Kos says that we should not seek the impeachment of the President. I think we should. I think we must.
Before I get started explaining my position, I want to make a couple preliminary points. First, barring unforeseen events or disclosures it is very unlikely that the House of Representatives’ Judiciary Committee will begin an inquiry into articles of impeachment until after the 2006 elections. Aside from the strictly partisan impact of Republican control of the House, there are no clear cut charges to bring. And while I can make a laundry list of reasons to fire the President, I have a harder time pointing to specific laws that have been broken and establishing responsibility for those crimes in the Oval Office.
Secondly, there should be no effort to impeach the President that does not include a simultaneous effort to impeach the Vice-President. In fact, Cheney’s role in the most egregious mistakes and potential crimes of this administration are so central that I would argue Bush could eliminate the need for impeachment by forcing Cheney to resign.
Taking these two preliminaries into account, I will make the case for impeachment below the fold.
Opponents of impeachment throw up some predictable arguments. The most obvious is that we don’t have the votes to succeed in an impeachment process. And, as the impeachment of Bill Clinton showed, it is a fruitless and divisive thing to embroil the country in impeachment proceedings if you have no hope of succeeding. It distracts the administration, which can lead to major policy mistakes, and it could lead to enemies of the United States taking advantage of our distraction to harm our national interests, or even to attack us. I agree that we should not start impeachment hearings unless, and until, we have a reasonable expectation that they will result in the conviction and removal of both the President and the Vice-President. But that leads to a second consideration.
Opponents of impeachment like to argue that the American people and/or the mainstream media, will never support it, and it will cause a backlash. That is probably true today, but it may not be true tomorrow. If the Democrats win one of the houses of Congress back in 2006, we will regain the chairmanships of all the committees in that house and will we have subpoena power. The ability to initiate investigations, obtain sworn testimony, and charge uncooperative witnesses with contempt, should lead very quickly to several rock solid rationales (counts) for impeachment.
If I was not extremely confident of that fact, I would not support an effort to impeach the President and Vice-President. In other words, I believe the evidence exists to make the case for impeachment, that the evidence is readily obtainable, and that the only thing preventing the unveiling of the evidence is the GOP’s control of both houses of Congress (and to some degree, the timidity of the press).
Another argument made against impeachment is that our country is supposed to deal with power changes through elections. The country has been harmed by recent efforts to subvert the results of elections (excessive gerrymandering, the impeachment of Bill Clinton, the Supreme Court’s 2000 anti-Gore fatwa, the Gray Davis recall, Tom DeLay’s off-year redistricting plan). Never mind that almost all of these election subverting actions have been carried out by Republicans, we shouldn’t get into that game. Or so the argument goes. I have two things to say about this argument.
The Bush administration is presenting the American people with a crisis. It is a crisis that is similar, although more serious, to the crisis we faced over the 2000 election. It’s a crisis that our nation is ill-equipped to deal with. The policies and competence of this administration are so detrimental to our long-term national interests that there is no question that we can suffer three more years of their leadership. Yet, there is no way for the Republicans to join us in a vote of no confidence…as might happen in Britain. Impeachment or resignation are our only remedies.
The second thing I have to say is that we are not obligated to respect the primacy of the electoral process in the face of wanton criminality and incompetence. We should have a much higher standard than perjury in a frivilous civil lawsuit, over a matter that is not a crime. But we cannot abandon the threat of impeachment as a deterrent and remedy for serious criminal activity. To fail to impeach the President and Vice-President in the face of evidence that I consider to be readily available (if currently suppressed) would be to make the Executive an extra-legal branch of government.
Kos makes some different points. He first asks whether we want Dick Cheney to be President. The answer is ‘no’ and under no circumstances. Let me reiterate: Dick Cheney must be impeached, convicted and removed from office or he must resign. That is the minimal remedy to our current crisis. In the process of carrying out the investigations that will force Cheney from office, it is likely that reasons to demand Bush’s resignation will arise as well. And if that makes Dennis Hastert the 44th President, so be it. If it ever comes to that, the House can appoint anyone to replace a member, elect him speaker, and elevate him or her to the Presidency. If we ever reach that level of constitutional crisis, we can make anyone we want President. So, the idea that we shouldn’t remove Bush and Cheney because it will result in a Hastert presidency is a strawman argument.
