal growth; anybody could join and many did, among them numerous spies and provocateurs. The BPP was fundamentally naive, they did not see that coming and they essentially believed — they never would have admitted this in so many words but their actions prove otherwise — they essentially believed that radical change would be protected by the Constitution and that their opponents would “play fair” while their power was taken away. And that’s the same situation that the Democratic Socialists of America are in now, and the same mistake that they’re making.
“But.. but… stuff like COINTELPRO is illegal now!” Bullshit. When they need to make it legal again, it’ll be legal. All of phone records they’ll need to get it stood up with a quickness are sitting right there. And the liberals like Pelosi will vote for it, and never blink.
In the 1920’s it was the Palmer raids. In the 1950’s it was McCarthy. In the 1970’s it was COINTELPRO. This is what liberals do — they don’t take the point on this but they do go along with it, and those of us on the left of a certain age see it and we remember. Liberals may be our temporary allies but they are not our friends.
<blockqoute> Liberals may be our temporary allies but they are not our friends.
Call me back when you’ve got the votes.
All politics is coalition politics…
You missed the more interesting point of his comment, which was:
You think old Uncle Joe Biden is going to come roaring back in 2020 with the 3.0 version of “Better Together” and generate a groundswell of support? You think the plan of stuffing all the leftover toothpaste of Obamacare back in the tube will get people marching to the polls? This is what the liberal centrists will be bringing in 2020. Don’t be so sure you’ll have the votes yourself.
Wow did you miss the point of that comment.
I like how the “Splitting the vote between true progressives and lamesters will only deliver the election to Trump” argument is brought up just before the “One false move, and we’ll split the vote between true progressives and lamesters and deliver the election to Trump” argument.
Leggett not ready to endorse Jealous; some other Democrats are tepid
I’m shocked!!!
Shocked, I say!!!
AG
Not what I meant at all, and that’s not how it works.
What I do expect is a massive media campaign that the Democratic party has moved dangerously to the left on economic issues to frighten the easily frightened and highlight to upper middle class and rich social liberals that their pockets could be on the line.
I expect socially liberal but regulation and tax adverse corporate entities and super rich to hold their donations to Democrats out of raw self interest while trying to make it up through socially progressive gestures outside of politics which typically works if you target the right identity interests and gets you a free pass.
I expect a bloody primary with no holds barred between the better off blue zip codes and the worse off blue zip codes where the better of zip codes campaign on the same “horrors” the centrists did. I expect a nasty candidate in the primary with the sole goal of screaming about this stuff.
I’ll give a 50/50 on an actual centrist spoiler candidate running in the general on a strongly anti Trump but “don’t touch business” platform if they have to do it.
I expect Schumer and Pelosi and the rest of the establishment to waffle between agreeing with all of this, looking the other way, or making tepid complaints off and on.
And I expect all of this is enough to cost an election. And I expect the take away that will be in all the press and screamed from the mountain tops will be that “when you try to change the economic status quo Nazi’s win and this is all the fault of the left”.
I’m on the border between genx and the millenials. And I can state that my views on the republican party, the democratic party, and the political landscape are far from uncommon among those of us on the left. The democrats are as much the party of FDR as the republicans are the party of Lincoln. May have been true at some point, it sure as shit is not now. Our future was stolen from us and while the R’s may have been worse here the D’s gave enough to go along every single time but claim that really, deep down in their heart of hearts, they didn’t want to but it was for own good or it would have been worse.
When every vote of your life has been “bad democrat vs Nazi” you either lose complete faith in the system and mentally check out or become convinced the only solution is to burn the entire thing down and hope something better rises from the ashes.
Sure in the end you vote “correctly”. But having to choose between a fossil fuel Nazi party, and the party with a lock on the city of finance (NYC) and the city of big tech (SF) is like having gun put to your head every two or four years. “Vote for the slow boil instead of the fast boil or gays, women, and minorities will be turned over to fascists” is a motivator, but it’s one that will turn people on you quickly.
