Can we please – please, please, please – start a substantive conversation on race in America? There are ground rules though – no kicking, screaming, eye-gouging or biting allowed. All participants have to agree not to put on silly hats or funky bandanas and march around with crosses or guns. Think I’m being facetious? OK – try having this discussion without the accompanying folderol. Someone always has to start the button pushing – and immediately the ears close, the mouths open and for all intents and purposes we might as well be at a Jerry Springer taping.
Well this shit has to stop. If it doesn’t, we face the kind of internal civil war that will make any WTO protests begin to resemble water balloon fights. Everybody is teetering on the verge of getting monumentally pissed – and those crosses and guns might end up being replaced with much scarier weapons. Not possible, says you? Where have you been lately? Spend much time in trees, do you? Oh, I know – you’re one of our many fellow Americans who trundle on through life as if living in the antebellum south. Well things, they are a’ changin’ – and you’d better join in the discussion now, my dears; or trust me – you will end up staring at the chaos that surrounds you in smothered in confusion, wondering just how in hell we all got to this point.
Let’s start with the overt behaviors – I am constantly amazed by all the idiots who think because we share a skin tone, we must therefore share the exact same racist thoughts. As a matter of fact since Katrina, I have heard more bullshit regarding class, culture and race than in the last five years combined. I remember a time I was trapped on the `L’ heading into Chicago from the airport. This dreadful man just started spewing garbage about how much he hated every African-American person on the train. Even after I told him to shut the fuck up – he continued – droning on, and on. The bastard followed me as I moved from seat to seat in an attempt to escape. God! No matter what I said, he just kept on talking, as if I really wasn’t there; as if his need to vent superseded everyone else’s civil and human rights. I finally just got off and caught another train. By the way – haven’t you noticed that incidents such as this are on the rise? I have heard unbelievably outrageous comments from neighbors, store clerks – even some asshole standing next to me in line. I most always say something; tell the person why they’re wrong, or just to go get bent – even though I know any attempt to change such small minds is a total waste. It reminds me of something Heinlein said – Never try to teach a pig to sing; because it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Well those minds had damn well better change – and soon. We are letting ourselves down as human beings if we allow such ignorance to continue. We are also letting America down. Just look at the reactions to Katrina for your answer. We really need to talk, folks – on a national level – about why the have-nots in America are almost always someone of color. About why gender and race are inextricably linked when it comes to equal pay for equal work. About why young, male African Americans make up such a high percentage of incarcerations in this country. All important subjects, all barely touched on whenever the issue of race comes up. I could hope to say this constant avoidance amazes me – but unfortunately it does not. Too many years, too much stupidity for that. It does seem, however, that peoples true feelings are surfacing over this emphasis on color; on whether or not the ethnicity of those poor bastards seen begging for help while knee-deep in contaminated water merits discussion. Hello!! The answer is yes, of course it does – they were left to rot, are still being left to rot – and that will always be wrong by any sort of measure.
Do you all know what the loss will be if our nation drives itself to the brink of class warfare? For all of us? God – even the thought of something like that happening has me near folded over with grief. So, what’s the answer? What has turned seemingly intelligent, compassionate people towards the stereotypical (re: simple)? Is it fear? Because I really can’t think of anything else that elicits such overt reactions. And if so – if all this really is about being afraid – of what? What is so scary about equality for EVERYBODY? Today is the anniversary of Rosa Parks historic, shattering ride through a segregated town in Alabama. We honor her courage in our nations Capitol, while kicking to the curb everything she and that ride stood for. So – does ethnicity impact how we see both our country and our lives? The answer seems to be yes; and that just about breaks my heart.
Cross-posted at dKos and MyDD
Don’t forget – today is blog against racism day!
Hear! Hear!
I’m so glad you posted this, and pointed out that it’s blog against racism day–I’m kind of blogged out myself, tho I do have a few things in the works….will likely save them for another day!
Thank you, indeed. It ain’t over….till the fat lady sings. So can you let us know when you start singing? 😉
Highly rec’d.
Nearly everybody, if not everybody, in American society is socialized to have at least some racist ideas, perspectives, and/or feelings. Most people are socialized to avoid expressing them publicly in blatantly obvious ways.
In American society, individuals often treat non-white people differently – worse – than they would whites. Sometimes this is because they just plain don’t like non-whites. Sometimes it is because they have bought into a culture, a structure, that systematically treats non-whites worse than whites. In the latter case, often no malice is intended. But that doesn’t make much difference to the non-whites who are affected by the actions.
I am white. I believe the responsibility that white people have is twofold:
Even if I have best friends who are black, and so on and so forth… I benefit from a culture of automatically giving preference to white people over black people. If I benefit from racism, I know about it, and I do nothing to stop it, I am morally culpable myself.
In short, it’s all about action…
The really hard part is figuring out what action. So far I am working pretty well at #1 and tend to get stumped when I get to #2. But I am working on it.
Totally agree with you on this part; even the most well meaning and educated of us are still part of an overall structure that includes differential treatment and circumstances based on race. I benefit every day from simply being born white, and largely on the historical and present day backs of people of color; that’s true whether I like it or not, and whether my individual and direct actions are intended that direction or not.
That’s an important thing for people to realize; I think that way too many people honestly believe that if they’re not directly racist, then they’re somehow magically outside of the racist structure.
Even getting people to recognize this, though, is an uphill battle IMO. I try my ass off in that regard, and the bulk of the white people I talk to about it simply respond with “well, it’s not my fault.”. Which is utterly, utterly missing the point.
As to your problem #2, I have this problem as well. Racism is so integral to our whole culture and the history that produced it at this point that I’m really not sure you can simply weed it out without tearing down the whole bloody thing. If you start thinking about its links with class, its importance in defining what have become valuable subcultures largely via self-segregation, start getting into the gender/race/class matrix and so forth, this becomes the kind of thing that, while I can wrap my brain around, I still have absolutely no friggin’ idea what to do about it. I’m not terribly hopeful in that regard.
Part of it is the words I think… I had trouble with this concept when I was first introduced to it. I knew that Racism Is Bad. When people tried to explain to me that racism wasn’t just calling people the n-word, they completely lost me at the outset because they started off by saying, “You are too racist, because…”
My response was to completely shut down. No. No way. I’m not racist. I don’t hate anyone. Racists lynch people and mow them down with fire hoses and sic dogs on them, I don’t do that, I don’t agree with that, I am NOT RACIST, LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU…
That was how it was for me, anyway.
response — you aren’t alone there.
I have tried shifting from beginning with “But really, you ARE racist….” to “Whether you are aware of it or not, you benefit from white privledge.” Sometimes, I still get the defensive, nuh-uh, not me reaction (but not as often), but I then tell them a story or two about my experiences at the welfare and medicaid offices — it was SO fucking blatant there, even with the socila workers of color — at times I wanted to scream at them: “Is this woman invisible to you?! She is standing right here!!”
Of course, the extent of the deference they treated me because I am white had it’s limits as well, after all, I was there for benefits, so I must have been a lazy, shiftless piece of shit in any case. Especially, when they got me back i the private conference rooms and discovered I was pursuing a Ph.D>, unmarried with a kiddo, well, then I magically tranformed into a selfish, underserving piece of shit….anyhow, I’ll have to write a diary about that someday, but it is amazing that people can be blind to it. In some cases the actions that are not as blantant are even more disgusting to me because the people aren’t even AWARE — at least a Grand Dragon in the KKK is fully aware of his hatred.
I’ve only had one diet coke today… tomorrow, none… this headache is YOUR FAULT.
I am drinking lots of water though. 😛
As to your experiences, I can only imagine. In nyneve’s health care thread the other day I mentioned my experience when I got pneumonia and was unemployed with no insurance. During the 3 days it took me to find a doctor who would see me I tried calling some free/cheap clinics and the like. One of them when I asked the lady who answered the phone if they were taking new patients… she laughed at me. I felt like crawling under the futon and dying right in that instant.
I don’t think she really meant to. It was just, none of those people really seemed to want to help me. And they certainly didn’t.
OMG, I feel like a total asshole now, as I sit here smoking my cigarette — wait, I’m getting a sympathy headache, does that count??