Kos also makes a rawly political calculation, using the scandals surrounding former Connecticut Governor John Rowland as an example. Rowland was forced to resign over his corruption and things looked bad for the CT Republican Party. But his replacement, the Lt. Gov. Jodi Rell, pleased the Connecticut electorate and is now the most popular governor in the country. The logic, then, is that some Republican might replace Bush, do a very good job, and prevent the full deserved backlash the GOP has coming.
My answer: I doubt that Bush will be forced to resign before the 2006 elections, and the weaker he is the more likely it is that the deserved backlash will occur. So, I see no conflict in pursuing impeachment as a meme, and investigations as a need, during 2006. This should be pursued by some of our most partisan backbenchers, by the grassroots and blogs, and by some of the more radical MSM partisan columnists. It should not be part of the leadership’s message. At least, not with the current set of facts.
Kos refers to a Chris Bowers’s essay on the likelihood of a historical realignment (a la 1974, 1980, or 1994). Bower’s analysis is solid. Bowers argues convincingly that one of the historical factors in realignments is an extended period of unpopularity of the President in power. The prospects look good that George W. Bush’s popularity has permanently sagged and that there is little chance of a major resurgence in his poll numbers. Therefore, if he remains in office we can expect the Republican Party to hemorrhage badly in 2006 and 2008. Therefore, we should leave him in power and reap the benefits of his unpopularity. I have to say, that it is tempting to accede to this strategy. It seems like a safe-bet. But I have a huge number of problems with this analysis.
I have already mentioned the crisis Bush’s leadership poses for the country. I have mentioned the necessity of punishing criminality, provided it meets a serious enough threshold. But there is more:
Bowers’s strategy translates into more than not pursuing impeachment. It translates into not pursuing the truth, not pursuing justice, not dealing with a crisis. And it therefore translates into more mealy-mouthed talk, more ignoring incriminating evidence, more attempts to chide this administration into legal and responsible policies. We can’t avoid becoming apologists for this administration if we ignore our core beliefs that they should not remain in power. We can’t pretend to be looking out for the best interests of the nation if we refuse to pursue the one thing that is necessary to stop the bleeding.
Kos concludes:
And as far as legacies go, what would be worst — destroying his own presidency or destroying his entire party? Let’s make sure it’s the latter.
I believe the Republicans will resist being destroyed by this President. We are already seeing the first signs of rebellion. There was a point during Watergate, after the GOP had taken a severe beating in the 1974 elections, that Sens. Barry Goldwater and Hugh Scott and Rep. John Rhodes, went to the White House to tell the President he had virtually no support left, even among members of his own party. I expect something similar to happen in 2007.
I’d argue that (provided the Dems gain a house in the 2006 elections) it is even more likely that Bush will be forced out than it was that Nixon would be. Nixon was seen as competent. Bush is not seen as competent. He will have less good will from Congress, the media, and the public.
It’s tempting to hold out on pursuing impeachment, hoping that Bush’s unpopularity and performance will lead to a major political realignment returning the country to more progressive policies. The problem is that Bush is harming our country so severely that we have a responsibility to stop and reverse his policies. We cannot ignore this responsibility without becoming somewhat complicit, without becoming apologists (to some degree) for our policies, without a failure to pursue the truth and justice…
Therefore, it will inevitably devolve into more confusion among the American people about whether the Democratic Party really stands for anything, and whether they really offer a significant alternative to the GOP.
So, in conclusion, we have no choice but to pursue the impeachment, conviction, and removal from office of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush. A failure to do so would be an abrogation of our duty. And if pursuing their removal presents risks of minimizing expected gains in the 2006 or 2008 elections, it also presents an opportunity for maximizing those gains. Ultimately, it is more important that we repudiate the extremes of the Bush administration than it is whether we gain the maximum possible political advantage from this crisis. Our country needs rescuing now, and history won’t care how many seats we won, but that we threw the government that legalized torture and launched a war of aggression on bogus intelligence out of power.
. . . to say, thank you, BooMan.