There is a lot of rage out there on both the left and the right in generation. I don’t think what we are seeing is so much enthusiasm on the left as a realization we first have to conquer and take out our own side, then we have to crush the center, and only then will we able to confront the right properly.
I think “the center” as it is damn well realizes this.
I am not sure I follow. Actually that is what I thought he said or at least a part of it?
Leon Blum says ‘Hello’ (Actually he says ‘Bonjour!’)
Absolutely.
Thank you.
DC centrist BAO.
Business As Usual.
On both sides of the “center.”
That’s how we got into this pickle in the first place.
(Emphases mine.)
Again…precisely.
Thank you, solitaire.
You nailed it.
AG
A.G. is all in on agreeing with you. That should tell you something.
Debate the points I’ve made. Not that someone I don’t know may agree with some of them.
That’s what you call points? Neither “party” is much of the real Democratic Party.
That is your actual agenda, damage the Democratic Party as much as possible. We have other people posting here with the same agenda.
Bingo!
It’s the start of election season. Time for the `Only True Progressives’ to come out from under the bridge to explain how voting for the democrats is a wasted vote.
.
Bullshit.
I’ve voted D in every election since I could vote in 2000 and I still intended to. The other option is just that bad.
None of that means my eyes are closed as to what I voted for and what my options are. If you can’t see that both Trump and AOC are related and stem from the same rage and that the system cannot hold you’re blind.
loss because we don’t have a future and throw you all under
Ralph Nader taught me all I need to know about your tribe quite a while ago.
I cited evidence that this isn’t some fever dream concocted up by lefties. It’s literally happening in a gubernatorial race.
Wait, what do you think is happening? A few local pols are holding out on endorsing? Give me a break.
A few local pols…like the leader of the chambers, who also praises Hogan? Give me a break. You guys act like Cuomos and such are an anomaly when they are a clear problem to advancing goals down the field. I’m not worried about this problem arising nationally…yet.
And you act as though we have not seen this `Democrats in disarray’ or `both sides are the same, but democrats are far, far worse’ theme before.
Same people, same themes.
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That narrative is well known and tired, and it’s why I laughed when I read about Third Way being the group consistently cited in all of those pieces recently. That shows opposite of actual disarray since no one is listening to them and they’re whining about it to the media. But that’s not the same thing as state party leaders being active hindrances when the shoe is on the other foot as normal. This is what’s called “coalitions”, and it’s the opposite of domination politics. Tired of the “bend the knee” rhetoric one side or the other.
I’m sorry, the state party leadership is NOT being a hindrance. The article you cited lists ONE person, a COUNTY EXECUTIVE, refusing to endorse.
The rest is all “tepid support” and “doesn’t agree on all issues” bullshit. Classic “Dems in disarray” garbage.
Could you cite where someone said, or wrote `bend the knee’? Or is that just a rhetorical device? Because from where I sit, it’s a needless escalation without actual examples.
Yes, it would be terrific to remove all politics from politics. But politics, at its core, is the accumulation of power, and influence, in order to advance goals. So fiefdoms are created, and then when the political message changes (sometimes good, sometimes bad) to reflect changing times, some politicians are compelled to protect their fiefdom.
It’s politics.
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Rhetorical device popularized on twitter, and wasn’t even accusing anyone here of doing it.
Ok so if it’s politics stop whining about purity lefties.
Whining?
After I tried to speak to you as an..
Never mind.
.
Cuomo is absolutely a problem. A different problem. The fact that a few dems haven’t endorsed this guy yet means literally nothing.
. . . an existential threat, those priorities are exactly reversed. They amount to grousing against the insufficient purity of others in the bucket brigade as the house burns down.
. . . your de-friending of us.
While I’m thinking of it, here’s a pretty good stab at defining “liberalism”, at least American-style (which is too narrow for liberalism writ large, but a reasonable start):
No kulaks, no good.