Can I suggest something? The headache that you have is most likely caffiene withdrawal, so if there is another source of caffiene that you can tolerate, have some of it to ease you through the next 5-7 days might help. The drinking of tons of water is good too — in terms of the aspertame, megadoses (1000-2000mg/day) of vitamin C is good too during this persio (actually, Vitamin C is good for all withdrawals because of the happy effects ont he immune system which helps the body get the toxins out), and if you can find some C and Zinc combo tablets, that really helps with the absorption. Might help with the headache too…
If you last longer than 4 days this time are you going to make me quit smoking??
Hey, doesn’t chocolate have caffiene?!? Hot dog!
Anyway the water helps a lot honestly. I’ll try the vitamin C and zinc. I think I even have some at home. Thanks!
As for the smoking… maybe. 🙂
You can do it — I know you can. I had a weird ass seizure after weeks of dizzy spells and faiting and the like about 17 years ago (I had never faited before in my life, and I didn’t like it one little bit!!). I didn’t have health insurance at the time, so I experiemented around with various things, looked at what I was putting in my body and did some research.
I quit drinking diet soda and chewing, oh, what the hell was that gum called?? Sugar-Free Wrigley’s of some sort, anyway, I chewed all day everyday and it was PACKED with aspertame — two weeks after I stopped, no more dizzy, never another fainting spell. I haven’t looked back….
— is that ALL tea or would you be ameanable to a suggested concoction that is really tasty? And it’s iced tea, so you can water it down or put sugar or lemon or anything you want in it (I love it all naked, but to each her own!) — if you hate all tea, I won’t bother you with it.
I just never had any tea that I liked, so I quit trying, but I’m open to trying new stuff.
Okey doke, here goes:
Get some Luizzianne (I have no idea how to spell that and I’m too lazy to go into the kitchen and look at the box) made ‘specially for iced tea bags, the big ones. While you’re there in the tea section, pick up a box of peach flavored Bigelow Green Tea bags (single serving size). Go home, find a 2 quart container, put in three of the big bags and four of the small bags and then run hot tap water into the container — if you can let it steep in the sun, great, if not, just let it sit there for a while. Pour over ice and enjoy.
This happy little drink has almost as much caffiene as your diet Coke and may have nifyt health benefits to boot!
Going through the system for food stamps or anything else is certainly an experience that isn’t conducive to making you feel good. I sometimes wonder why people get into those jobs as they seem to act as if the money is coming out of their own pockets and your trying to steal from them.
I know when I lived in Nevada due to my tiny SSD income I qualified for food stamps and had to go into the office periodically for them to ‘asses’ me..I kept telling them my disability was permanent but they all acted as if because I ‘looked’ healthy that I was somehow trying to cheat the system and was as you said a lazy, worthless piece of crap. Their attitudes ranged from indifference to downright nasty.
Then there’s the whole food stamp thing itself where you can only buy food and can’t use them to buy toilet paper, shampoo, toothpaste, cleaning items etc which are just as essential as food you’d think?..And having people behind you line in the grocery store giving you dirty looks …the whole thing one big lousy experience that compounds the humiliation of having to use food stamps in the first place.
Maybe it’s just the way I’m built, ci, but the way they treated me didn’t bother me one tenth as much as how people of color were being treated — I have tried many times to imagine how it must be to go through life having people treat you like you were invisible….the self-restraint people of color must excersise every day just floors me when I think about it!
And don’t even get me started on the fucked-up-ed-ness of food stamps — I was SHOCKED (yes, Ms. Naive, that’s why I am so lucky to have had all of the experiences I have had! lol), yes, SHOCKED to find out that you could not buy diapers with them, and none of the WIC coupons helped with the cost of diapers either — WTF? I will never understand that as long as I live, I mean, sure as shit, when you feed them, they’re going to poop! And diapers aren’t really something you can commit any kind of fraud with, or re-sell on the black diaper market! 😉
I just remembered something else: a couple of months ago, I was at a CVS store waiting at the photo counter to pick up some pictures. There was a man waiting there when I got there. I smiled at him and said, “hi” and we continued to wait for the clerk to finish up soemthing he was doing behind the counter. Now the employee was not 5 feet away from us and we could see him and I am SURE that he could see us. When he finished, he came right over to me and said “What can I do for you?”
I looked at the man who was there before me and I could tell, he wasn’t going to say anything, so I said to the clerk, “He was here before me, help him first.” The man smiled at me and I was going to leave it at that.
But, then, the clerk looked very embarassed and mumbled some half-assed insincere apology and something about about he didn’t see who was there first under his breath… so I took a deepth breath of my own and said as sweetly as possible:
“Well, I remember when I was in customer service, if there was more than one person at the counter and we didn’t know who to help, we would simply ask “Who was here first?”, it’s really the only thing to do.”
The man, who was maybe in his 50s somewhere, looked me straight in the eye and said “thank you”. I said, “My pleasure, sir.”
When I left the store I was was feeling pretty good about myself, but then I started thinking, why did he thank me? Was he just being polite in return or was there something more to it? Would a white person have thanked me? Why was I feeling so good about myself? Then, I started to feel pretty shitty that I still lived in the midst of and enjoyed the benefits of a fucked up system of bullshit in which some people are “less than” for the most bogus of reasons.
Two experiences from today involving race: I was in a public bathroom in the courthouse downtown, doing my thing in the stall when I hear a man’s voice and the door opening. I wondered for a moment if voice was that of the person entering the bathroom or just a voice from the hall as the door opened. Then I heard the unmistakable sound of a man urinating in the stall next to me and I froze, thinking that I had mistakenly walked into the men’s room. I emerged from the stall at the same time as the man (a young black guy) and we looked at each other like deer in the headlights, both of us wondering who had walked into the wrong room. Well I just cracked up and he kept apologizing (I guess realizing too late that he didn’t see any urinals and it must have been the ladies room)and it seemed that he was really worried that I’d be mad. I wondered if it was just because I was a woman or because I was a white woman. Dont’ know why I got that feeling, but boy did we get funny looks when we both emerged into the crowded waiting area.
Second thing that happened made me really uncomfortable. It was more a realization really. I am working on a court case where children are alleged to have been abused and neglected and were taken away from their mother. The family is black. And every single other person in that courtroom involved in taking the kids away was white. THe judge. The 3 social workers. Me. My boss. The 4 lawyers. Only the bailiff was black. It just made me uncomfortable to think that all of these white people were completely in control of what happens to that black family. THe white people have all the power.
Bathroom stories are always good. 🙂
I feel for that guy. I mean, think what would have happened if you’d freaked out and started shrieking or something.
I have started noticing people’s behavior on buses more. Often times black men will not sit down next to me. They will stand instead if they have to. Even if I scootch myself and my stuff over to indicate that yes, there is in fact a seat available.
I’ve been tracking a sort of similar public transit phenomenon, although here I think it’s slightly different — if I make it very clear through cues that they’re welcome to sit down, they will. The degree to which I have to make that absolutely obvious, though, with people of color, while white folks will just plunk down next to me practically on top of my stuff, is definitely noteworthy.
But the thing I’ve been noticing is the degree to which a sort of informal “blockade” forms on our light rail system; usually what will happen is that a group of Black youths, mostly young men, will sit down in a section, all talking loudly to each other and goofing off as teens will do, but the interesting part IMO is that from that point on, nobody white will pass through their circle to get to other parts of the train. As though politely passing through will undeniably invoke their ire… and we all know you don’t want to piss off young Black men, of course, from countless TV sources and otherwise.
I got a really great look from the white lady sitting next to me a while ago when one kid in a group like that recognized me from the bookstore I worked at, and came over to chat. You could see the tension on her face; of course, I know the kid and know that he’s one of the most sensitive and thoughtful gay boys I’ve run across.
So many levels going on in all of that.
Yesterday I was at the DMV waiting for my son ( and we all know what a pleasant experience that is) and I was reading a book, sitting at the end of a row of chairs. I saw the feet of a man approaching and he sat in the chair two away from me. Without looking up I instinctively reached for my bag that was on the empty chair between us. Then I looked and saw that he was black and my first was reaction was something like this “oh shit, now he’s going to think I grabbed my bag because he’s black and all black men are thieves.” So I put it back on the seat and then felt paranoid because I left it there, when instinct always tells me to protect it when a stranger approaches. I was so concerned with not appearing to be racist that I instead looked like a total idiot.