Yes, thanks. I think kos’ comments are irresponsible and said so in my post there. What is truly outrageous is putting political considerations ahead of principle. This has been a consistent thorn in the side of democratic party strategy. We must advocate for doing what is right because it is the right thing to do, and get ourselves away from acting on the basis of political calculation. Then, and only then, will we be able to regain the respect of the American people.
exactly
the idea that we wouldnt push for impeachment because it would give the repubs a chance to make thigns right and come out smelling better than a pot of shit is so laughable to me.
we should worry more that the dems would actually be successful at this, get control of congress and the white house, and screw it up themselves.
booman you make so much more sense than kos and bowers.
what is up with dems anyway? annoint and clear the field for moderate anti choice candidates, back off impeachment because they are afraid the repubs will pull a 600 lb rabbit out of the hat…what special powers do they think the repubs have anyway? this reeks of fear….fear of losing….what kind of warrior is so afraid of fear they dont want to fight? the dem leaders show everyone just how emasculated they are by not standing up for what we are supposed to believe in.
Yeah, what is up with this ‘Abandon and alienate more and more of our base so we can win’ crap? And now, to follow it up with the ‘Let Bushco completely destroy the country before anything is done to stop him, so everybody knows how good the Dems are’ strategy. Hello, we are already in a deep hole in this country that will take years, if not decades, to dig out from. Kos’ plan suggests that we should go the way of post cold-war Russia and suffer a total economic collapse first, and be happy about it.
Pravda, anyone?
Cabin the Elder read this too, and thinks BooMan is right on, and Kos’ ego is out of control. His words, not mine.
Absolutely.
I couldn’t resist dropping a comment in that Kos diary:
Thanks for posting this Boo. I swear that I wanted to pick up my keyboard and start beating Kos over the head when I read that diary. Sterling Newbury had a decent response to Kos as well up on the recommended list there.
Kos just doesn’t seem to “get” a lot of things.
.
When you submitted your diary BooMan, an excellent timed moment.
Unfortunate the BooMan heart beat – server clock? – runs four minutes ahead of universal time!
«« click pic for photo 5 to 12 … hmmm
In this manner, the U.S. is only seconds away from disaster …
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY
The Case for Impeachment, Booman.
I am intending to send this diary’s URL to my master email list. Hopefully your logic will ring as true to them as it did for me.
First of all, I can’t believe we’re all up at this time …
I certainly agree with the following:
And this is the reason that I don’t see establishment Democrats pursuing impeachment. I’m always surprised when I see posters listing attributes of the Democratic Party such as “anti-business” or “for the people”. I am not convinced that they offer a significant difference.
Let’s say the Dems get the House in ’06. Even under these favorable circumstances, I will predict that they do not push for impeachment.
I agree that there is a dire need now to stop and reverse the damage being done. I just don’t see the Democrats as the driving force — it will have to come from elsewhere.
As far as kos is concerned, my impression has been that he pushes the party line, which is consistent with my prediction above.
The US cannot afford (the world cannot afford) the current debt pile-up.
An unrestricted Bush/Congress would continue – maybe accelerate – the taking on of debt – for another 3 years!
The impeachment process would basically freeze all Bushco adventures and reduce the executive and congress to basic bookkeeping of the status quo (bad enough, I agree).
From just this economic standpoint, impeachment is strategically vital.
There was a time when the rest of the world believed that, however crass the US was, it was a money-making machine from which everyone benefited. The paradigm shift in how the US is viewed abroad means that the US is now seen as not only a money-losing machine, but also as an environmental rapist, a fundamentalist terrorist, a spoilt bully, a paradise of nepotism, and anything else you may wish to add.
The US has lost all respect. Impeachment is the only way to begin the process of regaining at least some trust in the world.
This hits the nail on the head — it’s about complicity
Thanks
.
are dropping faster than you can utter horseshit.
Kos discussion already picked up earlier on open thread …
Every prince has his followers, in France history the courtisans at Versailles led to their Abu Ghraib – Bastille – and to the French revolution led by the populace of the inner city suburbs.
I forgot the intent of the comment I’m writing, much the same as the purpose of Kos’ diary is completely beyond my comprehension.
Vive Le Roi! Le Roi est Mort.
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Chris Bowers’ post about this on MYDD echoed my sentiments exactly. I had come to the same conclusions.
