In my admittedly limited experience talking to Iraqis over the years, I’ve come to believe that most of that country’s citizens didn’t foresee the kind of sectarian bloodshed that followed the invasion of Iraq. It’s true that the type of Iraqis I’ve talked to aren’t representative of your average Iraqi. For one thing, they speak English and are conversant on American politics. Still, the way Iraqi society had evolved prior to the invasion, there was quite a lot of intermarriage between Sunnis and Shiites, and, at least in the urban centers, there was a basic ecumenical spirit that made the country fairly comfortable for Christians. Even ethnic differences were muted compared to what they would become after the war started. I think you can say the same things about Syria.
One of the reasons why the United States should be extremely wary of intervening in this area of the world is that we don’t understand what we’re doing, and if even the Iraqis didn’t understand what would result from deposing Sadddam, how were our foreign policy leaders to know?
Looking back, it’s clear that we screwed up the entire region by knocking down a brutal, if secular, Sunni-dominated dictatorship and allowing a democratic process to elect and empower the Shia. It made sense for us to this in a couple of ways.
First, if the Shia represent the majority in Iraq, then they ought to have the most political representation. That’s our value system.
Second, the old system of Sunni dominance required levels of political repression and terror that we simply weren’t prepared to implement ourselves. This is also our value system.
Back when Ahmed Chalabi ruled our capital, I don’t remember anyone discussing his sectarian affiliation. He didn’t seem particularly religious and he told lawmakers and policy wonks what they wanted to hear. But, once Saddam Hussein’s regime was toppled, Chalabi urged de-Baathification, which was basically a purge of the Sunni elite. Likewise, and for similar reasons, he prevailed on Viceroy Paul Bremer to disband the Sunni-dominated Iraqi army.
The response was insurgency, sectarian and ethnic cleansing, and eventually the spread of the conflict to neighboring Syria.
One way to look at the Syrian civil war is that we created the legitimacy for revolution there.
How, you ask?
Well, if Iraq was a country of predominantly Shiites suffering under the thumb of a Sunni-dominated dictatorship, Syria was a country of predominantly Sunnis suffering under the thumb of an Alawite dictatorship. We don’t need to get into a theological discussion about Alawites; it’s enough to know that they are a Shia offshoot and that the regime is closely aligned with Iran. In other words, in Syria, according to our value system and the principles we followed in Iraq, the Sunnis should have the most political representation.
It was natural that the Sunnis would resist the change in their political fortunes in Iraq, but it was also natural that they’d seek to take control of Syria in compensation for the loss of Iraq. After all, we were the ones who said that a religious majority should not be oppressed by a religious minority.
This is not a perfect or complete way of looking at the conflict in Syria. There are many more layers of complexity that need to be understood if you want to have some idea of what has happened there. You can hurt your brain thinking about the conflicting interests of foreign powers. The Israelis hate Assad but fear his Sunni opponents more. The Turks hate Assad but hate the Kurds, too. The Saudis want Sunni control over Syria but can’t control and fear the troops that are in the field trying to oust the Alawite regime. The Russians want to keep control of their military base and port. The U.S. called for Assad’s resignation a long time ago, but can’t find anyone pro-western to take his place. And Iraq, of course, has just become an extension of the battlefield as the arbitrarily drawn border has morphed into little more than an abstraction on a map.
Yet, all those competing and inconsistent interests aside, one simple way of understanding this conflict is that George W. Bush created it by upsetting the balance of power.
What no one should ever forget is how little Bush understood what he was calling our nation to do. Do you remember the infamous “F*ck Saddam, we’re taking him out” moment?
May 05, 2002
Two months ago, a group of Republican and Democratic Senators went to the White House to meet with Condoleezza Rice, the President’s National Security Adviser. Bush was not scheduled to attend but poked his head in anyway — and soon turned the discussion to Iraq. The President has strong feelings about Saddam Hussein (you might too if the man had tried to assassinate your father, which Saddam attempted to do when former President George Bush visited Kuwait in 1993) and did not try to hide them. He showed little interest in debating what to do about Saddam. Instead, he became notably animated, according to one person in the room, used a vulgar epithet to refer to Saddam and concluded with four words that left no one in doubt about Bush’s intentions: “We’re taking him out.”