Now this is the kind of discussion we need to have! I know how you feel – you do something automatically, and then realize it could be misconstrued. God, I wish there could be a town hall-type meeting where this kind of reaction could be discussed.
on the Metro in DC. Actually I have seen people send complaints into the chats they have on the Post about rowdy teens making a lot of noise on one of the cars and then, if anyone confronts them about their disruptive behavior, they get angry and confrontational. And the adults are scared of them.
Now it’s pretty hard to know what color someone is who is sending stuff to the Washington Post online chats but I would bet anything this is a race issue an overwhelming majority of the time.
I have a little more sympathy I guess when people aren’t aware. I know it happens to all of us. If you try to point it out to people and they don’t listen, that’s another thing. Not that it’s ever an easy thing to hear. I don’t know how I would respond if anyone ever pointed out to me I had done a racist thing. I would probably be very angry.
Right, furry. Passively refraining from lynching people isn’t enough; confronting cultural stereotypes requires conscious self examination because they are prevasive, ubiquitious and virtually invisible.
University psych departments have done hundreds of studies that show systemic, unconscious racism and sexism even in people who claim pride in their egalitarianism.
My favourite is the art exhibition:
Take a random group through a gallery of paintings executed by Artist A, a white male. Ask them to critique the paintings on a 1-10 scale. Bring in another group to the same exhibit, but identify the artist as a woman or person of colour, and the scores reflect the old 3/5ths ratio; the same work, if performed by a white man is graded 40% higher.
These studies have been done for years. The same dismal results hold true for novels, musical compositions, poetry, academic papers, battle plans, highway designs, etc. The more traditionally “white male” the profession, (military, physical science, engineering), the larger the gap; women and people of colour are judged to be only half as good in those disciplines.
Why aren’t these studies front page news ? I think it’s the same reason we whitewash history; reality interfers with the Myth of America.
People have to know that they are racist in order to do anything about it. Growing up in a racist society makes us racist whether we like it or not, but once we become aware, we’re honour bound to examine how we think and react every day for the rest of our lives.
This is why I’m always advocating for my favorite revolution, a revolution of personal identity. Imo, the only way this stuff stops is when we learn to define ourselves and each other differently on a very intimate and personal level.
It is true, however, that that revolution is so complex and so far off on the horizon that it will almost certainly not take place on wide scale in our lifetimes. I’ll still push it, just like feminists pushed for equality on the prairie in the 1800s even though they knew they’d never see it personally.
As to what to do in the meantime? Open dialogue, more patience with people who are simply ignorant rather than evil, and much more organized resistance to the truly evil who forward this divisive shit on purpose.
Copper coins. 😉
You’re absolutely right, as usual.
And these are my thoughts on more hopeful days than today, as well. The question that always messes me up is exactly how to work for that revolution, which involves shifting the meaning of the whole foundation (identity) on which culture builds itself and breeds, while simultaneously that culture seems to perpetually restrengthen or work its insidious little way around any real change — turning acts of subversion on their heads, essentially subverting subversion into another force to strengthen the status quo. If that makes any sense; I haven’t had much coffee yet.
I know my chances for seeing real change are negligable. But I’d like to work on a good framework to move forward with.
Open dialogue is generally the best I can do, and I try it often. I’ve actually made some impressive progress, IMO, with some now-surprisingly-thoughtful rednecks I know. Often, it just takes getting the wheels turning, and then people can’t stop seeing the social. It’s one of those things where once it clicks, your whole perpective changes, and there’s no going back. I’m sure they curse me for that frequently.
Plus, all of this gives me a really good excuse to keep fucking with people’s neatly-categorized minds where my own identity is concerned. Always a happenin’ time.
Thats why we have to talk about this. You can’t understand something if you don’t take it out and shake it.
Answer only if you feel like it, I was just jazzed to see your name at the end of a posting, seems like it’s been a while! (of course, I am notoriously bad with time specificities, so perhaps I’m mistaken…) Anywho, good to see you!
I’ve been lurking about some, though I haven’t been online as much lately, either — I just checked my email for the first time in several weeks, damn it’s a mess. Very busy what with school, transfer applications, thanksgiving, training our puppy, girlfriends, so forth. Not to mention my winter beer drinking schedule, which is vital to keep up with.
I’ve been popping in though, just not posting much. I think I’ve been struggling with a serious brain clog. 😉
Heh — brain clog — I was just talking with Kidspeak about that! I’ve got it too in a big big way — should be dissertating right now, in fact. The winter beer drinking schedule IS a bitch to work around, isn’t it? I hear you!
😉
What’s with the “transfer applications” is you don’t mind me asking, and are you IN school or teaching it, or both?
diarist!! I’m sorry for starting a personal conversation in your diary! Tell me to take it elsewhere and I certainly will do!
so I can finally get the hell out of community college.
I’m in my 10th year as a lower division undergrad.
I’m apparently far more committed to fucking around than I am to graduation. But I’m finally getting somewhere, I think.
I have a really hard time with that balance, too; between working within the current frame of identity politics because it’s the best functional method of resistance and change for progressives, and yet striving to build something “beyond” identity politics, and not even knowing what shape that’s going to take because it’s too damn soon yet. Heh, I imagine the feminists of the prairie often felt the same way.
I don’t worry too much that subversion is turned against itself, though, because while of course that’s true, it’s not like it stops there. You know it’s an ever-expanding spiral, on and on. No being, just becoming. So when subversion is inverted, it just inverts again, unfolding into two new forms of subversion. The eternal dance.
But while we try to tease the spiral into rolling around into a favorable place for our politics again, simply tempting people toward epiphany is my typical strategy of choice as well. (That’d make a great name for an album, like Sarah McLachlan’s Fumbling Toward Ecstasy — Tempting Toward Epiphany.) And since you are astonishingly articulate as well as being so smart, it doesn’t surpise me in the least that you have success with this tactic.
I know my chances for seeing real change are negligable.
Not for seeing real personal change, and that’s the only kind you really control anyway. The rest is…more diffuse. Try not to let it get you down.
You’re always so damned right!
I am just in an astonishingly negative mood this morning. It’ll get better.
And of course no movement in this stuff is ever linear or anything close. It’s an all-over-the-place wonky progression to somewhere, and every person added in brings new motion and new problems to ponder. The forces add up until they’re unpredictable, even if a pattern tends to emerge.
As for identity politics — still a totally vital tool for change, mostly on a surface level, but even underneath as well. From within communities based on identity, there can be a great deal of broadening and declarifying boundaries; I’ve watched the local lesbian scene, for example, first chafe at and then embrace, for the most part, a fluid/non-binary gender over the past few years. While lesbian identity remains central to organizing and community building, it also has largely decentralized its meaning to handle a very much fuzzier concept of “woman”. The more individuals within bring their identities into question, the more the question begins to fuck with the borders of the community itself, even as it remains distinct and proud. I see shades of that shift in many places, actually.
Also, as a total aside, I just wanted to note how nifty it is to watch a few of my older friends react to my ever-messy identitites by beginning to rethink and totally fuck with their own.
Personal change, eh, I guess on that level I’m challenging the fuck out of myself — on the level of relationships and their definitions — right now. Incredibly important, satisfying and fun. Also painful and difficult. But I suppose that’s usually how it goes.
You’re always so damned right!
You would not believe how unpopular this makes me.
lol, I’m kidding. I mean, I am wildly unpopular for being opinionated in the way I am, but certainly not because people think I’m right.
Re: community, identity, multiplicity, etc. I’m getting ready to move back east in a few months, and I’m not particularly looking forward to settling into the queer community in Ohio because I fear it’s unlikely to be receptive to the kinds of fluid boundary games I like on lots of levels, but we’ll see if it’s actually like that or if that’s just my bias against “middle America” skewing my expectations. My diaries next year could become very interesting or very drunk and depressing, depending how that goes.
Sorry about the more difficult aspects of your personal challenges of late, but it sounds like we more or less share a perspective that in the end that’s really a “hurts so good” kinda pain. 🙂
Ohio will surprise you.
The joke about Sacramento is that we’re the midwest of California, and it’s really very true. Culturally, Sacramento is far more like the midwest than it is the west coast, with a few small exceptions (like our natural foods co-op, for example).
And that’s kind of a mixed bag, I’ve found. Sure, you don’t run into a whole lot of people who are immediately challenging much of anything. On the other hand, there’s also a sense that the community is relatively small, so we all have to sorta get along or at least be able to deal with each other — and that often brings the boundaries between groups of people into question. And it makes it easier for those who are pushing questions to make an impact on a personal, one-on-one level.