Let’s find out the truth about all their dirty linen: Abu Ghraib, 9/11, the torture memos, Plamegate, election fraud, “dark prisons,” Cheney’s secret energy commission, and all the lies that led up to the war. Get all of it out. It will take a long to turn over all the stones. A rush to impeachment will impede the search for the truth. I would rather have America know the final truth about what scumbags we have in office than have the simple gut-pleasure that would come from seeing Bush leave in disgrace.
He will leave in disgrace anyway, once the truth comes out. Get that bastard under oath, without Cheney holding his hand, in front of a Senate committee, explaining why he didn’t read the August PDB in 2001. Let him stammer and make clumsy lies to a professional Senate counsel and be dissected. THAT would be so much more satisfying.
Impeach him, and what do you get? You get the Republican Wurlitzer in high gear, attacking the impeachers rather than defending the excesses of the past six years. I don’t want that. I want people to see the truth, not to pick sides. Because the truth is so much more deadly.
Don’t contaminate it by letting it turn into a political game. I know, that’s not your intention, but that would be the practical result. Investigations are the name of the game.
Our goals should be the following:
Chris Bowers and Kos striked up the band for caving in on the filibuster… it was suppose to be a “Genuius Strategerie” …just like voting for anti-abortion Democrats will protect abortion… to say that their credibility is lacking is a misunderestimation… they analyse what Simon Rosenberg tells them to…
Sorry pal. When you’ve got a cancer growing on your body you’ll need to cut it off as soon as possible. Then you start the rehabilitation process.
Be sure about it. Wether the truth about these last five years comes out before Bush leaves (preferrably is thrown out of) office or not, for the US to reenter into the civilized world you have to have a period of self-flaggelation and atone for the misery the US has brought under Bush.
In fact, for your reentry to ever be successful you have to deliver Bush & Co before the ICC.
He’s not calling for immediate impeachment, but he is calling for investigations. And if those investigations bring about impeachable offenses, then we MUST take action.
And Boo said that any action against Bush must be accompanied by action against Cheney, so if we play our cards right, we won’t have to worry about him taking over the Presidency. I’d like to see some intensive investigation into the “no-bid” contracts given to Halliburton and its subsidiaries; just as Spiro Agnew was forced out on tax problems, I think there are enough behind the scenes shenanigans that Cheney may end up resigning with “health problems”.
If the Democrats investigate, find impeachable offenses (there’s got to be something about lying us into a war that qualifies), and yet they do not impeach, that will just enbolden the neo-cons and Religious Reich; they will have free rein to do whatever the hell they want, knowing that their opposition is too chickenshit to do anything about it.
The ultimate aim of the Repubs impeaching Clinton had nothing to do with sexual antics — it had everything to do with emasculating him so he couldn’t put forward an agenda. That’s what we need to do to the neo-cons and Religious Reich — emasculate them so they cannot continue to rape our country.
Yes, I read Boo’s post.
It’s in the math. There is no time to impeach Bush without leaving him with only months left.
Beginning the investigations with a clear and outspoken goal of finding reason to impeach will contaminate the investigations. The investigations themselves are the goal, not impeachment. They need to have maximum credibility so that when it is exposed that Cheney sold the country to Halliburton, the Mighty Wurlitzer isn’t out there telling us how the Dems just hate Cheney and will twist anything. Why give them that edge? For what? The emotional gratification of a pointless impeachment?
It is more important to expose them than to judge them. It’s more than just Bush. It’s the whole cast of characters including the corrupt corporations and networks that have profited from this administration. Expose the process, the hypocrisy, the manipulation. Don’t make it about individual personalities. It’s a much better way of setting the record straight AND of punishing the bastards.
We can always indict Bush after he leaves office. It would be a lot more fun. Personally, I would rather see Halliburton disincorporated. What would you rather destroy: Howdy-Doody or Darth Vader’s Battlestar?
The basis of Kos’s arguement is that Democrats can not chew gum and walk at the same time… then he throws in a 100% verifiable lie that impeachment is the same as removal…whereby employing the Democrats favorite straterie “If you don’t bend over now… the Boogeyman will come and get you”
Kos has sold what was left of his soul to the Republican backed NDN foe a few bags of Blogads… this a Master Plan sounds like it was whispered by Simon Rosenberg into the sycophantic ears of Chris Bowers and Kos… not a capable brain cell amongst the two.