As just an aside here, I know that President Clinton was convinced there was a plot to kill Poppy Bush in 1993, but that doesn’t mean that there actually was such a plot. In fact, the whole story is quite unlikely. But that’s a debate for another day.
My point here is that you should not elect people like George W. Bush president of the United States because they aren’t intellectually curious enough or cautious enough to be entrusted with our foreign policy. But Bush would not have found it so easy to lead our foreign policy establishment and our nation into war if Ahmed Chalabi hadn’t been going around Washington DC for years telling everyone how simple it would be to get rid of Saddam.
It’s this kind of disconnect between lazy ambition and the deep knowledge required for prudent and effective action that led me to stridently oppose our intervention in Libya. I didn’t have any use of Moammar Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein and would have loved to see them both brought up on charges at The Hague. But it wasn’t our responsibility to depose them, and it was the height of arrogance to believe that deposing them would make life better or easier for the people of Libya and Iraq.
This is also why I have consistently opposed our intervention in Syria.
Yet, the humanitarian crisis has grown to the point that our European allies are being deluged with refugees. The Sunni warriors have morphed into a truly odious and dangerous group of nihilistic zealots. We can’t stay aloof from these problems, but we need to be ever-mindful of the mistakes we’ve already recently made in the region. Bringing our misguided and inapplicable ideals to the table (some Democracy Agenda) is just more hubris. We should do a lot more listening and restrict ourselves to protecting civilians where we can and facilitating some kind of settlement if we can.
This is actually a somewhat more general phenomenon. If you decapitate an authoritarian regime in a country with no experience of democracy or civic institutions, sectarianism or tribalism very readily becomes the organizing principle for politics. This happens even when the various communities seemed to be getting along well previously. It happened in Yugoslavia, the ultimate solution being devolution after horrific conflict. It happened in many post-colonial African countries — most of them, actually. “Majority rule” makes sense only when people’s principle loyalty is to an abstract concept of nationhood. If they don’t have that, you get oppression of the minority. Fortunately, South Africa has so far managed to hold together, but Zimbabwe did not. I’m afraid that Iraq and Syria are no more and the only hope for the future is a Yugoslavia style break up. But even that will be very difficult to achieve.
Yes, Americans (and possibly Europeans in general) don’t recognize the difference between nations and tribal societies.
Yes, even in Turkey you don’t have a great appreciation for minority rights.
GINI co-efficient for S. Africa is the second worst in the world. Zimbabwe is down at #21. Mugabe was actually one of the better post-colonial leaders, but like many others believed that governance could only be had through him and his and thus, no transition to democracy and limited terms for the leader were established. Nelson Mandela was wise enough to follow George Washington’s precedent. Unfortunately, the ANC had become so powerful (and so easily corrupted before the end of apartheid) that two more or less thoroughly disreputable men have been elected President.
Whenever “overthrow” becomes USG policy towards any dictator/regime government, I try to get a sense of a few things. How much does the regime take for itself and how is the remainder distributed among the population. Will the “crooks in waiting” take less and distribute the balance more equitably or will they do worse. What sectors of the society are repressed and to what extent and what’s the expected change that the potential new “crooks” will deliver. What was it like before the current dictator/regime. Can other nations influence the current regime to do “better” through means other than military actions and sanctions that hurt the poor the most.
Iran and Afghanistan were both doing much better on measures of democratic government and equitable distribution before the USG chose to interfere (1953 and late 1970s). Compared to KSA, Iraq, Libya, and Syria were all doing better before “we” decided that their regimes were intolerable.
I wasn’t commenting on the Gini coefficient in SA and Zimbabwe, but on the relative status of democracy and minority rights. Unfortunately, in spite of black political majority rule in SA, white people still rule the economy. Mugabe expropriated the white farmers, with disastrous results.