I’ve heard that Columbus has a very similar scene to Sacramento, actually, though less racially diverse (in a broad sense, at any rate). But I haven’t been to Ohio since I was a kid, and I have no idea what other areas might be like — where are you headed, exactly?
And my personal challenges — I wouldn’t change a thing, if I had the chance, except maybe the effects of my personal life on my performance in my lame-ass classes this semester.
I emailed you so as to be respectful and keep our personal chatter off the thread. Sorry for the tangent, diarist!
Too many times we as a human species identify by similar versus different. Too many are afraid of the unknown – and different race, beliefs, or whatever are big unknowns. It breaks my heart every day in this country to see the racism.
I believe that we can change people – 1 at a time. For every 1 we change 3 people will be impacted. Maybe if we each make an effort to change one person as often as possible we’ll make a dent – someday.
Boy, do I have a lot to say on this topic. In fact, I even started drafting a diary about being a white girl in a black town a while back. My daughter’s school is predominately African-American and we both have been learning buckets about “ghetto” culture.
However, I just don’t have the time to pull my thoughts together on rascism right now.
But, I will say this, I think that language plays a big role in rascism in America. Having lived in Oakland CA for a while, I am beginning to understand why the push for treating Ebonics as a separate language had a following here. Even those of us on the left laughed at the idea back then, but I am not laughing at it now. If we increasingly cannot even communicate with one another, all that will do is increase the difference, and thus, the fear.
Language is an extremely important component in my mind regarding racism(and prejudice) as words do make the world go round. To me more specifically it is the language of institutionalized racism that is the real overlooked culprit in so many instances. People who don’t believe they are racist and may not be in the KKK sense yet will perpetrate unthinkingly attitudes through their language…such as the now outdated ‘flesh’ colored bandaids and color in the Crayola boxes..where ‘flesh’ colored automatically meant white. There are still hundreds and more minefield expressions like this which abound in our language to the detriment of all.
I know when I’ve used this as an example to some people they act as if I am being a nitpicker and thus miss the whole gd point.
People, even many on our team, don’t want to talk about racism. They just want it to go away as an issue. That way none of their thinking ever has to get challenged…
One of the most thoughtful and enlightening moments of my life was a conversation with an African-American classmate of mine, who, after I said that I really appreciated being able to talk with her about race issues and her blunt honesty, replied simply:
“Girlfriend, it’s not us you need to be able to talk with about racism, that’s never been a problem, you need to be able to talk to each other about it. For too long racism has been seen as the person of color’s problem, it’s not. It’s white people’s problem — ya’ll need to work it out.”
There aren’t too many black graduate students at UT, she was one of the few that I actually had in my classes, there were only 2 or 3 classes that I had that I could in any way call racially diverse — much to my TERRIBLE chagrin — she was a first generation college student, studying in the COmmunity College Leadership program — I’m sure she has her Ph.D. already, and is dean of a community college somewhere — thanks for reminding me that she’s out there — I need to go look her up and get back in contact.
This is so damn true brinn….minorities already know the score it’s white people(majority of white people) who have their heads in the sand(purposely I think at times)about issues of race in this country and don’t want to even discuss it. Cause if they do they will come face to face with the incredible amount of documented statistics of racism and prejudice that abound…and that doesn’t fit in with their idea that Americans are the ‘bestest’ people in the world.
Talking about racism has many levels. You are absolutely right that many white people do not have any clue about the hidden side of class and race issues and firmly have their heads in the sand.
On the other hand, there is absolutely a need for people of all colors and classes to come together and talk about these issues. When people think of racism, they often think of white people being racist towards African-Americans. This is hardly the only kind of racist attitudes out there. I see more and more African-American youth being brought up to believe that all white people are bad and that using racial slurs against white people is ok. It is not ok. I can understand where they get this, but it does nothing but further the divide.
So, while I do think that we need to talk about our own racism, we also need to bridge the gaps between races. We need to stop focusing on difference and instead focus on similarities.
I think these are important points. “White” people can’t solve racism on their own–it’s like the patient trying to perform his/her own surgery. So it’s only gonna happen with dialogue. The big obstacle is the rampant denial that there is even a problem–and as someone upthread said, if you are born into racist society there’s no way you can AVOID being racist as a member of the dominant “race”. And that is something that “white” people do have to figure out amongst themselves before they can even realize there is a problem. Only then can they learn how they need to change from people of color. ANd yes, that does mean (as I recently quoted Jenkins: shut up and listen (to put it bluntly). When people of color say: Hey, this behavior (whatever that is) is a problem, white people cannot turn around and say “No it isn’t.” But that happens all the time.
I have “white” skin color. I do not have “white” ethnicity, and I’m working on a piece about that, i.e. how ethnicity–(in this case–being Indian), is as much about the “story” you have to tell–that is, the story you’ve lived [and on that score, you really do only have one]–as it is about skin color; this is more of a problem in Indian country than it is in black communities because if you take the “one drop” standard, you usually still do end up being a “visible” minority if you are mixed-race black and something else; not necessarily so with Indians. I know of blond, blue-eyed Indians who are enrolled members of tribes. (How that happened is also part of the history of racism, a part that also needs to be told…)
OK. I am an Indian with white skin privilege, and I live in an almost all black community, my husband is black, most of my friends are black, just about everyone I know is black. At the part district where I work, everyone else is black, from the director (my boss) right down to the janitor. People who know me know that I am only technically “white”–and it shows in my behavior and everything I do. But I do have white skin privilege and so can “pass” as white. In my own community, I am not seen as white–it’s when I leave it that I suddenly “turn white” (with fright!) 😉
My point: I experience the race issue from both sides of the fence, but I still say that without extensive, extensive contact with blacks and with darker skinned Indians (all my life), I would not have a clue as to the depth and severity of the racial issues that still plague us as a society–when you enter a community in which YOU are the “minority”, that’s when you really start to understand the nature of the problem. If the myriad attempts to “transplant” me into white society by placing me in wealthy white foster homes had succeeded, I would not have a clue.
White people need to have more CONTACT with blacks and with Indians–and at this point, I’ll be honest–that’s going to be a lot harder to manage than it was in the past because I know too many, too many people who simply won’t give you the time of day (and no, that’s NOT ‘reverse racism’–it’s based on too many years of attempting to deal with people who are completely unaware of their own internalized racism). I know this because I still sometimes get looked at like ‘the white bitch’ in this community, by people who don’t know me. Doesn’t usually last very long because, after 40 yrs of it, I know how to turn it around pretty immediately.
But the ‘burden of proof’ as it were is now on the white people. You want to deal with your own internalized racism, and the only way to do it is to listen to what people of color have to say about it, then it’s on you to prove that you are sincere in that, that you really do understand it’s a problem and sincerely want to change it. And that’s the white woman in me talking–based on 40 yrs’ experience.
You made some excellent points. I completely agree that we need more contact between people. I am very happy being where I am now and I am even more happy that my daughter is being raised in a very diverse setting. I don’t know how we can make this happen, though. Some of the most egregious racism occurs in places that do have diversity. yet in those places, there is the “black” side of town, the “white” side of town, etc. And, let’s not forget that those sides are usually rich vs. poor as well. Argh. Sometimes, I am despondent that we will never really eradicate racism.
Thanks for your thoughts. It gave me food to think about.
Well, I hope you’ll stick it out where you are–for the sake of the kids.
I’m pretty despondent about the prospects, too–I live on the south side of chicago, and face it: the city is segregated: poor and black on the south, rich and white (or mixed) in the north.
But there are signs of hope here actually, especially as the black neighborhoods are becoming ECONOMICALLY diversified again (which they used to be, when there was a clear segregation along racial lines, at least that’s what my husband and a lot of the old-timers round here say)…. I’m not in the ‘hardcore’ ghetto–basically black working class, few trouble spots in the near vicinity, but not like some of the really poverty-stricken areas. A bit further to the north of me, there are numerous flourishing black middle to upper middle class neighborhoods. So the black folk with more resources are starting to come back from the burbs and that is changing the economics of the whole neighborhood.
Ultimately though it boils down to the kids. Most adults are too set in their ways to change, but by putting your kids in a black or mostly black school, I frankly think you’re doing them the biggest favor you can and you’re doing the best thing you can do to eliminate racism.