The articles opposing the leftists are coming from the media, which mostly serves right-wing interests. They don’t have much real support (there was a Third Way meeting quite recently, and the attendee list was quite a joke – red state State Senators and 2nd string has-beens). The point of those articles is a) to split the Trump opposition and b) to make the Democrats less likely to support left positions, which are in some (not all) cases quite popular and in almost all cases inimical to the rightwing corporate interests that control the media.
Me too.
AG
I don’t know about the threats but some of the dems have moved further left than the conservatives have moved right according to Pew Research. The Dems are quite far apart now.
This is a very cogent interpretation of the position of diehard Trump supporters.
It could cause a lot of trouble. But it’s important to realize that strong opposition to Trump is much firmer than strong support of him.
In the same vein.
Another sign.
This was also the case in the 2016, more people disliked him than liked him. It didn’t matter then and I’ve yet to see anything convincing that will change now.
People may not like Trump. But they will vote taxes, Christianity, and their ethnic tribe and support that to the hilt.
Keep in mind that Putin and Russia are wildly popular among the right. It’s a pro fossil fuel business that promotes white people and Christianity in it’s own country and opposes Islam and homosexuality globally. In that aspect it’s a better nation with better values compared to the US to the right.
Their gripe was always atheist communism, that ain’t the Russia of today.
Be that as it may, Trump didn’t win the election so much as Hillary lost it.
If the Dems nominate another Hillary, I will have to agree with you.
But now we are looking at the midterm elections. There are a lot of new factors at play.
It’s not about collusion. It’s about the price of collusion. It’s about why are there Russians under every rock in the Trump campaign, and what do they want and what leverage do they have. It’s the lying about it that makes these questions important.
I weirdly have to agree with Issa — no, I will NOT be surprised if evidence comes out that Trump colluded with Russia; in fact I EXPECT it.
However, that does minimize the wrongdoing itself — it just means we finally have prosecutable evidence!
I fully expect evidence to come out that Trump colluded with Russia. I full expect evidence to come out that Christian events and organizations like the prayer breakfast and various groups are riddled with Russian money and Russians. I fully expect the same of the NRA. I fully expect the same of multiple right wing groups.
And I fully expect the counter argument to be that nothing is wrong. That it is patriotic and right to do all of this in pursuit of keeping America America against encroaching liberalism. That this sort of stuff happens all the time. That the global left and global right do work together so what the hell is the problem. That Russia, due to Christian and western values, is not the actual enemy here.
We’ve had the rise of the global “liberal order” since WW2. What we are seeing now is the rise of the global right to throw it off.
Keep in mind that a huge portion of Trumps voters think that Russian style “traditional values”, fighting Islam, oligarchy, promotion of white people, is what we were and correct. And that he is the true leader of the actual west.
Far from damning Trump when Mueller proves collusion. It will have proved Trump made the right decision and cast his lot with the right team to them.
You spell it out so well. Thank you. It’s why I have no time for lefties or centrists going back on any of their bullshit.
They have already started with it
My guess is the average Trump supporter probably knows very little about Russia, although Putin does use a number of themes to help him retain power that undoubtedly would resonate well with the Republican’s racist, religious, and/or misogynistic base. But what Putin actually says to his people is more of a Russian nationalistic one that I doubt would go over too well with most Republicans if they actually listened to it, which of course they won’t.
I think that what’s been created pre-collusion is really just as an important issue- we have a political party that has become cult like, votes in lockstep, and has been encased with an almost impenetrable protective propaganda wrapper to keep the rubes loyal. All of this was created with American money, by American billionaires, to advance their narrow political interests. What it has in common with the Russian meddling is that the Republicans have deliberately created a very exploitable election system.