Sterling Newberry writes the most coherent arguement to date: Impeachment in Seven Reasons
Now that is a fucking Frame… if ever there was one… imagine that… Democrats creating frames to save the GOP’a ass … go figure.
Excellant commentary and rebuttal, Boo!
The Kos/Bowers strategy is more than “mealy-mouthed” talk. It cynically places what might be good for the Democratic party over what is good for our country! They are basically saying let’s destroy the country some more so we can rule the remains.
Shut up about destroying the Republican party forever! Have we learned nothing from the last five years? We need at least two parties, and I would like to see more, in order to prevent the corruption that comes from one-party dominance. Has everyone forgotten how Democratic reps’ personal pork-barrel enrichment and vanity brought about the Contract with America?
Politics should not be a game of “Battle” with the winner taking all; it should be about compromising different approaches into solutions that recognize the the greatest benefits to the greatest numbers.
Over the last year, Kos has revealed his juvenile core. He’s a punk and a gangster. Boiled down to its meat, he’s saying: Hey, let’s let doze guys ransack the neighborhood some more so the peeps will beg us to take over then we gets to run the racket.
If that’s the semi-official position of the Democratic party then a pox on both parties! And may a third be born from the Power of the People!
Allowing Bush/Cheney to run their full course without any attempt at intervention strikes me as lunacy. Why should we stay in this abusive relationship if we don’t have to? Why shouldn’t we try to sever the electoral bonds?
This administration has cut taxes and spent hundreds of billions. They have borrowed record amounts of money from foreign governments. They have done more to undermine the Constitution than any other administration in our nation’s history, I dare say. And they have sullied our good name (what good there was) all around the world.
I’ve been a proponent of impeachment for a couple of years now. To argue that Bush will have “lame duck” status for the next three years underestimates the stupidity and hubris of the assclowns running the show in Washington D.C.
They have lied, cheated, and stolen for five years without remorse; given the chance, they will continue to do so until at least January 2009.
You can’t just sit back and do nothing and call yourself a patriot. You just can’t.
Abusive relationship…it’s like a person in an abusive relationship being advised to stick it out for the good of the children, or because their family will hate them if they leave, or because God insists they stay.
We’ve been in this relationship for 5 years now…and 2000+ Americans are dead because of it. When will we stand up and say that “enough is enough”?
The neo-cons counted on the timidity of the Democrats and the complicity of the press to get exactly what they wanted. We’re starting to see the press wake up and regain at least a bit of dignity (hell, I almost feel sorry for Scotty McClellan sometimes!), now it’s time for the Democrats to stand up and take a risk. And if the Republicans pull out the old standard “guns, gays and God” card, someone needs to stand up and say, “What’s more important, two guys in a bedroom or thousands dying in a war based on lies?”
Aside from the strictly partisan impact of Republican control of the House, there are no clear cut charges to bring.
J’accuse? I agree that any investigation(s) should go forward, and if culpable, those involved should be charged. But that task is better left to a Special Prosecutor and Grand Jury than to partisans of any stripe.
Fitzgerald was slapped around by both sides in the press at various times during his investigation, and by the media itself when Miller got thrown in the can. By all accounts – finally proven at his press conference – he is an absolutely non-partisan prosecutor doing his job.
Just the facts. “Republican” does not mean “enemy”.
i dont understand….who is republican?
fitz is an independent
I think some folk tend to use “republican” when they really mean “the administration”.
I agree with so much that has been written in the diary and comments, so I’ll try not to be repetitive.
I have two additional comments, one on principle and one practical.
On principle, I say we need to remember the words of Martin Luther King, Jr. “Cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ But conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’ And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.”
For the practical – I believe the Cheney neocons have not backed down one inch. I think they are currently planning regime change in Syria. Whether or not you agree with this, we all know that, given their track record, they will make a mess of it. How many more of these disasters are we going to let happen before we try to stop them for good?
As you said, there’s so much good in this diary and the comments, and I don’t want to repeat it either. But I do want to draw attention to your last point. THESE PEOPLE DON’T GIVE UP. They have waited too long to get in power to give up. As long as there are private rooms in which they can plot together, they will. As long as there are ways to bulldoze their way past opposition or lie their way past it, they will. They will not go down until the last velociraptor falls.