I don’t know. I’ve been working with kids in various ethnic communities for about 15 years now and I think they’re going to be the ones to take the lead on this issue.
I absolutely agree. Until my mid 20s I was very uncomfortable being the only white person in a group. I didn’t like that about myself but it took time to get over. Thinking back, until I was in school the only person of color I ever remember encountering was the lady who cleaned our house. I think when I was little I must have thought that white people lived in houses and black people cleaned them.
What got me over being so jumpy around minorities? Being around minorities. First few times I was the only white person on the bus it bothered me. Then I quit noticing. If I ever have kids then one absolute requirement is that I live somewhere where they can get used to this from day one.
I could have moved to a rich white neighborhood, where Cypress would be the token poor white kid, but that is just not me. Her neighborhood elementary was mostly Asian. Now, her middle school is mostly African-American. They refer to themselves as “ghetto” kids, and many are. She gets a lot of shit for being white. In fact, this evening she was really depressed in part because she is hated at school. It is interesting, but they all perceive her as being rich, though we are not by any stretch. The kids have already totally picked up on the white=rich and black=poor b.s. They are only 11. Cypress was baffled by the stereotype since we have many middle-class black families in the neighborhood.
Cypress is adamantly equal rights, so it really hurts her when they call her names. She told me that all the other white girls try to pretend they are black, but they just look stupid. Cypress recently spoke up in class about how we shouldn’t put people down for their culture and got applauded by everyone. But, they still call her names. So, what do I tell her? I can explain that they are just lashing back at what they have been told white people do, but since she doesn’t do that shit, she is still hurt. She understands at some level, but it still hurts. Cypress is adamantly anti-discrimination, be it gay, class, race, religion or anything else. She is also the first the stand up against it. And this is the intrinsic problem with racism…you are judged by your color or accent or religion instead of by who you are. Most humans are too egocentric to see the whole picture.
I just go by my heart and try and overcome the stereotypes and help Cypress learn to respect cultural differences.
The only thing that I could recommend that you say to your daughter is that things will change…eventually. Just let her know, as long as she understands that she is not a part of the problem, (sounds to me like she isn’t 😉 that she can help be tide of change. It takes all of us….not just a few.
sounds like a great kid. Sorry she is having troubles at school, but that is definitely something most all kids have to go through… for some reason.
Anyway tho, the kids she is encountering sound basically like a bunch of rude brats (no shortage of those in middle or high school either, sigh)… I would talk to her as well as you can about them, but I think the most important thing is trying to make sure that in some way, she is around people of various colors who are not. Not rude and obnoxious, I mean. With the knowledge of the one on the one hand, she will have more armor against the others on the other hand.
It’s late, I should have been in bed hours ago, and I’m probably barely coherent but… when I was young (and also as I grew older) I was better able to deal with racism or bigotry when I encountered it, because I had a solid foundation of knowledge of people from all different cultures who were my friends (or my mom’s friends), always in and out of our house or we theirs and so on. I have no clue how my mom did it, in the 60’s when I grew up (in Los Angeles) but I was raised in a completely multicultural atmosphere… within my home circle, which is where it is important. In other words, they were the standard I based all my other interactions on… so when I came across a white racist (or any other color) I was able to separate that out into the actions of that individual, something that was their problem and was unrelated to me, or to anyone else of the same hue.
Of course, when I grew older there were all the other historical issues, but still I think the early upbringing has stood me in good stead.
“Well, I hope you’ll stick it out where you are–for the sake of the kids.”
I forgot to say, I love it here. It is totally different for me and I really like it. I am learning a lot and experiencing new things. So, while I have no problem raising my kid here, it was a move as much for me, as for her. :>)
Sounds like Cypress is an exceptional girl. The fact that she’s already noticing that others “try to be black” as a way of fitting in is a very good sign. Encourage her to “just be herself” (that’s a quote from a kid).
I agree with (who was it Cake?) you should tell her things will get better, but it’s going to take time.
I’d suggest hooking up as much as you can also with the PARENTS of other students, esp the more “middle class” ones. When kids see parents interacting normally, they take that as a cue that it’s OK.
And if there are serious incidents, I wouldn’t hesitate to talk to the parents about it (probably better to go straight to the parents than to the school). The parents will take care of it.
The economic issues are real, and almost impossible to transcend–I don’t know your community or your situation, but it’s a good possibility that, by comparison to a lot of others, you probably are rich. (I remember when I was growing up in the hood, for us social workers, cops, shit, even cab drivers! were “rich”. Anyone who had a damn job was “rich”. So it may not be just the perception that because you are white you are necessarily rich. )
If you can hook up with those members of the community that are on a more equal economic footing, this helps. It just acts as a sort of “buffer” to the already difficult race issues. At least that’s been my experience.
some things out for themselves, just as an example, I followed the recent cyberjihadette on the subject up to the “bad uppity Indian, apologize to the nice white folks and I will permit you to touch the hem of my
robe” post, which reminded me of a comment I made on
another board, to the effect that the subject of race
and ethnicity in the US is probably one white people
should talk about amongst themselves, as it is
unlikely they will be pleased to hear what anyone of
color has to say on the subject, and if they will
continue talking long enough and let the gentle twin
zephyrs of Mendel and Math waft their magic over the
earth, at some point even the most stolid among them
will realize that the subject has quietly and
gradually changed to the extreme precocity and
unwarranted cuteness of their beige grandchildren, and
realizing that their descendants will not be
inheriting their blue eyes and yellow hair, they will
cease their talking and hasten with their grand-tots
to the garden, so that they can instead inherit the
green thumb, which in my view, is a much more valuable
bequest anyway.
If there is a Longest Sentence award on this site, and anyone reading this was hoping to win it, eat my dust.
I identify so much with your post!
As for me…I was born and raised in the south. My Great-grandmother was full blooded Sioux and my Great-grandfather was full blooded Irish. I look more white than anything else…though I can get a killer tan. 😉
I may be the execption to the rule, but my mother raised me to see people as who they were….people. My first experience with racism happened in the fifth grade when I was 10. I was bullied by a group of black girls. (Girls are the most vicious of bullies I am convinced! No matter what color they are….I have to admit on being on both sides of this fence unforunately.) After about a year of this, I finally questioned the girl why she picked on me. All she could say was that I was the teacher’s fav, (I was quite the pet I will admit…you know that girl.) and that the teacher liked me better than her and everyone else because of my “whiteness”. I kind of melded in the shadows so to speak after that and started observing what she was talking about. We sat down and had great talk about how we felt about certain things…about how we felt… (as much as a 10 year old and an 11 year old can…) We became fast friend’s after that…..
And yes I agree with you on the “White Man’s Burden”. More white people should be willing to learn about our past, and try to understand what it was like to be both in both parties shoes. Honestly, that’s what I have tried to do. And almost always I come to the side of the wronged….I don’t know if it has to do with my mixed heritage, or my upbringing.
I am rambling…forgive me.
Glad you brought this up. This was part of one of the posts I deleted earlier today when I was trying to write a post on such a big subject. Basically what I had written was that when I was much younger(in my late teens and early 20’s)I had automatically supposed that all minorities were without prejudice(yeah really naive right)due to the fact that experiencing racism and the destructive quality of prejudice themselves they couldn’t possibly turn around and act this way themselves.
Welcome to the real world huh where I found my naivette seemed pretty dumb. As for the Asian-American idea of being the ‘good’ minority…that’s just one of those completely illogical ideas that seems to take hold and is continually perpetrated and isn’t seen as the insidiously racist idea that it is by people who call them the ‘good’ minority. As if the Asian-American gangs/tongs and their pockets of poverty somehow don’t really exist. Which almost makes it harder to get funding for areas like that because being the ‘good’ minority and doing well then they of course can’t have any problems, right?
I just don’t know why people are so obsessed with trying to put people in gd categories.
Apropos spectrum: At this point in the “development” of the “melting pot” the idea of a spectrum of racial/ethnic identity is probably more useful than black/white/red/yellow dichotomies, and (as the 42 post indicates) racism itself should probably be placed on a continuum (I remember Adrienne Rich! 😉
Still, what this cannot under any circumstances lead to is a denial of white skin privilege.
If you are perceived by others as being “white”, then you are de facto in posession of “white skin privilege.”