GINI measures the life and well-being of most of the people. All you said is that when the minority white people rule the economy (which they do in SA) and leave the balance of power in the hands of corrupt representatives of the majority, it’s worse than when the whites are cut out and all power rests with the corrupt representatives of the majority. How are the results more “disastrous” in Zimbabwe than in SA? For the majority? For the white minority, it’s clear which way is preferable for them.
So, Bush (and the warhawk Democrats) were like a small boy whacking a hornet’s nest with a baseball bat.
I’d concede that Saddam was making enough trouble to get rid of him. But instead of the “Crusade” to turn Iraq into a Western Democracy (forgetting that it took about 1000 years for Europe to turn itself into a Western Democracy), we should have deposed Saddam and set up one of his generals to be the next dictator with a warning not to screw with the USA or their neighbors or the same thing would happen to him.
How do you figure it was enough trouble? He seemed a limited annoyance.
It seemed like every time one turned around he was violating the no fly zone or painting a US warplane with fire control radar. Not an existential threat, but a real PITA. But the way they deposed him made him into an Islamic martyr. Did he really get religion in the end? Or did he go to the gallows with the Koran and praying just to get revenge? We’ll never know.
Bush’s “Crusade” remark remark alone was equivalent to threatening an Israeli premier with a holocaust. ANYTHING he said after that didn’t matter.
How do you know that Saddam Hussein was violating the no fly zone or painting a US warplane with fire control radar? Was it because the news media reported what the US military told them?
Saddam Hussein “went to the gallows with a Koran” for the same reason that “Osama bin Laden was given a traditional muslim funeral at sea”. Notional religious respect as a propaganda tool.
How much of any of that was actually true? In 2000 we would have assumed one thing; these days we assume another. And that is both a failure of foreign policy and a failure of democratic governance.
Yes. At some point we have to accept what is widely reported or we are just creating our own alternate reality. No one challenged those statements at the time, either here or in Europe, except Saddam himself. How do I know that Bush was serving as President? The news media. I have no direct knowledge. How do I know that there is a country called Iraq? I’ve never been there.
Why would we build up Saddam as we hung him? Or are you agreeing that he staged his martyrdom to stir up anti-Americanism for revenge, as I suggested. The deathbed conversion of an avowed atheist and Stalin admirer seems strange, but not impossible.
It is the reports of the execution of Saddam Hussein that “staged his martyrdom”. It is unlikely that Saddam Hussein had much agency in those arrangements, given his situation. Who that was orchestrating the execution had an interest in an Islamic martyr named Saddam Hussein? Where did that story come from, or was it as story of a vainglory attempt to pass himself off as a martyr? I can guess where that might have come from–US propaganda. A hamhanded attempt a diminishing Saddam Hussein’s stature among those who were loyal to him as if they would just disappear. A mythology of “defiant to the end”.
Well, yes, that alternate reality stuff a huge issue. Especially when it has been widely reported for 40-some years that the foreign policy establishment of the the country finds lying preferable to dealing with the truth. Or not doing some of the counter-productive things that are in the Dulles tradition.
We are from a historical point of view at a point of asking of the US military, US Department of State, and the intelligence community, “What weren’t lies?” What exactly in the post-WWII history of the United States overseas were in fact true? And might all the lies be why the world is in such a mess now?
Not appropriate; you paint a picture of wild west with us/ Bush as sheriff who has jurisdiction. just not the case. if anything go to the UN (and I don’t mean by this get the UN to line up behind this reckless decision on the part of a nation thousands of miles distance away
In some 10,000 years or recorded history, it is apparent that whoever has the military power makes the rules. Morality has nothing to do with it.
I’m not saying we had any moral or legal right. I’m saying we had the power and I didn’t object to Saddam’s removal. What right did we have to force the Emperor of Japan to deny his divinity? The right of the conqueror. What right to approve or disapprove of governments in post-war Japan, Italy, and Germany?