What you said. . .”How many more of these disasters are we going to let happen before we try to stop them for good?”. . .could be a tag line.
This may not be the place to state this, this am; however, on TMP I hear statements who lead me to believe the republican party is very much in trouble. The ways they lie are cetainly becoming very irritated with the same old statements… that they are going down in the polls and all the like. If I were them, I would find a ndw line to put forth to the public. It is certain that the old lines are just not getting it….;o)
Do you all get the feeling that they are running scared? I just have to laugh at how they are trying to defend themselves.
This says it all. Bravo.
Perfectly put, except for the last phrase.
BUT…that last phrase is the kicker.
The press…the media…is NOT “timid”.
It is complicit.
It is owned and operated by people whose interests are solely financial and relatively short term, and media’s recent reversal of course on BushCo merely means that most of the people that OWN the media no longer believe that what has been done by this administration is good for business.
It really is that simple.
Had the Blood For Oil War gone as envisioned by its designers, had that giant, violent boondoggle actually paid off the way Cheney sold it to the oil reps at the pre-war “secret conference”, neo-con spinners like Judith Miller would still be in the catbird seat at the good, grey Times; Patrick Fitzgerald would have been THOROUGHLY blocked in his investigation, and Bush’s poll numbers would be big positive instead of big negative.
But that war has NOT been the “slam dunk” that CIA chief George Tenet so stupidly predicted. (Stupidly if he wasn’t himself playing a long-term game, of course.).
Not a Desert Storm II but rather more like a Vietnam II.
Only worse.
Worse for business, anyway.
Go ahead, Booman.
Impeach these shits if you possibly can.
The longer these people stay anywhere near the vicinity of the REAL nuclear option button…YOU know, the one marked “ARMAGEDDON” in purple magic marker next to Butch’s desk in the Awful Office???…the more likely it is that they will fuck up in ways that would make their previous fuckups look like child’s play.
But remember…it is not you that is calling the play here. BushCo has already failed in its job to make money for Big Business and has been given its walking papers.
Its vote of no confidence.
Now it’s just a matter of the bosses choosing a NEW management team and meanwhile managing the search and transition process.
All YOU…we…can do is make suggestions about who to hire and how to make the transition.
I doubt that they will impeach him.
Standard business practice seems to be to cut the legs out from under a very high level failed exec and then leave him in place until all of the ducks have been securely placed in their proper rows and the fuss dies down somewhat.
Then comes the golden parachute and quiet retirement or a swift kick upstairs to a place of no power.
Like “Honored Ex-President”.
Fuss is bad for business, too.
We shall see…
AG.
P.S. And yes, Kos is DEAD wrong.
But we should be getting used to that by now.
Cross-posted at DKos.
One issue needs to be raised in light of the points you’re making here. Having just gone through the impeachment process (and experiencing just how divisive that can become), would the country reward the Democrats for leading us down that road again?
Admittedly, this particular case is much more constitutionally valid than lying about sex. But the problem is that it could be seen as so much tit-for-tat. I just have a feeling that Bush’s low numbers reflect more disappointment than anger. After all, a lot of the people being polled voted for him (twice!).
Having said that, I sense that in order to make a case for impeachment (which I do support, by the way), the blog media must make clear their case to a more mainstream public. That is, the belief that we have that Bush lied to get the war has to be made crystal clear (and not just at sites such as this one). It has to be made in local papers. The story has to be so irrefutable that newspapers in markets like Easton, Pennsylvania, and Pocatello, Idaho, are discussing the merits. It can’t be ‘in the wind.’ It requires that what Richard Clarke reports in his book, and Sy Hersch, and all those other titles that Amazon has available–all that information has to be more than merely the intricacies of our arguments. It has to become part of the everyone’s conversation.
that is beginning to happen. The latest comments of Brent Scowcroft and Larry Wilkerson represent an open assault on the legitimacy of the Vice-President. Add to this the two year war being waged by intelligence and ex-intelligence officers, add to it Fitzgeralds’s aggressive investigation, add to it the sudden turning of the press to ask formerly taboo questions. The worm has not quite turned, but it is turning. And when it has turned, we better be there at the head of the barricades, ready to lead the counterattack.
and at that point impeachment is going to have to happen in order for our nation to feel fully enabled and empowered to return to the standards that have served us well in the past and kept abuse at bay.