What you do with that privilege….well…
Growing up in Miami I was frequently in contexts where I was a racial/ethnic minority even though I’m white. (My mother’s family is half Spanish, actually, but we were not the “right kind of Spanish” in Miami, so I learned to identify as “white” early on.) This caused me to have some really weird experiences coming to terms with cultural racism on a grander scale.
I think you’re right to gesture at experience, though. I think a lot of white people’s resistance to dealing with racism head-on comes from being ignorant, uncomfortable, and afraid of all of the interlocking issues at hand, such as “difference” and “class”.
There’s a great tendency among Americans (and perhaps humans in general, I don’t know) to take the vast array of objects and subjects in the world, categorize them into rigid groups, and then essentialize the groups. By which I mean, people tend to want to make things comprehensible, so they organize the world into groups they can understand, and then they take it all too damn far and start talking about how things and people “naturally” belong to certain groups. Disrupting this thought process, like with the actual science that shows us that race is more sociological than biological, would go a long way toward changing the conversation into a more productive one, I think.
I know.
I had a conversation once who told me something about how her husband wasn’t as good at watching their kids as she was, because men can’t multitask because of blah blah blah biological evolutionary thing and I was like… wha?
It couldn’t be that he just doesn’t pay as much attention as you?
Or is just not used to watching them all day every day?
I have a ton to say about the “natural” differences that actually don’t exist between men and women, but I don’t want to derail the diary again. Conversations about race chronically suffer from having the subject changed (I know you’re not trying to do that), and I want to be conscious to not contribute to that. Suffice to say that I sometimes do feminism diaries around here, and that barring unforseen catastrophes, I will be doing one on exactly this subject in the relative near future.
You’re right about that. Irony of ironies, the very thing I was complaining about myself upthread.
Ooops.
The “race isn’t biological” thing absolutely blows the minds of my fellow students when it comes up in classes — which it has quite a bit recently, actually. Of course, the danger there is also to misunderstand that statement as “race isn’t real”. We made race real, or at least made its effects real, since it’s so operative on a social level, and that’s unfortunately also the easy part for people to miss.
But it’s a great way to get people to understand that the way they’ve been taught to think over their whole lifespans is not necessarily reflective of any natural reality, but that societies create such powerful mythologies, with such huge and important effects, that we come to think of them as natural.
Yeah, imo that’s a hard concept because of the false binary. Everyone tends to think in terms of the either/or of polar opposites, so when they hear “race isn’t scientific” it does all too often get mistranslated exactly as you describe.
Which is really just another example that illustrates the need to make part of changing/opening up the dialogue about exploding the binary. Really, reducing practically anything down to two should be better understood as a fictional method of simplifying a problem rather than an accurate representation of the truth of the thing — which truth is almost always far more complex, and not easily categorized.
See, the whole problem from my pov is that people think they understand things…lol. I make jokes, but that’s not far off from being a reasonable encapsulation of what I really do think. Folks who are too damn certain that they know the “truth” of a thing aren’t ever very far off from picking weapons to try to force that truth off on other folks…
Sometimes you can get close enough to truth. Don’t you think? I mean we all know racism is wrong, right? And worth fighting against?
I take your point about certainty, but at the same time I think this tendency to just live and let live because we can never really know anything for sure, works against us in our quest for social justice.
Honestly, I’m not real sure which tendency you’re talking about, because my primary priority in politics is social equality movements of all kinds. And my primary point in my personal life is to get as close to truth as I can.
Oooh, have we run afoul of the binary so quickly? lol. Perhaps.
Does it help if I say this? My words shouldn’t be taken to mean that we can’t move because we can’t know things for sure, but rather, that we must always move carefully because we can’t know things for sure. Moving carefully will absolutely let us work against racism, but it would not have let us, for example, start importing slaves to America in the first place.
I’m all for moving carefully, just not for backing down from a fight if it’s warranted!
But this is something I have to constantly remind myself, see, because I tend to doubt myself if anyone disagrees with me. No matter how right I thought I was two seconds before. Which is a different issue.
It’s cool, you know how The Internets(tm) are, sometimes it’s hard to get your right meaning across without a little back-and-forth.
But I’m impressed as hell that this thread has gone into 80+ comments and not become a flamewar. Even if it devolves now it’s been a success that we should aim to repeat regularly.
I was just thinking that myself. Maybe a once a week regular thing. I could take responsibility for that. It would fit in well with the personal mission I have assigned myself to keep people talkin about racism as much as I can.
I was thinking about how we kept drifting off topic too. I wonder if it would work to have a rule, that each comment had to include a personal story about racism: something the writer encountered or witnessed, or even participated in, or a time they were accused of racism, or worried someone would think they were racist… anything goes, but each response to the thread has to include a new story (maybe in a blockquote to separate them from the rest of the comment).
What do you think? Worth trying or would an unstructured discussion be better?
I definitely think it would be great to have more conversations about racism, especially in the liberal blogosphere where we have been abjectly failing to live up to our own political ideals about it.
As to structure…my 2 cents is that unnecessary rules often turn a crowd off and probably generate more flames than they extinguish. Folks around here are usually good about being self-correcting, as we were today, especially if we’re reminded politely. The big rule around this blog is instituted by BooMan and it’s Don’t Be A Prick, which is the only net I fly with when I diary but to each his/her own, y’know. Whatever makes you comfortable. I’d certainly come and check your threads out either way.
Also wanted to add my two cents that more conversation on this is always a great idea. There are so many aspects and so many connections that make racism so absolutely central an issue — and so hard an issue to discuss openly, without a flamewar (I agree with IndyLib, this has been an impressive thread in that regard) — that I think we all benefit from hashing through this stuff.
As to structure, yeah, tangents tend to happen all over the place on any topic, but it’s a particular problem with race discussions. Part of that, IMO, is because there are so many connections there to explore, and part of it is because as a society we tend to avoid any conversation on race at all costs, both because we don’t want to owe up to having the problem and because we don’t want to make asses of ourselves unwittingly. I tend to think that a bit of somewhat-off-topic is not a big worry unless the whole thing devolves; for the most part people try to stay on topic (I’m pretty bad at that, I realize 😉 and sometimes I also think those tangents — while they need to not overshadow the central conversation — can bring up really interesting points. Sometimes what seems totally tangential can have aspects to it that cut right to the heart of the thing, that aren’t usually explored.
Just my copper coinage. There are some great points in this thread.
if you decide you want to do this, and I think it’s a good idea, myself, you might have better luck keeping things on track if you pick particular aspects of racism that you want to explore in a given diary. It’s just that it’s such an absolutely huge topic that knowing where to begin or which threads to follow with it is pretty hard unless you narrow it a bit for each diary. The tangents can and will still probably happen, but that way we’d at least all have a focal point from which to start.
Of course then, you run into the problem of finding topics that are neither too broad nor too narrow.
I mean we all know racism is wrong, right? And worth fighting against?
This is true, at least for most reasonable people (and most people, IMO, actually are pretty reasonable).
The problem is that defining what racism is or is not is a huge problem. And unless you address that, you’re going to be forever fighting against the surface level things and never getting to the real heart of the matter.
Very, very few Americans would say it’s okay to say “nigger”. That in no way means that the longterm effects of several hundred years’ worth of severe institutionalized discrimination, both obvious and otherwise, have ceased to have an effect in not only keeping de facto segregation operable and keeping Blacks from the same levels of attainment (as a matter of the numbers, not of some exceptional individuals).
To expand the discussion a bit, too, it gets even harder when you’re looking at, say, the Asian-American community, in which the racism is very much present particularly in the “model minority” stereotype. It’s much, much harder to get people to understand that this is racist and harmful as well.
I guess my point is that yes, most of us agree that fighting racism is necessary — but if you’re not careful on a level to understand the depth in American culture of what you’re fighting, all that happens is that you shove it back under the surface. It is considered unacceptable in this country to be a bigot. On the other hand, right underneath that “we’re not bigots” display is an immense amount of deep-seated cultural baggage that will not be dismantled by a surface-level fight against bigotry.
Dunno if I’m making sense at this point.
You don’t mind if I riff off you again, right? You make it so easy. 🙂 I’m not making this post to you so much as in general to the thread.
And this is why I keep talking about exploding the binary, too. Because there’s no good script for people who are ignorant of the underlying issues — which can be subtle and sometimes innocently not noticed, but are also ignored by whites because they don’t want to give up their privilege.