Hopefully, Mueller will get to the full story about Trump’s conspiracy with the Russians- by many accounts, their effort was pretty significant, at least resource wise on their side, with hundreds of people working on the troll farms alone. Obviously any interference in our elections by a foreign power is not acceptable. But still, when you add up all of the money spent by the various right wing billionaires to get their radical agendas implemented over the years, I’m sure it dwarfs whatever Putin and his oligarch cronies ponied up this cycle and I really hope Democrats remember that they have plenty of domestic enemies as well if they gain power again.
I really don’t think any thing Mueller says will get Trump out short of him having shot someone on 5th avenue, even if the dems pull a miracle and control congress. The only hope we have is through the election process and on that score, I too, am pessimistic if for now other reason than that more people either don’t care or don’t understand. But hey, I enjoy all the news reports and blogs on how bad Trump and his Russian friends are. And the lies, hell yeah the never ending lies and changes of position. One day this, next day that. It is all part of the game. I think it foreshadows what will happen given a good guess on the ultimate goal.
So these are the leading feelers in the big effort coming to blur the distinction between what apparently did occur with the Trump campaign in 2016 and ‘normal’ opposition research, which in the case of the Steele dossier involved the use of a contractor employing a foreigner by proxies of the Clinton campaign. I think it’s important to point out that the Trump campaign conspired with a foreign military to conduct psyops on the American people. By any layperson’s definition that’s treason.
. . . the current “reporting” re: the Steele dossier (though, oddly, it was noted briefly in the initial flurry of reporting when the dossier became public; then inexplicably flushed down the memory hole):
It was reportedly initially contracted as Banana Republican “oppo research” against Trump by one of the 16 other Banana Republican clowns originally occupying the Clown Car of the Banana Republican 2016 primaries (though I forget which and am too lazy at the moment to look it up).
Then, when whichever Clown that was dropped out, Dems, for all practical purposes, simply bought out the existing contract.
This is not irrelevant trivia, though now treated as such by the Worse-Than-Useless Corporate Media.
I mean, since you’re back to abusing the ratings (after, what was it, a 5-minute pause?), you could at least do a “better” job. Slacker!
There was a comic’s routine about stupidly obvious signage “in America, you can’t say we didn’t warn you”. Obviously they’re trying to get out in front of things and defuse them, but wow, basically admitting to the crimes. After almost two years of this the hypocrisy remains breathtaking, quite a feat, I’m in awe (in a bad way).
I’m so old I remember R’s calling us Russia lovers – did the projection start that far back?
The GOP slogan: “We Welcome Our New Russian Overlords!” Only a matter of time before my neighbors are all proudly displaying the Russian Federation flag next to the usual Confederate flag on their front lawns. What a wonderful world…
It’s not project and never was. Things changed.
When Republicans hated Russia it was an atheist workers state that was causing trouble for the US about it’s treatment of it’s ethnic minority citizens. The new Russia is an oligarchy that promotes white Christians and attacks homosexuality on the world stage while the American state department threatens to pull funding from nations that attack their own minority or homosexual populations.
If you were a conservative Russia used to be against everything you valued. If you are conservative today America is against everything you value and Russia is the only global power capable of helping you that is holding your values against America.
Conservatives didn’t go away or change. America changed around them, against their will, and told them to shut up and get with the times. The liberal order convinced itself that liberal social progress and the new order was the natural and inevitable future. That was always a delusion. Putin saw a power gap and people yearning for a different order based on how things used to be and he stepped into that gap. We shouldn’t be shocked that the global right has welcomed him with open arms and accepted his help in a return to power.
If you are faced with a choice of submission and the permanent removal of all value and hold true to a power elite you resent and resents you back and the only other option is working with a different power elite that will give you everything you asked you’d be a fool not to take their offer.
Again, we’ve been at a cold civil war for a while. Not accepting this fact and not accepting that we have to treat our internal opponents as hostile nation is ceding the fight to them for the sake of decorum and a moral high ground that frankly the right has never believed in.