It was fascinating to watch the press reports come out in the first weeks of October. One revelation after another of ‘newly’ discovered issues that had to have been grand jury subjects over a year ago. The MSM is good at this when presenting an issue they have actively ignored. There’s no way that all of those developments were new in that time frame. It’s indicative of the MSM deciding which side they are throwing their weight behind. Sadly, they behave as though they have to have a side. If none is present, they split the interests to create sides.
Fitzgerald chooses his words very carefully. When he drew attention to the Libby indictment specifically not addressing the basis for war he distinguished that from other possible indictments or investigations.
He also has made comments in some of the other government corruption investigations. The theme is constant that the people who are represented have the right to expect truth and integrity from their elected officials. The law requires it and the Justice Dept is tasked with applying those laws to ensure the people receive the honest leadership they deserve. It’s the basis of how our system works if it’s to be successful.
Any impeachment procedure decisions should follow this ethic regardless of the political consequences in the timing as long as the decisions preclude political priority. It will splatter on some of the Democrats too but that’s just part of correcting the fundamental flaws that have developed and need correction.
From the Sunday Herald
Blair faces new inquiry into Iraq war
This push in Britain can give an “Impeach Bush” campaign here in the US a boost. If we do not push here, we look like patsies to the rest of the world.
Amen.
One thing I’d add is that there are several differences between the CT case and the national one.
If the ‘I’ word is to be raised by politicians, it should be done by Reps from very safe deep blue seats who are not part of the leadership. That way the rest of the Dems can say that they don’t have any interest in impeachment but that they do believe that there are very serious issues that Congress needs to investigate. As you point out, there is no hard, legally sufficient case for impeachment right now – that’s what the investigations in 2007 would hopefully reveal. And finally, any impeachment should be based on major crimes related to the President’s role as President. Not even a Libby style coverup of a crime, and certainly not some completely extraneous personal stuff that might get turned up like in the Clinton case.
I posted this yesterday on another diary (not the one by Kos) regarding impeachment:
If Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are even half the smart operators we’ve been giving them credit for being, this process is already underway. But it does take time. The American electorate, no less than its elected officials, is a great, slumbering beast, and rousing it is a matter of some effort.
I think your points are well taken, BooMan, and agree most heartily that this is a time when we must do what is right, not what is expedient. Here in Left Blogistan, where life is measured in nanoseconds, we expect things to happen at DSL warp speed. But the rest of the world is still on dial-up, at about 14k.
As for Kos, I think he’s created a wonderful site where you can learn all manner of good things, and people can contribute to one another, but in politics he’s very young. A few more years of seasoning and I might take his pronouncements a bit more seriously.
I support impeachment as a means towards realignment. I’ve piped up already with comments at MyDD, Dkos and My Left Wing.
The worst thing about the way Markos puts it is framing it as an either/or choice. And Stirling Newberry has written a fine response to that.
But, although Markos quotes Chris Bowers, it’s just not true that Bowers argues against impeachment. He may make that argument in the future, but he hasn’t made it in the story Markos posts to–“End Game on Bush’s Approval: Realignment”–as I pointed out several times in the comments there.
What he does do is make the point that realignment is the big prize, and that everything else is small potatoes in comparison. And I think this is unquestionably true. The argument for impeachment needs to be made in the context of the realignment battle.
And Booman is absolutely right to clarify the sequence, because without this, we aren’t arguing realistically and strategically at all. We’re just tossing rhetorical bombs back and forth, and doing the GOP’s job of divide-and-conquer for them.
So, please, let’s treat this with the seriousness it deserves. Let’s seek out the strongest arguments on both sides, and respect the points both sides make–such as the one Chris made that started this whole current round of discussion. Because whatever strategy we come to as a result will be all the stronger and wiser if we do so.
Yes. Impeach them both. It’s the morally and politically right thing to do, and absolutely in the best interest of all Americans, not to mention the rest of the world. They have redefined the meaning of “long national nightmare” and the sooner they are ousted the better.
But first we have to win back control of the House of Representatives, and that should be the number one focus. Momentum and Truth are on our side, but we have to be smart and determined and take this one step a time.
I am very interested in this
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