We’re taught, in this culture, to think in terms of binary opposition. We’re taught to think there are two moral modes: good and bad, and that every available choice thus must fit into those two moral modes. We’re taught that there are two sexes: male and female, and that all bodies must fit into those sexes. We’re essentially taught that there are two races, too: black and white, and that everyone else is either “more toward black” or “more toward white” — you see this in the disparate treatment of blacks and Asians that Spit mentioned, for example, where Asians are perceived by the racist mindset to be “the good minority” or “more white”. You also see it in the phenomenon of black kids who do well in school being told they’re “acting white”. People think in terms of only two, and they think in terms of the two being opposites.
And I think this binary-oppositional way of thinking is close to the root of lots of social problems we have. And that identifying it within ourselves and the social structures we build and maintain, and learning how to think differently, is going to be a big help to thinking our way out of those problems. The theory, generally, is that we can’t use the same kind of thinking to get out of the problems as we used to get in.
Or, if folks like Audre Lorde, to borrow from her metaphor: the master’s tools can’t be used to build anything aside from the master’s house, and if we want a different kind of house, then we need different kinds of tools.
I grew up in Louisiana, and it has seemed to me that there the binary view of race relations was more prevalent than other places I have lived (Washington DC, Ohio, South Dakota, others). There was a lot of tension between blacks and whites at my school. A lot. To my knowledge, few people (other than, I am sure, the outright bigots) really much cared about any other race. That black-white tension was so central that, why would anyone bother fussing about Asians or Jews or Native Americans?
Of course, it could just be that this was the place where I lived when I was young, and you get less binary as you grow up. So I could be just talking out of my rear end here.
The binary thing I’m talking about is pretty culturally pervasive, but yeah, I agree that it’s more or less obvious in different contexts. Sometimes it seems subtle, especially if you don’t know how to look, and usually white parents don’t teach white kids how to look. (I recognize this isn’t always intentional, but that doesn’t make it excusable.)
It wasn’t very obvious to me growing up in Miami because it wasn’t really in capital letters in all the overt signs or anything, and it seemed like the racial tensions in my specific area were usually the blacks and whites against the Cubans, who frequently outnumbered both the blacks and the whites combined. There was only rarely racial tension between blacks and whites at my schools and in my immediate communities, so it took me a while to understand that this tension was so prevalent in other places.
But once I got older, read some theory, and started retroactively picking apart my experience, I could see the binary opposition beliefs holding up the social structure in Miami, too, clear as day. A bit more of a complex analysis to get there, but the same thing nonetheless.
Of course I should have noted that in South Dakota since there are so few blacks, most of the racial tension is between whites and Native Americans.
You say you’ve read theory on this stuff. Do you have any recommendations? I need to work on my holiday reading list. 🙂
Whenever asked, I always recommend that folks start reading race theory with bell hooks. She’s widely acknowledged as one of the best in the biz. You can always branch out from there. (And she keeps her name in lowercase letters for her own political reasons, I’m not disrespecting her or making a typo when I type it like that. She’ll explain it in her work.)
Here’s a link to a brief interview with her to give you a taste of what she’s about.
For more indepth stuff on the false binary, you’ll need to do some preliminary reading because the theory-heads that write that stuff will talk right over your head if you haven’t. But hooks will prepare you for it, she usually writes in a way that doesn’t exclude people who are unfamiliar with all the jargon. So, if you like her work, she will make references to other theorists throughout and you can then go read the ones you like, and then read the ones they reference, etc.
heartily — I love her stuff! Damn, when I finish the diss., I’ll need to go back and read her again….
It is considered unacceptable in this country to be a bigot. On the other hand, right underneath that “we’re not bigots” display is an immense amount of deep-seated cultural baggage that will not be dismantled by a surface-level fight against bigotry.
You are absolutely making sense. This is a really hard thing to fight against, because those silent masses who perpetuate that cultural baggage all too often think, because they are not bigots, that there is no race problem remaining in America.
Side point about the word “nigger.” Maybe people will think me wrong for this, but I have begun to use it from time to time in extreme circumstances. Not to black people but to whites. If someone expresses some underlying racist attitude I might bring it right up to the surface: “So you think all the niggers should just shut up and go back to their ghetto.” That really gets people’s attention. They are so eager to disavow that type of sentiment that maybe, you can jar them and make them think. I wrote a song about Katrina and the final verse goes like this:
I believe that word has so much pent up power in it, most of it negative, that if that power can be put to use to fight racism itself, well not only is that a good thing any way it can happen, but there’s a delicious irony there…
So now I’ll open it up. What do people think, is it morally acceptable to use the word “nigger” in this way?
the correct term to use in the situations you describe is “wigga”
I employ the William de Worde strategy: I try not to be.
I’ve written 3 comments so far and erased them..this is such a huge subject that it’s almost impossible to write anything short and meaningful on it.
You are right that people do need to start talking about racism but not only that but prejudice also. It seems far too many people want to pretend there isn’t any racism any more(Sela Ward on Larry King during Katrina said that she lived in the South and there simply wasn’t any racism anymore-making me want to reach in a slap her face and ask her what planet she lived on?)or people who are becoming more/more open about their racism.
I don’t take any credit for not being racist because for some reason from the time I was very little I just knew it was somehow very very wrong to think people who looked different were somehow less than myself. Considering I grew up in all white neighborhood and never saw anyone who looked different from me until I was about 17 makes that a bit more odd I guess…this was also the time when commercials were all white until the groundbreaking mini-series Roots came to tv in the 70’s.
Much talk or explanations are made that people seem afraid of people who look different and that is something I’ve simply never understood and still don’t understand….I’ve always thought it’s an amazing bonus to have people are not the same as you as you can learn something outside your tiny relm of your own ethnic or racial origins…that’s exciting, not frightening.
Because of my beliefs I’ve ended being called stupid names too many times (as in n-lover)or people not wanting to associate with me-which suited me fine if that was their sicko attitude..or Indian lover also whatever..the amount of racism and prejudice that is out there simmering under the surface or not so under the surface seems to me a growing sickness and problem in the country and I certainly don’t know what to do about it.
I do think that what happened during and after Katrina and continues to happen there and does not get talked about then absolutely nothing is going to get done to address the racism and prejudice that hovers over the whole country. I think it is a national disgrace that people aren’t marching in the streets really to make sure that NO and the Gulf states are rebuilt the right way and that the rebuilding effort should instead be a monument to this country’s diversity and effectiveness in working together to make this a better place…that’s not happening which really does make me sad and angry.
because I went on to something connected but peripheral above.
I also think that this is a discussion that simply cannot be had without a very strong look, culturally, at the link between race and class, and an understanding of both how pervasive it is and the complicated reasons behind it. The problem is that in order to do that, Americans have to be more willing than I’ve seen them be to question the very bases of our mythology; “Personal responsibility” and “upward mobility” and the cult of individualism and all that jazz. As long as Americans see themselves as independent from the culture in which they operate, it’s a very hard conversation to have — it winds up as, “well, those Black people (or insert other group here) just need to get over this bad history shit and pull themselves up. This is, after all, America. Not my problem.”.
I saw a few signs that more people were ready for that conversation, on some level, just after Katrina. But it’s died again. Frankly, if the scale of that tragedy and the lessons it contained didn’t act as a nice catalyst for the beginnings conversation, I’m not sure how to get there on a large scale. But at the same time, I think it got a lot of people (my well-meaning upper-middle-class white retired parents, among them) to really take a look at race and class for a change, and begin the process of at least trying to understand.
Well I agree with you, but what makes this even harder is, one of the excuses people use not to talk about race, is to say no no no, we need to talk about class, about poverty, that’s the “real” issue…
It’s all connected, and I am so sick of people when racism gets pointed out, they will do ANYTHING to change the subject. Including suddenly get all concerned about poor people.
But you’re absolutely right about the individualism thing. Absolutely right.
Absolutely. Any discussion of class also involves race in this country, and vice-versa. The two are not seperable issues specifically because one of the broadest damaging impacts (certainly not the only one) of institutionalized discrimination has been economic on both a broad social scale and a personal one for many individuals. And its an impact that is incredibly longlasting in terms of continued economic potential and access to the things that make mobility possible.
Asking people to consider that should never mean “changing the topic” from race, but you’re absolutely right that there is that danger in the conversation.
Maybe there are separate issues here:
Yes, it does make sense to break it out that way.
My contention is that, yes, poverty was the reason a lot of those people in New Orleans couldn’t evacuate.