Japan attacked us, we declared war etc. big difference, abyss of difference, cosmic singularity of difference
and you’re saying we should do something just because we have the power to do it? you do realize that’s nonesense. same as the guy who shoots up the movie theater. for the first part, how do we define “we”. as a citizen, I do not consider Bush and Cheney’s unilateral decisions to be “we” the people
Unfortunately, they were elected by “We the People”. Also Bill Clinton was very aggressive here too, so the Democratic Party can’t claim to be guiltless.
were they? not from my reading of history. also, unilateral warring not specified by the Constitution among the Prez and 5th branch’s powers; as far as the legal and Constitutional side of lying us into armed conflict, I must consult Constitutional experts on that matter as I am not qualified to observe more than there are issues there
As an (ex pat) member (and imagined leader!) of Iraq’s oppressed majority Shi’ites, it was to be expected that self-interested Chalabi and his regime change message would include the illusion of easy transformation to “democracy” and our welcome as “liberators”. Thus it should have been taken with a ton of salt, if not entirely disbelieved.
Of course, one can talk about aligning the Iraq polity with our “values” (after decades of support for regional dictators/kings), but this was always largely a sales job, since the greatest consumer of oil/oil products/oil “services” doesn’t invade the country with the second largest petroleum reserves because its longtime leader has suddenly been determined to be a Brutal Madman and Dictator(tm), haha. Bush’s War was fundamentally a war to liberate Iraq’s oil from Saddam.
But yes, the region’s Sunnis can legitimately feel that they have been politically and socially screwed in the Bush Era, and this is now playing out in very serious ways across the region, a region characterized politically as one of abusive, illegitimate family businesses, who pass their “presidencies” down to the most brutal son.
One can’t but help observe that when citizen attempts have been made to have even the most feeble “voice” in a Family Business regime, the current CEO rolls out his (purchased) armor and mechanized artillery brigades and prepares to shell an entire village/town/city into rubble, killing masses of innocent civilians. This was long the Assad way and it’s what Qaddafi was on the brink of doing, as I remember (according to international media).
So yes, our intervention is catastrophic, counterproductive and chaos-creating. But one wonders how we are to limit ourselves to “protecting civilians” if that is going to be thrown out there as a decisive consideration—these family businesses exist for the profit of their families and they kill dissenting civilians and anyone else in the line of fire. It’s how the lid has long been kept on. And it’s what Chalabi likely actually envisioned for Iraq after we did his dirty work for him…except with the Sunnis now on the bottom.
In order to understand the region one needs to note the religions and ethnicities of each regime, the various religions and ethnicities of people within the regimes, where the petroleum is and the real and proposed pipelines. The US generally supports the Sunni House of Saud and the little Sunni Gulf states. The US had repeatedly used Salafists and Wahhabis, radical Sunnis, to bring down regimes under the divide and conquer method. Three or four Iraqs are easier to control than one; in between rapes and beheadings ISIS still manages to get that oil to Turkey.
This is how we began with the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in the 1980s. This is why the CIA backed the Chechen rebels and their horrific civil war there.
“Deep Throat” said “Follow the money.” In the Mideast you follow the pipelines.
We’ve been trying to be on both sides of the great Sunni – Shia civil war since 9/11 (all the time while ostracizing the major Shia power, Iran, so as not to alienate our Saudi and Gulf “friends”.) This incoherent policy predictably hasn’t worked at any time and has now basically led to Hell on earth in Iraq and Syria, but we’re still trying to square that circle. It’s way past time for us to just get out of the region and stay out (that means you too, Israel.)
Long before 9/11.
Hannah Allam, McClatchy: Why were no Syrians invited to the peace talks in Vienna?
You modern-day Chalabis waiting for their chance.
Might “backers” have promised before getting sufficiently high-level approval? Might “backers” be working at cross-purposes because of compartmentalization of missions? Might “opposition” leaders be trying to force fait accomplis on “backers”? What we do know is that John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Hillary Clinton were among the backers of some councils of opposition leaders. No telling who the backers of the recipients of US arms were.