The centrists like Chuck, Nancy and Joe offer nothing to those on the left but paplum. That can’t hold forever. Eventually the anti Russian agenda will fall apart as I suspect it is already. The democratic socialists are already rattling their cages. They want something more and Sanders and Alexandria, for all their faults, are leading the charge.
When are the barricades going up?
I want to clear my calendar.
And here is Sanders, leading the charge!
.
They won’t broadcast the time except to those who need to know. Do you need to know?
Nancy Pelosi, centrist? DW-Nominate has her as the 43rd most progressive member of the house. It was thanks to her efforts that Obamacare passed when the rest of the party was looking to bail out. Apparently words have no meaning anymore.
Centrist is hurled as an insult most of the time on the Internet tubes these days. My impression is that it’s used mindlessly. I’m sure that one could provide links to Pelosi’s voting record, her record as Speaker, and as Majority Leader, and that would be ignored – confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. By the way, I can say all that and note that I have had my differences with Pelosi’s leadership. But “centrist”? Good luck to those trying to defend that statement, assuming those accusing her of such offer a coherent definition of “centrist”.
As I write the above, I am wondering: we have a right-wing authoritarian in the White House enabled by right-wing authoritarians who control Congress at the moment. One would think the prudent thing to do is actually – oh, I don’t know – expend some energy in fighting that particular battle over the next few months.
Who are, in many cases, susceptible to leverage from foreign authoritarians such as Putin, others. As are, in many cases, other Conservative power players such as the NRA etc. – see Butina, Maria.
. . . leftier-than-thous (even far-rightwing glibertarians like ag, who just lies/pretends to be “progressive”) is essentially meaningless beyond conveying negative feelings; i.e., could just as well substitute “poopyhead”.
Thus joining the linguistic ranks of “neoliberal”.
. . . actually having a pretty clear and specific meaning, is fine used to describe people/proposals that are, in fact, actually neoliberal.
But hard to argue it, too, doesn’t get thrown around recklessly, including by people with only the most tenuous grasp on its actual meaning, to the point its usefulness for communication is compromised.
Because I always hate seeing language debased in this way, my bias is always “use the term to mean what it means, contest misuses of it, but don’t give in to the forces working hard at making it meaningless”. Useful, meaningful words are just too valuable to go along with that, if you can help it. But, yeah, eventually it can become a lost cause. Not convinced we’re there yet with “neoliberal”, but maybe.
Yes, it’s a pity to see a word shitcanned by improper usage, but for me at least “neoliberal” has been degraded beyond redemption into “poopyhead” territory, at least in these environs.
That is a shame, as it is a term with a legitimate academic use. I tried to make some note of that in these here parts, and we’ll just say the effort did not go very well. Apparently linking to preprints of peer-reviewed articles based on doctoral dissertations is just not good enough. That all said, if you ever read me using neoliberal, be aware that I will be using it in a legit academic sense, and likely noting the limitations to that academic usage.
. . . and work within them towards your goals (including the goal of transforming those Realities in the ways you think needed).
2. Lose.
This is Reality I often don’t like, but understand I can’t avoid, cuz, well, Reality is Reality. It imposes itself whether I like it or not.
Case in point: in our June primary, we Dems nominated Kathleen Williams to (hopefully) take out reporter-assaulting convicted-criminal Rep. Greg Giantasshole. She was my choice, but I’d have been happy with any of the top 3 Dem finishers as incomparable improvements over Giantasshole.
Heard on the local NPR affiliate within the last week or so that Williams had released an ad in which she pledged not to vote for Pelosi for Speaker. This infuriated me. Yet I get it. This is purple-leaning-red MT, where she’ll need votes from some folks who’ve internalized Fox et al. propaganda irrationally demonizing Pelosi in order to rid us of Giantasshole. Still, it galls me to see them succeed in defining the narrative and limiting Williams’ future options in this way. And to see her accepting that.
Why would one not expect a piece of shit like Issa not to normalize treason?