But that if it had been a majority white city, then the government and the rest of the country would have actually given a shit. Beyond that first week or two.
That is what I think.
Speaking of Katrina this would have been an amazing chance for the right President to make this whole issue of poverty/race and all the factors surrounding it a continuing dialog with the American people and how to go forward to help overcome the downward spiral that poverty causes-to the detriment of the country as a whole. I’ve mentioned this before but the only white politician who is consistantly and daily talking about race/poverty/minimum wage laws is John Edwards.
I also think that mythology of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps all by yourself is a particularly poisonous and untrue myth..very, very, very few people are able to overcome the drawbacks of poverty/little education etc if someone doesn’t step in to help them along the way. People who think they did it all by themselves had to have help somewhere along the way-whether they choose to admit that or not.
We’re going to get rid of poverty or something. Now go buy another SUV.
Oh yeah, he made his one obligatory speech to show his care and compassion didn’t he and then of course Congress has turned around and are making massive cuts for poor people, low income people to make their life even harder or drive people on the fringes of low income into downright poverty. As for bush as always he’s MIA on Katrina’s aftermath and anything to do with poor people..Kayne West was absolutely right when he said ‘george bush hates black people’. Or maybe worse it’s that bush simply doesn’t even bother to think of Black people as viable members of society or real Americans.(more of that banality of evil that seems to permeate his thinking it seems to me) No matter what lip service he occasionally pays to them..as his little phony tribute to Rosa Parks today.
The Tale of Two Stepsisters.
Once upon a time there were two middle aged stepsisters. One revelled in Whiteness. She had an all white condo, drove a white car, only wore white clothes. A convert to Judaism, she complained bitterly and frequently about Blacks to anyone who was white. She grew up in Texas, steeped in a lily-white family and surrounded by blacks; black doormen, black waiters, black clerks, but no black doctors, ministers or stockbrokers. On the other hand, she loved to teach and spent her devoted career among black students. Day in, day out, year after year she guided and led black students to achieve their best with love and attention.
Now the other stepsister thought she despised racism. She could not bear Texas’s raw us and them divisions and the stark New Orleans-like differences in quality of life. Differences and indifferences seemed to her the height of injustice and the apartheid-like society was appalling. So the other stepsister moved far, far from Texas, to a cold northwestern state with good schools, no crime, no crowds, and no glaring race issues. In fact, there were no blacks there at all!
Do you know which one is racist? I’m not sure I do.
Just a musing. Great diary – I think about this issue every day.
And this story only goes to prove that no issue is all black or white and no pun intended really. Also similar to the story in the movie Crash about the two cops…and who was supposedly racist and who wasn’t?
I dunno, that story looks pretty clearcut to me: they’re both racist, to the core.
You know I was ‘trolling’ for you, Cuz! You bit within half an hour! Get back to work.
I knew it. You little rascal. Did I pass the test? lol 😉
The answer is 42.
I didn’t mean to convey that either one were not racist but the fact that their are seeming degrees of racism in some peoples minds. Racism is racism although their are people like those in the KKK and then kids who grew up being told racism is wrong yet the institutional racism is perpetrated by parents who themselves don’t even seem to realize they are continuing these mythological ideas with no basis in fact. Like my stepmother who said she was violently opposed to racism yet she imparted statements of ‘fact’ that Black people couldn’t swim you know or that you shouldn’t really date someone of ‘color’…not cause she thought anything wrong with this(supposedly)BUT if you had kids then you’d be putting these kids who would be ‘mongrels’ in jeopardy of having no race and vilified by both…so then it was really better not to date someone of ‘color’ cause ‘other’ people would cause too many problems for you and these kids.
Just like another ‘fact’ that is still extremely prevalent to this day here in the oil patch in central CA. and that is the reason there are no Black truck drivers is due to the fact that they don’t genetically know how to drive big rigs….forget the fact that prejudice is still rampant and no one would hire Blacks to drive truck(or work on rigs for that matter)…amazing head in the sand logic going on here by people who will still insist these jaw droppingly stupid, even vilely stupid ideas are in any way racist. How many other ‘facts’ like this are still out and continued to be recycled from one generation to the next.
Very appropriate post, thanks for the opportunity to say something about this. Retired, white, upper middle class is where I am at. Grew up in an “all white” community as a kid. Mom was a displaced Southern Belle, if you know what I mean. Viola Liuzzo was a close friend of my older sister when she was in college at Wayne State University in Detroit.
With that as an introduction, two words come to mind. Guilt and Fear. We feel guilty for the racist history of this country, and fear the repercussions of that history. These emotions get expressed in different ways. Sometimes very aggressive, belligerent behavior, like your guy on the train; sometimes avoidance; (denial is a powerful force, making this the easiest path to take I believe) sometimes an exaggerated attempt to compensate for past transgressions. It is very hard for us to react naturally to even the most basic inter racial social situation, because of guilt and fear.
Then add economic class differences to the equation, and we have the condition that you describe in your article. Very difficult situation to try to resolve, but talking about it is essential if we are to move forward at all.
Really upset re: friend’s “experience” today.
Can you tell us?
diaried it
thanks for asking…I just had to get it out.
Thanks for telling the story, I don’t blame you for being angry and upset.
Well, shit, before I dash out here to go do a gig, and at the risk of hogging the blog, I am going to throw this link out there because I do think, even though it deals with a specific white community (white people who play African drums) and a specific aspect of black culture (African drums), it does address a lot of these issues in a way that many people may not have thought them before–and in a way that might (and in fact has in the past) piss people off.
All I gotta say about the being pissed part is that I’ve never yet had an African American who did not THANK me for writing and for writing it in this way. Please can we not start a fight about it. The paper’s been published three separate times now in three separate legitimate print venues…..
At any rate, I’m throwing it out there, fwiw. Ignore it if need be. Here tis…. duck, cover, run, head for the hills……………………
Thanks so much for that link.
Wonderful article.
It is really hard for us white folk to step down from the heights of assumed superiority. We’re used to it. It feels natural. I agree with the many people up thread who emphasised listening to the experiences of people of colour. Over and over I have heard tales of casual, everyday racism that bring me up short and make me acknowledge the undeserved and unwanted benefits I get for having white skin.
I’m remembering a young black man in L.A. describing how he takes his driver’s license out of his wallet and puts it on the dashboard of his car before starting the motor. He knew he could be shot, stopped for Driving While Black, if he reached into his pocket to produce the license for a police officer.
This is not a burden I carry. As an old white woman, I don’t have to take precautions like that every day of my life. Before hearing his story, I’d never THOUGHT to worry that the cops might shoot me if I put my hand in my pocket during a routine traffic stop. I don’t worry about it now, because I’m not in any danger, but, the point is, I didn’t know that these are sensible, constant precautions black men are forced to think about all the time. On top of the human problems we all cope with, racism piles on worries and pain and disadvantages I can’t even imagine. Is it any wonder that many people of colour have higher blood pressure and shorter life expectancy than I do ?
Racism doesn’t need lynch mobs to kill people. Quiet, ubiquitous, garden variety ignorance and apathy does the job just fine.
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion. Many interesting and valid lines of thought have been posited here; every one deserving of their own individual thread. I wrote this diary from my heart, and I am thrilled you all took it to yours as well.
because the racists feel emboldened and supported by Bush’s Red Regime.
This Thanksgiving my mother was with her family… the table talk turned VERY ugly… not only am I now “dead” to them… but one cousin proudly admitted that the Neo Nazis/Aryan Nation tpy groups are right. OMFG! So now my family supports Bush as well as Hate Groups… But this is what Bush stands for anyways. It’s no real big shock for me. People who support Bush Inc do support
racism
classism
torture
fashism
hate
death
apathy
bloodshed
let’s add hate again
Dangerous times for all. Having lived in a small county of redneck mutherfuckers… I can only say that I get one of two reactions and both are extremes. I either get HATE or HUGS. I cna’t even list the incidents of late, but suffice to say – Bush Supporters are feeling very threatened right now and that shows up with threats and hate.
Stay in numbers, people.
Great diary! Thank you Fat Lady Sings
Thank you for your comments, DJ – I lost a friend of long standing over this self-same subject – there are so many people out there who have fallen back on hate instead of taking responsibility for their own perceived failures. I’m sorry about your family. No matter how you look at it – really discussing this subject is gonna break some eggs.