The new Chalabis are frustrated.
First, do no harm. (Sometimes incorrectly attributed to the Hippocratic Oath.) It’s a quaint concept, but one a superpower should think about putting into effect.
Some superpowers believe that someone else will make the omelets from the eggs they break.
Correction, Marie. ALL superpowers think that. All the way back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom and through Alexandrian Macedon, certainly Rome (Republic and Empire), All the British royal families, Napoleon, Prussia, the Tsars, you get the picture and that’s only Western Europe.
Doesn’t this please you enough to reconsider:
How I Would Reaffirm Unbreakable Bond With Israel — and Benjamin Netanyahu by Hillary Clinton.
Would be like marking the 20th anniversary of the assassination of MLK, Jr. with J Edgar Hoover henchmen.
I think my main point was lost about the criminal stupidity of announcing a “Crusade” and blithely assuming that one can transform a non-christian non-Western society with no tradition of democracy into a christian western democracy in less than historical time.
I recognize that we have differences over my cold-blooded insensitivity at times. Nature or Nurture? Well, we won’t be answering that overnight either.
I do hate killing animals although I do eat steak. Another logical inconsistency that I recognize.
“Would be like marking the 20th anniversary of the assassination of MLK, Jr. with J Edgar Hoover henchmen.”
Or Ronald Reagan eulogizing JFK.
I don’t think Hillary is responsible for that headline. And i failed to note where in her piece she stated some “unbreakable bond” with Netanyahoo.
Writers often don’t have control of titles. However, her words:
She didn’t have include Netanyahu in the sentence, but she chose to. Also would prefer politicians not speak of “the people” having “unbreakable bonds of friendship and unity.” And we should all know by now that there is no such thing as “unbreakable bonds” with the the USG.
Who can agree that the US perpetuated a heinous war crime the night it bombarded Baghdad and afterwards? Who? From the recognition of that point everything else can be dealt with referencing the people and powers who set the horror in motion. You might say Saddam started it himself when he invaded Kuwait, or Iranians set the train of events leading up to the entry of 10,000 refugees a day from especially Syria when they deposed the King of Kings, or even the US and Britain when the CIA and M16 engineered the end of Mossadeq. So what’s all this fancy reasoning about. The US lied and committed a horrible crime on the night of Shock and Awe. Or is that still a matter worthy of debate? The head of the Arab League at the time warned that the US would ‘open the gates of hell’ if it messed with Iraq. Can anyone deny that that’s not what has happened. May Russia succeed in establishing some kind of order in Syria. You can be sure that Assad’s future includes a Russian promise of safe passage after a transition is established. If the US does not want a political solution, what does it then want? What a twisted little bully it has turned out to be.
Purely anecdotal, but my male colleagues gathered together as “shock and awe” was happening to discuss the awesomeness of US military might and they all took pride in that awesomeness. They weren’t pleased when in passing by their group, I reminded them that those bombs were dropping on innocent people and their homes and workplaces.
The lead up to that, the decision making that went into deciding to go to war certainly needs further investigation, by true, honest public servants, wherever they could be found. Look into the Bush admin’s actions, the CIA and Pentagon. Public hearings, no time limit, but goal of having it done in 18 months and then report made fully available to the public.
Russia is very unlikely to destroy or substantially disable ISIS largely going it alone and from the air. We want to avoid a commitment of actual ground combat troops, but so does Russia. Yet they may be forced to do so if we don’t join Putin’s call for an alliance. And a massive infusion of Russian troops is likely to result in a quagmire, leading to destabilization of the Putin govt, possibly paving the way for a more rightist/ultranationalist leader to take over. Not exactly in our best interests either.
As for Assad, I believe Putin proposed an interim period of several years where he would share power or govern under a new federalized system, then depart. Sounds reasonable to me. And yes, Assad would always have safe haven in Russia.